At Jaipur Literature Festival 2026, policy thinker Arun Maira and economist A.K. Bhattacharya examine India’s economic thinking, challenges, and future reforms in conversation with Mohit Satyanand, presented by Vedanta.
#JaipurLiteratureFestival2026 #JLF2026 #IndianEconomy #EconomicPolicy #IndiaGrowth #PublicPolicy #DevelopmentEconomics #EconomicReforms #Vedanta #IndiaDebate
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#JaipurLiteratureFestival2026 #JLF2026 #IndianEconomy #EconomicPolicy #IndiaGrowth #PublicPolicy #DevelopmentEconomics #EconomicReforms #Vedanta #IndiaDebate
~HT.178~
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NewsTranscript
00:00Today was Army Day, so the inauguration began late.
00:08Arun, unfortunately, protocol has eaten a little bit into our time.
00:13So let me jump straight into it.
00:15You begin this book with a deep touch of empathy
00:18for the young people who knock at our doors, knock at our windows,
00:22and are unable to find jobs,
00:25despite all the promises of a rapidly growing nation.
00:28Now, you began your career in the Planning Commission in 2009
00:34with the mandate to improve employment and industry.
00:392014, we moved over to the NITI AYOG,
00:43and one of the biggest programs that was launched by the NITI AYOG
00:47was Make in India.
00:49So it's been 16, now 17 years,
00:51about talking about manufacturing and employment.
00:53I would go so far as to say that in terms of the structure of the nation,
00:59the structure of the economy, nothing has changed.
01:02What happened?
01:04Thank you so much, Mohit.
01:06You put a question to me about what has happened from 2009 onwards,
01:13but I want to step back.
01:14I was a child of India, born on the 15th of August, actually,
01:20four years before India became independent in 1947.
01:23At that time in 1947, we made a vow, a tryst with destiny,
01:31a very famous speech of our Prime Minister,
01:34which still rings in my ears,
01:36where he said that India has woken up,
01:38and we promised ourselves two things.
01:41One is, we would never be bullied
01:43by a large industrial foreign country again.
01:48We would build our own industries,
01:51we would become self-reliant
01:53and proud of our own capabilities
01:55and not talked down to by other countries
01:59who felt they were more advanced than we were.
02:03One.
02:04Number two, the tryst with destiny was,
02:06in Mahatma Gandhi's phrase,
02:08well,
02:09Poorna Suvaraj.
02:11Equal opportunities, equal freedoms
02:14for all Indian citizens,
02:16men, women, Hindus, Muslims,
02:19whatever languages they spoke,
02:22equal freedoms politically,
02:23which we got perhaps by a universal franchise,
02:27and equal freedoms also socially,
02:31which we still haven't got.
02:33The caste system is pernicious still,
02:35and equal freedoms economically.
02:39It means equal opportunities to learn and earn,
02:41and which is the point that you come to.
02:44And here we are,
02:45we took off that journey,
02:46and I grew up in that India.
02:48And I landed in the Planning Commission in 2009 only,
02:51but before that, Mohit,
02:53I did work with the Tata Group,
02:55and the Tata Group
02:56had always been building Indian industry
03:00and helping Indians to learn how to do things,
03:04industrial things,
03:05as well as anyone else in the world,
03:08even during the dark days,
03:10when the British were ruling our country.
03:14What happened after that,
03:15we embarked on that journey to build our own industries in India,
03:19and I must say,
03:21by 2000 and,
03:23not 2000 even,
03:24excuse me,
03:25by 1989,
03:26when I broke off from Tata's
03:28to go on a sabbatical to the United States,
03:30for some personal reasons,
03:33we had in India,
03:34my organization,
03:35Tata's,
03:35been building in India,
03:37trucks and buses,
03:39designed by Indians,
03:40made by Indians,
03:42exported from India
03:43to 50 countries around the world
03:45before 1991.
03:47In competition with the Japanese,
03:49the Germans,
03:49the Americans,
03:50and the British,
03:51and we did quite well.
03:52Not at the lowest prices also,
03:54by the way,
03:55at higher prices than the Japanese.
03:57We could do it.
03:59We could do it.
04:01China at that time,
04:02and I want to bring in China into the picture,
04:05China at that time did not have,
04:06as high quality industrial enterprises
04:09as we had built.
04:11Few we had,
04:13but China had none of that quality at that time.
04:16So, industrially,
04:17China and India were,
04:18you may say,
04:19comparable in some ways.
04:21In terms of poverty,
04:22which is the story
04:23that I want to just focus on,
04:26before 1947,
04:28India was a very,
04:29very poor country.
04:32Capabilities had been denuded by the British.
04:34We were prevented from building our own industries.
04:38We had to import and buy industrial goods made by Britain.
04:42Indian people were being exported by the British as labour
04:46on industrial plantations in Malaysia,
04:49Mauritius, Caribbean.
04:51This is what India was being used for
04:54by our colonial masters.
04:57After 1947,
04:59poverty did reduce in India.
05:01It did.
05:03And it was reducing,
05:04and so was it in China,
05:06which also broke up in the 1940s after the war.
05:10It was reducing there.
05:11But in 1989,
05:13the numbers I have,
05:15China was a bit poorer than India,
05:19per capita incomes,
05:20and the GDP was comparable.
05:23Then I forced forward to 2009.
05:25I'm invited by the Prime Minister
05:27to join the Planning Commission
05:29with these two questions.
05:31He said,
05:31what happened?
05:32We were growing as well as China,
05:35reducing poverty also,
05:37and creating employment as well as China was.
05:39And here we are,
05:41then in 2009.
05:43Yes,
05:44we have reduced poverty
05:45even further up to 1991.
05:49But look what China has achieved.
05:51And in terms of industry,
05:53look where China is.
05:55They were producing,
05:56by that time already in 2009,
06:00electronic hardware
06:01and telecom equipment,
06:02which we were importing
06:03from then even then.
06:06And many other industrial goods,
06:07machinery,
06:08they were selling
06:09not just to us
06:10but around the world.
06:11And today,
06:11if you fast forward,
06:13look where China has reached.
06:14And we are still,
06:15as you point out,
06:16at a place
06:17where we are now
06:18dependent on China
06:19for industrial goods
06:22as also is the US.
06:23And the Prime Minister asked,
06:25who is a very good man,
06:25I said,
06:26sir,
06:26I don't know economics.
06:28He said,
06:28that is why
06:29I have you in the Planning Commission.
06:30There's something
06:31about the framework
06:32of economics.
06:32which the Indian economists,
06:35including myself,
06:36he said,
06:36very humbly,
06:37are wedded to.
06:38I can't get out of it.
06:39I'm in it.
06:40You can from outside say,
06:42what is it about
06:43the way we think
06:44about an economy,
06:47about a nation
06:48that is preventing us
06:49from achieving
06:50what we could have,
06:51should have,
06:52and which China has achieved?
06:54And I could tell you
06:55what the answers
06:56to the questions are.
06:57Yeah, well,
06:58I think it's a good time
06:59to ask Vidya
07:00what she thinks.
07:01You've also tracked
07:02this journey
07:02between a time
07:05in the early 80s
07:06when China set on
07:07its path for reform
07:08and are now
07:09five times ahead of us
07:10not to put too fine
07:12a number of it.
07:12What do you think
07:13China did
07:14which India was not able to do?
07:21So before that,
07:22what I want to say
07:23is we club India
07:24as a country
07:26and we say that
07:27nothing has changed
07:28and it is same
07:2915-17% of GDP
07:31comes from manufacturing.
07:33But if we see
07:33at sub-national level,
07:35there are states in India
07:36which are like mini-China.
07:38So if you see
07:39on a per-person basis
07:40purchasing power parity,
07:42there is Tamil Nadu,
07:43there is Gujarat
07:44who is at the same level
07:45of PPP per capita income
07:47as China.
07:48So it is not
07:49that we have not moved
07:50but manufacturing
07:51has remained concentrated
07:52in just four or five states
07:54which are something
07:55like 60 plus percent
07:57of India's total manufacturing
07:58and the manufacturing
07:59needs to scale up
08:01and move up north
08:02because that's where
08:03majority of the jobs
08:04are required
08:05in manufacturing,
08:06especially low-skilled manufacturing
08:08and that is what India has failed.
