- 5 weeks ago
Cori Murray chats with Aunjanue Ellis during a fireside chat.
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00:00Welcome back. Okay, y'all. For the final conversation of the Night Essence Deputy Editor,
00:11Corey Murray will be checking in with none other than the actress-producer Ms. Anjanew Ellis.
00:21She's, I mean, wowed us in movies like The Help, Ray and the Clark Sisters biopic,
00:27and TV shows like Lovecraft Country, Quantico, and When They See Us. She's been making waves in
00:34Hollywood, like I said, for over 25 years, and now she's here to share her journey.
00:46Hi, I'm Corey Murray, Deputy Editor here at Essence, and welcome to our fireside chat with Anjanew Ellis.
00:53I am so excited. Welcome back to the Essence Hollywood house. You've been tuned in and soaking
00:58up all this priceless information that we've shared so far, and we're about to get into our final
01:03conversation of the evening, and I have to say, I can't think of a better way to close out this
01:09beautiful day than when our next guest. She is an Emmy-nominated actress and producer with over 25
01:14years in the business, spanning across theater, film, and television. You've seen her in some of
01:19your favorite shows, including New York Undercover, True Bloods, Law and Order, to name just a few.
01:25You've also seen her light up the big screen in over 30 films, including Ray, Men of Honor,
01:31In Too Deep, The Book of Negroes, and If Bill Street Could Talk. My personal fave is Undercutter
01:38Brother, which I'm going to talk to her about, if she'll let me. But most recently, we loved her
01:43projects, including When They See Us, The Clark Sisters, First Ladies of Gospel, and of course,
01:48Lovecraft Country. Please welcome Anjanue Ellis. Oh my God, Anjanue, it's such an honor to have you
01:54here, and thank you for, you're definitely a friend to Essence, and we've loved highlighting you,
02:01celebrating you through all your career. You're such an embodiment of talent, so thank you for being here
02:06today. Well, thank you for asking me. I'm, I am really, I'm really honored, really honored. You
02:14know, Essence has always been one of those, one of those aspirations for me, so this is not a, this is,
02:24this doesn't come, this doesn't fall lightly on me that you've asked me to do this, so thank you very
02:29much. You're most welcome. All right, so we're going to get right into it, and excuse me if I look
02:34off, but I want to make sure my, I'm reading my questions correctly, because I want to get into
02:37this information. So, you know, we've been talking here at Hollywood House, and a lot of things that
02:42have come up for us, especially people who are rising up in the industry, we want to talk about
02:47education, and the role that is played in your career as a creative in film, television, and theater.
02:52You studied acting and obtained degrees from both Brown and NYU, and there are so many varying
02:59perspectives today about the value of a college degree versus the cost of it, particularly for a
03:04creatives, and we want to get your take on it. Are there things you think you wouldn't have been
03:08as prepared for as a working actress if you had not gone to college?
03:15Well, I have to approach that question from a couple of, a couple of different angles.
03:22Um, I think that for me personally, if I had not gone to school, I would not be sitting here talking
03:33to you. But I also think that is, that is, that is a result of a couple of things. My, my choice
03:41for going to school was, I did not have a choice in my household, in my family. You had to, it was not,
03:49it was not. Amen. Amen to that. Like, you're going to do something, but you're not going to be staying
03:55up in here. You are going to matriculate at somebody's school when you graduate from high
04:00school. So there's that. Um, the other thing for me is that, well, it's two more things. One is that,
04:10um, I did not have any faith that I could have any sort of career in anything creative at all,
04:20let alone acting. Why? Well, well, I have to say that acting was not necessarily,
04:27acting was not a dream of mine. It was not a dream of mine. Wow. Okay. And I don't worry a dream.
