- 7 weeks ago
Bryant Terry is a James Beard Award-winning chef and author, renowned for his efforts to create an equitable food system.
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00:00:00Hey, good afternoon beautiful people. This is Portia at Penguin Random House and I'm thrilled
00:00:18to join you with yet another incredible author lined up for Afropunk's Rock and Read. Thank you
00:00:25Afropunk for letting us join you for another year. We wish we were in person. But today we are here
00:00:31with James Beard award-winning chef, food activist, music lover, Bryant Terry. Bryant, thank you for
00:00:39being here with us. Thank you for having me, Portia. I'm so excited to be in conversation with
00:00:44you and gratitude to Afropunk. Been affiliated with Afropunk for I guess since 2014 was the first
00:00:54formal event we did in Brooklyn where Greenlight Books had a tent at the festival so I got a chance
00:01:00to come out, sign books, meet folks, and obviously listen to some badass bands and performances. So
00:01:07that was, yeah, thank you Afropunk. Thank you Afropunk. Bryant, I want to give you as much time as
00:01:14possible but I also need to give you some props and let folks know exactly who you are and what
00:01:21you're doing here. You, again, James Beard award winner. You are renowned for your activism to create
00:01:29a healthy, just, and sustainable food system. You are a chef in residence at the Museum of the African
00:01:35Diaspora in San Francisco where you create public programming, and I like this, at the intersection of
00:01:43food, farming, health, activism, art, culture, and the African diaspora. Your books include Vegan Soul Kitchen,
00:01:53number one, your first baby, The Inspired Vegan, Grub, Afro Vegan, and the latest bestseller, Vegetable
00:02:00Kingdom. So thank you again, Bryant, for being here with us. But don't forget, so I think a lot of times,
00:02:08people often forget that this is actually my first book, Grub Ideas. Oh, that came first.
00:02:14Yeah, so this was when I co-authored this with my friend and colleague and mentor, Anna LaPay. So
00:02:22I don't want to, this is my first baby right here, so I got to make sure. Okay, sorry. Thank you for
00:02:27correcting the record. That's not good. Can you introduce us to Vegetable Kingdom? Yeah, Vegetable
00:02:36Kingdom is my latest book, which was published February of this year. Unfortunately, COVID-19 came
00:02:44and my book tour was abruptly ended, and I did get an opportunity to do some events. I went to
00:02:51Seattle and got a chance to hang out with my buddy Eduardo Jordan, and we did an event
00:02:56dinner at his restaurant. I got a chance to go to New Haven and do some events at Yale and some other
00:03:04places. But, you know, I'm just, I have to say, I was talking to my friend, W. Kamal Bell, the comedian,
00:03:14and I was saying, you know, I'm really glad that over the past several months, people started liking
00:03:18Black people again because this book has been, we can't keep it on the shelf. I mean, it just got back
00:03:25on amazon.com because it had been sold out for several weeks. And I'm just glad that in this
00:03:31moment we're able to use, you know, these virtual technologies to continue to promote because this is
00:03:38an important book. And, you know, I think the biggest thing that was frustrating for me is I spent
00:03:42two years working on this project, all this, you know, anticipation and excitement building up to
00:03:49the tour. So there was a period of sadness, but I'm glad that we were able to figure out how to
00:03:54continue to promote it even in this, you know, historical moment. Boy, this historical moment.
00:04:03Can you take us inside the book and read a bit from it? I would love to.
00:04:09I would love to. So I'm going to read you an excerpt from the introduction.
00:04:18And it's, the title of the introduction is Fennel for Zinzi. And Zinzi is my oldest,
00:04:25my youngest daughter, Zinzi Lei, named after Miriam McCabe, the South African singer.
00:04:32Vegetable Kingdom is inspired by my daughters, Mila and Zinzi. They have blessed this book like my
00:04:38ancestors' blessed meals by humbling me to that which is greater than myself. When Mila pulls the
00:04:44gloriously resonant hum out of her cello and when Zinzi dances and energetic spins and wild flourishes,
00:04:50they're turning the love and effort I pour into them into a vitality and power that they will carry
00:04:56on far beyond what I could ever know. I wrote this book to make a diversity of foods of the plant
00:05:01kingdom irresistible to them, to inspire their curiosity and to show them the pleasure of a
00:05:07lifelong adventure with good, nourishing food. That mission drives this book. Vegetable Kingdom
00:05:14reflects the essence of how my wife Jadon and I root and raise our children. Mila and Zinzi have been
00:05:19rooted in the garden with farm fresh ingredients and raised on the diversity of dishes springing from
00:05:24the deep well of Black and Asian food ways. We help shape their multi-Kofa identity organically by
00:05:32creating and consuming Afro-Asian food and the spectrum of flavors they engage often in the same
00:05:39meal. While I emphasize ingredients, cooking techniques, and classic dishes of the African
00:05:44diaspora, Jadon does the same with Asian food, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese. So this book features a
00:05:50number of ingredients and flavors from East and Southeast Asia, Sub-Saharan Africa, the Caribbean,
00:05:55and the American South. With such an emphasis, well, no, with such an expanse of cultural ground to cover,
00:06:02it is serendipitous that it was the Mediterranean, a region at the crossroads of Africa, Asia, and Europe,
00:06:08and one of its heartiest vegetables, fennel, that acted as a catalyst for unifying the dynamic spirit
00:06:14and energy that permeates this book. A few years ago, I was at the farmer's market checking out the
00:06:20late summer, early fall bounty, flavorful seascape strawberries, fresh cranberry shelling beans,
00:06:26vibrant red burgundy okra, and plump pomegranates, to name a few. I'm looking at your facial expressions.
00:06:33Because I've never heard of some of these things. Sorry, keep going.
00:06:37That morning, fennel was all over the place. The bulbs glowed bright white, the stalks and fronds were
00:06:43moist and fresh, and their anise-like aroma was strong. One stand offered samples of crunchy sweet
00:06:50slices with fresh lemon squeezed over them. I had never really bought fennel unless a recipe required
00:06:56it, but that day, the fennel was calling me. Your boy bought four bunches on the strength of that
00:07:03smorgasbord for the senses. Driving home, I decided I would use every part of the fennel. I envisioned the
00:07:09feathery fronds as a garnish, flashing back to Instagram posts by some of my favorite chefs,
00:07:14like Chef JJ, Rob McDaniel, and Jeremy Fox. Creatively balancing color and making dishes pop by
00:07:20arranging fresh herbs, microgreens, and citrus zest on top of them. I figured I would put the fennel
00:07:25stems into the freezer along with the other vegetable scraps reserved for stocks. I had no idea how I would
00:07:31cook the bulb that day, even though it is the only part I really used in the past. I'm almost done.