08:10How to transmit,
08:11how to scale up,
08:13that is where we failed.
08:14Not that we have not done anywhere.
08:16It's how to do another Jamshedpur.
08:18You know,
08:19that's the thing,
08:19how to scale up
08:20to Tata's level
08:21because even if I see
08:22in Tamil Nadu now
08:23where I stay
08:23for past 10 years,
08:25local youth
08:26has got highly educated,
08:28right?
08:28So 50-60 percent
08:29of people have degrees,
08:30young adults have degrees.
08:32They do not want
08:33to work in low-skilled
08:33manufacturing.
08:34That's why,
08:35you know,
08:35the state is going
08:36after electronics,
08:37you know,
08:37Apple,
08:38then it becomes
08:39a status symbol.
08:40I'm working for Apple.
08:41You know,
08:41no longer I'm a,
08:42you know,
08:42you have to say
08:42that I'm on the factory floor.
08:44So it is the distribution
08:45of manufacturing
08:46that is what
08:47we should be worried about
08:48and why the states
08:49where manufacturing
08:49is required
08:50has not grown
08:51and we know that.
08:52Second thing is
08:53we must accept somewhere
08:54that if we are not able
08:56to export enough,
08:58manufacturing to GDP
08:59in India
08:59will almost never rise
09:01above 20 percent.
09:04Why is that?
09:04And China exactly
09:05is the exposed story
09:06of manufacturing
09:06and why is that?
09:08Because if we think
09:09about ourselves,
09:10we never spend
09:10more than 20 percent
09:11of our income
09:12on manufacturing goods.
09:14So if we don't spend
09:15more than 20 percent
09:15of income
09:16on manufacturing
09:16in locally,
09:18only that much
09:18only can get produced.
09:20Rest of it
09:20has to be exported.
09:22And so then
09:22we have to think
09:23about why refined
09:24petroleum,
09:25which is very
09:26capital intensive,
09:27we have no raw material,
09:28labor share of income,
09:30you know,
09:30value added in refined
09:31petroleum is only
09:32less than 10 percent.
09:33Why refined petroleum
09:34ended as India's
09:35largest goods export
09:36for so many years?
09:37Right?
09:38So we know the story,
09:39we can get into it
09:40some other time.
09:41So why labor intensive
09:42manufacturing has failed
09:44in north of India
09:45is the key thing
09:45that we need to look at.
09:47Thanks so much.
09:48Vidya,
09:48I want you to just
09:49put one number
09:50on this factory
09:52north-south divide,
09:54which is that
09:54in Tamil Nadu,
09:55I ran the numbers,
09:56you have about
09:57500 factories
09:58per 1 million people.
10:00In Bihar,
10:01can anybody guess
10:02the number?
10:0522.
10:07522.
10:08That's the extent
10:09of the north-south divide.
10:10But AKB,
10:11I still call you AKB.
10:13What is your take
10:15on the China-India
10:16K-shaped development?
10:19Yeah,
10:19thank you for
10:20this discussion.
10:22And I have
10:24a brief response
10:25to this specific
10:26question of yours.
10:28I think number one,
10:30the share of
10:33employment in agriculture
10:35continues to rise
10:37in this country.
10:38although its share
10:40in total GDP
10:41is declining.
10:42So what we are seeing
10:43is an agriculture sector
10:45with 48%
10:47of its workforce
10:47in agriculture
10:48and producing
10:50only 16%
10:51of the economy.
10:52And it is actually
10:53declining.
10:54So essentially,
10:55unproductive
10:56and over-dependence
10:58on agriculture
10:59and our economic policies
11:01with the last
11:02several decades
11:03have failed
11:04to take
11:05that workforce
11:06away
11:07from agriculture
11:08and whatever
11:10we have been able
11:10to do,
11:12can you believe it
11:13that 90%
11:15of our workforce
11:16is still in the
11:17unorganized sector?
11:18Now why
11:19is these two
11:20big things
11:20that have happened?
11:22One
11:22is
11:23that 90%
11:25of unorganized
11:26sector employees
11:27and 48%
11:28of total workforce
11:29in agriculture.
11:31I think
11:32we have failed
11:33to focus
11:35adequately
11:36on primary
11:37and secondary
11:38education.
11:39We have failed
11:40to focus
11:40adequately
11:41on skilling
11:42and reskilling.
11:43and I dare
11:45say
11:45that we have
11:46also failed
11:47to look
11:48at two
11:48other social
11:49infrastructure
11:50which is
11:51healthcare
11:51and water.
11:54And if I may
11:55add
11:55with that
11:56is a looming
11:57challenge
11:58of climate.
11:59Now in all
12:00these areas
12:00if only we
12:02had focused
12:02on making
12:03sure
12:04that our
12:04agriculture
12:05became more
12:06productive
12:06if we had
12:07managed
12:07to skill
12:08those
12:09agricultural
12:10employees
12:10and take
12:11them away
12:12from there
12:12and put
12:13them in
12:14productive
12:14jobs
12:15in the
12:15secondary
12:16sector
12:16which is
12:17the
12:17industry
12:17or even
12:19even if
12:20the tertiary
12:20sector
12:21which is
12:21the services
12:21sector
12:22where we
12:22redeployed
12:23them
12:23they are
12:24into
12:25by and
12:26large
12:26if you
12:26look at
12:26the skill
12:27levels
12:27it is a
12:28very very
12:28ordinary
12:29and basic
12:30level.
12:30So I
12:30think
12:31why we
12:32did not
12:32do well
12:33as well
12:33in China
12:34I think
12:35essentially
12:35lies
12:36in our
12:36basic
12:37policy
12:37on why
12:38we did
12:39not do
12:39enough
12:40on primary
12:41and secondary
12:42education
12:42we focused
12:43a lot
12:43on the
12:44higher
12:45education
12:45and we
12:46did exceedingly
12:46well
12:47but that
12:47higher
12:48education
12:48product
12:49have
12:49actually
12:49as
12:50somebody
12:51said
12:51that
12:52they are
12:52leaving
12:52India
12:53they are
12:53going
12:53out
12:53so there
12:54is a
12:54migration
12:55that is
12:55happening
12:55so whatever
12:56you have
12:56produced
12:56on the
12:57higher
12:57education
12:57the
12:58IITs
12:58and the
12:59IAMs
12:59they are
12:59all sitting
13:00abroad
13:00and they
13:01are occasionally
13:01coming to
13:01India
13:02things like
13:03Yairpur
13:03Literature
13:03Festival
13:04so that's
13:05the problem
13:06we have
13:06not focused
13:07on the
13:07primary
13:08requirement
13:08which is
13:09primary
13:09education
13:10secondary
13:10education
13:12that's the
13:13real difference
13:14between
13:14China and
13:15India
13:15Vidya
13:16I wanted
13:17to say
13:17something
13:18so I
13:20just wanted
13:21to say
13:21from our
13:22recent work
13:23though
13:24you know
13:25agriculture
13:25share in
13:25employment
13:26overall
13:26remains high
13:27if we
13:28see young
13:28adults
13:29which is
13:29people in
13:3020s
13:3020 to
13:3129
13:31less than
13:3215%
13:33work on
13:33farms
13:34and in
13:34several
13:35states
13:35it's even
13:36less than
13:3610%
13:37so young
13:38people
13:38really
13:39are not
13:40on farms
13:41in fact
13:41in many
13:41areas
13:42farm
13:42wages
13:43are higher
13:43than
13:43non-farm
13:44wages
13:44in rural
13:45area
13:45but they
13:46may re-enter
13:47you are
13:47right sir
13:48they re-enter
13:49even women
13:49have re-entered
13:50into you know
13:51farming after
13:52the age of
13:5230-35