04:34Well, I wanted to be a writer. I wanted to be a writer, but I didn't even, I didn't even have
04:42faith in that because I had someone who, who, who, you know, doused water on that real early in my life,
04:49a bad seventh grade teacher, Mrs. Reagan. And so I, all of that, all of that creative stuff that I knew
04:57was there. I knew there was something, knew something that was, that was steeped in imagination,
05:03um, that I live with every day. And I'd walk with me every day. I knew that there had to be
05:08some sort of articulation of that, but that happening professionally was not something that
05:16I invested in at all. Here's the thing. First of all, there was no template for that kind of life
05:22where I'm from. I'm from the backwoods of Macomb, Mississippi. There was no template.
05:28You know, there was no Diana Ross coming out of my, you know, coming out of, you know,
05:32Macomb, Mississippi. There, there was no, there was no template. There was no paradigm for that.
05:37There were no steps to follow in. So that, that, that was not presented to me in any sort of way is
05:44this is how you do that. Not just, this is how you do it, the steps in order to do it,
05:49but there was no example of that at all outside of television. So I didn't know how to do it.
05:56The other part of it is, and I want to be, I think it's really important to say these things.
06:00If you have a grandmother that's standing in line to get cheese,
06:05you know what I mean? Amen. Yeah. You don't feel like, well, when I get up out of here,
06:15I'm going to go to New York and, and, and, and go on Broadway. No, I don't want to be,
06:22I don't want to continue this generational poverty, you know? Um, so what I have to do,
06:30well, it would have been generational if I had, if in my mind choosing that would have been,
06:36would have been a generation, another generation of someone who had to stand in line for cheese.
06:40So I had to make another choice. Yeah. You had to break it. Yeah. Yes, exactly. So school was
06:47essential to that. Long story short, I went to school and my going to school meant that I ultimately
06:57went to NYU and there was someone who we did a actor showcase, actor showcase, got me an, got me a
07:04met, got me an agent. And I, from that showcase, I got a job, I got a job off Broadway and ended up
07:11going to Broadway. But if I had to do that on my own, Corey, that would not have happened. It just
07:17would not have happened because I did not, I didn't have, I didn't have the example. I didn't have the
07:22faith and two things happened. One is I had someone who saw that in me. I was going to ask you,
07:30like, who's the one that said, go get into this workshop. Exactly. I had someone, his name is Jim
07:36Barnhill. He's this 90, 96 year old man who lives in Providence, Rhode Island, white man from Hattiesburg,
07:45Mississippi. And he saw, he saw that in me that I did not see for myself. I didn't see that. I didn't
07:52see my making, uh, making a career. I'm having a profession in acting until the day I die up until
08:00probably like eight years ago where I was like, Oh, okay, well, I guess I'm going to be doing this.
08:06You know, you always had like, you had that your writing as, as your plan B.
08:11No, my writing, not even my writing was my plan B. I had no plan B, had no plan B. My plan B was
08:19whatever I need to do to not be hungry. Whatever I need to do so my family won't be hungry. That's
08:26what my plan B was. And we'll all, and really it will always be that, but I have continued to
08:36continue to work. And, and then, so a few years ago I was like, well, I guess I'm going to be doing
08:41this. You know, let me, you know, let me, let me, let me. And then the other thing that happened is
08:48I started writing in earnest. I had a family member who got ill and I needed to do that in
08:54order to survive the experience of that. And then, so I started writing and I've been doing that, uh,
09:01more and it's, it's, it's helped me. It's helped me. It's helped sustain that thing that I knew when I
09:08was eight or nine or 10 years old. Uh, that has become alive in me again.
09:15And what kind of writing are you doing? Are you, are you writing projects? Is it fiction, nonfiction?
09:22Everything, everything, everything. I wake up at five o'clock in the morning and I'm just a genius.
09:31I'm a genius, you know, and then I read it at 12 o'clock and I'm like, oh, this, this ain't too good.
09:37You know, but yeah, that, that, that, that, that really was resurrected in me in a real way a few
09:47years ago. And it's, it's sustaining me. Um, it's, it's, it's helping me, uh, survive, uh, creatively
09:57because I don't think, I, I don't think if it was just acting, you know, I don't think that I, I could,
10:03I could stay as alive as I am, um, without that. That's honest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Without
10:10that other part of it. And it's, I'm, I'm glad you shared that because that's a very real thing
10:15because I've seen other actresses and they're great, but when the roles haven't been there,
10:20you know, they've had to figure out other things. And, you know, a lot of them have, I've seen them
10:24step behind and become producers of stuff and creating their, their, their vehicles.
