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Cori Murray talks to The Mane Attraction with Hulu’s BAD HAIR Cast: Vanessa Williams, Elle Lorraine, Justin Simien, Lena Waithe, and Laverne Cox.
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00:00Hi, it's Cori Murray, entertainment and talent director at Essence, and I decided to step
00:09over into the beauty carnival space because there's a film that I just saw that's going
00:14to have everybody talking, and it has a lot to do with what grows on your head.
00:19So please help me in welcoming the cast and creator and director of Bad Hair, Justin Simeon,
00:26Vanessa Williams, Elle Lorraine, Lena Waithe, and Laverne Cox.
00:34What's up, Cori?
00:38Hey, what up, what up?
00:39What up, everybody?
00:41Hello.
00:43How you doing?
00:43Good.
00:44Oh, my God, guys.
00:45Let's just jump right in.
00:46Justin, this is your baby, your hair baby, if you will.
00:50My very strange, unique baby.
00:53Yes.
00:53So Bad Hair follows an ambitious young woman who gets a weave in order to succeed in the
00:59image-based, obsessed world of music television, and the scene is set in 1989.
01:05Can you each speak to an experience where your physical appearance, specifically your hair,
01:10had an impact on your career?
01:11On my career, I don't know, but I luckily chose a career behind the camera, so I was a little
01:22bit ahead of the game there.
01:23But I do know as a gay black man, starting to lose my hair, hello, was quite an experience
01:30and navigating the world of black masculine culture as a gay man to get my hair done and
01:39to get it cut in a way that, like, it seemed like only black people appreciated and recognized
01:43is certainly a part of my journey.
01:45But I think this is a question for the ladies, for sure.
01:49I'll start.
01:52I'm originally from Houston, Texas.
01:55And moving to L.A., I feel like there was all of a sudden a part of me that had to look
02:02a certain way, I had to present an image that I wasn't used to.
02:05So I went through so many hair changes, from the wheeze to the, you know, blood, what is
02:11it, dyed, brown, and blow-dried, all those things.
02:14And I even remember at one point, I tried to go blonde because I was trying to look different
02:18and present myself in a different way for the industry, and all of my hair fell out.
02:22And that was a moment for me where I was like, okay, I have to find myself, my own identity,
02:28and love everything about myself, because no one else will.
02:33And once I did that, I kind of started to open up and find out who I am as a woman, you know?
02:38And my hair defines me in a totally different way at this point.
02:43Wow.
02:45Well, I'll go.
02:47For me, it's interesting because I'm also trans, so I'm a black woman, and I'm also a trans woman.
02:52And I've had so many different hairstyles over the years.
02:56And so many, I've dyed my hair, my hair's also fallen out.
03:00I remember in 2011, I had not relaxed my hair for two years, and I did a film at the beginning
03:05of that year, and I relaxed my hair for the film.
03:08And then I started wearing my hair, instead of wearing wigs, I started wearing my hair
03:11in different films, like Snatchback or whatever.
03:14And by the end of 2011, after relaxing my hair, my hair was broken, it was fried.
03:19My hair does not like relaxers.
03:21And so that was the last time I relaxed my hair.
03:25And for me, the bigger question is the relationship between how I feel about myself, how I love
03:33and embrace my own naturalness in terms of hair, in terms of everything, and then the
03:38onus of needing to be marketable and be marketable in white supremacy, right?
03:44Being marketable in a white supremacist culture.
03:46This film sort of deals with the monstrous nature of white supremacy, how we internalize
03:51that.
03:52And I think the work for me is like, how have I internalized it in relationship to success,
03:57in relationship to having currency, and then not wanting anything to sort of keep me from
04:02being cast in something.
04:04So I think though there's all of that, that's not even just about my career.
04:07It's about, am I dateable?
04:10Am I, you know, comfortable on so many other levels?
04:15Wow.
04:15Thank you for that.
04:16Vanessa?