00:07:35Regardless of how I prepared the fennel, I was a little nervous that Zinzi, my five-year-old,
00:07:42would not be into it. Mila, my eight-year-old, has always had an adventurous palate. She loves
00:07:47to try different cuisines and takes pride in eating unfamiliar dishes. Zinzi, on the other hand,
00:07:52would be happy if she had pasta, bread, and crackers at every meal. My other goal was to create
00:07:58a dish through the lens of the African diaspora. Inspired by visual artists Romare Bearden, Jean-Michel
00:08:04Basquiat, Deborah Roberts, and Derek Adams, as well as some of my favorite hip-hop producers like
00:08:09Prince Paul, The Bomb Squad, DJ Premier, RZA, Organized Noise, and Mad Lib. I have approached
00:08:16recipe development as a collagist, curating, cutting, pasting, and remixing staple ingredients,
00:08:21cooking techniques, and traditional Black dishes popular throughout the world to make my own signature
00:08:27recipes. I'll leave it at that. It's brilliant. It's brilliant. So, first time I've seen, and I've
00:08:34worked on a cookbook with Maya Angelou, first time I've seen art portrayed in a cookbook in this way.
00:08:41Definitely first time I've seen The Bomb Squad shouted out in a cookbook for anyone. I mean, also,
00:08:46hi, Eric. So, how did you, how did you do that? How did the food book world, the culinary book world,
00:08:57respond to you wanting to bring all of this flavor to your description of very important flavors we need
00:09:05to incorporate more of? Yeah. You know, the thing about my approach to cookbook writing is that,
00:09:12like, I do a lot of extensive research when I'm working on a new book project, looking at cookbooks
00:09:18and, you know, going to restaurants, eating at friends' homes, just really diving into the food
00:09:25specific research. But, you know, as a creative person who loves film and music and art and culture,
00:09:34like all those things feed me and all those become the fodder from which I draw to create, you know,
00:09:40my projects. And so, I've been doing this, and I'll say a lot of it is inspired by my own kind of,
00:09:47like, connection with food. I think you know that, you know, in terms of, like,
00:09:52deciding that I wanted to become a vegan, it was because of the hip-hop song,
00:09:56Beef by Boogie Down Productions. And it's lead singer Kara's one. And so, you know, for me,
00:10:04I've always done this, like, from my first book, even Grub. I mean, we had, like, the recipes,
00:10:09but I included a soundtrack with every menu. I would suggest films and books. And so, all the
00:10:16things that feed me, I like to share that with others. And I just feel lucky now that I have,
00:10:21you know, because, like, this was a black and white book. And so, I mean, well, actually, we,
00:10:27they didn't want to give us a full-color book. This is 2006.
00:10:30Two-color.
00:10:31Yeah, it was two-color. And so, we were like, well, can we just have green text instead of black?
00:10:35So, they did give us that. But, you know, I've always tried to do this, and I just feel so lucky
00:10:41that now I have the resources to do it the right way. You know, four-color, beautiful images, you know,
00:10:49having the ability to even have, like, Spotify, where I can create a Vegetable Kingdom soundtrack.
00:10:55So, all the songs that I recommend with every recipe, you can go right to Spotify and look up
00:10:59Vegetable Kingdom, and you have access to them. So, this is what I do.
00:11:05Fantastic. So, you were inspired to become a vegan because of KRS-One. Also, shout to KRS-One
00:11:14and the idea that, remember when people said, oh, all rap does is glorify violence,
00:11:19and if people listen to this music full-time, they're just going to be violent? No, they're
00:11:23going to be vegan. That's a thing. How did your family respond to that?
00:11:29And how did you actually incorporate that? Because at 13, were you cooking your own meals?
00:11:34Were you able to? How did that work out?
00:11:37I was a little older than 13. I think I was, like, a sophomore in high school. But, you know,
00:11:45I think in order for me to talk about, like, that whole period, I need to kind of go back
00:11:53and talk a little bit about, because I'm sure you've heard this, right? There's this perception
00:11:59that a lot of people have had historically that plant-based eating, vegetarian, veganism, they're
00:12:05the kind of practices of upper-middle-class white suburbanites, and more recently, you know, the kind
00:12:11of white gentrifying class in urban centers. And I think it's important that I always talk about
00:12:20the early influences, just my introduction to these ideas and how they came from Black folks. You know,
00:12:27the first time I even, like, encountered any ideas about eating a vegetarian or vegan diet,
00:12:31it was from Seven Dead Men who were family friends. And they talked about that kind of the theologically
00:12:37driven, you know, way in which they connected with food and ate. And so, you know, hearing about that,
00:12:44reading the autobiography of Malcolm X, and then learning more about the Nation of Islam. I mean,
00:12:50Elijah Muhammad had a very strong health ministry. In fact, he wrote two books, How to Eat to Live,
00:12:57Part 1 and 2, where he was instructing Black folks on the ways that he argued we should be eating for
00:13:02our better health and longevity. You know, I think about many hip-hop artists, from KRS-One to Brand
00:13:09Nubian to Gangstar, you know, these rappers who were influenced by the Nation of Islam or the
00:13:145% Nation of Gods and Nerds, and they talked about food in their lyrics. I think about when I heard
00:13:21beef, and I'll say this, whatever perception you might have, Portia, of the most judgmental, dogmatic,
00:13:29self-righteous, judgmental vegan, you know, this stereotype that we often have of people who are
00:13:36vegans, I was that guy after I heard beef. And to this day, I'm like, oh, I'm so sorry,
00:13:43mom and dad for being such a jerk back then. But, you know, like, I started going to the health
00:13:50food store. It was the health food store in Memphis, downtown Memphis, that I would often go to. And I
00:13:54would meet these Black elders who embraced a plant-based diet. I would meet these older Rastafarians,
00:14:02Black Rastafarians, who had an ITAL diet, which is, you know, devoid of any chemicals and meat and all
00:14:08that. You know, I'd meet folks who, you know, for whatever theological reasons, like, I met this
00:14:13Buddhist, this older Black brother who was like, Buddhism brought me to this. So those were my
00:14:18mentors and elders who helped teach me. I think about, you know, Dick Gregory, the comedian and
00:14:22social justice activist. That was one of the first books that really broke down all these different
00:14:27dietary models and helped me think about my own personal connection with food in that way. And so,
00:14:33I just feel like it's important for me to share that because it's like, you know, so often our food,
00:14:38our habits, the way that we live are vilified in this racist way. And I think I need to,
00:14:44it's important for me to illuminate and draw this thread throughout the 20th century of Black-led food
00:14:50and health activism. I'm standing on the shoulders of all those people. Those are my teachers. I'm
00:14:59certainly not saying that I'm inventing anything new or creating anything. I'm just kind of
00:15:04packaging this in a way that I think makes sense. But the ultimate goal is liberation and just more
00:15:10healthy and whole lives for our people and everyone. Thank you. I'm in. I say that now,
00:15:19that's very easy to say when you're not hungry, but we'll see how this goes. So then, okay, here's a
00:15:24question. What is a tip that you would give to somebody who is inspired in this way, but is so
00:15:30addicted to something, let's say like cheese, that they couldn't say I'm all in the way a friend might
00:15:39want to say she was all in? That's a great question. And, you know, my approach has always been
00:15:47when talking to people who are interested in transitioning from a standard American diet or a
00:15:52very meat-centric diet, my approach has always been gradualism. I mean, I think, you know,
00:15:58people have different personalities. Some people, they need that kind of cold turkey. Like, I'm done.
