- 2 days ago
ESSENCE CEO Caroline Wanga explores purpose, leadership, culture and community in an intimate C-suite conversation with Chanda Smith Baker, Chief Impact Officer at The Minneapolis Foundation.
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00:00I'm sort of an introverted, shy person that I've had to work very hard at pushing outside of my own zone.
00:11Right. And, you know, you know, that's part of the story.
00:15Yeah. It was the moment that I decided that leadership is not just for extroverted people.
00:22Message.
00:27Shonda Smith.
00:30Baker. Yeah, this is a this is a this is a moment.
00:35This is a moment, but it is a moment that is so indicative of you and I's double decade plus relationship.
00:45Right. Where we've had these opportunities to intersect personally, of course, but professionally.
00:52And and you and I did a podcast as a part of your role at the Minneapolis Foundation,
00:58where we told our life story.
01:00And now I have the wonderful opportunity of sharing with the 31 million black women that call Essence home.
01:07One of the dopest people in my life through the role that I have at Essence.
01:12And I am I am so grateful to be able to do this because I do think that you are I think you're legendary.
01:20I think you're legendary within the city of Minneapolis.
01:24I think you are legendary in a disruptor in in the field of philanthropy.
01:28I think you are legendary in community work.
01:31And so I just I just want to make sure I say that before we do any of the conversation that I couldn't be prouder to be here with you,
01:41my sister and and all that we have been to and through and to be able to have another moment where who we are and what we do connect in a very authentic way is is it's it's it's a moment.
01:53And I am just really grateful for it.
01:56Thank you for joining us, man.
01:58Of course.
01:59And every time we get together, we're like, man, can you believe the journey?
02:04Well, we wouldn't get for our journey now.
02:05And there's some things that will never make the light of day and there's other things we will do to help others avoid our missteps.
02:11And then we will also celebrate the places where we've been able to grow.
02:14So let's start with a really simple question.
02:17But I want you to tell it as if I don't know you.
02:20Who is Shonda?
02:22Man, that's such a great question because Shonda is evolving.
02:26Right.
02:27I'm a woman.
02:30I'm a mother.
02:31I'm a daughter.
02:32I'm a learner.
02:33I'm a student.
02:34And I'm responsible.
02:37I'm irresponsible.
02:40You know, message.
02:42I am perfect and imperfect.
02:46You know, I'm faithful.
02:51And, you know, I am grateful.
02:56Wow.
02:57You you you highlighted one very particular point in there is perfect and imperfect.
03:04I think in what we do within chief to chief, what we represent at essence, we are constantly trying to prove to our community of black women and the community that they live in, that it is OK to be open and transparent about whatever imperfect means in your life.
03:25Right.
03:26You and I have talked about admiring and watching women throughout our career who tell these stories of success that don't seem to have as much emphasis on the trials as they do on the triumph.
03:38And how because we're pretty self-aware and how because we're pretty self-aware and how because we're pretty self-aware and are really aware we're super flawed creatures, we'd be like, so that's not going to happen to me because this little flower ain't going to be able to have that kind of perfect journey.
03:47How do you get how did you get how did you get how did you get to the place where when you are asked the question, who is Shonda, you have one of the answers be I'm imperfect.
04:00How do you get to the place of comfort with that as we figure out how to continue to help the chiefs within the black community understand how OK it is?
04:09It is personally important for me to open up space for other people to leave and I recognize that one of the barriers for me was the idea that I had to be perfect before I took a step.
04:27Yeah.
04:28And there are lots of reasons that I moved into leadership and in doing so, realized through the exposure, right, and through opportunities that were out of my control, right, and in some cases, even more public opportunities to make mistakes that I realized that they didn't break me, but they made me stronger.
04:56That those were the lessons that those were the lessons that I realized what I was built from, that I recognized the strength that I had, that I realized that embedded in leadership, embedded in life, embedded in parenting, embedded in every aspect of life is imperfection and the opportunity to be introspective, to learn, to grow.
05:26And, you know, and, you know, and, you know, and, you know, and, you know, it's sort of the saying without the test, there's no testimony and what's the point of the test if you're not going to bring the testimony.
05:35Yeah.
05:36And so I believe wholeheartedly in that.
05:39And so if I believe in it, then I have a responsibility to share it.
