00:00I'll bring in on this broadcast our political panellists as well.
00:03We've got R.P. Singh, spokesperson of the BJP,
00:06and Anshul Avijit, national spokesperson of the Congress.
00:09Good evening, gentlemen. Thank you for your time.
00:10Anshul, I'd like to begin with you on the statement made by Rahul Gandhi.
00:14Look, it's one thing to question, Anshul,
00:16the tariffs that have been imposed by Trump,
00:18the impact of it, which is what Rahul Gandhi has done.
00:20But is it an exaggeration then to follow that up
00:22by calling India a dead economy?
00:26No, no, absolutely not.
00:28In fact, I think, you know, Mr. Gandhi put it rather mildly.
00:31I'm going to go even further.
00:33The economy has been systematically been destroyed
00:37and killed by this government,
00:40beginning with demonetization,
00:42completely destroyed India's backbone.
00:44If you remember after that,
00:45the GDP precipitated to levels that were,
00:49they came down even further during COVID.
00:51Then there was that clunky GST that took 11 years to get a reform.
00:55You know, I just heard Siddharth say that 2025 was the year of reform.
00:59If you're going to take seven years to reform a bad law,
01:04then you can imagine the pace in which the government is moving.
01:07We are absolutely doomed in that case.
01:09Then after GST came a lowering of corporate tax,
01:13they removed it.
01:13They thought it would, you know,
01:15somehow unleash animal spirits in private investment.
01:18That didn't happen.
01:19Then you had COVID,
01:20where household savings completely permitted.
01:22You've got decreasing investment in health and education
01:26that is seen by the budget year after year.
01:28Akshita, go and have a look at it.
01:30Please go and have a look at it.
01:32And time and again,
01:33the macro figures that are emerging are absolutely disturbing.
01:37Now, I'll just give you one macro figure.
01:39You'll say that the GDP in the Q2 was 8.2%,
01:42but the nominal GDP was 8.9%.
01:45So the real and nominal GDP are, you know,
01:48being technical here, moving in opposite directions.
01:51That's a clear disastrous sign.
01:53Your wholesale price index is barely nothing,
01:56which means there's no demand.
01:57There's no private investment.
01:59That's one of the questions Rajdeep also asked.
02:01Where is the private investment?
02:03And mind you, anyone who goes to Davos,
02:07you know, you have a large contingent people.
02:09It's a capitalist corporate gathering.
02:12Do you think anyone is going to say a bad thing?
02:14Do you know India is doomed?
02:16What kind of expect?
02:16Why not?
02:17I should not know that.
02:17I should not know that.
02:18Come on, these are global economies.
02:20They have no skin in the game.
02:22No, no, no, no, no.
02:23There, it's a different...
02:24Come on.
02:25Nobody's obvious there.
02:26They won't get visas next time to come to India.
02:28What are you saying?
02:29You know what happened to academics.
02:30Like Geeta Gopinath would not talk about pollution.
02:32She would not be honest and candid about pollution.
02:35Exactly my point.
02:36They moderated their replies by saying,
02:38no, our policy is fickle.
02:40It's got to look at again.
02:42The pollution is not there.
02:43Rajdeep asked the question about lack of transparency in data,
02:47which clearly shows you haven't had a national census in the last 11, 12 years.
02:53You just started it now.
02:54That means all your data coming in is to 2011, right?
02:58How can you develop economic policies if you don't know the population of your country?
03:03And therefore, it's a lack of transparency.
03:05It also said, the last gentleman that Rajdeep spoke to said that India is not in the conversation in the global economy.
03:12He said, China versus America, that you hear, we are completely marginal players.
03:16That is seen from the MAGTRO data, the FDIs that are coming in.
03:20I can go on and on, Akshita.
03:21This is my favorite topic.
03:23And, you know, I can just go on.
03:25Akshita, I will have a follow-up question for you.
03:27But let me give a chance to the BJP first to make their opening comments.
03:30Mr. R.P. Singh, go ahead.
03:32You've heard Akshita there talk about how and why the Congress believes that India is a dead economy.
03:37Your response.
03:38Well, Akshita, there's a part in the brain which is called palatial cortex.
03:46Probably Rahul Gandhi has a problem with that.
03:49That's why I see his palatial cortex being dead.
03:52That's why he keeps doing this and saying what he keeps saying.
03:56Indian economy is dead.
