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00:00Welcome back to the Essence Hollywood House.
00:07I'm your host, Storm Reid.
00:08So, this next panel is shining a light on the success of Black British creatives in film and television
00:15and the worldwide love fest with Shonda Rhimes' Netflix debut, Bridgerton.
00:22The conversation will also explore the importance of championing global Black narratives.
00:28Let's get into it.
00:30Good evening, everyone.
00:37I hope you all are enjoying the second annual Essence Hollywood House so far.
00:42I'm Chris Witherspoon, entertainment journalist and founder and CEO of the newly launched PopViewers app,
00:48where you can discover what to watch next and find a community just for you around the content that you love.
00:53Tonight, we'll be talking about the success of Black British creatives in film and television.
00:58We'll also be exploring the journey thus far towards a more globally inclusive Hollywood that better reflects a diverse range of Black experiences and champions global Black narratives.
01:11I'm excited about these folks we'll be talking to. Joining me tonight is a British actor who got his start at age 12 and has over 20 years in the business.
01:18Currently, he stars as Aaron Wallace on ABC's hit drama, For Life, which is loosely based on a true story of Isaac Wright Jr.
01:25Please welcome Nicholas Pinnock. And now, unless you've been living under a rock, you've seen the world, you've seen how the world has fallen in love with Shonda Rhimes' debut Netflix series, Bridgerton.
01:38And since you've probably become just as big of a fan as I have, these two ladies joining me tonight truly need no introduction.
01:45Our first panelist is a Guyanese British actress and singer who has over 20 years in the business and is widely known for her work in theater.
01:54Please welcome Bridgerton's Queen Charlotte, Gouda Rocheval.
01:58Hey!
01:59Our next panelist is a British actress who has over 30 years in the business and is widely known for her work in theater as well as television.
02:08Please welcome Bridgerton's Lady Danbury, Ajoah Ando.
02:13Okay, so thank you all for joining us tonight. I'm a fan of all of your work. I'm going to be wearing a little hat as a tribute to Lady Danbury.
02:20Let's jump right into our chat. First off, I want to start, and I want to ask you, all three of you, to tell me how you would describe the ship that's happening.
02:29Right now, with black British creatives in Hollywood shining as stars in so many film and TV roles.
02:36Ajoah, I think I'll start with you.
02:39Okay. Well, I think there's a shift in the, in the, in the, in the zeitgeist at the moment.
02:46I think, you know, with the murder of George Floyd, I think for lots of black people, of African heritage,
02:59and not only, but other people of color as well. There's been a just, we're done in the midst of the pandemic.
03:06We're done. Everybody is just saying what they feel about things.
03:10And I think that's also playing into the zeitgeist of how people are responding creatively.
03:15So I think something that's been happening, you know, in a, in a, in a pace that's growing and growing and growing is just flowing now.
03:24And, and so I think, you know, Nicholas Golder and I are part of that outworking.
03:30But I was just, I was just off the top of my head. I was just, you know, I was just thinking about actors of color off the top of my, of my head.
03:40And there are, there are a ton of people, you know, even if you want to go back as, you know, to sort of Delroy Lindo,
03:49who was Lewish and Bourne or Joe Marcel, who was in the Fresh Prince of Blair, coming forward, Tandu A. Newton,
03:57C. O'Connor, David Oyelowo, Jussel, it's just like, and then the new people, Daniel Kalua, there's Cynthia Erivo, Marianne John-Baptiste.
04:07There's a whole roll call, Patterson Joseph, you know, I could go on and I know I'm forgetting loads and loads of people.
04:13But there's, there's a, there's a whole roll call of people involved.
04:16And then you have the, the beautiful directors like Amma Asante as well.
04:21John, John, a contra. So there's, um, yeah, there's a, there's, um, it's, it's on, it's on a roll now.
04:27Um, and I, and I think it's, I think it's really exciting, but I just feel British black actors,
04:33we're all just, everybody's just sort of going, ah, come on, we're going to push out now.
04:37And we're going to push to wherever we want to go. And it's, it's fabulous. It's exciting. Yeah.
04:43It really is. Uh, I'll, I'll give you an opportunity as well, uh, Nicholas and Golda to also answer that question.
04:49I can't really add much to that. It's been, you know, it's been building for so long that it was only a matter of time before,
05:00you know, if I'm expressing the damn first and things just expanded and moved in that direction,
05:08but it's, you know, it's also clear that, you know, as British actors, black or other,
05:13America has always been somewhere to actually stretch. And because, you know, you have more TV channels,
05:19you have more content than we do. So it's just a natural progression among that.