05:44Yeah.
05:45So here, I love that.
05:47And it is so exactly what I expected you to say because I know you and we've lived together.
05:53But I do think there's probably an aspect of that that becomes differently difficult when you are still a leader in a community that has known you since birth, right?
06:06Like you have people who grow up in one place and have experiences and then move somewhere else and have experiences.
06:14And what I choose to believe within that is you get to hide from whatever other people might have said and go over here and pretend to be somebody new, right?
06:22But you have been in the same city and state your entire life.
06:29And I want you to talk about being a Minneapolis born because you've got a strong point of view on how unique that is.
06:34And jokers probably think ain't no more but six black people in Minneapolis anyway.
06:37So I do want you to tell that part of your story.
06:40But every part of Shonda has existed in the same community.
06:45And so the chances that somebody will be like, you weren't always that or you remember when is higher because you are still existing with the same people that have been with you that entire journey.
06:56Talk about the importance of why you are still there because you could have been in many other places, to be clear.
07:03That's not a question to her, y'all.
07:04That's a statement for me.
07:05Shonda could have had the opportunity to be in several other places based on how dope she is and what she does.
07:11But she's chosen to stay in Minneapolis and St. Paul.
07:14Talk about why that's important and how that plays into how you manage that growth and imperfection with the people who have seen the former and the latter in your community.
07:25Yeah.
07:26I mean, you know.
07:29Jokers are petty.
07:31Jokers are petty.
07:32And sometimes you want to go petty with them, right?
07:36Oh, we're not supposed to be fully noted.
07:38It's a test of strength, right?
07:40And it's an opportunity to test your own resolve and who you are right now.
07:47Because you can allow people to take you where they want to take you.
07:51And you have to be clear on who you are and whose you are.
07:57And so it's easy.
07:59I remember just being, you know, church is a good example, right?
08:02You go to church and they're like, you're so-and-so's grandma.
08:05Or they, you know, like, I'll go to church and people still ask me how old I am.
08:09Yeah.
08:09Like, right.
08:10I love that.
08:11Like, you're not grown as hell.
08:13Right?
08:13It's like, man, I got, you know, I'm grown.
08:16I'm grown, grown, right?
08:17And they'll be like, how old are you now?
08:19Right?
08:19Which is just an endearing thing because they knew my grandma and they knew my mother.
08:24And, you know, they still ask my kids that, right?
08:27And that's a very much like they still see me as a child.
08:31Yeah.
08:31And it is hard to reestablish yourself.
08:36It can be hard to reestablish yourself when people still see you as a child and you want
08:42to be seen through their eyes as a leader.
08:45And what I've learned is to accept the way that people see me in all the ways that they
08:55see me and still be clear on how I see myself.
08:58Say that again.
09:00Say that again.
09:01I have learned to accept how people see me and still have resolved on how I see myself.
09:09Mm.
09:12That right there.
09:14That right there.
09:16What does that look like for you?
09:18Oh, man, it was a journey.
09:21Tell us about it.
09:22It was a journey because and you you you just said it.
09:31Because when you're from a place.
09:37And a place that I care deeply about with a lot of people I care, you know, deeply about.
09:42There's lots of room for people to be very proud and there's lots of room for people to
09:48be very disappointed.
09:50Mm hmm.
09:51And you're navigating a lot of opinions about the moves you make.
09:59Navigating a lot of opinions about the moves you make.
10:03So one of my favorite ways to hear you talk about yourself is when you talk about how your
10:11professional life and journey and experiences are tied to how important North Minneapolis
10:19is to you.
10:21And not just to you, but to your family.
10:23And then how the things in Minneapolis have guided quite a bit, honestly, where your career
10:33has navigated to and through.
10:36Can you talk about that and the stages of it, even leading up to the role that you have
10:41now?
10:42And what has been that connection between your community and your career that has guided you
10:48around this community you care a lot about, agnostic of how much people choose to be petty
10:53within it and also choose to celebrate you within?
10:57Yeah.
10:58I mean, you know, it's complicated and it's complicated in the sense that, you know, I'm
11:03fifth generation in North Minneapolis, which is a historic Black community.
11:08It is not like unlike Black communities across the country where Black folks were relegated because
11:15of housing policy, you know, a neighborhood that has high crime, where, you know, the ghetto
11:22exists, if you want to call it that here, right?