04:17Being the one who's the oldest out of everybody and actually being, working in 1989, the struggle
04:25was, the power struggle was insisting on people within the union and within the hair union
04:32to get your way to get somebody who knew about black hair.
04:36And that was something that took years to say, listen, you think you know how to deal with
04:41black hair and you don't, and that, thus your hair gets fried off and no one knows what edges
04:46are, no one knows what getting in the kitchen is, nobody knows the lingo, but also the technique.
04:51It's a specific technique to work with black hair.
04:54And I remember doing, I did a movie and Diane Carroll played my mother and we were talking
05:00about the days of Julia in the 60s.
05:03And she said, I had to insist on a black hairdresser because there was not one black hair person
05:09in the union.
05:10And she single-handedly integrated the union because she insisted, listen, I want somebody
05:16who knows how to do my hair.
05:17So it's those little steps that you have to take to make your mark in order to make change.
05:24And now we have black, you know, plenty of black hairstylists in the union, but it took
05:28her to say, I refuse.
05:29And I insist, and she got her way.
05:32So the struggle still goes on.
05:34Wow.
05:37I'm grateful for that history lesson because I did not know that, but I'm glad now we all
05:41do know that.
05:42I mean, my hair journey is like kind of clear.
05:44I decided to lock my hair.
05:46A lot of people remember I used to have dreadlocks or I was like to say locks.
05:49You shouldn't say dreadful.
05:51Locks are not dreadful.
05:52So you just say locks.
05:53So that was a big journey for me because I wanted to, my mom, you know, I grew up with
06:00the hot comb and my mom straightening our hair.
06:02That was how my sister and I, her eyes would be presentable to people.
06:07And so I think I rebelled against that when I decided to lock my hair and she was not pleased.
06:12And, and, but then I grew to love those locks and then people really, and also too, I think
06:17speaking to my queerness, that's also a thing that for some reason, like queer black women,
06:21we like, we want to lock our hair.
06:23I don't know what that is.
06:24And then, and then I decided to obviously cut it all off.
06:28And that was a really big moment for me because I think for a long time I held onto my hair
06:32because I knew if I shaved my head, because also how I present, I'm a masculine presenting
06:36lesbian, that people, it would kind of make, I would be looked at a certain way or people
06:41would think I was maybe more aggressive than I actually was.
06:44And I wanted to hold onto my hair because I wanted people to know, no, I'm a soft stud.
06:47I'm a, I'm a, I'm not an aggressive person.
06:50And, and so, but then I was just like, but I really cut my hair off.
06:55My mom was not pleased again.
06:56And it became, then I think I almost stepped into my power when I cut my hair off and, and
07:03then, and now I'm coloring it and playing with it.
07:05And, and I, I just felt such a, such a sense of freedom.
07:09And now I embrace that part of myself.
07:11But I'm really appreciate what Laverne said, because also I think your hair journey doesn't
07:15have something to do with what your sexual orientation journey as well, or your gender journey.
07:20It does have a lot to do with how people view you.
07:23So, thank you.
07:25So Justin, I want to go back to you because I realized like, you know, you're right.
07:28You, you're a man, you probably don't have the same hair struggles that women do, but can
07:33you tell us why you made this amazing film that focuses on women's hair journeys?
07:39Yeah.
07:39Um, yeah, I mean, first of all, as a man, like I, I do have male privilege, like my hair,
07:44whatever.
07:44And it's been, it's been traumatic at times as well, uh, as I, I detail in dear white
07:49people, but, um, it's not the same.
07:52And, uh, I really want, this is a film about white supremacy.
07:56I mean, let's not get it twisted.
07:57It's a fun movie.
07:58It's a popcorn movie.
07:59It's a horror movie.
08:00It's a thriller, but it's also about these systems that appear like choices, but they aren't
08:05really choices.
08:05You know, there's a, there's a, it was really important for me to make this movie, not as
08:10an interrogation of a black woman's right to choose how she wants to present herself
08:15or how she wants to wear her hair.
