- 2 days ago
Photographers Dana Scruggs and Itaysha Jordan Panel Discussion at Essence Fashion House
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00Dana Scruggs, correct. You're from Southside Chicago? I am. You are. You in 2016
00:09launched your very own Scruggs magazine. Yes. It's a print publication. It allows
00:15you to have the content. Actually it says you, they wouldn't hire you so you
00:22started your own, correct? Let me give you some more background on you. After
00:27herself assigning about six years, she was offered to shoot ESPN's Body Issue which
00:33is your breakthrough kind of to the industry. You have photographed Travis
00:38Scott for Rolling Stones in November 2018 and you became the first black person to
00:43ever photograph the magazines in the magazine's 50th year history. Yeah, the
00:50cover of Rolling Stone. Okay, we're gonna talk about that in a second here. Your
00:53clientele varies from the New York Times, Essence Magazine, ESPN, Nike,
00:57Apple, and then of course so much more. We'll get to you in a second. The lady
01:01over there. Hi. Hi, Tayshia. Jordan, correct? Yes. All right, you're from Boston. Yes, I am. Is your microphone
01:08on? Yeah? Hello. Yes. There you go. You took on photography your sophomore year of high
01:18school. You have shot for modeling industry as well as notable from entertainment world. You continue to
01:27expand boundaries of fashion and beauty. You have storytelling and editorial format. Solange,
01:35Knowles, Iman, Lauryn Hill, Taraj. Really? B. Henson, that's awesome. And so much more. So now I have all these questions because I'm like, all right, let's get to like the knit and grit of like who you are and your background. So let's start with you in a lot of
01:36Dana. Well, like I said, I grew up on the south side of Chicago and it's been a winding road and it's been a long road. And I moved to New York in 2012 and really didn't have any idea of how to go about being a photographer and how to go about being a photographer.
01:43Didn't know how to get clients. And it seemed very ambiguous, the whole process. And moving to New York.
01:50All right, let's get to the knit and grit of like who you are and your background. So let's start with you, Dana.
01:53Well, like I said, I grew up on the south side of Chicago. And it's been a winding road and it's been a long road. And I moved to New York in 2012 and really didn't have any idea of how to go about being a photographer, didn't know how to get clients.
02:08And it seemed very ambiguous, the whole process. And moving to New York and kind of the grand scheme of New York.
02:15Yeah. Yeah. And I think also there's this like fear of scarcity amongst photographers. So whenever I would ask working photographers, like how do you get clients? How do you move forward?
02:26It would always be this very ambiguous answer. So I think that was also part of the reason why I took so long. But then also just reaching out to publications.
02:35People weren't necessarily interested in hiring me. So I started my own print publication.
02:39That's what you're supposed to do, right? It's like, if you don't make the way for me, I'm going to do it myself.
02:44Exactly. And I wrote all the content. I shot all the content for it. It was more of a personal diary and visual manifesto.
02:52Most of my career, I focused on shooting men and masculinity and or male masculinity.
03:01And like towards the end of that, I focused mainly on shooting the black male form.
03:06And that was like the main focus. And that was kind of also like my breakthrough creatively as well.
03:11So I did that for a number of years, almost gave up many times because, you know, living in New York, you know, it's very difficult financially if you're not, you know, if nobody's hiring you.
03:21So and then last year, I basically, you know, it was on the cusp of giving up and the I got an email out of the blue from the photo director at ESPN asking me if I was willing, interested in shooting the body issue, which is amazing because literally no one I had one editorial in the entire six and a half years that I'd been in New York.
03:45Wow. And to get an opportunity like that, she literally found me on Tumblr or so.
03:51It's important to put your work out there. I always tell people, you know, one of my questions coming up was, you know, we'll get to that in a second of how do you actually, you know, get there?
03:59Because, you know, you two have paved the way, but there's so many people who are like, how do I even get started? But we, you know, we're going to get there.
04:06Yeah. So that's, that's what changed everything was the body issue. And, and I can also go into the like, also a how of that later, but then like, things started cascading a bit, but still like not getting as crazy as it's gotten. And then in January, or, or in November of last year, I ended up being the first black, well, first, let me go back ESPN body issue. I knew when they offered it to me, I was the first black woman to shoot the issue.