05:24The, you know, people of color in this country have been able to go there and we've been peppered there for decades and decades and decades.
05:32It's just, there is more and more and more of us now. And, you know, so much so that it's, it's, I don't think it's a thing anymore.
05:42It's just, you know, it is what it is because there's no stopping it now.
05:47Yeah. It's just, it's just a part of the fabric of what's happening with, you know, television and film in, in Hollywood.
05:55And Golda, we, you know, when I introduced you, I talk about how early, you know, you, you have decades of work behind you,
06:01on stage, on screen. Was it difficult for you to be an actress of color, say, 15, 20 years ago?
06:10Um, or, or, or was it, was there momentum there as well for roles?
06:15Um, I would say no, but I also would say that I was happy to be pigeonholed.
06:23I was happy to play the stereotypes, but I think ultimately that leads to a very frustrated actor in, you know, an industry that is not, um, seeing them.
06:35Um, and is not welcoming, you know, to their craft and what they're capable of doing.
06:43So I think the shift had to happen for me personally, you know, I can't change anybody's ideas or perspective.
06:52You know, I had to find a way to understand how the industry perceived me as a black actress.
07:01So then that led to me saying no to the social worker with one line.
07:07And then ultimately saying yes to the social worker who had a scene in a one part drama.
07:14Saying no to the young black mom who had a young, you know, black wayward child who had one scene in a three part drama.
07:24And saying yes to the storyline that was the young black mom with young black wayward child, you know, and that grew my self worth.
07:37And, um, ultimately led me down the road to playing the queen of England in Netflix biggest drama in 2021.
07:46Wow.
07:47I mean, you brought me there.
07:50You brought me to the show.
07:51It was later in my questions, but I'm gonna go there now.
07:53So I think it's hearing what you just said about being happy, um, at one point in your career to be pigeonholed, to play the stereotypical, uh, role to be having work.
08:03You were happy.
08:04Yeah.
08:05And, and, and that's all that was being offered to me as a black actress.
08:10I wanted to work.
08:11Yeah.
08:12You know, but it was interesting.
08:14As I say, that leads to frustration because if that's all you're being offered, how do you progress?
08:22How do you, you know, bang down the door?
08:25And that led to a shift in my idea and a shift in the understanding of the industry and how it sees black artists.
08:36And I'm really pleased that in, in, you know, you said creatives, because I think that's really important.
08:42It's not just black actors, it's directors, it's writers, it's photographers, it's artists, you know?
08:50And I think, you know, Adjua is, is so put it so beautifully.
08:54The dam has burst or Nicholas said, you know, the dam has burst now for all of those creatives to play a part, to have space in this industry.
09:05Yeah.
09:06Yeah.
09:07And I want to ask both of you, Adjua and Golda, to be on a show like Bridgerton, where, you know, when I look at it, I look at colorblind casting in my mind, because you're seeing a black queen.
09:20Oh, no.
09:21Okay.
09:22No, correct me.
09:23Correct me.
09:24Adjua, correct me.
09:25No, I am playing this color.
09:28Yeah.
09:29My black face is in that scene.
09:32Okay.
09:33The queen of England was descended from an African, Charlotte was descended from Alfonso III of Portugal, and an African woman.
09:41Yeah.
09:42It was really common in the Portuguese and Spanish royal families.
09:47And she went through that, her lineage went through that whole lineage, right up into the lineage of the more Germanic-based royal families, who were always marrying into the Hanoverians, which Queen Charlotte's husband, George III did.
10:04So, Queen Charlotte is mixed race.
10:05When she was born, they complained about her mulatto appearance.
10:10When she came to England, they complained about her ugly, thick lips and her wide nose.
10:16They knew who she was, that she's been painted out of history.
10:19So, for me, that, I mean, this show is not a documentary, obviously.
10:24It's like, on steroids, it's like psychedelic, wow, Regency.
10:30But, the truth of the matter is, Queen Charlotte was of African heritage.
10:36So, we have to just nail that one right there.
10:39And there were people like Chevalier Saint-Georges, who was the court composer to Marie Antoinette in the French court, before Mozart.
10:51People called Mozart the young Chevalier Saint-Georges, who was the son of a French nobleman and a black enslaved African woman.
11:02And he was, he was like, he was the sexiest thing on two legs.
11:08He composed amazing music.
11:09He was a great duelist.