08:17It's really an interrogation of a society that says, well, if you don't do it this way, well,
08:22then you're excluded from the society.
08:23If you don't, if you sort of show up the way you were made and the way you were born, well,
08:29then you're going to be excluded from these conversations and excluded from, you know, so it's really, um,
08:33you know, hair is, is really since the birth of this country has been a way to control
08:38black bodies, um, you know, by this, this, this systems of white supremacy.
08:43And I wanted to get into that.
08:44That to me is the horror that keeps me up at night.
08:47Uh, and I think like really, you know, horror movies that stand the test of time speak to
08:52a real horror, a real sense of dread that people have.
08:55And, you know, knowing that like me walking through the world, the way God made me could
08:59get me killed.
09:00As soon as what I'm trying to distill, uh, you know, through this movie about hair.
09:05No, it's, it's interesting that the timing of it, yes, it's a horror, it's comedy, but
09:10it's the messaging is so timely for right now.
09:13And I think it's going to resonate quite well.
09:16Um, but ladies, I mean, well, Justin, can you close your ears?
09:19Cause I want to ask everyone else.
09:21What was it like working with Justin on this project?
09:26Elsa kick that off.
09:28He's a monster.
09:29Okay.
09:29I'm sorry.
09:30I'm sorry.
09:31Because
09:32I was going to
09:33Elsa.
09:36Okay.
09:37Um, it was honestly, one of the dopest experiences I've had.
09:41Um, I've known Justin for a very long time and we hadn't gotten to play in that capacity
09:48ever in our lives.
09:49Um, and there was just a beautiful trust that I had for him and I trusted his overall vision.
09:56And I had to do a lot of trust because there was so much going on at one time, all of our
10:01effects were practical.
10:02So I had to, to believe his vision and my experience and know that because he's so brilliant, no matter
10:10what I was experiencing, how it would turn out, he would craft it into something brilliant.
10:14And so it was honestly a pleasure because we speak the same language, like the same creative
10:21language.
10:21Um, even in the ebbs and flows of this character, he was so gentle and he really allowed me to
10:29kind of just try, just try things.
10:32And, and you don't get that all the time.
10:35It's a, he's an actor's director and those are my favorite kinds.
10:38So it was a dream.
10:39Right?
10:40Laverne?
10:41Yeah.
10:42Uh, you know, I sort of, I was, I thought I was stalking Justin cause I was obsessed with,
10:48um, still am obsessed with Dear White People.
10:50And I just was like, I really want to work with this guy.
10:52And then I, um, we saw each other at an event and I was like, I've been sending subliminal
10:58messages and telling, literally every time I would meet someone from the cast of Dear White
11:00People, I was like, can you please tell Justin I'm going to be in the next season of Dear White
11:04People, please can you tell him that I know I tweeted too, I guess you would see the tweet.
11:08Anyway, I saw you and I was like, I would love to do something.
11:12And then, um, you brought me in for this and I just, so I was just so excited to get to
11:18work with you.
11:19And I, I, I think you're a genius as well.
11:21And when I read this script, I was like, Oh my God, this is like, this is what we need.
11:26This is what I, this, I, so I just want to, I love working with brilliant people.
11:29So it was just, I was just so happy to be on set with Justin and with the whole environment
11:35was so, I mean, it all started, the environment on set starts from the top to everyone.
11:39It was just so chill and everyone was just so happy to be there.
11:43And Elle is just so, so brilliant, so brilliant, so I had the time of my life.
11:49Lisa.
11:50Lena and Vanessa, do you want to add anything?
11:53Yeah.
11:54Go ahead.
11:55So Justin on set with Justin, as a young black director, reminded me of when I was
12:01on the set of a soul food with George Tillman, you knew that it was going to be unique and
12:07he was like absorbing everything, but you wanted to give him everything because you really wanted
12:12to win because it was, you know, he was starting out and I feel the same thing with Justin's just
12:18an issue, but he's going to be a mega mega star.