00:16:02I'm not touching animal products again. And that works for them. But what I found so often is that
00:16:08people will have these kind of idealistic ways or visions of how they're just going to drop all animal
00:16:14products when they may have never like had, you know, an absence of those things in their diet. And then
00:16:20initially with the, you know, endorphins and excitement of just being, you know, having a
00:16:26different worldview or practicing different habits, you know, it can work. But in terms of long-term
00:16:30sustainability, I've seen a lot of people were just like, oh, you know, okay, I went to somewhere
00:16:34and they didn't have any vegan options. So now I'm just eating meat again. And so I just think that
00:16:40there needs to be balance. And I think that when you educate yourself about the ways to feed
00:16:45ourselves properly, because you can have a vegetarian or vegan diet and it can still be crappy.
00:16:50It can still be replete with processed foods, packaged foods, fast foods. And in fact, the
00:16:56multinational corporations that largely control our food system, they are very clear that this is a
00:17:01growing trend. There's a market hungriness, pun intended, for more plant-based and vegan options.
00:17:10And so what they do is they will, you know, label things as vegan. They will like describe them as
00:17:16healthy. While these things often like, you know, healthy, natural, these things don't have a legal
00:17:20definition, but they're marketing terms that they use to draw people in. And so, you know, my whole thing
00:17:26is, I understand if it's, if you're purely driven by like ethical reasons, like I don't want to hurt
00:17:33animals. I know in our industrialized food system, animals are treated horribly. You know, I get it,
00:17:39but I think that in terms of our own health and well-being, we have to be eating, you know,
00:17:43I talk about vegetable-centric diets, right? Vegetable-forward diets, because it's not just
00:17:48enough to eliminate animal products. We need to be eating a lot of whole grains and vegetables and
00:17:54lunes, these things that actually build our immune system and help us to be, you know, whole and happy
00:18:00and, you know, age gracefully. So I just think it's about like doing what works for you, figuring out what
00:18:06feels good. You know, I often tell people to keep a food journal because, you know, maybe being a raw
00:18:12foodist would be perfect for you for a couple months, but then when the winter comes, it's colder,
00:18:18our bodies are yearning and craving more grounding and warming things like soups and stews and root
00:18:23vegetables and legumes. We need to listen to that and not be so dogmatic about how we imagine
00:18:29whatever this panacea is and we aren't listening to our body and kind of following that. So those are some
00:18:34tips that I share with folks. Ooh, you now have my editorial wheels spinning. I'm like,
00:18:39food journal, got it. Like, they let me be on the Potter team with our incredible gift program,
00:18:46brainstorming session soon. Thank you, Brian. I will give you credit in the meeting.
00:18:53I appreciate that. So, okay, where would I start? Are there some go-to vegetables? Like,
00:19:01I'm going to have more vegetable-forward diet and I'm going grocery shopping to get started.
00:19:08Where should I start? That's a great question. And I think you should start by eating the foods
00:19:14that your grandmother and your great-grandmother and your great-grandmother ate. You know,
00:19:18one thing that I think is often missing from conversations about eating healthfully and how
00:19:23we imagine what a healthful diet is are embracing and consuming our cultural foods. You know,
00:19:30before the kind of industrialization of our food system and this kind of process package fast food
00:19:36culture that we live in, people were growing their own food. People were eating these traditional foods
00:19:40that often included animal products. You know, I have a lot to say about the inclusion of animal products
00:19:46outside of my ethical concerns, but we can get into that another time. But I do think it's important,
00:19:51especially when you have elders who are around and who were connected to these kind of traditional
00:19:56diets to talk to them and find out and learn skills. You know, there's so many elders who
00:20:04grew up on farms. They have a growing knowledge. They know how to grow food. Like, we should be in the
00:20:10gardens with them. We should be in the community gardens and the urban farms connecting with them and
00:20:14learning with them. You know, so many of them, despite the way in which so often I feel like
00:20:19you see stories in the New York Times or these glossy magazines about like canning and pickling
00:20:25and preserving. It's often like, you know, cute college educated white girls who are like being
00:20:31kind of uplifted for these practices when these are ancestral practices that I know I have in my
00:20:36family. And when I talk across the country, I talk to people and I'm like, you know, how many of your
00:20:40family members had home gardens? How many of your ancestors grew up on farms? How many of you,
00:20:46your grandparents or your big mama and Madea used to can and pickle and preserve? There's this cultural
00:20:54amnesia where I think we even forget a lot of these practices have been in our own families. And I think
00:21:00we need to remember, piece back these histories. And one easy way to do that is connecting with our
00:21:07elders. But I want to say on that note of eating cultural foods, you know, I've been pushing back
00:21:13throughout my career against this kind of like reductive way in which people often talk about
00:21:19black food. And so often when people, I found that they kind of imagined black food in two ways,
00:21:25right? So one, people often say, well, black food, that's just slave food. You know, that's just the
00:21:32remnants of plantation owners tables, you know, whatever they, the white folks didn't want to eat,
00:21:36that they gave us the worst scraps that were left from the vegetables, the animal viscera,
00:21:42and we kind of created a way. And that might be part of the story. But, you know, saying that that's
00:21:47like the kind of totality, it's, it's a historical in that slavery, the institution of slavery wasn't
00:21:53a monolith, you know, the way it looked in the kind of black belt looked different than a coastal
00:21:58Carolinas look different than Louisiana look different in the Caribbean. And so just like making these
00:22:03blanket statements, it erases the history of some, like in the Caribbean, for example, people might
00:22:09have a day off where they can cultivate their own garden, where they can actually like hunt for
00:22:14animals to supplement the protein. So all that to say is this idea that, well, it's just slave food
00:22:19is historically inaccurate, and it's much more complex. But the other thing that people will
00:22:24often say is, well, you know, soul food, when they say black food in their mind, what they mean is, well,
00:22:30that's soul food, soul food is black food. And when they think soul food, what they often are
00:22:34imagining are like the kind of heavy flavored, you know, deep fried, you know, the stuff you would find
00:22:43most often at restaurants, you know, deep fried fatty meats, sugary desserts, carbicides,
00:22:50overcooked vegetables. And I'm not even trying to deny that, like, that's a part of our culinary history
00:22:55as well. You know, eating chitlins is a part of our culinary history. But what people often erase
00:23:02are the ways in which, you know, just, if you think about farm fresh food, if you think about
00:23:06the food that I think any Western trained allopathic physician, dietitian, nutritionist would say we all
00:23:12should be eating, these are the staples of our cuisine. Nutrient dense leafy greens like collards,
00:23:18mustards, turnips, kale, dandelions, black eyed peas, butter beans, pole beans, like these are
00:23:25healthful foods at their core. So I say that if we want to find health liberation,
00:23:31we needn't look any further than our own foods. And I encourage all people to lean on their cultural
00:23:36foods as a way to, you know, I mean, not just like connect on a healthful way, but you're connecting
00:23:42with like family, history, memories, it's a part of who we are. And I think we need to
00:23:48get off this industrial treadmill and remember those aspects of our history and culture as well.
00:23:54Wow. Now I'm like smiling big and thinking, oh, right, cabbage, like, okay, if I'm going,
00:24:00but it didn't occur to me, oh, right, that is what my grandmother cooked. I would think of no cabbages,
00:24:07that thing that they eat. But you're right, that is a phenomenal place to start. And it warms you
00:24:12up and it's more likely to create a positive culinary experience that you would want to revisit
00:24:18again, because of the feeling, the emotion involved and the connection.
00:24:23Wow. I see.