11:12He was at the head of the French court at the time that Lady Danbury would have been a young woman.
11:18He would have been, you know, he would have been the pop star.
11:21He would have been the, I don't know, for me, the Michael Jackson of her day, you know, in terms of his brilliance and creativity.
11:27So, these characters existed.
11:29A fifth of the British Navy was African.
11:31There were 20,000 free black people in London, not even in Britain, in London at the time of our show.
11:38So, for me, our show is an entertainment, you can watch it as a rom com, you can watch it as anything you like, but it's also folding that awareness of the multifaceted nature of what the society was made up of, in terms of its race, in terms of its attention to women's rights, in terms of its sexuality.
12:00All that stuff has always been there.
12:02And the show is just pulling it all back in, in a rollercoaster of, well, they won't lay his or nice rock, look at that building.
12:08Do you know what I mean?
12:09So, I'm ixnaying on the colorblind casting, because I'm not blind to my color, and I don't want anyone in the audience to be blind to my color either.
12:19I just want you to come and go, and we've always been here.
12:23Oh, I love that, I love that. And why do you think the show has been this global phenomenon?
12:30Golda?
12:32Well, I think, you know, unfortunately, the pandemic has a lot to do with it. You know, human beings have been starved of an outlet of escapism, of creativity, cinemas, theatre, you know, I know, you know, going out, being in the pub, having a drink.
12:51So, I think Bridgerton landed dropped at a time when people were just desperate for something to energize them, to entertain them.
13:03And I think with a genre that they were comfortable with, you know, within that comfort, I think, grew the space for the newness of, you know, black and brown people being on the same screen, on screen.
13:21You know, I think a lot of education can be done when people are comfortable.
13:27And I think, you know, it was celebrated, us as a people, as artists, as creatives, and I think in a genre that, yeah, that we all know and love.
13:43Okay, okay. And I feel that when I watch it, I feel that. So, yes. Nicholas, you know, I'm a huge fan of your show. And it's based on a real life story of a black man who's wrongfully convicted and incarcerated.
13:59And I feel like it's just so timely right now, especially in the United States, your show. How does it feel to step into that role with all this happening in the country right now?
14:11It feels good to, you know, represent a community that has dealt with injustice for so long, first and foremost, but also to highlight how the injustices of one demographic compared to other demographics within that same society are being singled out and marginalized.
14:34You know, people talk about race relations. Now, I kind of don't, I don't buy into the word or the term racism or racist purely because racism was an ideology designed to justify slavery, but there's no medical or science to prove that we are all different races.
14:51So we are not segregated. We are not separate. It was something that was designed for us. And we just kind of accepted. What's happening in America is the same is very specific to black people right now.
15:02And so that's anti-blackness. And so to be in a show that is highlighting the specificity of, you know, what's happening to certain people in the community is great.
15:16And through that, the ripple effect of other people understanding where they can identify because it is a, it does happen mainly to black people, but it's not a black problem.
15:31It's a people problem, which is why I have people across the globe, you know, emailing me or getting into my DMs, you know, constantly letting me know.
15:47I mean, I've got people in Brazil, Germany, Sweden, Africa, you know, telling me that they can identify in some way and this happened to an uncle of theirs or this happened to a cousin or this happened to me.
16:00And so it's got such a wide appeal. Yeah. And so to step into that role and have that representation, I don't feel like I'm just representing black people.
16:12I kind of feel like Aaron Wallace and the guy who the show is inspired by an awesome guy, Isaac Wright Jr.
16:20He represents people and it's about injustice and the injustices that happen to people.
16:26And it's, it's a great responsibility. And I think with television being what it is today and with Adjua and Golda talking about how they are folding the reality of what actually really happened into society.
16:40It's an education more than just entertainment. I think that's what we are all doing right now. We're not just entertaining people.
16:48It's not just a show to pass the time where people are learning stuff.
16:52Oh, my God. Educated by what we're doing and they are testing their sense of morality by understanding things that they had no idea about before.
17:01I think it's a real. So I feel really honored and privileged to have been given the opportunity to take up that mantle to show people how things really are.
17:11Yeah. And you mentioned the word representation, Nicholas.
17:15And I think about some of the black actors that I've, the black British actors that I've interviewed, Daniel Kaluuya and Gugu Mbaccarat, Idris Elba.
17:25And I think about you now, you know, as being this representation, representation matters so much, all three of you.
17:31And I read or I think I watched the interview you gave, Nicholas, where you said at four years old, you knew you wanted to be doing what you're doing.