10:30Yes. Um, because if they were just waiting around for a script to come through, uh, they'd be waiting
10:35forever. Um, so thank you. It's kind of interesting that it was just eight years ago because your body
10:42of work is, is much bigger than that. Um, but what was, what was the one thing? Was there a particular
10:49project that you were like, this is it, I guess I am doing this. Was there one?
10:54Role in that eight years ago that really solidified it for you?
11:00Well, I think when, I think when I started looking across, when I started doing scenes and, and seeing
11:09these incredible people that I'm, I'm working with, you know, I was always, I was always working
11:14with very, very famous people like Samuel Jackson. Yes. But I never felt like I belonged. I never
11:21felt like this, I'm supposed to be here. You know what I'm saying? I never, I never had
11:25that sense of belonging. I always felt like a visitor, you know? And then, you know, about
11:32seven or eight years ago that, that switched. And I can't, I can't pinpoint it to one, one
11:38particular, one particular role, but what I started feeling was an ownership about what
11:43I was doing. That I didn't have to apologize because I showed up at work that day. You
11:49know what I'm saying?
11:50You're like, I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. I have something to offer. And I did not feel
11:56that way. It took me a long, long time, a long, long time to feel that way. I want to
12:02go back to the whole school thing. The, yes, I had a traditional, yes, I had a traditional
12:08school experience and I needed that. That was a necessity for me because first of all,
12:15it was of the time. Everybody didn't have to do that now. There are different roads to
12:19this, to this now. Thank God. But I had to do it because I didn't believe in myself. But
12:28my, where I learned how to do it, where I learned how to act was watching other people
12:35do it. And I learned, I learned in the process of being terrible, I had to go through that.
12:42And also on, on, on the job, I had to learn on the job. And the, and the great thing about
12:49me working with these giants is, and not some of them aren't necessarily famous, but they
12:55are just giants because they're very good at what they do. It taught me how to act. It taught
13:01me how to be better. It taught me how to be better and what, and better at what I was
13:05doing.
13:06It's funny you say that because, you know, they teach you in writing, especially in journalism,
13:10the way you get better is you got to do more of it. You have to, you have to keep practicing
13:15and, and, you know, I've never, I remember people, you know, they get all these red lines
13:19in their copy and they, some people get really offended by it, but it's like, that's how you
13:23learn though. That's, it's really how you learn the craft of it. Cause it is a craft.
13:27It is a craft. It is a craft. And I respect, I respect it as such. I respect it as a craft.
13:35The, the, the other part of it, the stuff that happens when you're not in front of the
13:39camera, I do not respect. That's the hardest, that's the hard part of this. And that's why,
13:44that's why writing sustains me, you know, is because that's something I can control.
13:49There's so much that you cannot control and it will, it will destabilize you.
13:55But the, the joy of it, the joy of it has, has come from, from the doing, the doing of
14:07it. Yeah. And, and, and sucking and then, you know what I mean? And just being like, yeah,
14:12girl, this wasn't it. You know, I did, I did this, this is a personal story, but you know,
14:17hey, we're here. It's a fireside chat. Yes. It's a fireside chat. I did this scene with
14:23Niecy Nash and, you know, I came to it, not, not feeling like, oh my God, you know, I'm in
14:35a scene with Niecy Nash, but, but feeling the star of Niecy Nash, right? But feeling
14:44like this woman can act, you know what I mean? Talk about, she owns what she does. So I knew
14:52that I had to meet that. And then I, I, I wasn't as prepared for the, for the scene as
15:02I wanted to be. I did my best or whatever, but it wasn't as good as I wanted to be because
15:06I wasn't prepared for it. And then I looked, I looked at the scene in, in, in, in ADR
15:14when you go back in and you have to do lines and stuff that was missed because of sound.