00:24:23Can I just say one thing that upsets me? When I think about my grandparents'
00:24:27neighborhood, you know, they came from, they, I grew up in Memphis, they moved to Memphis when
00:24:32they were young, but they came from families that had farms in rural Tennessee and rural Mississippi.
00:24:38And so obviously they brought with them those traditions and the growing knowledge and the
00:24:43desire to grow their own food. In fact, my grandfather, one of the things he used to say
00:24:47to me, like, it used to bug me because I'm like, why do you repeat this every time you had me out
00:24:51here slaving in this garden, weeding and picking, snapping beans and sucking corn. But he used to
00:24:57always remind me that if you rely on someone else to feed you, when they decide that they don't want
00:25:03to, you'll starve. And he used to hammer that in while we were actually working in the garden.
00:25:08And like, you know, it wasn't even a garden, every bit of available space that he had, he was using to
00:25:14grow food in his backyard. And when you walked around the neighborhood, you would see most neighbors,
00:25:19I mean, whether it was just like tomato plants on their front porch, or like mini orchards with like
00:25:25nectarine trees, pear trees, peach trees in their backyards, everyone was producing, or many people were
00:25:31producing some type of food, and they had this local thriving food system in this working class
00:25:36neighborhood in South Memphis, Tennessee. And then when I go back to that neighborhood now, it's like
00:25:43it's a shell of itself, you don't see any fruit trees, they're very few gardens, if any. And statistically,
00:25:49that's one of the neighborhoods that has some of the highest rates of preventable diet related illness,
00:25:54heart disease, hypertension, type two diabetes. I know there are a number of complicated reasons that lend to
00:26:00these statistics, but food is a big part of it. And I recognize that if we aren't growing our own food,
00:26:07if we are being seduced by these multinational corporations and eating this crappy processed
00:26:12packaged food, you know, it's almost I feel like we're dishonoring our ancestors in some ways,
00:26:19because they knew better. And so we need to know better and do better. And I'm not, I mean,
00:26:23we could talk about the structural reasons that a lot of communities may not have access to healthy,
00:26:28fresh, affordable foods. I'm not blaming the victim, but I'm encouraging us to all kind of like reach
00:26:34back and think about these traditions that we can re-embrace that will actually lead to our like
00:26:41community healing. And more than encouraging, you are actually inspiring it. And it's subtle,
00:26:48like there are things like in talking about some of those traditional foods that we would think of as
00:26:54black food. You didn't mention the meal itself, right? You spoke in broader terms. So it's not to
00:27:01activate whatever that kind of addiction is like, no, but you would lean into describing the black
00:27:07IPs, the dandelion greens, the turnips, the mustard. It's like, you're very good at what you do.
00:27:14How did, how did you learn this? You hear a record like beef. You're like, okay, I want to turn away
00:27:20from this. Where, where did you start to actively learn? Were all of those resources, had you already
00:27:26read the autobiography of Malcolm X? Had you already experienced, we were talking beforehand about
00:27:31Verde Mae Grosvenor's vibration cooking, like were those already in your wheelhouse? Yeah. Can you show
00:27:36it to everyone? Because wow. Classic. Classic. Edited by Toni Morrison. This is not beef, but this was one of
00:27:46my first Boogie Down production single my dad got me. You know the rules. I always say that so much of
00:27:56what I am attempting, what I'm imparting to people are things I learned in my grandparents' garden and
00:28:02kitchen. You know, I spent a lot of time in my paternal grandfather's garden. And I kind of
00:28:08jokingly, I always have jokingly like say, oh, he was exploiting our labor because I'm not going to
00:28:13romanticize it and pretend like I love being out there. I didn't. I wanted to be in the house playing
00:28:18video games or reading or doing something, but he insisted that all the grandkids be a part of the
00:28:24garden. And so we had to weed, we had to plant, we had to shuck corn and shell peas and all that. And like
00:28:30now as a parent, as an adult, I'm just like, thank you. I got the time to have this, you know,
00:28:37intimate relationship in the garden with my paternal grandfather. And I learned about the
00:28:42whole seat to table process because, you know, we can talk about, and once again, you know,
00:28:46thinking about the way in which the kind of movement in California around fresh local seasonal cuisine.
00:28:54You know, so often I think when people hear those terms, once again, they default,
00:28:58think about like these fancy restaurants that are often run by white chefs, or they think about,
00:29:03you know, this movement that Alice Waters was a big part of kickstarting. But, you know, people don't
00:29:09immediately think about like black folks. And what I'm here to say is, once again, these are our
00:29:14traditions. These are the things that we did for survival. You know, it wasn't like my granddad was
00:29:18like, you know, I'm, I got this cool garden and I'm like, you know, doing like sustainable
00:29:22agriculture. It was like, no, that's what was economically sustainable because growing your
00:29:29food allowed you to save your hard earned money for other things than spending it at some corporate
00:29:34owned supermarket. So a number of reasons, but it was that, but it was also spending time with
00:29:40my maternal grandmother where I learned about this whole concept of slow cooking. She didn't call it
00:29:46that, right? We talk about slow food. We think, you know, Northern, Western Europe. We think Italy.
00:29:52We think Carlo Petrini, the brilliant far left activist who helped kick that start that movement.
00:29:56But you can't tell me that when my grandmother was in the kitchen on Saturday, cooking all day
00:30:02on Sunday, that that wasn't so food cooking. The fact that she was literally going out to her garden
00:30:08and harvesting things to then cook for that meal. You know, the fact that she was making cornbread and cakes
00:30:13and, you know, just taking her time and using all real ingredients. Those are the things that I
00:30:20am hoping to inspire people to do. You know, I think a lot of, um, hardcore like vegan abolitionists
00:30:27who are more into like, you know, just like closing factory farms and, you know, really are enraged by the
00:30:34the violent way that animals are treated in our industrial food system. I think a lot of people want me to be
00:30:38focused on that. And I think it's important that people know that. And I talk about that,
00:30:43but I think there are people who should talk about that, um, in a more expanded way. I think the issues
00:30:51that I want to talk about, they're so complicated that I'm not going to reduce it to just like
00:30:55everyone should be a vegan because frankly, for health reasons, I don't necessarily believe that
00:31:00that's the case. I can make arguments all day about why, you know, ethical reasons, environmental
00:31:07reasons, economic reasons, why it makes sense for most of us to have a plant-based diet.