04:34Did you, you said you didn't know? No, I knew automatically. Yeah. And I asked them after everything, I was like, you know, can you check your archive? Because I'm pretty sure I'm the first black female photographer to do this. And they checked with actually the direct, the photo editor didn't have to check because he'd been there the whole time. And he's like, I know that you're the first and you know, it's, it's been a long time coming.
04:53Uh, but, uh, with, uh, with Rolling Stone, uh, being offered that, I also know immediately that I was the first black person to do it. And I didn't say anything until, uh, it had been shot and everything was finalized. And I asked, yeah, I was like, you know, can you check your archive? Cause I think I'm the first black person.
05:13I love how she says, can you check your archive? Is that not the, is that not like the favorite, excuse me, can you check on this to make sure I am the first? That's amazing.
05:21Yeah. And I ended up being the first and, and, and I think, you know, it's indicative of a culture of, of nepotism and, and just hiring people that look like you come the same, you know, come from the same economic bracket as you and that are friends and family or whatever, friends of friends.
05:35And that's how you get this like cycle of the same photographers that have been shooting for all these publications for, you know, forever. And they're the only, they're the, you know, they're friends with the gatekeepers. So, you know, that's how they keep getting these, uh, you know, this longevity, but it's like hard for everybody else to get in. So that's also part of like my process now is like giving people the opportunity.
05:57Yeah. The opportunity, the tools, the information. And so that they are also, you know, breaking into these industries that didn't want us, you know?
06:07Absolutely. We'll get back to you in a second. Dana, that's incredible. I want to, there's so many questions I have for you. It's like, Itaysha, tell me about, you started off in Boston and how did you end up, you know, here?
06:18How did I end up in New York?
06:19How did you end up in New Orleans since 2019?
06:22No, the journey. Tell me about it.
06:24The journey has been a very long journey. Um, well, I started shooting when I was in high school and when it came time, I was maybe 10th grade, uh, like the end of ninth grade, going into 10th grade. So I was like 15.
06:37Which is very young, knowing exactly what you want to do.
06:40Yeah. Well, I come from a very artistic family.
06:44So I always knew it was natural. I can't say I always knew I wanted to be in some form of an artist, but I always created with my hands.
06:53Like, that was my first question. Camp, what's arts and crafts? You know, what arts and crafts are available or what, you know what I mean? So I was always, um, into just being creative.
07:03And the minute that I took, actually the first photography class that I took, I didn't like it. I didn't like the teacher. He wasn't really, um, uh, informative. He wasn't into it.
07:18And then I took another chance with the head of the department, RIP, um, David Prifty, who, um, was like, well, take a class with me.
07:28You know, you can't just hang around here because I used to hang around the art department. Um, you know, not really taking classes.
07:33And so I got into it and I started taking pictures, portraits of like my friends and I would dress them up. I would go to thrift stores. I buy makeup. I come up.
07:44You were like hair, makeup and the photographer.
07:46Yeah.
07:47Yeah. I was doing everything.
07:49Yeah. Um, and I would kind of like look at people, didn't matter what you were, who you were, what size. Um, I would sort of say, Hmm, we should do a 1920s look with you.
08:01Interesting.
08:02That type of thing.
08:03Okay.
08:03Um, and so I started photographing them with hot lights, um, and, uh, making, using, um, you know, in the dark room, like spending a lot of time in the dark room.
08:14Um, fast forward to when it came time for college, I was like, I don't know what I want to go to school for.
08:20Yeah.
08:20And, um, Mr. Pifty was like photography. And I was like, okay.
08:25So I was, I had gone to school. I'm from Boston, but I was, um, shipped, not shipped, but I went to school in the suburbs, um, through a program called Mecco.
08:36Okay.
08:37Um, where they bused inner city, uh, kids to the suburbs for a better education.
08:42Okay.
08:42And, um, I, so I was sort of stuck in this world of boredom, I would say.
08:49And I'm, you know, from up north, so I wanted to come to Atlanta.
08:54So I found a school in the back of Mademoiselle Magazine, no longer exists.
08:58I remember that.
08:59You remember that?
09:00We're showing our age.
09:01We're showing, we're getting a little, you know.
09:02It's okay.