17:38You knew you wanted to be an actor. I remember the day I decided.
17:41Yeah. Was there black British representation for male actors back then to the magnitude that we have now?
17:48I mean, that was the late seventies. There were, and here's, here's something very, very interesting.
17:53We had more black people on television in the seventies than we did in the early two thousands.
18:02And that's probably more than we do now. That is the truth of it.
18:06They were not in leading roles. They were not in roles of position and power,
18:13but there were more faces back in the seventies than there were then.
18:18So for me, I mean, and back then we used to play a game whenever we saw someone on TV going,
18:23Oh, spot the black man.
18:25Spot the black person.
18:27Quit, quit.
18:29Come on.
18:31Yeah.
18:33Right. So exactly.
18:35So when you consider that that's what we were doing back then,
18:39and there were more faces, you kind of go, well, what's kind of happened now?
18:45How come there are less faces?
18:47So although there are less faces, there are more prominent faces and there weren't stars
18:52and people in positions like, you know, the ladies we have in the room today,
18:56like they were then, but there were more faces.
18:58But now with there are less faces, but they are so much more powerful and they are so
19:02much more prominent and they are so much more at the forefront than they've ever been.
19:06So that for my four year old, if they were alive now, it would be, you know,
19:11far more interesting to, to watch.
19:13But I also, you know, I think same as Golder.
19:17I never really felt like I had suffered as a, as an actor of color in this country moving forward,
19:25because, you know, I, I often tell a story about when I first went to, you know, stage school
19:32and I first started acting at the age of 12.
19:34I remember in 1986, I was, you would stay up late and watch this program that I knew had revolutionized television.
19:42There was an actor on there that I saw and I thought, oh my gosh, I need to be like him.
19:47And, you know, there was something about the way he works and all this kinds of stuff that I just knew.
19:55And he was singing and there was like, you know, these skits.
19:58And it was an outlandish program called the singing detective.
20:03Yeah.
20:04Right.
20:06Look at that.
20:07And people go, who is it?
20:08Who is it?
20:09Who is it?
20:10And when I tell them who it is, they all go, oh, because they're disappointed.
20:14That it's somebody, it's somebody not of color.
20:18Yeah.
20:19Actually, I, what I, what I say to them is, I didn't look at the person's color.
20:23I looked at the person's greatness.
20:25Yes.
20:26I didn't want to be a great black actor.
20:29I wanted to be a great actor.
20:31Brilliant.
20:32Cheers.
20:33My inspiration was greatness, color.
20:36And that person was Michael Gambler.
20:38Yeah.
20:39Great.
20:40And so you took that thing to, you have to see it to be it.
20:43I understand it, but it wasn't for me.
20:45And I don't know if that's what we should be teaching the next generation.
20:49Actually, follow greatness.
20:50I have a mentor who is a woman and it's not a man.
20:54So, you know, what am I following?
20:56I'm following someone who I believe is great.
20:58And I think it's important that we shine, that we highlight, that we look toward greatness
21:04and everything else is, you know, not irrelevant, but it's not the most important thing.
21:09Wow.
21:10Yeah.
21:11I want all of it.
21:14I want, I want, I do want to see it to be it.
21:17I do want to see it and then I want it to be great.
21:20Wow.
21:21You know.
21:22Yes.
21:23You know, it's like, you know, what, what, what are the things that I love about, about Spike
21:30these works beyond the, the rep, the, the representation.
21:35I love the scores.
21:37Those great Bill Lee, Terence Blanchard scores.
21:41I love that shot that he invented, you know, the one with the steady cam.
21:45Yeah.
21:46That is, that is like, that is an invention.
21:49That's him.
21:50You know, I love his cinematography.
21:52There's, there's, there's, there's, and that's, and that's actually, that's about his pure artistry.
21:57That's, that's a person as an artistry.
21:59Yeah.
22:00Yeah.
22:01So I, I kind of, I want it all.
22:02I, I admit, give me it all.
22:04And we should be able to have it all.
22:05We should be able to have it all.
22:07I mean, I think the thing that we're, we're all, we're all, I think what the, the freedom
22:14is going to be, because I know at the moment there is still a thing and maybe this is my father in my
22:19head, but there is, you know, all, all the stuff that we've been raised with of, you have to be twice as good.
22:25You know, you can't be, you have to be better in order to be equal.
22:30Um, uh, and so, you know, I, I know when we did our all women of color, Richard the second at the globe,
22:37you know, I was like, nobody can mess up on this show.