00:31:12But I don't like getting, you know, I'm not going to be the person who's going to make this claim
00:31:16that a vegan diet is a diet that we all should be on. Because first of all, I'm not a physician,
00:31:21so I would never give medical advice, but secondly, I think we're all, you know,
00:31:28our bodies are different. You know, our health constitution, our cultural food ways,
00:31:33all these things I think should contribute to what foods we're eating. Um, and if you're telling me
00:31:39that like some people who are living in the plains in Africa and that, you know, the kind of foods
00:31:44they're eating because of the geographic location that they're, um, living in, that they should eat
00:31:49a vegan diet and go to Whole Foods and buy all these expensive products labeled as vegan. It's like,
00:31:54you don't really believe that. And it doesn't make sense. So anyway, that's a whole other thing that
00:31:59we could talk about in another conversation. Um, okay. So now you are watching your maternal
00:32:08grandmother prepare all of these meals, right? There's a big disconnect between how she's preparing
00:32:16these meals or maybe there isn't and writing out a recipe, right? I think about all the things that
00:32:22I wish I knew how to cook that I've half practiced by sitting at the apron strings, but I have no
00:32:29measurement for any of these things. So how did you go about, okay, now we have to quantify and make a
00:32:35recipe out of something that was really just an oral tradition. Yeah. That's a great question because
00:32:41you're right. Um, I think a lot of people from that generation, my grandparents' generation,
00:32:46you know, I think about Verda McRozner's vibration cooking, like people cook through like feeling,
00:32:52you know, using their senses to kind of measure ingredients. And so like, I feel like the magic
00:33:00in the kitchen is that space between a recipe and like, just, I think it's about spontaneity,
00:33:07creativity, like just using what's on hand. I always say, and maybe I'm running, but I always say that
00:33:13the recipe should just be a guide. Like, I don't think people should be wed to cookbooks. I think
00:33:19for people who may not be like proficient in cooking, they are great to help give you the
00:33:23foundational skills. But for example, if I have a recipe that calls for, uh, mustard greens, um,
00:33:30and you're growing Swiss chard at home, use the Swiss chard, you know, swap out leafy greens. You know,
00:33:35if you don't have whatever ingredient, think about what you can modify it. Think about what's,
00:33:39you know, on hand. And so that's where a lot of the magic happens. And, um, but as an educator,
00:33:47as someone who started doing this work, when I founded an organization called Be Healthy,
00:33:52that used cooking as a way to engage and politicize young people around food issues.
00:33:56I know because so many of them were disconnected from cooking. So many of them never cooked,
00:34:00you know? I mean, we had young people in the Be Healthy, the program I founded in New York,
00:34:04who came in, I mean, these are high school students. And, you know, some of them would be like,
00:34:08I don't drink water. I just drink sodas or I haven't eaten a vegetable since I was like 10.
00:34:15And, you know, there was no judgment for me because I understand the complicated reasons that
00:34:20they were making those choices. But at the same time, um, you know, we had to teach them how to cook.
00:34:27And so I know that a lot of people at home will get a little nervous if you're like a handful of this,
00:34:32a pinch. I need a measurement. What is a pinch? What's the quantity?
00:34:38So I'm very meticulous about like writing recipes in a way that the, the, the, like the person who
00:34:46only knows how to boil a cup of water, a pot of water, they can come into the book and feel like
00:34:50they have a lot of the, um, the tools to cook with it. I'll tell you one of the criticisms that I hear
00:34:57from a lot of people and I'm not even ashamed of this. It is what it is, but a lot of people,
00:35:02um, cause I read comments on amazon.com, but I shouldn't.
00:35:07But from there and just like hearing like the scuttlebutt, a lot of people are like,
00:35:11you know, I love your recipes. They're really delicious, but they just take too much time.
00:35:16They take too much labor. It's just, it's too much. And I'll say that I don't necessarily think
00:35:21that most of the recipes are meant to cook on weeknights because it's all from scratch. You're
00:35:27not going to find all these fake vegan, fake meat products, fake oil, you know, just the stuff that
00:35:32I think a lot of people who eat plant-based will lean on. I'm like, look, I'm not going to make you
00:35:38spend money on some like, you know, fake cream that has all these like additives and preservatives.
00:35:45I'm going to show you how to make cashew cream from scratch. Yeah. It might take a little longer.
00:35:49You might need to do it a day ahead that you make the dish, but I want people to feel like
00:35:54they have the tools to make really clean, delicious food. And I say that, you know,
00:36:00maybe it means doing it on a weekend. Maybe it means gathering with family and friends and do it.
00:36:04And in fact, I encourage people to do that. Capitalism convinces us that we need to address
00:36:08everything as an individual. We need to do it on ourselves. Even when we talk about like improving
00:36:13health, I think so many people get stuck in this place where they think that consumer action,
00:36:19an individual kind of like agency is the thing that we need to do to fix all this. And it's not,
00:36:25that's a part of it, but we need to think about how we make changes in community. We need to think
00:36:30about how we make changes on policies, you know? And so I always say that slow food cook is important.
00:36:38Building community is important. And think about this. What if like, so yeah, maybe you making some of my
00:36:43recipes might take all Saturday, right? But what if on Saturday morning, you gathered with six or
00:36:48seven of your friends, you all went to Grand Army Plaza, you pooled your money to collectively buy
00:36:54ingredients at the farmer's market, you get in the freshest, most local ingredients,
00:36:58you come back to someone's home who has like a big kitchen and appliances,
00:37:02everyone collectively cooks together. You make seven different from scratch meals,
00:37:07you're kicking it, you're drinking wine, you're smoking a little something, whatever. And then you
00:37:11are able to like build community with friends and family. And then everybody leaves with these fresh
00:37:16from scratch meals that you can freeze, you can put up and you got like good food for the rest of the
00:37:21week. So that for me is the way in which we can kind of reimagine how we do this outside of our
00:37:26individual self outside of our nuclear family, and really bring in and call community to help us to
00:37:32be better.
00:37:34Ooh, I'm now like, you've given me something else to look forward to in a post COVID world.
00:37:40Um, and feeling like something else that it's stolen. I can't wait. Like that sounds like a phenomenal
00:37:46idea. And especially again, having the community support in being living a more nutritious and
00:37:54helpful life. And then sharing that kind of that life that love living food with the people that
00:38:01you love the most. I'm okay. I'm in. Now I'm understanding why you are so popular right now.
00:38:09Um, because you are the real deal. And that shows through. Um, how did you know that then you were
00:38:16ready in your journey to write the book about it? Because that's a far cry from okay, I'm having this
00:38:22experience and I'm living, I'm working in whatever space I'm working in. And now it's time for me
00:38:28to write a book about it. That's a great question. And this is Afropunk. I'm talking to you. So I'm
00:38:34going to give you like the real, not just the prepackaged answer. I'm going to give you the real
00:38:38deal answer. And part of that is, I imagine greatness for myself in that, you know, when I think about
00:38:47greatness, it's about like me doing something to contribute to the greater good. And I knew I
00:38:53wanted to do something. Um, cause having done the work around like, you know, food, uh, justice issues,
00:39:00working with young people in New York city and seeing the impact that we had in New York and
00:39:04regionally. And I really felt like I was onto something and I wanted to have a national platform.
00:39:10And I always thought that writing a book would give me that kind of national and even international
00:39:15platform. And so I, um, one of my neighbors in Brooklyn was this woman, Anna LaPay. She comes
00:39:22from a family of food activists. You know, her mother wrote this book in the seventies, died for a
00:39:26small planet that pushed back against this notion that we don't have enough food to feed people. Um, and,
00:39:31and, and, and, you know, that's why we're dealing with issues around hunger and food insecurity, but no,
00:39:36it's about like how food is allocated and how corporations are actually like just ruining our food
00:39:42system. But point is Anna and I, um, linked up and, you know, there was a part of me that was like,
00:39:49man, we just have great chemistry. I think we could write a book together, but I didn't want to
00:39:53bring it up. Cause I wanted her to know that I was genuinely interested in being
00:39:56friends with her and building. And then she's like, we should write a book together.