12:21And I love being, getting a chance to work with him at this stage in his, in his life
12:26because there's nothing but up from there.
12:29Yeah.
12:30I agree.
12:31I mean, Justin's like my brother, that's, that's, that's like our relationship.
12:34And so, you know, I got to be a part of this, this creative process from very, the very beginning,
12:40you know, he had done a writer's retreat that was in Palm Springs that myself and a bunch
12:44of other really cool writers, Don Davis, you know, was there, Tiffany Johnson, Angel Lopez,
12:48like this, this sort of brain trust that he brought together.
12:51And he did.
12:52I love that you took us out of our homes and out of our comfort zones.
12:55And we, and we got to be in a, we living in the same house and, and watching movies that
12:59you wanted to reference and talk about this thing.
13:01And we do, we did, there were black women, a part of this development process in terms
13:06of telling him about our horror stories and, and what we went through.
13:09And so to be on set again, but to be directed by Justin was also another experience because
13:15Justin knows my voice and he knows me so well.
13:18And he allowed me space to like, do what I do and to be myself and to be comfortable.
13:23And also, you know, and I'm, you know, I'm friends with Elle as well.
13:25And so, but we, we had never gotten a chance to work together in that way or to explore
13:30each other as artists.
13:32Really.
13:33We were just like black women, but then to work together and we, we had such different
13:37energies.
13:38So it was like a really cool thing to play with.
13:40And Justin just knew how to, we were all sort of his, we were all tools in his toolbox and
13:45he knows how to use us in the right way.
13:47And I think that's why he's so good with ensemble pieces because he needs all of these instruments
13:52to make up for this beautiful orchestra that are his sounds.
13:55Hmm.
13:56Thanks guys.
13:57I want to say you create like such a beautiful synergy on set that it's infectious.
14:02Like everybody who came on set got into line and, and we were like a family more than co-workers.
14:09Yeah.
14:10It was fun.
14:11Yeah.
14:12I got to say, I love all of the surprise guests, like Usher.
14:15Yeah.
14:16Everybody.
14:17Yep.
14:18Yeah.
14:19It's really fun.
14:20I mean, I, you know, I, I, I learned this lesson pretty early on, especially with dear
14:24white people, you know, the movies and ensemble it's about four people.
14:28But what we realized after that movie is like the main people showing up for this are
14:31black women.
14:32Um, Sam and Coco, uh, and Joelle eventually on the show, like these are the characters
14:37that are resonating the loudest.
14:38Of course there's Lionel.
14:39Who's basically me and Troy and other guys, but, um, you know, this really had, I learned
14:44with the, the show, this is about black women.
14:47This is for black women.
14:48So we, they have to be, um, integral to the creative process cause this is their showcase.
14:53And, you know, I just, I don't know.
14:54I kind of, I gained a passion for creating the work environment, uh, from doing the show
14:59that I think just kind of carried on here.
15:01And I wanted everybody, everybody was cast because not only were they talented, but they
15:05had a heart for the work.
15:07Like I remember sitting, uh, in front of Vanessa, uh, you know, in a, in a hotel lobby and there
15:13was not only is she Vanessa Williams and like amazing and also like cool somehow, but like
15:18she also was really passionate about the, like, you know, really passionate about the
15:24storytelling and, and, you know, obviously Lena and I have always been kind of working
15:28from our, our passions and what we think are important.
15:31Uh, you know, I know that I share that with Elle and Laverne.
15:34And so like, I wanted to make sure that that spirit, you know, was alive on the set, even
15:39though it was stressful and we've got hair everywhere, you know, I wanted us to all be
15:48connected to the thing we were doing and the thing that we were saying.
15:51Yeah.
15:52So we've been talking a lot about hair, your own hair journeys, how the industry is changing,
15:56but now it's time to give the people a sneak peek of this clip of bad hair.
16:04I'm not changing who I am just to appeal to some wider,
16:11wider demographic.
16:13No one's asking you to change who you are.
16:16Just the way you look, the name of your show.