11:26It looks very different than Chicago and some of the other places, but where the disparities
11:31are highest, where some communities are afraid to go to.
11:36Um, it's also a place where there is rich history and very, um, brilliant, there's brilliance,
11:45there's opportunity, um, it's layered and my family has been invested here for a long
11:51time and I still live here and I get celebrated for living here and I get judged for living here.
12:00And I was informed by this place.
12:06I was raised by this place.
12:08I was nurtured in this community and the way people have seen it was not my experience.
12:15I wasn't afraid of this neighborhood.
12:18I was raised by this neighborhood.
12:20I'm rooted here.
12:21I don't live here.
12:22I have roots here.
12:23I have generational roots and families that have known my family for generations that I've
12:32been able to navigate because others have navigated here that because I know the people
12:40up the street, they know my kids because their kids knew me and there's a community that has
12:48allowed for me to be me.
12:50Yeah.
12:50And it works for me.
12:52And so when I was growing up, my mother who passed away in 2020, my, I know my mother
13:00would say to me, a community is a place that you invest in, not move from say that again.
13:07A community is a place you invest in, not move from now that stayed with me.
13:16Right.
13:16And I believe that you can do that in the way that I've done it to this point.
13:22By staying, literally staying, but I believe you can do that by staying, by investing your
13:31philanthropy, by investing your energies in a place, by not moving your heart and your
13:37actions and your intentionality away from it, even if you don't live there.
13:41Right.
13:42Mm hmm.
13:42Mm hmm.
13:43But it also has informed me because the way in which people talk about a people in a neighborhood.
13:51Mm hmm.
13:51Mm hmm.
13:53Right.
13:53I heard how people talked about the neighborhood when I was a child and it was very different
14:00than my experience of it.
14:02And I remember thinking, man, do I need someone to disrupt my experience so I don't end up dead
14:10or in jail?
14:11Do I need someone to disrupt me so that I don't end up in a bad place?
14:16Hmm.
14:17Like, is my life as bad as people say it is?
14:20Hmm.
14:21And I remember feeling like the narrative for which this is being described is different
14:27than how the people that live here describe it.
14:31Who gets to tell the story?
14:34So I have built most my entire career has been fundamentally about
14:40sharing and identifying and responding to the multiple narratives that exist within community.
14:48How has that then driven your career path from and this is just because I know right from in-home
14:59daycare provider?
15:00I forgot about that kind of.
15:02I know we all we all have like those lives.
15:05Right.
15:05But from but but from in-home daycare provider, because we got to tell people to host.
15:10To SVP of community impact with the Minneapolis Foundation in a city that got on the map for
15:20a moment, that was a different kind of moment for this community.
15:25So how has this idea of shaping your career around that played out from in-home daycare
15:31provider to where you are right now?
15:35You know, I mean, I am grateful.
15:38Right.
15:39I am grateful for the community that poured into me and the people that always nurtured
15:44the possibilities in me.
15:47I stayed consistent.
15:48Um, the parents that believed in me, the family that believed in me, my church community that
15:55believed in me.
15:56When I did daycare, it was because I got married young and had kids young.
16:01Mm hmm.
16:02Right.
16:03And I've always been a person that like wherever you at, you got to make the best of it.
16:08And I made the best of it.
16:09Like my responsibility at that point was to make it work.
16:14I'm going to have this baby.
16:17I'm going to have this baby.
16:18I'm going to be the best I can be at being his mother.
16:21Mm hmm.
16:21And I'm going to build this home business.
16:25And so I did that.
16:27And I wrote me a grant.
16:29Wrote me a grant.
16:31That's going to be the name of your autobiography.
16:33I wrote me a grant.
16:35And that was about as sophisticated as I was at that moment.
16:38I'm going to write me a grant.
16:39It's clear.
16:41It's so clear.
16:42And I'm going to bring some other babies in here.
16:45And I'm going to start a business.
16:47And I started a child care business and took babies in and started working on child care
16:53policy and did that until my oldest went to school and started getting involved in child
17:02care policy that led me to working in early child care business.
17:09That led me to looking at how do we make access for families that can't afford it.
17:16That then brought me into policy at Hennepin County.
17:19And then I said, oh, I can go a little bit bigger than this.