03:58We are the number four economy in the World Cup with Japan.
04:02I mean, how could we have done that good?
04:04We were among the 11th when UPA was there.
04:09And we have done much better.
04:10But coming to what's happening, our GDP is ongoingly growing from the last many quarters.
04:16And it still will grow.
04:17This is how all the world rating agencies, IMF, World Bank, feels about it.
04:22Secondly, almost 25 crore people have been brought out of the poverty line, above the poverty line.
04:28This is not my data.
04:29It's again World Bank which has said so.
04:32That we have almost 25 crore people have been brought out on the poverty line.
04:35And I still remember the welfare schemes, the money spent on welfare schemes, almost 50 lakh crore rupees,
04:40which we have spent in the last few years, and out of which has reached to every individual
04:46which was targeted with that welfare scheme.
04:50Unlike earlier, when it used to be only 15% which used to go and 85% used to be siphoned off
04:56or used to be filled, there was a filled fridge of 85%.
04:59We remember when we got the, we came to power, the state of the banks were, what was the state of the banks?
05:07Banks were in shambles.
05:09Today, banks are robust and doing well.
05:11And also, SBA is among the Fortune 500 companies in the world today.
05:16Not only that, let's talk about how we have grown on airways, roadways, railways, metro, bridges, rural roads.
05:25Every year, 11 lakh crore rupees is being spent on infrastructure itself.
05:31So, these are the parameters for the growth of economy.
05:34And also, how can we forget the defense?
05:36We used to always procure, almost import, 90% of the defense equipment.
05:42Today, we are producing, give me another second, we are doing almost 70% of the domestic production
05:48on the defense and how to forget the space technology.
05:51We are the cheapest in the satellite launch in the world and in the world where various countries
05:56are tying up with us for their satellite launches.
05:59So, on every parameter, we are doing good.
06:02Even on social parameters, we are doing good.
06:05As for generation of self-employment, there are schemes of the government which alone has
06:11been given to almost 42 crore people where self-employment has been generated.
06:16So, we are in what times when the world is in difficult times?
06:22And we are doing much better than various other economies in the world today.
06:25Anshul, you want to respond to that?
06:27That at a time when we have seen a lot of turbulence across the world,
06:30there are so many economists who, of course, you are choosing to say it doesn't matter
06:34what they have to say, but they are highlighting the fact that India is doing well.
06:38And in the face of an unpredictable Trump, God knows what he is going to throw at any country
06:43next.
06:43In the face of that, you know, the way India has chosen to respond, many, many experts have
06:49chosen to hail.
06:49I will highlight for you what the economist itself has spoken of.
06:52Speaking of Prime Minister Modi's economic pragmatism, they have said this reformist turn deserves
06:57praise.
06:58No, you know, Akshita, if you choose to look at the figure that India is, you know, a whatever,
07:06$4 trillion economy and, you know, weigh that against our economic progress, then that's
07:12highly misleading.
07:13It's a complete smokescreen because you have to look at the per capita GDP.
07:18Some people may be making a lot of money that may have skewed figures.
07:21Do you know, according to all the inequality reports that are coming in, 1% of the population
07:28owns 40% of India's resources.
07:31That truly cannot be the parameter to which to judge.
07:35No, Mr. R.P. Singh, I respect a lot.
07:37He's shown a lot of figures.
07:38Let me just respond to them.
07:39They're not inaccurate.
07:41Can I just respond to him?
07:42You know, he's a stable advocate.
07:44No, just look at the real figures.
07:46Which world are you leading into?
07:48Are you leading into a world, into a future where you celebrate a figure like 20?
07:53That may go to $8 trillion.
07:55It's not going to go beyond that because the economy is not progressing.
07:58There is a cloud of doubt against the GDP figure, which Mr. R.P. Singh also closed, which is
08:038.2%, because all your other macroeconomic indicators are terrible.
08:08Your FDI, your net FDI, which is capital inflows in India, your net FDIs fell to 96% last year.
08:17People are pulling their money out.
08:19They're not investing in India.
08:21Your PLI scheme, which is supposed to be Akshita, your flagship scheme, which also
08:25Farid spoke about in that interview.
08:27Let me just tell you a bit about it.
08:29You spent 2 lakh crores in making mobile sets, which are largely imported from China.
08:34You assemble them, and then you send them back and say that you've done a great deal.