16:20No.
16:21It's not that big of a deal.
16:22You know how long it took me to get here?
16:25How many interviews I've had to walk into not knowing if they wanted Angela Davis or Diane
16:30Carol or Queen Latifah or fucking Claire Huxtable.
16:34I'm sick of this shit.
16:36Come on, sister.
16:37It ain't gotta be all that.
16:39I mean, look, black women are magic.
16:41You know that.
16:42We can put our hair all the way up to the sky, drape it down to our shoulders,
16:45or come somewhere in between.
16:46Shit, Patti LaBelle changed our hairstyle 20 times in one performance.
16:49What you need is a new attitude.
16:51Yeah, but that was her choice.
16:52A career in TV was your choice.
16:54I chose a career at culture.
16:57A place where I ain't gotta look like a different bitch every week just to do what I love.
17:01Culture is dead.
17:04For real?
17:06Sister.
17:09Sister.
17:10Thank you for that.
17:13So Vanessa, you touched on this in your answer and saying that, you know, you had to start
17:18demanding that black people were there to do your hair.
17:21You had the right person for your hair.
17:22So many black stars have spoken out about Hollywood's black hair problem.
17:27But what strides would you all like to see made in the industry that would be more inclusive
17:32of textured hair?
17:33Well, I think we've made tremendous strides.
17:36I mean, again, you know, being in the business from the 80s till now, nobody would know what
17:42a textured hair was and how to deal with it.
17:45Can I put a hat on it?
17:46I mean, the fear factor of any kind of textured hair was ridiculous.
17:50And it's slowly been acceptable.
17:53And I think, you know, the industry is so scared now that everything will be accepted for sure.
18:02I think the fight is over.
18:05You know, you want to see more natural hair.
18:06When I look at television and see black women, I love seeing black women have their natural hair.
18:12Now, mind you, they're obviously, it's a preference.
18:14And that's the thing that what I love about this movie is that black women have the free,
18:18should have the freedom to decide how they want to wear their hair.
18:21I'm not trying to talk badly about women want to process their hair or wear hair or whatever.
18:25But what I do love to see is like, I love Elle, like your hair is so beautiful.
18:29All of our hair on this panel right now looks so different.
18:32And I think that's what it should look like.
18:34There should be a variety of kind of black hair on television.
18:38And I think that's what's been so exciting to me when I turn on TV.
18:41I love seeing black women with natural hair.
18:43But then also black women want to straighten it and do that too.
18:46That's also cool.
18:48I'm honestly still nervous about you wearing my own hair, honestly,
18:52having it styled and heat and not knowing what I'm going into.
18:56I'm still nervous about that.
18:58I'm like, wigs are so much easier.
19:00Like I kind of start, I don't wear wigs in real life,
19:02but like just having wigs, it's also like they're not going to destroy my hair.
19:09For me, I'm still not in a place where I'm fully secure
19:14with knowing what I'm walking into when I...
19:18That's true.
19:19Yeah.
19:20I think hair should be an expression of freedom.
19:23It shouldn't be a symbol of oppression.
19:25It shouldn't be the thing that keeps you locked into something you don't want
19:29or that, you know, makes you endure violence
19:32and your hair falling out and all this kind of stuff.
19:34You should be able to...
19:35It should be...
19:36It's an expression of your freedom.
19:37That's what it should be.
19:38Touching on what Lena said and seeing more styles of hair like on TV,
19:45I love how people are starting to represent like how multifaceted we are
19:50because we are.
19:51Like I...
19:52My hair was not even like this yesterday.
19:54I was on a whole nother level.
19:55And that's true.
19:56I know how I'm going down here.
19:57Like who knows?
19:58It's lit.
19:59It's lit.
20:00It's lit.
20:01I have fun with that.
20:02I express my personality, myself.
20:04I get to like be more of myself by not living in a box.
20:08And what you were saying about the industry, I...