15:19And I looked at that scene and I just, I just thought, dang, I didn't, I didn't meet her.
15:26I didn't meet her, you know, and she was so lovely to me and so receptive to me. And I,
15:33and I just, I just didn't meet it. And that hurts so bad, Corey, it hurts so bad, but I needed to see
15:41that. Why? I needed to see that I still got work to do. Ah, and if we're talking about when they
15:50see us. Yes. Yes. You know, it's interesting you say that because as a viewer, there was never a
15:57moment where you faltered, you know what I mean? But, but I get it when you, but when you love what
16:04you do, you, you know, and you're a professionalism, you're a professionalist. And, and also you have
16:11this uber talent. So I respect that you may have think like, oh, I didn't hit that note, but as a
16:16viewer, what you did and when they see us was so riveting, riveting. Thank you. I appreciate that.
16:24But I know, I know those under the sound of my voice, they know, and you know, when you can do
16:31your best and I, and I, I didn't do my best in that moment. And I was just like, I'm with this
16:37Titan. I'm with Niecy Nash. And I'm like, oh God. But it, it put me back at the, it put me back at
16:45the, at the, at the, at the, at the chalkboard. It put me back like, okay, next time you, you just,
16:51it, you know, you just gotta be, you gotta be over, you gotta be over prepared, you know?
16:56So, so yeah, that's, that's the stuff. That's the, that's the tough part of it is learning while
17:01you do it. Yeah. I want to shift this really quickly because in Lovecraft Country, the episode
17:08where I believe it's episode five, where it's Hippolyta's episode. It's all her story. What
17:14was it like filming that? Because that was all you and varying degrees of a character. Well,
17:21this one character, but during different entry points, can you talk a little bit about filming
17:26that scene? Scenes, really. Scenes, yeah. That was, that was so fun. You know, I just had,
17:37I had, I had a blast. I had such a good time. Now, now I was working my tail off. It was a lot of,
17:44it was a lot of work involved in it. It was a lot of work in it, but, but for me, the, the,
17:51the hard work of it, when it feels like hard work is when it's fun. You know, when it, when I feel
17:57like I'm, I'm, I'm using my muscles, the muscles of my brain and my body, I feel like I'm earning my
18:03check. I feel like, I feel like I am earning my place among, in, in front of black women and,
18:11and representing, representing them and hopefully, hopefully in a way that they, that they would
18:17appreciate. So that's joy. That's joy to me. But at the time, it's just like, I got to say my lines.
18:25I got to, you know, it's, it does, it's, it's just like, you're like in the middle of it. So I wasn't
18:28really thinking about it, but it was, it was, it was, it was joy. That was, that was a joyous time.
18:36I mean, to, to do those scenes with Josephine Baker and to be dancing and, and, you know,
18:42kill the Confederate soldiers. You know, I, when I read it, I was like, really, you gonna let me do
18:47all of that? Really? You know, you gonna let me do all of that? And then come back and save the day
18:54in a blue wig. Oh, right. You know what I'm saying? Like her, her, it's all her vision for how she
19:06wants to see black women on screen, you know? So it was a blast. It was a blast doing that.
19:14It was freeing to watch, freeing to watch you. I sometimes find myself going, I have the Pilata
19:19and that's not even my story. We have one more big question to, before we wrap up, I feel like I
19:26keep talking to you. So let's talk about what's going on in Hollywood right now. And we're seeing
19:31so many amazing things happening for black creatives in terms of ownership and authentic
19:36black storytelling, which we kind of touched on a little bit, but what progress are you most proud
19:41to see? And what's the change that you think we still haven't seen yet that is needed?
19:49Well, I mean,
19:55every story that I hear about women, you know, particularly black folks in general, black folks,
20:04period. And, and, you know, I'll expand this to, you know, Asian folks,
20:11Latin folks, you know, people who we don't see, we don't see enough. I'm sorry. Don't see.