13:53because there is a
13:54distress on
13:55household income
13:56but actual
13:57structural transformation
13:58in terms of
13:59young people
13:59has happened
14:00but if we
14:01don't generate
14:02non-farm jobs
14:02then people
14:03eventually go back
14:04especially women
14:05you know
14:05end up going
14:06after COVID
14:07they end up
14:08going back
14:09but on
14:09the same note
14:10for example
14:11if we compare
14:11I know
14:13from West
14:13Bengal
14:14West Bengal
14:17was more
14:17prosperous
14:18purpose and
14:19basis
14:19relative to
14:20Tamil Nadu
14:21in 1980s
14:22that is not
14:22that long ago
14:23right
14:24and so West
14:25Bengal could
14:25have been
14:26Tamil Nadu
14:26but Tamil Nadu's
14:27per capita income
14:28is now five
14:28times West
14:29Bengal
14:29and I
14:31think
14:31you know
14:32we know
14:33like you asked
14:34why China
14:34we know
14:35the importance
14:36of law
14:36and order
14:37we know
14:37the importance
14:38of policy
14:39certainty
14:39you know
14:40we know
14:41the importance
14:41of land
14:42acquisition
14:42and all that
14:43so yeah
14:44also the China
14:45what they did
14:46one thing
14:47which we may
14:48not know
14:48is local
14:49governments
14:49were very
14:50highly empowered
14:51right
14:51so the local
14:52governments
14:52city governments
14:53you know
14:54provinces government
14:55they could raise
14:56their own revenue
14:57and that's why
14:58there was a
14:58competition
14:58between the
14:59provinces
14:59to get
15:00but here
15:01our model
15:01is lot of
15:02it is on
15:02central transfers
15:04you know
15:04at the state
15:05level
15:05and the city
15:05level
15:06it is even
15:06worse
15:07so you know
15:08most of our
15:09living standard
15:12or how we feel
15:12about life
15:13depends on our
15:14day to day
15:14experiences
15:15so you know
15:17something like
15:1710,000 people
15:18taking a train
15:19once long
15:19distance
15:20that is different
15:21from thousand
15:22people taking
15:22you know
15:23same train
15:24or transport
15:24locally
15:25you know
15:25200 times
15:26a year
15:27right
15:28so that welfare
15:28impact is much
15:29later
15:30so local
15:30infrastructure
15:31becomes much
15:32more important
15:32for how city
15:33functions
15:33and so on
15:34so that's
15:35why we need
15:35I feel
15:36much more
15:36you know
15:37emphasize
15:37housing
15:38we are building
15:39one reason
15:40it will become
15:41even more
15:41important
15:42to integrate
15:43the fragmented
15:44agriculture land
15:45in India
15:46because now
15:47we have a policy
15:47whereby
15:48we are giving
15:48subsidy
15:49to build
15:50houses
15:50in rural
15:52areas
15:52right
15:53that's where
15:53we don't have
15:54jobs
15:55we need affordable
15:55housing in urban
15:56areas
15:57right
15:57so the migration
15:58happens to urban
15:59areas
15:59but there is
16:00almost no
16:00affordable housing
16:01for migrant
16:02families
16:02and we do
16:03work with them
16:03there is no
16:04housing
16:05so family
16:05stays back
16:06in the rural
16:06area
16:07where now
16:07the house
16:08is already
16:08built
16:08with the
16:09state subsidy
16:10with the
16:10central subsidy
16:11right
16:11which they
16:12cannot rent
16:12out
16:13so family
16:13is there
16:14and you
16:15know
16:15the man
16:15migrates
16:16and man
16:16is this
16:17side
16:17so we
16:18have to
16:18shift the
16:19focus
16:19you know
16:19housing
16:20in terms
16:20of urban
16:21affordable
16:22housing
16:22much more
16:23than building
16:23housing stock
16:24where you
16:25know jobs
16:25are not
16:26there
16:26so maybe
16:26these are
16:27some of
16:27the
16:27policies
16:28yeah
16:29exactly
16:30you know
16:32we came to
16:33local governance
16:34came to
16:35housing
16:35came to
16:36public
16:37transportation
16:37these are
16:39the usual
16:39debates we've
16:40been having
16:40when I was
16:41in planning
16:41commission
16:41I was also
16:42responsible for
16:43urbanization
16:44and I could
16:45see even in
16:45urbanization
16:46the philosophy
16:48was that
16:49build those
16:50cities
16:50put more
16:51money into
16:52Bombay
16:52because that
16:53time
16:54presently
16:54Bombay was
16:55contributing
16:56per capita
16:57and per
16:57unit of
16:58land
16:58much more
16:59to GDP
17:00than a
17:00city in
17:00Bihar
17:01so we
17:01were
17:01diverting
17:02our
17:02resources
17:03to success
17:04so where
17:04there's
17:04success
17:05put more
17:06money behind
17:06it
17:06we
17:07this was
17:08a new
17:08thing
17:08before
17:091990s
17:10the philosophy
17:11was backward
17:12areas
17:12and that's
17:13right the
17:13Tata
17:14factories
17:14HESC
17:15many came
17:15in those
17:16back
17:16there would
17:16have been
17:17big industries
17:18in those
17:19areas
17:19but we
17:20shifted
17:20we said
17:21firstly
17:21public sector
17:22is a bad
17:23idea
17:23now when
17:24you're going
17:24to poorer
17:25states
17:26and as
17:27you said
17:27the private
17:28sector won't
17:28go until
17:29it's easy
17:30for them
17:31to go
17:31the public
17:31sector is
17:32forced to
17:32go
17:32and if
17:33we then
17:33change our
17:34minds
17:34after 1991
17:35and said
17:36the public
17:37sector is
17:37bad in
17:37education
17:38in health
17:39in industry
17:40let's
17:40privatize
17:41everything
17:42you cannot
17:43build
17:44social services
17:45and institutions
17:46which are
17:47serving a
17:47social purpose
17:49privately
17:50so let me
17:51say I want
17:52to just point
17:53out I'm not
17:54an economist
17:54and therefore
17:55I'm still
17:55hearing from
17:56the economist
17:57perspective
17:57the arguments
17:58what is
17:59competition
18:00and how is
18:01competition
18:02abilities built
18:03competitive ability
18:05you learn it
18:06it's not an
18:07endowment
18:07it's a natural
18:08endowment
18:08so in the
18:09theory of trade
18:10Ricardo's
18:11theory of trade
18:12if you have a
18:13natural endowment
18:14like Portugal
18:15and you have
18:16good sun
18:17and soil
18:17grow wine
18:18and export your
18:20wine all over the
18:20world
18:21and please
18:22there's a
18:22British saying
18:22it
18:23we have this
18:24endowment of
18:25industrial capability
18:26buy our
18:27industrial goods
18:28but did the
18:28British have
18:29industrial capabilities
18:30and endowment
18:31100 years before
18:32no
18:32they learnt it
18:34nations
18:36and people
18:37and enterprises
18:38we learn
18:39capabilities
18:40so if you look
18:40at the progress
18:41of development
18:42of any country
18:43it's a history
18:44of how they
18:44learned to do
18:45things that they
18:46could not do
18:46before
18:47and those
18:48countries that
18:48learn faster
18:49than others
18:50acquire competitive
18:51abilities that they
18:52did not have
18:53before
18:53this is China's
18:54story
18:54China is a much
18:56faster learner
18:57than India
18:58has been
18:59particularly I'm
19:00saying after
19:011991
19:01when we changed
19:02our philosophy
19:03or economics
19:04to say
19:05you know
19:05just do the
19:06things that