09:02Um, and I, um, went to this school, which wasn't the best decision for, um, because I had learned so much already and you had to kind of like restart.
09:16But, um, so I didn't pay attention in class, but I was just like, I need to get to someplace black.
09:23Oh, okay.
09:24You were like, you knew what you, you knew where you needed to go.
09:26Right.
09:27You just didn't know how to get there.
09:28Right.
09:28So I started like hanging out all my friends and, uh, I had a lot of friends who were in the music industry and, um, I would do like portraits.
09:36I remember I shot L.O. Cool J. It was a snapshot, but that was like a big deal for me because that was like my childhood crush.
09:41I had this posters all over my ceilings and walls.
09:46And, um, I, I always say that I was meant to go to Atlanta, although I didn't create, uh, finish my schooling there because I met some awesome people that I'm still friends with today.
09:57Um, but school wise, no, that was a no.
10:00So do you have both, do you guys both feel like education, especially photography is important as like right now, if somebody is an aspiring photographer?
10:09No.
10:09No.
10:10I personally kind of do.
10:12You do.
10:13Yeah.
10:13Maybe not a traditional program, but I'm finding that I'm seeing a lot of people who aren't inspired.
10:19So maybe it's not a classroom per se, because, um, maybe I'm 50, 50 on the question, because even when I was in school, I took classes and I read, I went to,
10:27like the bookstore outside of my course to study.
10:32So you're saying maybe education on a platform of like education, not necessarily going to college.
10:36Yeah, not necessarily because you can go through a program, right?
10:39And get your BA and whatever it is and still not.
10:43And not know or not be Excel.
10:44What do you say?
10:45And you're saying no.
10:46I mean, of course, you definitely have to educate yourself to a certain degree.
10:51And I think even if you're in school, a certain level of self-education is important because if you're literally just doing the structure of whatever your courses or whatever your classes are, whatever the person that's teaching you is,
11:06you're basically just becoming a clone of the photo teacher or the professor.
11:11If you're not extrapolating from the education that you're getting, then you're just going to, you know, do really basic, boring work or whatever it is that that person is doing.
11:21Well, how do you stand out?
11:22Like how does one stand out in photography?
11:24I think, well, in terms of like to just to like with the education that you're providing for yourself, I think you learn, you know, the basics.
11:34You look at work that you are inspired by.
11:37And I think, honestly, like people when they're first starting out, they kind of start copying, you know, the people that really inspire them.
11:44But then once you start shooting and once you start seeing what you like, it's important to like grow from there and see where you can go with your work and like and push further and farther and never be satisfied.
11:58So I think that's how you start to stand out, because if you're trying to conform to whatever it is that the industry standard is, then you're just going to be like everybody else.
12:08And maybe you'll get work.
12:09Maybe you won't.
12:10But I think you'll never actually create an aesthetic and a voice for yourself.
12:16And I think that would be really sad.
12:18I like to think that, well, I'm not from the stone ages, but I am from a period a few years or several years right before the big digital, you know, takeover.
12:32And I didn't have social media and, you know.
12:37Yeah.
12:37How does social media play into this, you know, it's this whole new because everybody's a photographer.
12:43Right.
12:43I mean, think about it.
12:44I mean, everybody, you know, I can, there's selfies and there's things, you know.
12:48Even when people ask me questions, they ask, sometimes they ask questions.
12:51I mean, you know, it's like no question is dumb, stupid.
12:54But they ask questions that to me can be researched or figured out.
13:00They ask questions that sometimes I don't even know the answers to.
13:02Like when you talk about the ambiguous, you know, how ambiguous answers can be when people are asking questions.
13:09And that's why I think it is important for some type of curriculum or to follow some type of, you know, program.
13:18Because I feel like there's just a lot of people seeing what other people are doing and then they're trying to do it.
13:22And then, you know, they're not really developing as an artist.
13:25Where I feel like I was in isolation for a long period of time when I started out saying that there was no social media.
13:32And I feel like that's how I find myself.
13:33Even though I have definitely improved, when I look back to some of my old work, it's still there.
13:40Like my vision, my look is still there.
13:43It's just not developed.
13:44So I feel like I was in isolation really with myself thinking about how do I want this person that I'm shooting, this subject, to look.