20:11One thing that I would love to see is that non-people of color,
20:16like white people learning how to do our hair too,
20:18because there's so many people, Black people who've worked in the industry
20:22and people of color who've had to learn how to adapt
20:24and who can do everybody's hair.
20:25Like that's a part of their gift and their magic.
20:28And so I want to see a more inclusive system overall,
20:32because if we are going to be representing like the world we live in,
20:36then we got to do the work to do it.
20:38And that's one of the ways.
20:39And making sure that we do have Black people, you know,
20:43in trailers overseeing.
20:45Because I've definitely had some experiences where I have a twist out
20:49or something like this and then somebody puts a comment
20:51and they're like, oh, wait, let me put it back.
20:53There's no reverting.
20:55I just cringed at that idea.
20:58Like, oh, no, no, no, no.
21:00Yeah.
21:01Don't fuck up the puss out.
21:03Don't fuck up the puss out.
21:05No.
21:06No.
21:07No.
21:08No.
21:09All right.
21:10So you guys live in a, we all know about the Crown Act.
21:14If you don't know, enough people will be knowing,
21:17because it's a really important piece of legislature that was created
21:20to ensure protection against discrimination based on race-based hairstyles
21:24by extending statutory protection to hair texture and protective styles.
21:28It was first introduced in California in January 2019 and signed into law July 3rd, 2019.
21:34Today marks the one year anniversary.
21:37And to date, seven jurisdictions have passed the act into law.
21:40Why is it important that states adopt and pass this bill?
21:44Vanessa, let's start with, I mean, Laverne, let's start with you.
21:47Can we, for me, it's so shocking that we even need to have a law, right?
21:54The fact that it is so depressing and sad that we need to have a law put in place
22:00so that people won't be discriminated against because of their hair texture.
22:03That is bonkers.
22:05This is how deep the monstrous nature of white supremacy is in America,
22:11that we need to have an act so that people won't be discriminated against
22:14because of their hair texture.
22:15And so for me, that just makes me insanely sad and insanely enraged, honestly.
22:25And it's what has to happen on, in terms of our hearts and minds as Americans of all races,
22:32so that, like, so we don't have to enact laws to not discriminate against people because of who they are.
22:39Like, we just went through this with the Supreme Court, with LGBTQI folks.
22:44It's insane that this is the world we live in.
22:48I just, I don't, I think that's just insane.
22:51Yeah, my daughter, a few years back, was working at Burberry.
22:57She wore her hair in one day, in a ponytail, but it was natural slick back in a ponytail.
23:03And they wanted to send her home because they said it was too ethnic looking.
23:07And another, one of the other people on the floor kind of stood up for her, who was Latina.
23:14And she ended up leaving Burberry.
23:18She was at Hermes.
23:19Same kind of standard, where you can't have any texture in your hair at all.
23:24Has to be blown out all the time, like no wave, nothing.
23:27And she ended up, after those two incidents that she was at that particular, you know,
23:33this, we're talking Manhattan, Madison Avenue.
23:35There was a lawsuit that was actually brought up the following year.
23:40And the girl called and said, guess what?
23:42You were part of this because the same thing happened time and time again,
23:46to all women of color, who had just a little bit of, you know, I mean, they have gel in it and stuff,
23:51but it was, it was looking tight, but it had texture in it.
23:54And they said that wasn't, it made them too ethnic looking.
23:57So I understand why the act needs to be there.
24:00It's ridiculous.
24:01And this time and age, you know, retailers retail, but people are people.
24:06So I'm happy that there's been a step made and it has to be nationwide for sure.
24:11Yeah.
24:12Yeah.
24:13And the thing about, you know, because of being a person who used to have locks,
24:15I absolutely was very mindful of this sort of weird, there's this backlash
24:20or there's this odd stereotype about people who wear their hair locked
24:24and of the case about the kid getting his locks cut off by someone.
24:29That to me, it was really scary because I really loved having locks.
24:35Locks are beautiful and historic and in some cases religious.
24:40And it really is something that no one should be discriminated against
24:44because it's a real relationship.