19:07you can naturally
19:08do and import
19:08the rest
19:09build your trade
19:10but don't build
19:11your industry
19:12and
19:13here
19:14in the competitive
19:15advantages
19:15if you have in a
19:16competitive world
19:17where you don't
19:18have all the
19:18endowments
19:19you must build
19:20your technologies
19:21your competitive
19:22advantage
19:23on the resources
19:24that you have
19:25much more of
19:26and therefore
19:26the Middle Eastern
19:27countries
19:28Saudi Arabia
19:29and around them
19:30they've built
19:31very good industries
19:32and very good
19:33economies
19:34based on the
19:36use of oil
19:37okay
19:38but we
19:39what do we have
19:40more of than
19:40every other country
19:41human beings
19:42and our models
19:43of production
19:44in the private sector
19:45are the
19:46productivities
19:47defined by
19:48how few people
19:49you employ
19:50I'm saying
19:51please
19:51like the
19:52Japanese did
19:53after the war
19:54and the
19:54Chinese have
19:54done
19:55you must
19:56have small
19:57industries
19:57which employ
19:58more people
19:59and less
19:59capital
19:59we are not
20:00endowed
20:00with capital
20:01we are
20:02endowed
20:03by God's
20:03grace
20:04more human
20:04beings
20:05than elsewhere
20:05and Vidya
20:06it's not
20:07necessary
20:08that Bihar
20:10have the same
20:11pattern of
20:11industrialization
20:12in the United
20:14States
20:14do you think
20:15Kansas has
20:16the same
20:17number of
20:17California
20:18big industries
20:18and Illinois
20:19no
20:20there are
20:21natural
20:21endowment
20:22advantages
20:23and you
20:24build
20:24clusters of
20:25competence
20:26in different
20:26parts
20:27so Bihar
20:28should not
20:28be like
20:29Tamil Nadu
20:29I'm not
20:31saying Bihar
20:32should have
20:32same
20:33manufacturing
20:33as Tamil Nadu
20:34at all
20:34means Bihar
20:35should go
20:35by its own
20:36advantage
20:37and own
20:37comparative
20:37advantage
20:38but just
20:39that Bihar
20:39and UP
20:40should have
20:40more manufacturing
20:41that's about
20:42it
20:43or if not
20:43manufacturing
20:44wherever they
20:45have advantage
20:45it can be
20:46crafts
20:46it can be
20:47festivals
20:48it can be
20:48many other
20:49things
20:49I want to
20:51take you up
20:51on one
20:52particular phrase
20:53that you
20:53used
20:54which is
20:54about
20:54privatizing
20:56there's not
20:56been much
20:57privatizing
20:57of the public
20:58sector in
20:59India
20:59I want to
20:59push back
21:00on that
21:00what we
21:02have seen
21:02what we
21:03did see
21:03prior to
21:04Indira Gandhi's
21:05time
21:06we saw
21:06the opposite
21:06Mohit
21:07I have to
21:08just interrupt
21:08you
21:09because you
21:09see
21:09we have to
21:10save time
21:11if I hear
21:11you talking
21:12the same
21:13old way
21:13with the
21:13same way
21:14of thinking
21:14I must
21:15interrupt
21:15you
21:15we have
21:16not got
21:16as much
21:17privatization
21:18as we
21:18should have
21:18had
21:181991
21:19we wanted
21:20to privatize
21:20I want to
21:21say to you
21:22since I was
21:22comparing with
21:23China
21:23they've achieved
21:24something which
21:24we haven't
21:25did they
21:26privatize their
21:26financial sector
21:27like we
21:28are attempting
21:29to do
21:29even today
21:30they don't
21:30and the
21:32US kept
21:32blaming China
21:33to say
21:34oh
21:34you cheated
21:35you kept
21:36your public
21:36sector
21:37undertaking
21:37so large
21:38and the
21:39story is
21:39this Mohit
21:40that in
21:401991
21:41we became
21:43intellectual
21:44slaves of
21:45American
21:45economics
21:46there
21:47because IMF
21:48here to
21:49take the
21:49loan
21:49thereafter
21:50our
21:50economic
21:50policies
21:51have been
21:52taught to
21:52us from
21:53American
21:54academic
21:55institutions
21:56Indians
21:56who are
21:57professors
21:57there
21:58have become
21:58our
21:58economic
21:59advisors
21:59China
22:00did not
22:02China
22:04did not
22:05I will
22:08tell you
22:09I will
22:09just
22:09touch upon
22:10two
22:10issues
22:11one was
22:11the
22:11privatization
22:12other is
22:13the
22:13elephant in
22:14the room
22:15which is
22:15the governance
22:16structure
22:16I don't
22:18think we
22:18have
22:18reformed
22:19the
22:19governance
22:20structure
22:20in this
22:20country
22:21in spite
22:21of many
22:22many
22:22laudable
22:23legislative
22:24initiatives
22:24we talked
22:25about the
22:26third year
22:26of governance
22:27I think
22:27our third
22:28year governance
22:28is a joke
22:29and whether
22:31it is the
22:31steel frame
22:32or the
22:32civil service
22:33whoever has
22:34sort of
22:35you know
22:35clustered
22:37it in a
22:37certain way
22:38and kept
22:39its ability
22:40to function
22:41as freely
22:41as efficiently
22:43and effectively
22:43as possible
22:44is a matter
22:45of bigger
22:46debate
22:46but I think
22:47it is time
22:48that we
22:49need to
22:50focus
22:50on what
22:52really happens
22:53at the
22:53third year
22:54of governance
22:54instead of
22:55what really
22:56happens
22:56in New
22:57Delhi
22:57and unless
22:59we change
23:00that focus
23:00from New
23:01Delhi
23:01to towns
23:03the third
23:04tiered
23:04towns
23:04two tier
23:05towns
23:05I don't
23:06think
23:07we will
23:07be able
23:08to change
23:09the way
23:10we are
23:10reimagining
23:11India
23:12that's number
23:12one
23:12number two
23:13a quick
23:14short point
23:14is about
23:15privatization
23:16yes of course
23:17I entirely
23:17agree with
23:18you that
23:18we should
23:19not have
23:19borrowed
23:20madly
23:21and blindly
23:22about this
23:22privatization
23:23model
23:24but what
23:24China did
23:25was they
23:26did not
23:26privatize
23:27but they
23:28made that
23:29public state
23:29owned sector
23:30more effective
23:31and more
23:31efficient
23:32and more
23:33you know
23:34addressing
23:35and responding
23:37to the
23:37market
23:38principles
23:38they did
23:39not
23:39compromise
23:40on that
23:40what we
23:41did was
23:42we kept
23:42our public
23:43sector
23:44a kind
23:45of
23:46a prisoner
23:47of the
23:48political
23:48class
23:48and I
23:49don't think
23:49it is a
23:50good thing
23:50and even
23:51when we
23:51do privatize
23:52now
23:52we are
23:53using it
23:54only for
23:55a fiscal
23:55purpose
23:56of meeting
23:57your fiscal
23:57deficit
23:58which is
23:59something
23:59that you
24:00want to
24:00spend
24:00without
24:01earning
24:01the
24:02revenue
24:02so I
24:03think
24:03our
24:03privatization
24:04whatever
24:04little
24:05has
24:05happened
24:05is
24:06purely
24:06guided
24:07not
24:07by
24:07reform
24:08but
24:08by
24:09meeting
24:09your
24:10fiscal
24:10requirements
24:10so I
24:11think
24:11both
24:11the
24:11governance
24:12front
24:12as well
24:13as
24:13the
24:13privatization
24:14front
24:14we
24:14have
24:15left
24:15a lot
24:16to be
24:16desired
24:16in fact
24:18Arun
24:18when we
24:19were talking
24:19earlier
24:19you said
24:20and I
24:21think
24:21this is
24:21very
24:22noteworthy
24:23that
24:23actually
24:24despite
24:24being a
24:25socialist