17:23Then I got divorced.
17:24I'm like, I need a little bit more than that.
17:30I need a little bit more than that.
17:34Your second book is going to be called.
17:36I need a little bit more than that.
17:37I need a little bit more than that.
17:38Yep.
17:39Yep.
17:39So I've had these, um, intersections with life events and opportunity that have coincided
17:51that have pushed me personally because I needed to, I had to, and that I had to like, get
18:01it together and pony up and find it.
18:03So how do you go from what you were doing with early childhood policy, all of that, and then
18:11you start to play different leadership roles in community organizations?
18:16What, what community moment, what, what community moment, what, what community moment, life moment did that transition?
18:21I was now single parenting.
18:24And, um, I, I was a non-traditional student like you.
18:29Um, and life transition, uh, transitioning three kids and I need to go to school.
18:40I need to finish my degree.
18:42And I applied for a role that said, um, and I was running into, cause I, in home childcare, you don't need a degree.
18:55You just need grit.
18:57You don't need a degree.
18:58You just need grit.
18:59Book number three people.
19:02Book number three.
19:03You don't need a degree.
19:05You need grit.
19:05You need some grit.
19:06Now, some of these jokers are going to put S's on it.
19:09This is not grits.
19:12It's grit.
19:14Continue.
19:16So I applied for the role.
19:20They called me up.
19:21Did you mean to apply for this other role?
19:23Did you mean to apply?
19:25I did not.
19:27Well, this one requires a degree.
19:29I said, I understand, but I also understand you need someone that can get the job done.
19:35And I can do that.
19:37So you need to decide if you also need me to have the degree because I can actually get the job done.
19:43Mm-hmm.
19:45Mm-hmm.
19:45And I know that without the single responsibility of caring for the three of them, that boldness would not have existed in the way that it did.
19:59But because I had some additional responsibilities, I had some additional boldness.
20:04Yeah.
20:04And they called me back.
20:07And so I got that job and went and I was working full-time running a neighborhood center and working on that degree full-time at night and the weekends.
20:18I finished it and went on to get my master's.
20:21And then I got that master's and I'm like, well, I did all this work now.
20:23So I need, I need a bigger job because I did too much work.
20:29So what's next?
20:31Yep.
20:32And what work do I need to do because, because I was, I could feel myself getting in my own way.
20:42So I was moving, Caroline, finishing the degree, but still being very reserved around what I saw as possibility for me.
20:54Yeah.
20:56Right.
20:56Yeah.
20:56Yeah.
20:56And, you know, still seeking what, seeking the balance of what I felt was possible for me and what I thought I could do.
21:09I was trying to fill that gap, right, between what people were encouraging me to do and what I thought was available for me to do.
21:19Yeah.
21:19And I, and I, and I had moments in there of, I don't know.
21:24I just don't know.
21:25So you're, you're in these critical leadership roles within the nonprofit world.
21:34And you're now on the other side of it, giving the money away ish.
21:43Let's talk about what that transition was about.
21:46What put you in a place where an opportunity like that played a role in that place you were of, I don't know.
21:58Yeah, I was in a very exciting place in my life.
22:03I was the CEO of a very successful nonprofit.
22:09I was opening up a health and wellness integrated grocery store in North Minneapolis.
22:14In a food desert.
22:15In a food desert.
22:17I should have been in a professional high and I was, but I felt flat.
22:24Hmm.
22:25Why?
22:26I don't know.
22:28Okay.
22:31I don't know.
22:33I don't know if it was burnout.
22:34I don't know if it was the spirit saying it was time for me to transition and I was fighting it.
22:41Um, I still haven't been able to fully, um, articulate what the moment was, but the opportunity to go to the Minneapolis foundation presented itself.
22:51Um, and honestly, I was like, no, I don't think the time is right.
22:57I think I have some unfinished business and, um, decided ultimately to, to make the move over to the foundation.
23:06And, um, I'm very glad I did.
23:09It was, it was challenging.
23:10I, I, you know, it was hard, but I'm glad that I came there and it has allowed me to do what I think.
23:17And my other thing is, which is to, um, work hard to create opportunities for others to be successful.
23:25The role you are in at the Minneapolis foundation as chief impact officer, what is that role responsible for?
23:35And why is it important for a place like a foundation that cuts checks essentially to have a role like that?