24:46Like I had to relate.
24:47I still have my locks.
24:48I, you don't, it's energy.
24:50And so I was really very mindful of what was happening.
24:55And with that also too, obviously who mostly has locks?
24:57Black people.
24:58And just the fact that people like associated with something negative
25:02is really unfortunate.
25:04And if there needs to be a law, then let there be laws.
25:06So that way people can be free to express themselves however they choose to.
25:09Yeah.
25:10Elle?
25:11I'm really with Laverne on how, like how I'm cringing at the fact that we need a law.
25:16The fact that this has to go to like the mere fact that our worth in any capacity is put on a block as an option
25:26or that anybody gets to comment on it is absolutely ridiculous and frustrating to me.
25:33So that's just my overall statement.
25:36But on top of that, I think it's great that we're moving forward.
25:40The mere fact that we need it and we're doing it so it shows progress.
25:44And it says that all of the hard work that we're putting in to stand up for ourselves and stand up for our ancestors
25:51and stand up for our heritage is getting us somewhere.
25:54Just also painful that it takes that much.
25:58Yeah.
25:59But it's all assimilation.
26:00They want to make sure if we assimilate to what their standards are, they feel comfortable.
26:05And the fear factor is, I don't know what that is.
26:08I've never touched it.
26:09And it's always the fear factor that gets people out of control, which you can see.
26:13And the police reactions, you know, the birder chick.
26:17I mean, all that fear is what is the first thing that you go to when you don't understand.
26:22So if we don't assimilate, it means, okay, wait a minute.
26:25There's somebody that's stepping up and not listening to what I'm telling you.
26:28You're not looking like me.
26:29Your hair doesn't look like me.
26:30And it starts that whole cycle of, of, of division.
26:34So I think doing their hair like us for it to be acceptable.
26:41They get them cornrows popping.
26:43I was like, well, I mean, that's the way systems of white supremacy.
26:47Always.
26:48It's always about separating us from our natural selves.
26:51And so, or, or getting us to be suspicious of our natural selves.
26:55You know, again, like I don't, I've never felt what it is like to be a black woman.
26:59But, you know, I remember sort of having the S curl.
27:02And I remember, you know, feeling the need to keep the hair cut in a certain way, because
27:07I just naturally knew that if it was like kind of an Afro, like it would look bad.
27:11It would look messy.
27:12And I think that this law is so great because like people were firing people over being unprofessional.
27:18You know what I mean?
27:19Like the language they were able to parse it out in.
27:21Like you said, you look too ethnic.
27:23Like the way they were able to say it.
27:26With essentially saying, you know, black people are illegal or something.
27:29And, you know, it's unfortunate that racism has so many little nooks and crannies it gets
27:34to hide out in.
27:35But that was certainly one of them.
27:37Is certainly one of them.
27:38Continues to be.
27:39Yeah.
27:40We also have people persevering anyway.
27:42Like we find a way to still do it.
27:45You know?
27:46Yes.
27:47That's true.
27:48Well, hopefully we have.
27:49Well, thankfully we have bad hair now to further the conversation, to educate people and to
27:54really celebrate us.
27:56So, Justin, why don't you close when and where we can all see bad hair?
28:01Ooh.
28:02Well, okay.
28:03So, you know, Miss Rona is just.
28:05Raking.
28:06Raking.
28:07Raking.
28:08She is wrecking havoc on the theatrical releases, honey.
28:11So, you know, I don't know if and when she'll be in theaters.
28:15The plan was to be out, you know, in theaters at some point this fall.
28:20But I know for certain that it will be on Hulu just in time for Huluween.
28:25And, you know, their big sort of Halloween promotion.
28:30So, look for us in October.
28:32It is a movie you're going to want to talk to us about after you see it.
28:36Yes.
28:37I love you.
28:38I feel like there needs to be like reading material with it.
28:40I really want to see those hair stories.
28:43Essence got to do the cover.
28:45There needs to be a bad haircut.