24:25nation
24:26in
24:27many
24:27ways
24:28in
24:28terms
24:28of
24:28governance
24:28China
24:29is
24:29a lot
24:30more
24:30democratic
24:30than
24:31India
24:31do you
24:31want to
24:32expand
24:32on that
24:32yes
24:33what is
24:35democracy
24:36democracy
24:36is
24:37governance
24:37of the
24:39people
24:39for the
24:40people
24:41and
24:41by
24:42the
24:42people
24:42okay
24:43of the
24:43people
24:44means
24:44you
24:44form
24:44your
24:44government
24:45of
24:45your
24:46own
24:46people
24:46and
24:46not
24:47some
24:47foreign
24:47people
24:47yes
24:48and
24:48you
24:48can
24:48select
24:49them
24:49in
24:49different
24:50ways
24:50elections
24:51or
24:51whatever
24:52they
24:52emerge
24:52it's
24:53a
24:53government
24:53of
24:54your
24:54people
24:54and
24:55must
24:56always
24:56at the
24:56point
24:56of
24:57government
24:57be
24:57for
24:57the
24:57people
24:58not
24:58for
24:58private
24:59individuals
25:00or
25:00for
25:00the
25:00private
25:00sector
25:01it's
25:01for
25:01the
25:02poorer
25:02citizens
25:02it is
25:03for
25:03those
25:03who
25:03don't
25:04have
25:04the
25:04power
25:04who
25:04don't
25:05have
25:05the
25:05resources
25:05that's
25:06the
25:06purpose
25:06of
25:06government
25:07okay
25:08so it
25:08has to
25:09be
25:09for
25:09the
25:09people
25:09but
25:10in
25:10real
25:10democracy
25:11it
25:12is
25:12also
25:12government
25:13by
25:13the
25:14people
25:14that
25:14means
25:14locally
25:15the
25:16people
25:16must
25:16be
25:17participating
25:18in
25:18the
25:18decisions
25:19about
25:19what
25:19infrastructure
25:20is being
25:20built
25:21who
25:22gets
25:22the
25:22priority
25:22this
25:23okay
25:24and
25:25this
25:25is
25:25where
25:25China
25:26has
25:26been
25:26very
25:27very
25:27good
25:27China
25:29is
25:29highly
25:29democratic
25:30why
25:30because
25:31the
25:31communist
25:32party
25:32a single
25:33party
25:33knows
25:34that
25:34if
25:35the
25:35people
25:35are
25:35unhappy
25:36on the
25:36ground
25:36there
25:37will
25:37be
25:37a
25:37revolution
25:38so
25:38the
25:38people
25:39of
25:39China
25:39today
25:40are
25:40so
25:40happy
25:41with
25:41China
25:41the
25:41younger
25:42people
25:42in
25:43the
25:43latest
25:43few
25:44surveys
25:44they
25:45say
25:45they're
25:46much
25:46happier
25:47with
25:47China's
25:47form of
25:48governance
25:48and
25:48Chinese
25:49have
25:50been
25:50to
25:50the
25:50US
25:50than
25:51the
25:51US
25:51and
25:51of
25:51course
25:52young
25:52people
25:52in
25:52the
25:52US
25:52are
25:53not
25:53happy
25:53about
25:54the
25:54US
25:54form
25:54of
25:54governance
25:55and
25:55what
25:55is
25:55it
25:56about
25:56the
25:56Chinese
25:56form
25:56of
25:56government
25:57I said
25:57this
25:57that
25:58they
25:58build up
25:59their
25:59carders
26:00from
26:00the
26:00bottom
26:01the
26:01people
26:01who
26:02rise
26:02up
26:02in
26:02that
26:02party
26:03are
26:03people
26:03who
26:03have
26:03demonstrated
26:04that
26:05on
26:05the
26:05ground
26:05they're
26:06able
26:06to
26:06carry
26:07the
26:07people
26:07and
26:08to
26:08support
26:08the
26:08party
26:09the
26:09party
26:10is
26:10working
26:10for
26:10you
26:11we
26:11bring
26:11our
26:12authority
26:12but
26:13what
26:13do
26:13you
26:14want
26:14and
26:14we
26:14make
26:14it
26:15happen
26:15the
26:15Chinese
26:16politician
26:16is
26:17very
26:17good
26:17at
26:17the
26:18politics
26:18of
26:18implementation
26:19our
26:20politicians
26:20are
26:20very
26:21good
26:21at
26:21the
26:21politics
26:21of
26:21elections
26:22well
26:23said
26:24we
26:25talked
26:25a little
26:26bit
26:26about
26:26law
26:27and
26:27order
26:27you
26:27talked
26:27about
26:28law
26:28and
26:28order
26:28I
26:29think
26:30we
26:30need
26:30to
26:30expand
26:30on
26:30this
26:31a
26:31little
26:31bit
26:31more
26:31when
26:32I
26:33toured
26:33Bihar
26:34a couple
26:34of
26:34years
26:34ago
26:35and
26:36asked
26:37this
26:37question
26:38why
26:38there
26:38are
26:38so
26:39few
26:39factories
26:39in
26:40Bihar
26:40and
26:41the
26:41uniform
26:42answer
26:42I
26:42got
26:43was
26:43can
26:44you
26:44find
26:45anybody
26:45who
26:45is
26:46willing
26:46to
26:46set
26:47up
26:47a
26:47factory
26:47in
26:47Bihar
26:48and
26:48the
26:48answer
26:49was
26:49not
26:49labor
26:49you
26:52know
26:52if
26:53I
26:53were
26:53to
26:53come
26:54in
26:54things
26:55are
26:55changing
26:55a
26:55little
26:56bit
26:56I
26:57think
26:57order
26:57is
26:57being
26:58restored
26:58but
26:59probably
27:00we
27:00need
27:00to
27:01do
27:01on
27:01law
27:01side
27:02but
27:02I
27:03think
27:03if
27:03you
27:03look
27:03at
27:04the
27:04governance
27:05structure
27:05whether
27:06it
27:06is
27:06Uttar
27:06Pradesh
27:07or
27:07Bihar
27:07there is
27:08a lot
27:08of
27:09focus
27:09on
27:10restoring
27:10order
27:11and
27:12particularly
27:13the
27:14corporate
27:14capital
27:15to be
27:16protected
27:16and
27:17to
27:17make
27:17sure
27:18that
27:18the
27:18corporate
27:18capital
27:19is
27:19not
27:19played
27:20around
27:20with
27:20so
27:21I
27:21think
27:21to
27:21that
27:22extent
27:22there
27:22is
27:23an
27:23attempt
27:23by
27:24the
27:24new
27:24governments
27:25in
27:25the
27:25last
27:25few
27:26years
27:26to
27:26restore
27:27order
27:28to
27:28what
27:29extent
27:29the
27:29law
27:30is
27:30enforced
27:30I
27:31think
27:31we
27:31can
27:31have
27:31a
27:31different
27:32debate
27:32so
27:33I
27:33mean
27:33you
27:34know
27:34whether
27:34it
27:34is
27:34you
27:35know
27:35in
27:36my
27:37view
27:37a
27:37great
27:37initiative
27:38of
27:38one
27:38district
27:38one
27:39brand
27:39and
27:41the
27:42kind
27:43of
27:44the
27:44manufacturing
27:44facilities
27:45that
27:45are
27:45coming
27:46around
27:46the
27:47mobile
27:48phone
27:49manufacturing
27:49systems
27:50I
27:51think
27:51these
27:51are
27:51all
27:52good
27:52signs
27:53but
27:53I
27:53think
27:53we
27:54have
27:54to
27:54move
27:54a
27:55lot
27:55more
27:55distance
27:56before
27:57we
27:57achieve
27:57what
27:57we
27:57need
27:58to
27:58achieve
27:58but
27:58mobile
27:59phones
27:59Apple
28:00we
28:00are
28:00still
28:00talking
28:00about
28:00Tamil Nadu
28:01we
28:01are
28:01talking
28:02about
28:02UP
28:03I
28:04mean
28:04the
28:04largest
28:05Samsung
28:05factory
28:06is
28:06in
28:07UP
28:07and
28:07Dixon
28:08which
28:08produces
28:09supplies
28:10a
28:12large
28:12number
28:12of
28:13components
28:14to
28:15many
28:15of
28:15these
28:16units
28:16has
28:17got
28:17a
28:17cluster
28:18of
28:18factories
28:18in
28:19Uttar
28:19Pradesh
28:19and
28:20they
28:20are
28:20very
28:20happy
28:20about
28:20the
28:20order
28:21I
28:22mean
28:22the
28:23governance
28:24guys
28:24will
28:24not
28:25be
28:26enforced
28:27so
28:27therefore
28:28we
28:28need
28:28to
28:29say
28:29that
28:29things
28:29are
28:30changing
28:30but
28:31not
28:31changing
28:31at
28:31the
28:31same
28:32pace
28:32that
28:32we
28:32need
28:32to
28:32you
28:33know
28:34I
28:35be
28:35talking
28:36governance
28:36right
28:36economics
28:38I don't
28:38think
28:39economics
28:39knows
28:39anything