08:38You spent 2 lakh crores in that investment.
08:41The government claims that they have made employment of 12 lakh employment by spending 2 lakh crores.
08:49They have claimed that.
08:50We don't even know how much employment has gone.
08:53This is complete imbalance.
08:54This realisation is an absolute disaster.
08:59All your economic indicators.
09:01By the way, your hunger index, you're 105.
09:03Your human development index, you're 140 out of 190.
09:07No, but you're also cherry picking here, Anshu.
09:09You're also cherry picking here.
09:11No, I'm looking at...
09:12You're choosing to ignore the positive side of it.
09:14I acknowledge...
09:15You know, what is the definition of a dead economy?
09:17What is the definition of a dead economy ultimately?
09:19That there is gross levels of iniquity.
09:24That few people make a lot of money, and the rest, which is reflected in your...
09:28These are macro figures, by the way, reflected in your per capita and all the reports that have come out.
09:33Nobody spoke about India's iniquity.
09:35Did anyone ask the question about what about your GDP, what about your global hunger index, what about your human development index?
09:42These are also, you know, foreign organisations.
09:45When you quote World Bank and say how great India we are doing, you should quote other organisations...
09:49No, so you're quoting World Bank, World Bank, you also quote a future upgrade, a GDP, fourth largest economy.
09:54None of that matters.
09:55You're ignoring all of that.
09:56No, no, I'm telling you it doesn't matter, because that money is controlled by, you know, your high frequency indicators.
10:02I admit, I'm not disputing what Mr. R.P. Singh is saying.
10:06Your high frequency indicators show a wonderful picture.
10:09That means rich are getting richer.
10:11Companies are making a lot of money.
10:13The stock market is going high.
10:14Where are they spending their money?
10:15They're not putting it in private capital, because that was Rajiv's question, right?
10:19It's everybody's question.
10:21They're not, what are they doing?
10:22They're de-leveraging.
10:23That means they're settling off their debt.
10:25The books are really robust, and they're making a lot of money.
10:28Where is the money going?
10:29Mr. R.P. Singh, your response, please.
10:32The Congress saying, essentially, rich getting richer, poor getting poorer in India.
10:37Well, Akhita, how many bridges, how many flyers, how many roads?
10:42I mean, can you imagine the road infrastructure?
10:43Actually, today, we are one of the best in the world today, as far as the road infrastructure goes.
10:49The, not the highways, the airports have been doubled.
10:53The hospitals have been doubled.
10:54I mean, all that generates employment.
10:57I mean, when you build up roads, it generates employment.
10:59And also, as I told you, the Prime Minister's self-employment scheme,
11:03there's almost 42 crore people who have taken small-scale loans from 50,000 to 5 to 10 lakh rupees.
11:09But they're also generating employment.
11:11And that is also generating employment.
11:13But the issue is, I mean, as I said, the man suffers from patrial cortex.
11:17I mean, you can't help him because Mr. Rahul Gandhi is a problem.
11:20No, no, Mr. R.P. Singh, let's stick to data.
11:21Let's stick to data and facts, please.
11:23Let's stick to data and facts to counter what the Congress has said, what you have to say.
11:26No, no, I told you.
11:26I just now told you.
11:27I just now told you.
11:29Okay.
11:29So you have highlighted...
11:30Give me a second, give me a second, give me a second.
11:33More than 16 crore people were given public, sorry, toilets.
11:39I mean, obviously, the money would have gone into it.
11:41It would have generated employment.
11:43I mean, you can build up 16 crore toilets without generating employment.
11:48The scheme for housing, more than 4 crore people were given houses last year, last five years.
11:56I mean, obviously, that would have generated employment.
11:58I mean, it can't be done in the thin air.
12:02So all these segments which are generating employment, they are being overlooked by my Congress friend.
12:08Okay, okay.
12:09You know, ultimately, ultimately, you can look at the data whichever way you want.
12:14You can cherry pick which side of the debate you want to be on and figure out what you really think of India's economy either way.
12:20But thank you very much, gentlemen, for joining me, Mr. R.P. Singh and Anshul Avajit for your time and for joining us here on To The Point.
12:25We leave it to you, the viewer, to decide whether you agree with Rahul Gandhi or not.
12:29Is India a dead economy or when economists say that India is thriving, India has got a great growth story, do you agree with that version?
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