13:55How do I, you know, add my references of whatever it is.
13:59What is the one, you know, picture or moment both of you guys that you had, you were like, this is it.
14:08Have you had that moment yet?
14:09Or what was that for you?
14:10Like, and what picture was it?
14:12Who was in it?
14:14Well, can I answer that?
14:17But can I also extrapolate from what you were saying before?
14:20Yes.
14:20I think, you know, yeah, it is important to have knowledge and, like, a curriculum and all those things possibly.
14:26But I think a lot of people that ask me questions that are in a program, they, I feel like schools teach you how to shoot.
14:34They don't teach you the business side.
14:35And I think everybody has a problem with that.
14:37Yes, this is super, that's very true.
14:39Yeah, whether you're in school or not in school.
14:42So I think that's why it's important for people to, that have made it.
14:47Or I don't even feel like I've made it.
14:49Right.
14:49I feel like I'm making it.
14:50Yes.
14:51But I think the people that have gone to a certain level.
14:53Yes.
14:53Part of our culture is, you know, even if you're in music or you're in fashion or you're in photography or whatever that genre would be that's not considered normal, I would say.
15:03There is still a business side of it that we're, that I think there is education that needs to be put on that.
15:08Exactly.
15:09That no one, that we're trying to kind of figure out right now.
15:11That's where, that's where we're at.
15:12But you guys have paved the way and, you know, and so have our, you know, people before us.
15:17But I think that's mainly one of the biggest issues, I think, with our young society is creating a business for those, those amazing talents and those other subjects that, it's not lawyer, doctor, business of such.
15:31You know what I mean?
15:31There is a business and education that needs to be grounded for that.
15:36Do you guys agree with that?
15:38Absolutely.
15:38And I think also when you've gotten to a certain point, I think it's important for you to give that information out.
15:46So whenever I'm doing any press or giving any sort of interview, I'm always laying out, this is how I did it.
15:52These are the steps that you take.
15:54And, you know, because I don't want to be a monolith.
15:56I don't want to be tokenized.
15:57I don't want to be the only one or one of only a few out here that are black women that are doing this because we don't have access.
16:06I never had a mentor.
16:07I never had, I was never an assistant.
16:11I was, like, barred, essentially.
16:12I tried to, like, get into these spaces.
16:14But unless you're, like, a white dude or, you know, a white woman, you have the connections.
16:20You know these people that are working in those industries and you're able to get in.
16:24But, like, even if I'm in those spaces, I'm already on the outside.
16:28So they're not, I wasn't given those opportunities.
16:30So that's also why it took longer.
16:32So I'm always, you know, making sure that I'm putting that information out there so it's not, like, this ambiguous thing.
16:37Right.
16:37And that there's, like, more access for us.
16:41So what do you want me to remember for it on that level?
16:44Like, on that, what do you want to be remembered for?
16:46Period.
16:47I want to be remembered for this.
16:52I think, I think about this a lot.
16:55Yeah.
16:55I think about legacy a lot.
16:56And even before I was, you know, as known as I am now, legacy was very much important to me and leaving something behind and leaving an archive that I could be proud of and that would exist well beyond my death.
17:12So I'm still working on that.
17:14But I want to...
17:15I don't like that.
17:15It's always a work in progress, right?
17:17Yeah, it's always a work in progress.
17:18But I want to be remembered for making work that was affecting, that pushed the narrative forward in terms of, like, black people being autonomous over our bodies, being beautiful and strong and not through a white gaze, the narrative of black people through a white gaze.
17:42I think there are more black photographers out here making work like that.
17:46And just, I think for so long, our narratives and our stories were told through the white perspective and it also affected us as people.
17:54It makes you look at things.
17:55It makes you look at the world differently.
17:56It makes you as a black person also look at the world differently because you don't actually understand who we are because you've been told who you are through media, movies, TV shows your whole life.
18:09And then now you're starting to actually create the narrative.
18:12Well, it looks like you're doing it being the first of many of, you know, the things that you're doing.
18:16Obviously, Rolling Stones and those types of magazines.
18:19So, you know, keep going.
18:21I tell you, what about you?
18:21What do you want to be remembered for?
18:22It's always, I've never been ready enough.