28:40about
28:40governance
28:40if I
28:41might
28:41say
28:41so
28:41economics
28:43Nobel
28:44prizes
28:44the
28:45first
28:45woman
28:46to
28:47get
28:47a
28:47Nobel
28:47prize
28:47in
28:48economics
28:48after
28:4863
28:50men
28:51had
28:51got
28:52the
28:52prize
28:52and
28:52this
28:53was
28:53in
28:532008
28:54or
28:54something
28:55when I
28:55joined
28:55the
28:55planning
28:55commission
28:56and
28:57what
28:57was
28:57the
28:57Nobel
28:57prize
28:58for
28:58about
28:59how
28:59local
28:59communities
29:00govern
29:01their
29:02natural
29:02resources
29:02in an
29:03equitable
29:04fashion
29:04and a
29:04sustainable
29:05fashion
29:05she came
29:06to India
29:07to the
29:07planning
29:07commission
29:08and
29:08Nobel
29:08prize
29:08so
29:09we
29:09wanted
29:09the
29:09planning
29:09commission
29:10also
29:10to
29:10hear
29:11her
29:11and
29:11she
29:12was
29:12humble
29:12like a
29:12woman
29:12kept
29:13smiling
29:13and
29:14we
29:14say
29:15something
29:15we want
29:15to learn
29:16something
29:16from you
29:16she said
29:17I've
29:17come to
29:17India
29:18to go
29:19to
29:19Hyderabad
29:20where
29:20all the
29:21people
29:22are doing
29:22local
29:22work
29:23women
29:23led
29:23mostly
29:24community
29:25work
29:25on the
29:25environment
29:26all over
29:27and building
29:28livelihoods
29:28like
29:28SEVA
29:29and other
29:29organizations
29:30I come
29:31here every
29:31four or
29:31five years
29:32I do
29:32my
29:32research
29:32here
29:33India
29:33is the
29:33best
29:34example
29:34in the
29:35world
29:35of
29:35communities
29:36governing
29:36themselves
29:37but we
29:37don't look
29:38at that
29:38as a
29:39solution
29:39we're
29:39looking
29:40for
29:40what we
29:41can
29:41learn
29:41from
29:41elsewhere
29:42the
29:42second
29:42woman
29:43to get
29:44the
29:44Nobel
29:44prize
29:44is
29:45here
29:45Esther
29:45Duflo
29:46for
29:46micro
29:47economics
29:47here
29:47in
29:47Rajasthan
29:48and
29:49again
29:49the role
29:50of women
29:50in the
29:51governance
29:51so I
29:52want to
29:52just pick
29:52up the
29:52thread
29:53there is
29:53a feminine
29:54way
29:54of
29:55organizing
29:56a feminine
29:57way of
29:57being
29:58a feminine
29:59way of
29:59helping others
30:00and building
30:01families and
30:02communities
30:02and there's a
30:03masculine way
30:03of running
30:04armies and
30:04fighting armies
30:05let's hear from
30:06the
30:06woman
30:06so on
30:12this point
30:13I
30:14more than
30:14100%
30:15of course
30:15agree with
30:15you
30:16so all
30:19of
30:19you know
30:20all of
30:20our work
30:21shows
30:21that if
30:22we see
30:22employed
30:23men and
30:23women
30:24women spend
30:25on an
30:26average
30:26much lesser
30:27time at
30:27workplace
30:28than men
30:28but if
30:29you add
30:30up paid
30:30and unpaid
30:31household
30:32work
30:33you know
30:34put together
30:35women's
30:36work day
30:36is much
30:37much longer
30:37on an
30:38average
30:39than a
30:39man's
30:40work day
30:40and lot
30:41of it
30:42remains
30:42invisible
30:43going
30:44ahead
30:44one thing
30:45that is
30:45going to
30:46change
30:46in next
30:46few
30:46years
30:47is the
30:48amount
30:48of care
30:49that will
30:49have to
30:49be given
30:50for the
30:51elderly
30:51in the
30:51households
30:52India
30:52already has
30:53150 million
30:54elderly
30:54people
30:55most of
30:56them live
30:56with the
30:56families
30:57this will
30:58touch
30:58about 350
30:59million
30:59by 2050
31:00so unless
31:01we build
31:02some elderly
31:02care
31:03you know
31:03system
31:04most of
31:04it will
31:05be within
31:05the
31:05families
31:06most of
31:06it is
31:07done by
31:07women
31:08you know
31:08even now
31:09so I
31:10think the
31:10role of
31:10women in
31:11holding
31:11the families
31:12you know
31:13together
31:13and the
31:14villages
31:14together
31:15and system
31:15of course
31:16that one
31:17thing perhaps
31:17our state
31:18governments know
31:19that's why
31:19most of the
31:20transfers that
31:20happen from the
31:21state in terms
31:22of cash
31:22in most of the
31:23states they go to
31:24the women's
31:25account
31:25no offense to
31:26any men here
31:27but the evidence
31:27shows that if you
31:28go to the men's
31:29account the
31:29money you know
31:31it goes
31:33it doesn't come
31:33for the household
31:34you know
31:35household or the
31:36you know for the
31:36children's education
31:37it goes
31:38somewhere else
31:39so yeah
31:40indeed it's
31:41it's very
31:41primary the
31:42central role
31:43for the
31:43women
31:43three of
31:44those senior
31:45citizens are
31:46sitting here
31:46with you
31:47on this issue
31:48of law and
31:49governance and
31:49economics
31:50there is
31:53there is a
31:55whole body of
31:55work on economic
31:56freedom and
31:57what it does
31:59for economic
31:59growth
32:00and there are
32:01various indicators
32:02but what is
32:02really noteworthy
32:03is that the
32:04one indicator
32:06which correlates
32:07most highly
32:08to economic
32:09growth
32:09is law and
32:11order
32:11much more
32:13than sound
32:14money
32:14freedom to
32:15trade etc
32:16etc
32:17and I just
32:18want to go
32:18back to the
32:19point that if
32:19you break that
32:20down
32:21it can be said
32:22we're seeing
32:22more order
32:23we're not seeing
32:24more law
32:24we're not seeing
32:25better governors
32:26if you look at
32:28contract enforcement
32:29which is something
32:31which is primary
32:32to any business
32:33decision
32:33India ranks
32:34at the bottom
32:35around the world
32:37if you look at
32:38the number of
32:38people who are
32:39under trial
32:40have not been
32:41sentenced
32:42and are in jail
32:43India has the
32:44highest ratio
32:45in the world
32:45it's 67%
32:47that shows a
32:48complete abrogation
32:50of any concept
32:51of law
32:52so I think
32:53you know
32:53order is
32:54something which
32:55also exists in
32:56fascist societies
32:57but unless you
32:59have law
32:59you're not going
33:01to attract
33:01that's the question
33:02what law
33:03you see
33:04the history
33:04of human
33:05development
33:06is a conflict
33:08between property
33:09rights
33:09and human
33:11rights
33:11property rights
33:13is a foundation
33:13of law
33:14and have been
33:15for eons
33:16everywhere
33:16that a man
33:17or a woman
33:18man
33:19must have
33:20the right
33:21to protect
33:21his property
33:22and whatever
33:23he owns
33:24is his
33:24and no one
33:25else dare
33:26touch it
33:27and you can
33:28go to court
33:28if someone
33:29is infringing
33:29on your
33:30property rights
33:30human rights
33:32is a very
33:32recent idea
33:33just 200
33:34odd years
33:35ago
33:35and that
33:36all human
33:37beings
33:37men and
33:38women
33:38have equal
33:39rights
33:39even the
33:40United States
33:41did not get
33:41the same
33:42rights
33:42until 100
33:42years ago
33:43or less
33:43and that
33:44black people
33:45should have
33:45the same
33:46rights
33:46as white
33:46people
33:47the US
33:47is still
33:47struggling
33:48poor people
33:49should have
33:50the same