23:42And why then was it important for you to step into that role?
23:48Yeah, I realized the importance now more than ever of the visibility of me in that role, particularly with the background I have in this city.
24:01And based on my history that we talked about in North Minneapolis, um, philanthropy that has not always been accessible.
24:10And certainly that has not always had, uh, women, black women, people of color, invisible leadership roles.
24:19Um, in a moment of crisis in our city, like we have seen, if people didn't know black people lived here before they knew finally 2020, um, they have seen our plane and, um, our actions on display on a global level.
24:36Um, um, for me to be able to respond, um, in a way of knowing versus a place of trying to understand was important for me to be able to be networked in a way to be able to respond quickly.
24:58Um, since I arrived, not since George Floyd's murder, we're going to talk about that in a sec.
25:06Yep.
25:06Um, has been important.
25:09The role is beyond giving out money, right?
25:13Philanthropy, um, is so much more than that.
25:17Philanthropy is about leveraging power to build power for people that have been left out of the equation.
25:25Yeah, it is about creating opportunity to make systems change.
25:33It is about convening.
25:35It is about using, um, every lever for change that is possible to further equity and justice.
25:46And that's exactly what I am doing at the Minneapolis foundation.
25:50But you have embedded yourself beyond your work in the Minneapolis foundation and issues of community policing, right?
26:01And the safety of black community in the relationship with police.
26:07And I want you to talk about some of the, the councils and task force and advisory boards you're on.
26:15Um, but that, that is something I want you to talk about because Minneapolis went onto the national stage differently in the George Floyd moment.
26:25What got revealed in that is some stuff that Minneapolis already was dealing with.
26:30That's right.
26:31But the rest of the world was getting introduced to it in a moment differently because of his murder.
26:36And they haven't stopped.
26:39Black men are dying in Minneapolis with police encounters.
26:45Yeah.
26:45You lost a cousin.
26:47That's right.
26:48In community.
26:49And that ignited a different fire in you around community and policing and what does this look like?
26:59So talk about that moment.
27:00Talk about the George Floyd moment from your eyes.
27:04Yeah.
27:04And what is happening now and what you want people to know about the journey that the Twin Cities is on.
27:12Yeah.
27:12May 11th, 2011, my cousin, Christopher Calvin Miller was murdered.
27:22He had just graduated from the police academy.
27:26He was murdered by someone that I went to school with.
27:31It was complicated.
27:34Yeah.
27:37It was devastating.
27:40It was the first week of me being the president and CEO of the organization that I mentioned.
27:49This is what I'm talking about.
27:50The convergence of life.
27:52Yes.
27:52Yes.
27:53Enroll.
27:54Professional high, personal low.
27:56Yep.
27:56Yep.
27:57I had to find professional high, personal low.
27:59I had to find the credit.
28:00Yep.
28:02And I decided at that point, I would never not work on community safety and issues of policing.
28:11I got involved in policing and police reform at that moment.
28:15Because the sergeant or the investigator on his case, Chris Arneson, I got to be in relationship with her through that trial.
28:27And then she invited me to sit on a steering committee when DOJ came in to do a look at MPD, the Minneapolis Police Department.
28:37And so from that point forward, I was engaged in policing.
28:40When I came to the Minneapolis Foundation, I came on two conditions.
28:45I could work on public safety and criminal justice reform.
28:50So they approved that.
28:54So I started a fund, the Fund for Safe Communities, that looked at criminal justice reform, reducing or improving safety, reducing violence and mental health and wellness in our brown and black communities.
29:11So that fund has been started in 2019, we funded police deadly force task team that was co-chaired by our attorney general, Keith Ellison, and our commissioner of public safety, John Harrington, to look at police deadly encounters, to look at ways in which we could reduce it.
29:34We came up with 60 plus recommendations to do that, those recommendations came out in March of 2020, and then George Floyd's murder happened in May of 2020.
29:48George Floyd was murdered two days before that.
29:54My mother came home for hospice.
29:57So again, this convergence of community pain and personal pain.
30:01Yep.
30:02And, you know, I have a role where I had to show up.
30:06I have roles in which I have to show up.
30:10And, and again, you know, you have to dig deep and figure out how to continue to do that work.
30:18And there was something about him calling for his mother in that moment that had me understand the importance even more.