22:41You've all got to be brilliant because we put a marker down and we said women of color can do everything.
22:48So now we have to do everything on point the whole time.
22:51And I think what, for me, the ideal will be where is when we have space to fail.
22:57Fail.
22:58Hmm.
22:59And when there, when there is enough of us that we can just try stuff.
23:03Sometimes it'll work.
23:04Sometimes it won't.
23:05And there's no pressure that everything has to be.
23:09And that is, that is the quality that we should be heading for.
23:12Absolutely.
23:13Yeah.
23:14Let me, let me ask you on that note.
23:16Cause I, I heard someone, I can't remember.
23:18I think it might've been Viola Davis talking about shattering glass ceilings.
23:21We use that phrase a lot in media.
23:23Um, I can say all three of you are doing that with your work.
23:26Um, but what she said was, it sounds like a great phrase, but the reality is to shatter, to break through.
23:33It has challenges.
23:34You get cut.
23:35It's sore.
23:36It's going to hurt your head.
23:37Yeah.
23:38I love it.
23:39Blasters baby.
23:40Yes.
23:41I want to talk to you about that.
23:42What are some challenges with shattering the glass ceilings that you're all breaking?
23:46And, and I guess.
23:47Being unpopular.
23:48I was going to say, not being liked.
23:52Not being liked.
23:53Cause you're like.
23:54I don't think so.
23:55And, and, and the tiredness of it actually, the fatigue, you know, the energy that goes
24:03into, you know, the fight.
24:05It's tiring.
24:06Yeah.
24:07To be honest.
24:08It's that thing that you were saying there, Nicholas, isn't it?
24:12It's about, you know, we're a unique soul.
24:15So you resonated with Gambon cause your soul resonated with that.
24:19And actually I think in the world, all of us as human beings, all we want is to be seen
24:25and heard for the entirety and the glory of who we are in our unique.
24:30Yeah.
24:31You know, and the thing that we push back against and why we cleave together like this is because
24:36we are being told that we are an amorphous blob of something called blackness, which means
24:42that you have a particular response rather than saying there are individual human souls
24:47there who all delight in the world in their different ways and resonate in the world in
24:52their different ways.
24:53Yeah.
24:54You know, who they love, what they, what they eat, what they, you know, what, what, what
24:58delights your soul is unique.
25:00There's no one else in the world like you.
25:02And we just want the space for us.
25:04It's to be artists.
25:05You know, we want the unique way that we are an artist to just be what we do and not have
25:10to deal with other people's rubbish the whole time, which is nothing to do with me.
25:15And on that, I, I ignore the glass ceiling, you know, I actually slide through the glass.
25:21I don't shatter anything.
25:22I just move through it.
25:23I just, I literally just ignore it.
25:25Nice.
25:26I don't have time for it.
25:27I stay in my own lane.
25:29I literally just, I just glide through it.
25:32Like I'm in the matrix because if I allow the noise and I allow the energy of that image
25:39and that rhetoric to actually get to me, I think it then as Golda quite rightly said,
25:45it's exhausting.
25:46I'm not going to exhaust myself.
25:47I'm here to do a great job.
25:49And while I'm doing that great job, I don't need to be exhausted by all the other stuff
25:52that is for me superfluous around it.
25:55I understand it, but I found a way of literally just blocking it out and doing me.
26:02And that is how I personally have managed to, you know, climb this ladder that I've still
26:07got a long way to climb and how I will continue to climb it.
26:10Yeah.
26:11And I feel like, you know, the whole purpose of this conversation is celebrating this sort
26:16of British explosion of, or Black British explosion in terms of actors being seen and
26:22being heard.
26:23What types of stories have you not seen yet that you want to get told?
26:28I personally just want to see stories.
26:30Yes.
26:31Yes.
26:32I don't want it to be, you know, listen, until my white counterparts have the color of their
26:41skin put before the title or the color of their skin put before, you know, a particular
26:45type of story, then, you know, that's not equal in an age of equality.
26:50I just want to see stories that have people that look like me and there's no, you know,
26:56other things surrounding it that has to do with Blackness.
27:01You can see me.
27:02I'm a six foot two Black man.
27:05Yeah.
27:06And I have a life just like my neighbor next door.
27:09Yeah.
27:10Just let me tell a story.
27:11And it doesn't have to be specific to a community or specific to it.
27:15And if it is, great.
27:16If it isn't, it doesn't matter.
27:17It's just a story.