33:50right
33:51to shape
33:52the laws
33:52we're still
33:54struggling
33:54with that
33:54I'm saying
33:55to you
33:55listen to
33:56the rich
33:57people
33:57about what
33:58the laws
33:58should be
33:58they're
33:59better
33:59educated
34:00they have
34:00more
34:00power
34:00in
34:01democratic
34:02governments
34:02they lobby
34:03and they
34:03influence
34:04the laws
34:04so it
34:05is how
34:05the laws
34:06are framed
34:06and what
34:07the laws
34:07are about
34:08and this
34:08is the
34:09genuine
34:09democracy
34:09that the
34:10process
34:10of shaping
34:11our
34:11policies
34:12the process
34:12of shaping
34:13our laws
34:13is not
34:14hearing the
34:14voices
34:15of the
34:15powerless
34:16people
34:16that's
34:17very well
34:17founded
34:18but nevertheless
34:19the point
34:19is
34:19that's a
34:20separate
34:20process
34:21framing
34:21the laws
34:22but
34:22because
34:23sometimes
34:24you have
34:25to resist
34:25bad laws
34:26you have
34:26to resist
34:26bad laws
34:27if yes
34:28if someone
34:29says
34:29that look
34:30the black
34:31people should
34:32not be
34:32allowed to
34:32ride in
34:32a bus
34:33we are not
34:33having that
34:35discussion
34:35the discussion
34:36we are having
34:37is about
34:37laws which
34:38exist
34:39changing the
34:40laws is a
34:40different matter
34:41we have
34:41processes for
34:42that
34:42we are talking
34:43about laws
34:43I am sorry
34:44if Mahatma Gandhi
34:46says it's a
34:47bad law
34:47it is your
34:48duty to
34:48resist
34:48it
34:49I am not
34:50denying
34:50that
34:50the problem
34:52here is
34:52not bad
34:53laws
34:53the problem
34:55here is
34:55of enforcement
34:56and when
34:57you want
34:57to enforce
34:58even a
34:58good law
34:59and if
34:59you enforce
35:00it with
35:00your own
35:01political
35:02or social
35:02biases
35:03then you
35:03have a
35:04problem
35:04and I
35:05think
35:05the
35:05challenges
35:06that we
35:06face today
35:07is that
35:08kind of
35:08challenge
35:08exactly
35:09the lack
35:10of
35:10enforcement
35:10we have
35:11completely
35:12run out
35:12of time
35:12we have
35:12got three
35:13and a half
35:13minutes
35:13questions
35:14first a
35:15question
35:16from
35:16Vikram
35:17here
35:17sorry
35:18and then
35:18from that
35:19lady
35:19there
35:19and then
35:19we will
35:20see
35:20somebody
35:20get a
35:21mic
35:21here
35:21to
35:21Vikram
35:22in the
35:22front
35:22row
35:23and then
35:23that
35:23lady
35:24over
35:24there
35:24and
35:24then
35:24if
35:24we
35:24have
35:25time
35:25yeah
35:25can you
35:33give him
35:33this
35:33mic
35:33check
35:34hello
35:35can you
35:36hear me
35:37yeah
35:37thank you
35:38very much
35:39for the
35:40panel
35:40only we
35:41can hear
35:41you
35:41Vikram
35:42it's not
35:42coming
35:42over the
35:43page
35:43please
35:43take
35:44this
35:44yeah
35:47it's
35:47okay
35:47yeah
35:49thanks
35:51for the
35:52panel
35:52discussion
35:53I was
35:54a bit
35:54surprised
35:55as an
35:55entrepreneur
35:56myself
35:56I was
35:57a little
35:57amazed
35:58that
35:58talking
35:59of
35:59economic
35:59growth
36:00and
36:00development
36:00no one
36:02on the
36:02panel
36:03spoke
36:03about
36:03the
36:04role
36:04of
36:04entrepreneurs
36:04and the
36:05vibrancy
36:05of business
36:06and even
36:07China's
36:08growth
36:08in fact
36:10came on
36:11the back
36:11of a
36:12huge
36:13influx
36:13of
36:14entrepreneurialism
36:15from
36:16outside
36:16China
36:17including
36:18capital
36:18technologies
36:19and everything
36:20else
36:20so I
36:21was just
36:21wondering
36:22what
36:22accounts
36:23for this
36:23gap
36:24and if
36:24you are
36:24going to
36:25reimagine
36:25India's
36:26future
36:26without
36:27considering
36:27this
36:27vital
36:28aspect
36:28will
36:29the
36:29imagination
36:30lead
36:30to
36:30much
36:31great
36:32question
36:32I learned
36:35something
36:35Peter Drucker
36:37the great
36:37management
36:38consultant
36:38he would
36:39say he
36:40used to
36:40interview
36:41presidents
36:41and they
36:41talked
36:42to the
36:42vice
36:42and presidents
36:43of companies
36:43also
36:44and he
36:44said
36:45you know
36:45I have
36:46an hour
36:46with them
36:47and I
36:47don't want
36:48to waste
36:48my time
36:49asking
36:50them to
36:50give me
36:51the facts
36:51because every
36:52intelligent
36:52person can
36:53find the
36:54facts to
36:54suit his
36:55opinion
36:55I always
36:56start by
36:56asking what
36:57is your
36:57opinion
36:58and here
36:58it comes
36:59that when
36:59we have
36:59a theory
37:00that it
37:01must be
37:01private
37:02entrepreneurship
37:02we look
37:03for all
37:03the stories
37:04that there
37:04were private
37:05entrepreneurs
37:05but if I'm
37:06saying there
37:07was actually
37:07public sector
37:08which was
37:09being nurtured
37:10public sector
37:10which was
37:11being improved
37:11I'll give
37:12you that
37:12story
37:12that's a
37:13very big
37:13story
37:14so there
37:14are many
37:14many stories
37:15we pick
37:15and choose
37:16what suits
37:17our theory
37:18and this
37:18is where
37:19the learning
37:19I'm saying
37:19if you
37:20are going
37:21to really
37:21learn
37:22do not
37:23start off
37:24with a
37:24hypothesis
37:25and find
37:25the evidence
37:26to prove
37:26your hypothesis
37:27open and say
37:27what should
37:28be the
37:28question
37:28yeah in fact
37:30we had
37:31entrepreneurship
37:32and innovation
37:33and I think
37:33we just
37:34didn't get
37:34there in
37:35terms of
37:35time
37:35but I
37:36do think
37:37entrepreneurship
37:37among young
37:38people in
37:38India is
37:39amazing
37:39you know
37:40I'm
37:40associated
37:41with
37:41emergent
37:42ventures
37:43grant
37:44and they
37:45give grant
37:45to lot
37:46of young
37:46teenage
37:47entrepreneurs
37:47but it
37:48is the
37:49issue
37:49that what
37:49happens
37:50to them
37:50later on
37:51you know
37:51how they
37:52scale up
37:52whether there
37:53is market
37:53access
37:54you know
37:54those are
37:55the things
37:55we are
37:55falling short
37:56so no denying
37:57the importance
37:58of entrepreneurship
37:59only thing
37:59eventually they
38:00will need
38:01to get
38:01large
38:01to create
38:02jobs
38:02otherwise
38:03several
38:03otherwise
38:04entrepreneurship
38:05in India
38:06is much
38:06more than
38:07we need
38:07most of
38:08the employment
38:09is self
38:09employment
38:09in India
38:10so by
38:10nature
38:11that is
38:11you know
38:12entrepreneur
38:13but we
38:13don't want
38:13that kind
38:14of entrepreneurship
38:15right
38:15see we want
38:16a different
38:16kind of
38:16entrepreneurship
38:17so
38:17you know
38:18I just
38:19tell you
38:19it's a
38:19very important
38:20point
38:20I think
38:21India
38:21is facing
38:22a challenge
38:23where entrepreneurship
38:24is kind of a
38:27demise of sorts
38:28I'll tell you why
38:28it's because
38:29the financialization
38:31of the Indian
38:31economy
38:32has been so
38:32strong
38:33that today's
38:34entrepreneurs
38:34the next generation
38:35of entrepreneurs
38:36are actually
38:37finding it easier
38:38to use that money