18:28Like, I'm always like, oh, I'm not there yet.
18:31You know, even my career earlier, earlier on in my career in New York, I would have people say to me, you know, you should be doing this, you should be doing that.
18:42And I was like, I'm not ready yet.
18:43I think I've always taken the approach of wanting to create timeless images, sorry, timeless images that last and that would put me in, you know, those books, those photography books that you get when it's like 100 photographers and you're listed.
19:00You know, you're in the library, Library Congress, you know, that type of thing.
19:04So longevity is definitely, and legacy is definitely very important to me.
19:08And that's what I'm working towards.
19:15Yes.
19:15Well, one great thing is that photography is an image that lasts forever.
19:18So you can capture something and have that iconic moment.
19:21Before we wrap up, because then we open it to the audience if they have any questions.
19:25One word, just one word on what your work is.
19:32If you could just pick a word.
19:35What is that for you guys?
19:37Is that hard?
19:39Think about a picture word.
19:43No pun intended.
19:44Well, I think vulnerability is a word.
19:48I think.
19:49That's really beautiful.
19:50Legacy is also a word I was thinking.
19:52I always think about legacy, but definitely vulnerability.
19:55Yeah.
19:55It's hard to be vulnerable, right?
19:57Must be nice to capture that moment in a picture.
19:59What about you?
20:00What word for you?
20:03Off the top of my head, I would say maybe soul, you know.
20:08I like for my images to resonate and provide an emotion.
20:20So I think that's, you know, by capturing.
20:23So I like to capture the souls of people, if possible.
20:26I love that.
20:27If they let me.
20:28Hey, I'm like, capture.
20:30I want to know what you would see.
20:32It's kind of interesting.
20:33I do like that perspective.
20:34Any questions out there for, I'm going to open up to the audience if you have any questions
20:37on photography, on how to, what to, where to.
20:42No questions?
20:43Yes?
20:44I would like to know for both Dana and Itasia.
20:50What has to happen for you to feel like you've made it?
20:53What's the one thing that you want to do for you to feel like, oh my God, I've arrived?
21:00What would make you feel like that?
21:02Nothing.
21:03I never want to get to that point.
21:04I probably, you know, I'm a little bit of a perfectionist.
21:06I probably will never think that I have arrived, but we can just talk about the basics of being
21:12able to survive day to day, month to month, without worrying about how you're going to
21:16pay your bills or where you're going to live.
21:18You know what I mean?
21:19And I don't even know if that's made it, but just the, and I wanted to touch a little bit
21:23on, well, obviously we're not the first, but I do think there's this new, you know,
21:30path, this new era, especially because it's so, you can see it more and people talk about
21:35it more.
21:37And I just wanted to talk about how we are figuring out and kind of like taking, you
21:45know, tearing the weeds out of the path, you know, so there is no one way and one path
21:52because it hasn't really been done on this level before, I don't think.
21:57No, but people, you know, but I think, you know, the younger generations or anyone who has
22:00is seeing you guys do something that, I don't know, hasn't been done before.
22:04Maybe I didn't think about doing that, is what needs to be seen more often than not.
22:10And that's what it's all about.
22:11Because sometimes you just don't even know it's possible until somebody you see that looks
22:15like you or thinks like you is doing something like that.
22:19Yeah.
22:19And I mean, I think if you're giving people information and laying the groundwork, everybody
22:23has their own path and they get to where they're going, how they're going to get there.
22:26Right.
22:26But I think if you have kind of a bit of a blueprint or a roadmap, it gets, it's much
22:31easier to get there.
22:33So, yeah.
22:35Well, you guys are doing a fantastic job.
22:38I'm proud of you.
22:39I love meeting you guys.
22:40And I love, of course, you know, giving your information out.
22:42I always feel like I can't learn enough about people.
22:45And that's probably why you love photography because you just, it's always, it's ever,
22:49what's the word, everlasting or?
22:51It is everlasting.
22:52It's everlasting.
22:53Right.
22:53So, I want to thank you, Dana Scruggs.
22:56And I want to thank you, Aitasha Jordan, for your time.
22:58And keep doing what you're doing, girls.
23:00I mean, black girl magic works.
23:01And it's obviously you're doing something amazing.
23:03And I'm so proud of you.
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