20:19We don't. We don't. And I'm tired of the invisibility because that the invisibility is,
20:24is a lie. And I'm tired. I'm tired of that. It's, it's, I'm exhausted with that. Um, it, I'm,
20:32I feel so excited about that and I'm just, I'm just ready and waiting for, you know, what that will,
20:40what that will look like. Um, so I'm excited about that. The, but the other part of that is,
20:46and this is what we have to be real vigilant about very, very vigilant about is that
20:53yes, that there, yes, that there are these, you know, wonderful actors and directors and producers
21:00who are doing these fantastic things and they will continue to do that. But the flip side of that,
21:06the flip side of that, that we have to be really vigilant about is, um, there are, um, stories about
21:18our historical figures and those stories are being told by, I don't, I'm saying this very,
21:27very crudely, but I want people to understand. I'm not, I'm going to not mince words. Like those
21:32stories are being told and written by white men. And, um, so if it's not enough to get the story
21:41told is what I'm trying to say. And we, we have these announcements that, you know, this, this, this,
21:48this, the story of this person in the civil rights movement, that story is going to be told, but we
21:52need to look at the, we need to look at the small print and see who's doing the storytelling.
21:57It's not enough that the story is being told. We need to be the ones doing the tell, doing the
22:03telling. And what is, what is happening is that, um, um, black writers are getting the doors being
22:14shut in their faces, um, um, in these projects and this project of telling black stories. So, um, I can
22:25tell you very specifically their story of Bayard Rustin is being told by Dustin Lance Black. Um, uh,
22:32the story of Whitney Houston's next story, uh, is being told by being written, being written by Andrew
22:37Davies. Um, you know, it's been announced that, uh, Fannie Lou Hamer's story is going to be done by,
22:44written by white men, even though Common is producing it, it's being written by white men.
22:48Now, I think that, I think that, that, that needs to matter to us. It needs to matter to us because
22:59the level of activism that we have in the streets, we have to be just as, just as strong in that kind
23:10of, in, in our voices in these rooms. And when we're having these kinds of conversations where we say
23:17that is not acceptable, that is not acceptable because our black writers matter, because our
23:24black historical figures matter, and we should do, we should be the ones doing the storytelling.
23:30Well, Anjanu, it's been such an honor to have you here with us tonight. Is there anything else,
23:36uh, that you have upcoming that you would like to share with us?
23:39Anjanu? Um, well, well, I think that, uh, I don't usually, I don't usually plug stuff.
23:50No, plug away.
23:52I'm gonna do a shameless plug. Um, but I'm excited about, um, uh, the movie, it's a movie that is
24:00gonna come out in the fall. It's gonna take forever for it to come out, but it's coming out in the fall,
24:05and it's about, uh, the Williams family, Venus and Serena, and it focuses on, um, their father,
24:12and it's called King Richard, after Richard Williams. And, um, Richard Williams is being
24:18played by Will Smith, and, um, two really lovely young women are playing Venus and Serena,
24:24Sanaya and Demi, and I play their, I play their mother. So, I, I hope that we've done, um,
24:32I hope we've done, I hope we've honored them in a, in a, in a way, because these, these women are
24:37just, come on, the Williams family. Um, so he did. Yeah. Yes. You know what I'm saying? I can't,
24:45you cannot mess that up. So anyway, uh, that's, that's going to be out in, uh, I guess around
24:51Thanksgiving. So I'm shamelessly plugging that. Hey, that's worth going out and going outside for.
24:58Okay. Yeah. Still be masked, be masked. Yeah. All right. So thank you for being here and thank
25:07you to everyone out there who tuned in for our fireside chat with the incomparable
25:11Ms. Anjanew Ellis. Have a great night. Wow. Now that is how you close with a bang.
25:19What a night, right? I've had the best time tonight and I hope everyone out there watching
25:24learn something new that will help them feel like they can take things to the next level.
25:30Be sure to check me out on IG, TikTok, Twitter at Storm Reed, and also look out for me and my next
25:38project Suicide Squad coming soon. And again, thank you to our sponsors tonight, L'Oreal,
25:46American Airlines, Coca-Cola, and thank you so much Essence for having me. Love.
25:54Bye.
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