00:40:00And I'll say that that relationship, like that whole arc of events, I would say that was put in
00:40:12motion through meditation, through prayer, through vision boards, through all this stuff that wasn't
00:40:20so specific, but just was like, I want all the resources and energy and tools to come to me that
00:40:26will help me to be a best service to our people, to the greater world around these issues that I'm
00:40:32starting to care about so dearly, health, food, farming. And so it was great working with Anna
00:40:36because, you know, we went on tour, her mother had just happened to be, I'm doing like, they had done
00:40:42a recent reprint or a kind of anniversary issue of, uh, died for a small planet. So I got to go on
00:40:48tour with an OG who was showing me the ropes. In fact, even before, like, you know, the important
00:40:53steps that I think a lot of people who, you know, I'm sure a lot of people out there are budding
00:40:57authors or who might be interested in getting into publishing. And there are a lot of steps
00:41:01that take place before you get to being out on tour and writing a book. You have to write a book
00:41:06proposal. You need to oftentimes find an agent or an attorney to help kind of negotiate and shop your
00:41:12deal around. Um, you have to write the book, then you have to like put a lot of energy into marketing
00:41:18and promotion and having like this OG who had been doing this since the seventies, um, who guided us
00:41:24and helped us out and got us an agent and got us a bigger, much more, the advance was so much more
00:41:30than we should have gotten as like, you know, young authors like that. But, um, it was great. And I,
00:41:36I, you know, that relationship and having that coaching and mentorship is one of the reasons that I'm
00:41:43so committed to being a mentor. I, you know, have so many informal and formal relationships to budding
00:41:48authors, both in the cookbook space and otherwise. And I just feel like I want to pay it forward. And
00:41:54I, I really take that seriously, like mentoring people, helping them understand the ins and outs
00:41:59of this often kind of like, uh, cloistered industry. And then also, um, I have some, some things that move
00:42:08beyond just the kind of individual personal relationships that are going to be happening in,
00:42:12uh, 2021 moving forward that are more like structural me leading initiatives to actually
00:42:18ensure that more BIPLC, um, folks have access to the, um, publishing industry and, and are able to
00:42:24find their, their way in the media space. So we'll circle back to that at another point.
00:42:30Can't wait. Can't wait. Can you tell us that you did say something about 2021.
00:42:35What do you have coming out in 2021?
00:42:382021. I have a book that I've been working on since the shelter in place. Well, I'll say since
00:42:46the uprising started when, you know, the, the anti-racist movement was building and the uprising
00:42:51jumped off three, four months ago, whenever it feels like three, four years ago at this point.
00:42:55Uh, but you know, I was really pushing myself in that moment to consider what I can do more to give
00:43:02back. Right. What could I do? And, you know, we were going on family caravan protests, uh,
00:43:08the support, the movement in the streets. And I was donating money to a number of organizations
00:43:13that I'm committed to supporting, um, namely, uh, critical resistance who does a lot of prison
00:43:17abolition work. But I was like, what more can I do given my skillset, my social, uh, you know, my,
00:43:26my, um, platform, my, uh, connections. And so my agent and I pitched this book, Black Food,
00:43:33to my publisher and they bought it immediately. And they really understand the importance
00:43:38of this book. And I'm glad that they got it. And so Black Food is a collection of, um, recipes,
00:43:43artwork, and essays. And the book is inspired by, because, you know, if we talk about this book,
00:43:49we have to talk about, um, my residency at MOAD, which is the Museum of the African Diaspora in San
00:43:55Francisco. And so in 2015, the former executive director, Linda Harrison, created this position
00:44:01for me. And she's like, you know, in a city like San Francisco, that because of out-migration of
00:44:07Black folks, largely caused by the, the proliferation of the tech industry and gentrification,
00:44:13the population has gone from about 13, 14%, maybe a decade ago to around 3% now, right?
00:44:21So imagine the impact that that's had on the soul of that city. And she just got that this museum
00:44:27can play much, a much bigger role than just doing fine art exhibitions. And so I create public
00:44:33programming where I bring scholars and activists and authors and all these people who are doing food
00:44:40work in to do everything from intimate conversations to panel discussions to dinners. We actually have
00:44:46converted the lobby of the museum into a dining room and done dinners there. And I've always thought,
00:44:53how can we take this magical and brilliant and groundbreaking program to the world? Of course,
00:44:58the first program we had in 2015 was called Black Women, Food and Power. And I really thought it was
00:45:04important to start in that place and to uplift and celebrate Black women and the role that they played
00:45:09historically and in the contemporary moment around the production and distribution and consumption
00:45:14of food and food knowledge. Because there are a lot of, there are a few scholars on there who've
00:45:18written books about food. And, you know, the fact that we had people who came from the East Coast,
00:45:24from New York City to the Bay Area for a two hour program, it showed me that we, there was a deep,
00:45:31pun intended, hunger for this type of programming. And so that's what this, this book is really kind of
00:45:36building on that. And so it's going to have like, I've worked with a number of artists
00:45:41from around the world to commission these pieces or license pieces that open up each chapter.
00:45:47I mean, just last week, I talked to people in Freetown, Sierra Leone, Accra, Ghana, Nairobi, Kenya,
00:45:54Cape Town and Johannesburg, South Africa. These are all contributors to this book. So it's going to be a truly
00:46:00global book that celebrates our food. And we talked about the Black book and your connection
00:46:07with Toni Morrison and getting an opportunity to edit that book, the kind of anniversary edition
00:46:13and meet her. Toni Morrison, her, she has a quote where she talks about racism being a distraction
00:46:19and the way in which, you know, when we're so consumed with the albatross of white supremacy around our necks,
00:46:25it prevents us from being our fully brilliant, creative and human selves. And that's what this
00:46:30book is about. You can't write a book like this without acknowledging the historical and
00:46:34contemporary ways in which we've been invisiblized, marginalized, exploited. But we know that this is
00:46:39FUBU. This is for us, by us. I want people to look in and join the conversation, but this book is
00:46:45written for us and is by us. And for me, it's just like, what does our lives and our work look like
00:46:52when we aren't distracted by racism? When we're like sinking into our agency, our magic, our brilliance,
00:46:57our creativity. And so that's the energy of this book. And when I, when I want people,
00:47:02what I want people to do is I want people to find it useful in the kitchen. There'll be 80 recipes,
00:47:07beautiful photographs for each recipe, but I want it to also live on people's nightstands,
00:47:11their coffee tables, their credenzas. Like this will be a multifunctional book. And it's the book that we
00:47:16need because I think it's going to also build a global community and using food as a connective
00:47:23tissue that's bringing us all together. So, um, I'm all here for black food.
00:47:27Ooh, I'm all here for black food and I feel guilty because I'll get to read it before a lot
00:47:32of other people, but I can't wait for everybody to be able to read it. Um, speaking of community,
00:47:40it is really a blessing to be here in this Afropunk space and know that there are so many people who
00:47:46are likely inspired by what you have to say right now. Um, we'd love to open that up. Is that okay
00:47:51with you to open it up to questions from those folks, um, to make sure that this is serving them.
00:47:56I know as much as it is enriching me, um, to be in this conversation. So if you would like to ask a
00:48:04question of Bryant, um, please do unmute yourself. Our stage managers should be allowing for that to
00:48:10happen now. Um, and I look forward to hearing what is on your mind. If there aren't any.