28:46Oh, yeah.
28:47All right.
28:48Oh, yeah.
28:49Oh, yeah.
28:50Oh, yeah.
28:51Can I take a moment?
28:52Because every time Miss Vanessa Williams has said something, I've gotten goosebumps.
28:56Yeah.
28:57We've met before.
28:58Yes.
28:59But the legendariness that is Vanessa Williams.
29:02Can we just take a moment?
29:04Yeah, let's do it.
29:05Oh, first.
29:09Vanessa Williams, we must do it publicly.
29:12Yes.
29:13That you are so everything and that you're still doing it.
29:17And so amazing.
29:18I love you so much.
29:20You've been a huge inspiration literally my whole life.
29:22Aw.
29:23And thank you.
29:24Love you so much.
29:25I thought I could do it here.
29:27I love you.
29:28I love you so much.
29:29Aw.
29:30People like Justin, you know, a lot of times folks don't want to work with those young,
29:35amazing, exciting directors.
29:36And also she came and hooked us up on 20th.
29:39Mm-hmm.
29:40So it's like, you know, thank you for being an icon that's also willing to look back and
29:45help raise us up and make sure we're doing the right thing.
29:49So we appreciate you very much.
29:51That's the most rewarding.
29:52All right.
29:53All right.
29:54All right.
29:55All right.
29:56All right.
29:57All right.
29:58All right.
29:59All right.
30:00I also, I mean, we've had this conversation, but just how generous you are working with
30:06you was incredible.
30:07I was so nervous, but you were such a warm presence to be around and such a great teacher
30:14in ways that you didn't even realize you were being an example for me.
30:17So thank you.
30:18I adore you.
30:19And then I called you and said, I found out you're a tennis.
30:23Tell that quick story.
30:24Okay.
30:25Can I tell it?
30:26Okay.
30:27So I'm a huge tennis fan.
30:28Vanessa is a huge tennis fan.
30:31Vanessa goes to the US Open every year.
30:34That's one of my bucket list things.
30:36And she had to fly back to New York for fashion week.
30:39And she called me Friday morning on the way to work and was like, I got an extra ticket
30:43if you want to come to the championship with Serena Williams.
30:46And I was on my way to work.
30:47Like I'm buying a ticket once I get there.
30:49And so I left set straight to the airport, like didn't need to go home to get clothes and
30:56took a red eye, landed.
30:58And Vanessa was my favorite godmother and the US Open and my dreams came true.
31:04And that was, that was the game that Serena got penalized and Naomi Osaka.
31:10It was, we were there.
31:11It was a crazy situation.
31:13Very dramatic.
31:14Wow.
31:15That was history.
31:16It was history.
31:17Justin, you want to give Vanessa?
31:19Well, I love Vanessa too.
31:20And I just want to worship her as well.
31:22I, you know, honestly, somebody as talented and iconic as Vanessa does not have to be cool.
31:28Like that's just the truth.
31:29We're all in Hollywood.
31:30We know it.
31:31But the fact is, is that she is incredibly cool.
31:35And when I say cool, I mean, she's authentic.
31:38She's aware that she's Vanessa Williams, but she also knows, you know, she, she's like one
31:43of the, she's just one of the folks on the team and, and just really willing to do what
31:48everyone else was doing.
31:50Uh, get on the floor in the middle of a pile of weave and hot glue and scream and do all
31:57of this stuff without pretension, uh, knowing good and well, choose Vanessa Williams.
32:02And then I have to say on the other side, it's getting to watch the coverage.
32:06That's when you really know it's like in every take she was giving, it was like surgical.
32:12It was like, oh, you might need this.
32:13You might need that.
32:14And you might need this.
32:15And you might need that.
32:16You might need that.
32:17It was really, I think it inspired all of us so much.
32:20And just thank you for, for being yourself, honestly.
32:23And, and I think one of the reasons why all of us had such a good time on set.
32:27I love you all.
32:28We love you.
32:29Thank you everyone.
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