27:18And that's what I want to see that we don't see enough of, which is why moonlight was such
27:23a great revelation.
27:24It was just a story.
27:26And I think more stories like that that just show the human condition and human experiences
27:33that everyone can identify with and that reach the masses within their souls and within
27:39their hearts.
27:40Just let me see that with people that look like me and people that don't look like me,
27:45but it not be a thing.
27:47Yeah.
27:48Wow.
27:49That's it.
27:50You know, I was, I meant to, I meant to young actors and a young actress, a young Black mixed
28:01race actress.
28:02She, her, she grew up in the West country like I did.
28:08Lots of sheep and cows.
28:09Sheep.
28:10Sheep.
28:11Sheep and cows.
28:12And I can milk tag by hand.
28:15What can I tell you?
28:16She was, she was saying to me, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to be doing this thing.
28:23And I, can you talk to me about, you know, the discrimination that you face growing up
28:27and what discrimination you face in the industry.
28:30And I just went, okay, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop.
28:33I do not want to have this conversation with you.
28:36I want to talk about you as an artist.
28:39Let's talk about art and let's talk about, because that's what you have to focus on.
28:44And I know you have, we all have to deal with this other stuff.
28:47And I will get, and I will talk to you about tools to deal with that, but do not let that
28:51be your focus.
28:52Yeah.
28:53You are not, you are not a soul that is a problem.
28:56Yeah.
28:57Or one that has to deal with problems.
28:58You are a beautiful shining light in the world.
29:01And you've been gifted to be a particular sort of person to do a particular thing, you
29:06know, water color, you know, car mechanic, actor, whatever.
29:11This is your gift.
29:12Let's focus on the light of your gift.
29:14That, but that does not mean that I don't remember that it was other black actresses that
29:19first told me about auditions.
29:22And it does not mean that I never forget that if I'm in a position, it's my job to go,
29:27come on, everybody, come on up.
29:29And if I'm in a position to make noise and go, excuse me, how many people have you got
29:33behind the camera?
29:34How many black cameramen, focus, puller, grip, you know, who's on the floor?
29:42When I walk on the floor, I know I'm seeing brown faces in front of the camera.
29:45How many am I seeing behind the camera?
29:47I will, I will still have those conversations.
29:50And I will still talk about when people say, you know, we've got to deal with the diversity
29:54in our company.
29:55And I'll just say, how many of your senior leadership team are not white?
30:00Okay.
30:01Don't come and talk.
30:02Sort it out.
30:03So I will still have those conversations because it, you know, because those are the
30:07things that impede our being able to be our unique self.
30:10So I will still have those conversations because what, but I'm trying to just clear the way
30:15so that we can focus on that, that beautiful thing, that beautiful shining soul that deserves
30:21their space in the world.
30:23Cause that's all we want.
30:25Yeah.
30:26Yes.
30:27Beautiful.
30:28Yeah.
30:29Do you want to add to that?
30:30Listen, the guys have said it all, I think.
30:33And, you know, for me, I agree with Nicholas in that I just want to see stories, you know,
30:39I want to see us in trauma, in relationships, in romance, in horror, in drama, in Disney,
30:47in comedy, you know, original stories as well.
30:52You know, so yeah, all of that, all of the stuff the guys are saying is, is positive.
30:58And yeah, you know, it's interesting, Adwoa, I always get the, I always get the feeling that,
31:04you know, the, the age old story of, you know, the black kind of struggle really does affect the newness
31:16of creativity, you know, and us as artists moving forward.
31:21I think, you know, it can really drag you down the heaviness of all that and stop you from creating
31:30and, and, and loving the stuff that you do and loving the people around you.
31:34So yeah, I'm all for, you know, having the conversation, but also celebrating us as artists
31:45and human beings.
31:46Okay.
31:47And the stories out there.
31:49That's beautiful.
31:50That is beautiful.
31:51Well, we're at 30 minutes and I have to say, I'm a fan of all of your work.
31:55I'm a fan of your, your resilience thus far in your careers and your tenacity to tell stories
32:01that matter.
32:02So thank you on behalf of, you know, the entire viewers that are watching right now.
32:06Thanks for having us on.
32:09And listen, um, Essence folks, if you have not checked out for life or Bridgerton yet,
32:15you are missing out.
32:16So please definitely catch up.
32:18And after you've watched, please download pop viewers and let us know how you feel about
32:22each episode.
32:23And on that note, please stick around for more Essence Hollywood house up next.
32:28And on that note, we can get to the end.
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