00:48:26Cause I have tons of other questions that I can ask if nobody else does and they're going to involve
00:48:31music. I'm just going to say that now. Cause also in vegetable kingdom, you have a spread,
00:48:36right? That includes album stakes as high as on top. And you're from Memphis. Like how,
00:48:42I'm just so curious. You got a gang star in there, public enemy. Um, I'm from Memphis. I'm a
00:48:51hip hop East coast nineties hip hop. That's like, that's my zone. I love Memphis. Look,
00:48:59I love Memphis rap. I love, I love the fact that the kind of predominant sound and rap now is
00:49:05really, I'm like, this is stuff that people in Memphis were doing 20 years ago, but that's all
00:49:09the conversation. But, you know, um, I wanted to say something that was, um, interesting because
00:49:16this book came to me and, you know, we were doing the deals and, you know, signing all the contracts.
00:49:22And then I remember it was about a week before, you know, the folks at 10 speed press, my publisher
00:49:28was like, okay, you know, you can announce next week. I think everything is set or whatever.
00:49:32And then I heard that, um, there's this new book coming out by, um, Jenna, Jenna Worthen
00:49:40and Kimberly. Black futures futures. And I was like, oh my God, you know? And so then
00:49:47somebody had sent it to me like, oh, do you know about this book? And it was like, you know,
00:49:51it's like essays and tweets and memes and recipes. And I'm like, oh my God, man, that sounds so
00:49:58similar to what I'm doing. People are going to think I bit that idea. Like I should have announced
00:50:02it two weeks ago. What's going on? But once I got over my initial kind of like anxiety that people
00:50:08are going to feel like I, you know, I did the idea. I was like, you know, I'm glad that they're
00:50:12writing this book. And then I saw Marcus Samuelson has this book, um, that was recently published
00:50:17where he talks about like kind of celebrating black farmers in the, in the States, black farmers
00:50:22and chefs. I still haven't read it. Uh, big up to Osayi. Um, and so, you know, I was just like,
00:50:27you know what, this is beautiful because this is the moment this, there's a zeitgeist where we're like
00:50:32one mind, one spirit, one connection. We're all like interrelated. And so this is a moment where
00:50:38we're about like celebrating our culture and like, you know, like further adding to this black canon
00:50:46that I would say, you know, like the black book that, um, Toni Morrison edited is kind of like one
00:50:51of the precursors to. And so I hope that black food encourages 15 other people to do a book similar
00:50:58to this where they're, you know, creating collections that celebrate, um, our food in a way that they
00:51:02think makes sense. So I'm, I'm just excited about this period where black art and black cultural
00:51:09production is about to be off the chain because, um, well, a lot of reasons, but I'm excited.
00:51:16And it's interesting to know black futures. When I first heard about that project and shout to Jenna
00:51:21Wortham and Kimberly Drew, um, and to our one world colleagues for making that happen. Um, Chris Jackson,
00:51:28Nicole Counts, um, Elizabeth Mendez-Berry, we are all very excited that they are leaders in this space
00:51:33right now. But when I first heard about that project, what inspired it was the black book.
00:51:38And to hear you, yeah, absolutely. And as Chris Jackson and I had the opportunity to talk about
00:51:44the black book, it was this, their book picks up where this book leaves off, right? This book ends in 1945
00:51:51for very explicit reasons. Um, and so what carries that forward and to think about how many people
00:51:58have been inspired by this Ta-Nehisi Coates talks about being inspired by the black book, his father
00:52:02Paul Coates, same thing. And so to know that you were inspired by that art and made 1973, what that looks
00:52:11like now that you have the resources and the influence, the social capital, the platform to be able to
00:52:17build something on the shoulders of those giants, like that is the moment. And as fraught and as painful
00:52:24and as devastating and sad as so much of the moment is, um, there is so much light and it's, it's coming
00:52:32from within and it's connecting to each other. Um, and it's exciting. It is exciting. It's an exciting time to be
00:52:39in this biz. What would you recommend for someone who wants to break into the culinary book biz right now?
00:52:47That's a great question. I, I, I often say that if you're hoping to write a cookbook, um,
00:52:57I discourage people from looking at it as a money-making venture. Um,
00:53:04ideally you'll get a little bit of an advance, you'll earn your advance out, and then you will
00:53:09start getting royalty checks. But I see the role of cookbooks, like I think about, and part of this is
00:53:15the way in which, you know, we fetishize, uh, corporations. And oftentimes, you know, if you
00:53:21have the, the, the backing or the co-signing of a corporation and that makes you legit, right?
00:53:26You could be doing some dope work at home. You could be a dope blogger. You could be a home cook.
00:53:31But then if you get a book deal or some kind of co-signing for this corporation, they say,
00:53:36oh, you made it, you real now. And so understanding that reality and the psychology of people,
00:53:42I always say that a book is like the best calling card that you can have. Cause it will set you apart
00:53:47from the hundreds of other food bloggers who are out there, because you now have this tangible book
00:53:53project that people can buy. And I, you know, think about like, I think especially in a historical
00:54:00moment like this, where it's just clear that there is no economic stability. You know, I was reading an
00:54:04article the other day about how people who have like done it right and have like, you know, made money and
00:54:11put money in savings and tried to invest. And like, all that's been wiped away over the past
00:54:16six, seven, eight months because of this staying shelter in place and everything that's going on.
00:54:21And so, you know, I like, I'm just a hustler. I've always had that hustle ethic. I think a lot of that
00:54:28comes from like, really fetishizing, like, you know, underground hip hop. And like, we're just like,
00:54:34we're going to do it ourselves. Like, forget these major labels. We're going to start our indie label.
00:54:37We're going to do it and make it happen. And so that's just been my approach. And I think that
00:54:41I encourage people to be, you know, entrepreneurs, even if you have a nine to five, like get your
00:54:46hustle on, start your little, you know, side hustle so that if you have something like a book project,
00:54:51you have all these things lined up. So when your book project comes out and you're getting the
00:54:56promotion and everything, not only are you promoting that book, but you're sending people to your other
00:55:02projects that may be revenue generating. You might have a book that you're, um, you sold to a big
00:55:07publisher and you can advance and maybe you never see any of that money, you know, but what if you
00:55:13have an ebook that you're selling for five bucks, all that money's coming to you. And so, um, I, I,
00:55:20I want to suggest a book. I mean, that's, that's a whole other thing, but I think in terms of nuts and
00:55:24bolts skills on how to think about like entering the publishing space, um, Arielle Extutt, who is my
00:55:33former, um, literary agent. Um, and I'm not just saying this because she wrote it with her husband,
00:55:37David Sierra. It's just a brilliant book. Cause there are a lot of books that I've read on how to
00:55:41write a book proposal, how to get into publishing this book. The original title was putting your
00:55:46passion into print, but they re, um, they did a, um, kind of reboot and they have a different title,
00:55:52but it is one of the most comprehensive approachable and actually really like humorous books. Cause they're kind
00:55:58of, you know, funny, um, that takes you from the embryonic stage through writing a proposal,
00:56:04through marketing and promotion. So for anybody who's just like thinking about writing a book,
00:56:09check out that book by Arielle Extutt and her husband, David. It's a, it's a great resource
00:56:13and I've given it to like two dozen people. So thank you for that. That's definitely something
00:56:20I will keep on my shelf too, because obviously I answer that question in a variety of ways and I only,
00:56:26yeah. So thank you for pointing out a very useful resource. Um, this is a music festival.