30:29Or, of why I needed to be in that role.
30:33And it, it's made me understand even more deeply why I need to stay in this work of criminal justice reform.
30:42So right now I'm sitting on a committee, the mayor, looking at how we continue to look at police reform.
30:51I'm working with NYU, the policing project on reimagining public safety.
30:56I'm on the committee to select a new police chief.
31:03I'm sitting in multiple tables.
31:06And I'm there to learn.
31:08I am there to represent this community in the very best way that I can.
31:13And I'm there to make a difference in a way that I know will not be satisfying to everyone.
31:24And that's what we started with, right?
31:26Like, I know what will be disappointing.
31:27I know that there will be critics.
31:29But I know that every time I show up, I'm bringing all that I know about this community to the table.
31:37And I will represent the very best I got on what I know every second that I sit there.
31:45I know everything you said, and I'm still in awe every time I hear you talk about all the places where, through grit and greatness, you sit.
32:00And I'm so proud of you.
32:02I just, I'll keep saying that over and over again.
32:05And as a friend, but as a fellow Black woman, as an admirer, as a peer, as a mentee, all of that, I just continue to be so proud of you.
32:17And part of what your story just said was what made me start Chief to Chief.
32:25As Corey and I were having this conversation about this brand and what is the way in which the consumer should interact with this role.
32:35And the goal was to feature the chiefs that live amongst us so that all of us can see the different ways in which we can activate what the strength of being chief of home community and culture can create for home community and culture.
32:54And whether you're in the C-suite of a corporate office, whether you're sitting at leadership of community impact, whether you are the grandmother of community, the idea is that we inspire people to look for where theirs is and activate it.
33:12And what you just did, even in that last part, is why I consider you to be one of the best chiefs in community, because you are embedded and you are embedded in the bed you were born in.
33:26And I think that's dope and courageous and important.
33:32And it goes back to what your mother said to you.
33:36Community is not a place you leave.
33:39It's a place you invest in.
33:42So with all that you've done, and by the way, you are the mother of how many boys?
33:47Four.
33:48Four boys, one girl.
33:50One girl.
33:51When you think about what are one or two moments you are most proud of in this community and life convergence that has always been a present theme for you, what are some of your proudest moments and why?
34:12Yeah, I mean, obviously, for me, it's the kids, right?
34:16Like you bring them up, right?
34:17Like all the stages of parenting that I've gone through, I just look at them and they're all so different.
34:24And I'm really proud of the people that they are and who they're becoming and the level of independence that they have, that they don't feel like they have to be who I want them to be.
34:38They can be who they are confidently.
34:43That is an honor for me to have nurtured that.
34:46Yeah.
34:46Um, I am very proud of the podcast.
34:52I want you to talk about that.
34:54I'm very, very proud of the podcast, um, Conversations with Shonda, um, because it is the creative output for me at the foundation that allows me to have the grittier conversations that are not popular.
35:10Uh, in the field of philanthropy, uh, in the field of philanthropy that I can talk about decolonizing wealth to, um, what is happening to our brown and black communities to the challenges of being black and leadership.
35:25And I can do that and I can do that and be myself and bring leaders in.
35:30Um, I'm, I'm very proud of creating a space to learn and to change worldview and hopefully change the way that people, um, interact with each other in the way that they invest.
35:43Um, and I am quite proud of changing who sees the Minneapolis foundation, um, how they see it, right?
36:02That a community foundation should be a foundation for everyone.
36:07And we're not quite there, but we're further along as a result of me being here.
36:14Leaving the baton further ahead than where you picked it up.
36:17I'm going to ask you about a moment that I distinctly remember because we were talking about it and it was a moment of pride for you when you were featured in the Chronicles of Philanthropy.
36:27Tell me why that moment was so important for you.
36:32Oh, you know, so I had this, I had a moment and, uh, I was very networked in the nonprofit world, right?
36:48I go to a conference, people knew me.
36:50I felt very confident in my nonprofit leadership.
36:52I had ascended to being the president and CEO of an organization that was established.
36:59So I come over to philanthropy and it's like, wait, I don't even know where the bathroom is.
37:04Right.
37:05Right.
37:05Right.
37:06A little bit like coming over to media when you're a retail girl, but.
37:09Right.
37:09Okay.