38:39and financializing
38:40and working
38:41against
38:41you tell me
38:42you tell me
38:42one thing
38:43the ease
38:45of doing
38:45business
38:45the much
38:46used phrase
38:47in this
38:47country
38:47is it
38:49creating
38:49enough
38:49ease
38:50of doing
38:50business
38:51here
38:51why is it
38:52that we
38:52have a
38:52net FDI
38:53which is
38:53zero
38:54this is
38:55because
38:56the same
38:56guys
38:57who have
38:57the money
38:58and the
38:58surplus
38:58they are
38:59probably
38:59you know
39:00reinvesting
39:01abroad
39:01we're going
39:03to take
39:03two more
39:03minutes
39:04based on
39:05the fact
39:05that we
39:05started
39:06late
39:06we'll take
39:07a question
39:07from the
39:07lady
39:08there
39:08we
39:10talked a
39:12little bit
39:12about
39:12bad laws
39:14but ideally
39:14I was
39:15curious
39:15we've seen
39:16a recent
39:17sort of
39:18weakening
39:18of the
39:19labour laws
39:20in India
39:20over the
39:21past few
39:21years
39:22and what
39:22that
39:23means
39:23for
39:24young
39:25and
39:25old
39:25people
39:26working
39:26I just
39:28wanted
39:28to get
39:29your
39:29thoughts
39:29do you
39:30think
39:30this
39:30is
39:30a
39:30sort
39:31of
39:31political
39:33thing
39:34that
39:34we
39:34can
39:34see
39:35will
39:35fix
39:36itself
39:36or
39:36do you
39:37think
39:37it's
39:37a
39:37worrying
39:38trend
39:38where
39:39it's
39:39going
39:39to
39:39back
39:40slide
39:40and
39:41India
39:41is
39:42sort
39:42of
39:42going
39:42to
39:42be
39:43susceptible
39:44and
39:45it
39:45be a
39:45place
39:46where
39:46people
39:46can
39:47some
39:48issues
39:48be
39:48able
39:49on
39:49and
39:50I'd
39:53like
39:54to
39:54because
39:54this
39:54is
39:54my
39:55subject
39:55in
39:55the
39:55planning
39:55commission
39:56yes
39:56I
39:57think
39:58I
39:58would
39:58just
39:58say
39:59one
39:59thing
39:59like
39:59on
40:00both
40:00entire
40:00service
40:01sector
40:01in
40:01India
40:01is
40:02to
40:02the
40:02entire
40:02IT
40:03sector
40:03the
40:04labor
40:04activity
40:05is
40:05very
40:05high
40:05and
40:06that
40:06is
40:07you
40:07know
40:07of course
40:07there
40:07are
40:08many
40:08other
40:08reasons
40:08why
40:09manufacturing
40:09did not
40:10succeed
40:10and
40:11IT
40:11service
40:11succeed
40:12you
40:12know
40:13I
40:14can't
40:14do
40:14far
40:14much
40:15physical
40:15infrastructure
40:15and
40:16all that
40:16such
40:16land
40:17and
40:17all
40:17and
40:17so
40:17forth
40:18but
40:18also
40:18there
40:18is
40:19total
40:19level
40:19flexibility
40:20on both
40:20the
40:20sides
40:21right
40:21on the
40:22involved
40:22side
40:22and
40:23on the
40:23involved
40:23side
40:23and
40:23these
40:24are
40:24the
40:24sectors
40:24which
40:25flourish
40:25so
40:26you
40:27know
40:27flexibility
40:28of
40:28labor
40:28doesn't
40:29mean
40:29always
40:29necessarily
40:30exploitation
40:31of
40:31labor
40:31but
40:31of course
40:32it
40:32needs
40:32to be
40:32implemented
40:33correctly
40:33and
40:34we
40:35look
40:35out
40:36for
40:36the
40:36basic
40:36rights
40:37and
40:37all
40:38that
40:39stuff
40:39but
40:39it
40:40is
40:40perhaps
40:40a
40:40wrong
40:40notion
40:41that
40:41very
40:42strong
40:43labor
40:44law
40:44protecting
40:45labor
40:45really
40:45benefits
40:46labor
40:46so
40:47it
40:47is
40:47not
40:47enough
40:48job
40:48again
40:49a
40:49question
40:49of
40:49what
40:50labor
40:50laws
40:50but
40:51let's
40:51go back
40:51to the
40:52fundamentals
40:52we
40:53say
40:53that
40:54the
40:55human
40:55beings
40:55are
40:55the
40:56only
40:56assets
40:57that
40:57any
40:57enterprise
40:58or
40:58nation
40:58has
40:58that
40:59can
40:59learn
40:59and
41:00improve
41:00its
41:00own
41:00capabilities
41:01and
41:02therefore
41:02it's
41:03an
41:03appreciating
41:04asset
41:04but
41:05in a
41:06perhaps
41:06into
41:07national
41:07GDP
41:07accounts
41:08where
41:08do
41:09we
41:09show
41:09labor
41:10human
41:11resources
41:12we
41:12put
41:13them
41:13into
41:13the
41:13profit
41:14and
41:14loss
41:14account
41:14to
41:15be
41:15let
41:15go
41:15when
41:16times
41:16are
41:16hard
41:16to
41:17be
41:17search
41:19around
41:19for
41:19some
41:19talent
41:20when
41:20we
41:20need
41:20some
41:20more
41:21of
41:21it
41:21on
41:22the
41:22asset
41:22side
41:22we
41:22show
41:23building
41:23machinery
41:24capital
41:24okay
41:25those
41:26things
41:26and we
41:26say
41:26depreciate
41:27also
41:27with
41:27time
41:28the
41:28one
41:28asset
41:29that
41:30one
41:30has
41:30which
41:31can
41:31not
41:31only
41:31improve
41:31its
41:32own
41:32capability
41:32but
41:33by
41:33its
41:33intelligence
41:34improve
41:34the
41:34productivity
41:35of
41:36your
41:36machines
41:36and
41:36your
41:36buildings
41:37and
41:37your
41:37materials
41:37is
41:38human
41:39beings
41:39and
41:39that's
41:39a
41:40Japanese
41:40genius
41:40after
41:41the
41:41war
41:41wars
41:41they
41:42were
41:42short
41:42of
41:42capital
41:43and
41:43short
41:44of
41:44new
41:44technology
41:44but
41:45they
41:45had
41:45human
41:45beings
41:46and
41:46they
41:46said
41:47lifetime
41:47employment
41:48and
41:48their
41:48labor
41:49laws
41:49or
41:49not
41:50labor
41:50laws
41:50it
41:51was
41:51the
41:52law
41:52of
41:53the
41:53society
41:54that
41:54a
41:55human
41:55being
41:55at
41:55work
41:56must
41:56be
41:56treated
41:56with
41:57the
41:57most
41:57respect
41:57and
41:58kept
41:58and
41:59as
41:59they
41:59got
41:59older
42:00you
42:00don't
42:00let
42:00them
42:01go
42:01because
42:01they
42:01have
42:01the
42:01experience
42:02the
42:02tacit
42:02knowledge
42:03which
42:03is
42:03really
42:04what
42:04is
42:04required
42:04so
42:05we
42:05go
42:05away
42:06from
42:06this
42:06lifetime
42:07employment
42:07is a
42:08bad
42:08thing
42:08public
42:08sector
42:09does
42:09it
42:09and
42:10so
42:10we
42:10just
42:10change
42:10fundamentally
42:11that
42:12if
42:12I
42:12want
42:12to
42:12nurture
42:12human
42:13beings
42:13I
42:14got
42:14to
42:14give
42:14them
42:14opportunities
42:15to
42:16stay
42:16and
42:17learn
42:17and
42:17make
42:17mistakes
42:26flexibility
42:27on
42:27the
42:27P&L
42:28side
42:28let
42:29go
42:29take
42:29let
42:30go
42:30take
42:30whereas
42:31in
42:31Germany
42:32and
42:32Japan
42:32all
42:33the
42:33labor
42:33laws
42:34are
42:34to
42:35make
42:35sure
42:35that
42:35employers
42:36find
42:36it
42:36difficult
42:37to
42:37let
42:37go
42:37people
42:38you
42:38have
42:39to
42:39invest
42:39in
42:39them
42:40and
42:40build
42:41their
42:42capabilities
42:42and
42:42so
42:43Germany
42:43and
42:44Japan
42:44are
42:45the
42:45manufacturing
42:45powerhouses
42:46in spite
42:47of
42:47very
42:48expensive
42:48currencies
42:49they
42:49were
42:49unfortunately
42:50we
42:51have
42:51completely
42:52run
42:52out of
42:52time
42:53so
42:55that
42:55has
42:56in the
42:56past
42:56thanks
42:57so
42:57much
42:58thank
42:58you
42:58for
42:59being
42:59such
42:59as
42:59as
43:00as
43:00we're
43:00going
43:00in
43:00this
43:00family
43:00I
43:01love
43:01the
43:01time
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