00:56:33And so I do want to ask, what are you listening to right now? If we could be at Afropunk, who would
00:56:39you want to see on that stage right now? Man. I mean, I'll tell you, I don't know if he's like,
00:56:49I'm sure he'd still be down for it. I would love to see Anderson .Paak
00:56:53at Afropunk. Um, he's one of my favorite musicians and, you know, in terms of like the
00:56:58younger cats. And I just think he's so just, you know, he's a virtuoso. He can sing, he can rhyme,
00:57:05he plays drums and he's just so charismatic and just has good energy. And I've seen him live a
00:57:10couple of times, but you know, if there's anybody you talk like, who you want to see live right now
00:57:14in terms of like a living artist, take me to an Anderson .Paak show any day. I want to see him.
00:57:19Um, but yeah, I think about like, um, I don't know, like the, uh, Burt Sugar. They're kind of like
00:57:27an old school New York, Brooklyn crew. I think about, um, the internet. I love them. In fact, I saw the
00:57:37internet when they, um, when I was at Afropunk in 2014. Um, they got to see him and the whole crew. Um,
00:57:46who else? Afropunk. Um. There's one that's right at the forefront of my mind. This is my white whale.
00:57:54Doom. M.F. Doom. You're a Doom fan? I am a Doom fan. Oh, snap. I'm this close to seeing maybe Doom,
00:58:04maybe a fake in concert a couple of years ago in 2014, actually in February. And it got snowed out.
00:58:12And I was very upset. And I don't know that I'll ever, ever have that opportunity.
00:58:18Have you ever seen Doom and knowing that it was the real Doom in a concert?
00:58:22So first of all, M.F. Doom is Mike's Damn, my favorite MC. Cross the board, old school, new school,
00:58:30whatever. Um, Daniel Dumoulin. I mean, just like KMD. Like, that was one of my favorite hip-hop
00:58:37groups back in the day. And I will say this. I think, and I'm not even mad at Doom for this,
00:58:44but I think I saw Impostor Doom. I think he was sending out, like, the, the Impostors to come
00:58:52probably chilling in Grenada on the beat somewhere. So I don't think I saw the real Doom, but, you know,
00:58:58as kind of, like, a performance art piece, I'm like, yo, that's brilliant. You just, like,
00:59:02got other fools out here who don't even, like, look like you, who aren't even, like,
00:59:06have the same, like, girt, you know, just as big as he is. They're like, did you lose a lot of
00:59:12weight, Doom? But, you know, I'm just gonna send whoever out. So big up to Doom.
00:59:17Big up to Doom. And celebrate all of you who have had the opportunity to see the real
00:59:24Doom in concert. We're jealous. Can I tell you my favorite, um...
00:59:29Well, I'll tell you one of my favorite, like, blow my mind, all the connections concerts,
00:59:35and I'll tell you one of my favorite hip-hop concerts.
00:59:36Ooh, they're not the same. Okay.
00:59:38Yeah. So my favorite, when I, when I was living in New York, um, I decided to,
00:59:46you know, I wanted, before I started this organization, Be Healthy, that used, uh,
00:59:51cooking as a way to engage young people, I was like, I need to, like, improve my cooking skills.
00:59:55So I went to culinary school, and I was determined not to take out a loan. And I was like, I just
01:00:01want to pay for this out of pocket. So I was working full-time, I was going to culinary school,
01:00:05and my girlfriend at the time moved into my tiny-ass studio apartment in Bed-Stuy, Brooklyn,
01:00:11just so we can cut costs. And, like, it just was getting tense during the winter. And so one thing
01:00:16I was like, you know what, I need to have a practice, a spiritual practice that allows me to, like,
01:00:22recenter ground and also gets me out the house. And so I was doing yoga all the time. And that's
01:00:26when I started to really get into, um, Ravi Shankar, the, um, sitarist. And so been a jazz fan,
01:00:35John Coltrane, favorite, right? So I got an opportunity to go to a concert at Carnegie Hall
01:00:42that was featuring, okay, Ravi Shankar, his daughter, Anushka Shankar,
01:00:52Ravi Coltrane, the son of John Coltrane, who was named after Ravi Shankar,
01:00:58and Alice Coltrane, Ravi, um, John Coltrane's, um, widow.
01:01:03Great. Like, that concert was just mind-blowing. But favorite hip-hop concert, SOBs.
01:01:12You know about SOBs.
01:01:14I miss SOBs.
01:01:15SOBs. This was right before Stank-O-N-Y-A was going to drop.
01:01:21This was, like, in the beginning. It was before it actually dropped.
01:01:25Outkast did a performance at SOBs. And, you know, SOBs is like a small club.
01:01:30Yes. I mean, once, once Stank-O-N-Y-A came out, they were only doing stadiums,
01:01:35right? So this was kind of a last moment that you saw them in an intimate space like that.
01:01:39And that was one of the most electrifying shows I've ever been to. And I'll tell you one thing
01:01:46that blew me away. Like, I was always a big, um, fan of Andre 3000. And I was just, like,
01:01:51feels like he's one of the dopest lyricists. But being at that show that night, I was like,
01:01:56like, that dude is magnetic. Like, you could not take your eyes off of him. He just exudes such,
01:02:02like, just brilliance and great energy. And just, like, so pick up to Outkast.
01:02:10Pick up to Outkast. So that's two for two. Nick Stone was here with us yesterday
01:02:15and celebrated Outkast as her favorite group as well. So let's see how tomorrow goes.
01:02:21For this East Coast girl, I still, I will rep Tribe called class till day I die.
01:02:26Um, no disrespect to Outkast, of course. Um, well, not, like, none whatsoever. I remember.
01:02:34Um, but, you know, gotta rep your hometown. Bryant, thank you so much for taking your time
01:02:42to spend with us today. Thank you again, Afropunk. Bryant, do you have any last words that you want
01:02:46to leave with us? Um, I want to say feature people. Feature people. Um, you know, this moment
01:02:56has really been sobering in that, you know, we hear a lot about how people are kind of one paycheck
01:03:03away from really struggling. And there have been people in our community, not even theoretical,
01:03:09not anecdotal. Like we've known people who both of the, um, parents, cause there've been a number
01:03:16of families we've known where both people got laid off at the beginning of this and like, you know,
01:03:21went from being middle-class, you know, having, uh, uh, at least imagined economic stability
01:03:28and folks are really struggling now. And so I think that we need to fight, um, you know,
01:03:34as we're hurtling towards fascism, we need to be pushing back against, um, you know,
01:03:40everything that's going on at the federal level and beyond. But I don't think there's like mutual
01:03:45aid caring for the people in our community. Like that's important. You know, I don't, I can't
01:03:51emphasize enough how we need to be both keeping our eye on like what's happening in our communities
01:03:56and also keeping an eye on how we need to change these larger oppressive structures.
01:04:00We can chew, what do they say? Chew gum and walk at the same time. So take care of your people,
01:04:05feed your people. Feed your people. Thank you, Brian. Thank you, Afro Pump. And be well, everyone.
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