37:10So you're like.
37:10That's neither here nor that.
37:12Yeah.
37:12And, um, and I thought, you know, man, I wonder whether or not I will ever be established in this space.
37:22And I remember writing down on the back of a postcard that like, how will I know I will, that I've made a difference, right?
37:30Like part of my thing is, you know, so if I was ever identified as being sort of an innovator in the space in a national chronicle of philanthropy.
37:40So I was mentioned as a groundbreaker in the chronicle of philanthropy.
37:48Yes, you were.
37:49I was.
37:50And it was a moment for me.
37:53It was a reinforcement that I found my place.
37:59That, um, it seems non-material, but it was super important validation for me.
38:08Yeah.
38:09It is framed right here.
38:11It says, um, meet the innovators.
38:13It was in the chronicle of philanthropy.
38:15And I think it's 2019.
38:17And, um, I framed it because when I feel like it is too tough, right?
38:30When the George Floyd moment comes or the Dante Wright or the Amir locks and the pain converges, um, I look at that and I'm like, this is why you're here.
38:49It's not for the moments that are shiny and easy.
38:52It's for the moments that are actually the toughest.
38:55Yeah.
38:56Because that's where it really matters.
38:59Yep.
39:00Um, it's when it's the most difficult.
39:05Yeah.
39:06And there's a lot of really challenging days ahead of us if we want our community to be what it should be for all of us.
39:14And what I love about that is often we don't give ourselves permission to celebrate.
39:20Yeah.
39:20And what celebrate means can be different.
39:22This was the celebration of something that affirmed and gave you a moment that helped you define when I believe I have been dot, dot, dot.
39:33A lot of us are, feel self-pressured to minimize that because we're supposed to be humble.
39:40Right.
39:41But what you just talked about is celebration isn't just the celebration of achievement.
39:46It's the fuel when the fire gets real, real hot.
39:49Oh, it was both.
39:50It was both.
39:51Look, I had seen that.
39:52It came out.
39:52They interviewed me.
39:53I was like, okay.
39:55Yeah.
39:55I named it.
39:56I'm here.
39:57Yep.
39:58Okay.
39:58This is it.
39:59This is it.
40:00And, and let me let this moment fuel me when I need it.
40:06Let me let it play its role.
40:07So last question for you before we close.
40:11This, and you heard me talk about the intent behind this Chief to Chief series is to help the community we engage with see the chief in themselves and activate it through the lens of what they were born to do.
40:23So as I think about you as chief of many things, from friendship to community, to philanthropy, for those that are listening and in different stages of figuring out the chief thing they're going to bring to life from the seat that they're in with the impact they can make.
40:44What would be a couple of advice you would leave with them based on your experiences holistically?
40:54Discover the chief in you, right?
40:56To celebrate who you are.
41:00We are in a culture that can lead you to comparison that would allow you to diminish your own shine, right?
41:13Like I'm sort of an introverted, shy person that I've had to work very hard at pushing outside of my own zone, right?
41:26And, you know, you know, you know, that's part of the story.
41:29Yep.
41:30It was the moment that I decided that leadership is not just for extroverted people.
41:36Message.
41:38That allowed for me to understand how my shine looks.
41:43Yeah.
41:44And so, you know, I've said some of them, right?
41:48Like imperfection is actually so perfect.
41:54It's freeing.
41:56It allows for the chief in you to glow brighter.
42:01Right?
42:02Comparison is the devil.
42:07And you never know who you are inspiring by just being you.
42:14Place your bet on you.
42:18There's a quote that I use that ties to the way you close that, which is,
42:23Love is not about loving the perfect person.
42:26It's about loving the imperfect person perfectly.
42:29And I think that whether you replace the word person with community,
42:33whether you replace the word person with family,
42:37where you replace the word person with mission,
42:40you are a living and breathing example of the perfect love,
42:48self-love, community love, professional love,
42:53that I hope that everybody is able to find within themselves.
42:59And I appreciate the perfect love.
43:01You showed me the imperfect friend.
43:03And I'm so proud of you.
43:08And so glad we have an opportunity to demonstrate how bright your light is
43:14with a new community of folks that may not know,
43:18but will now never forget Shonda Smith Baker,
43:21legend of the Twin Cities, chief of community.
43:26Thank you for today.
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