00:00Thanks so much for talking to me. So my name is Stella Oneko and I'm from DW.
00:04Am I speaking to Robert Chagulani?
00:07That's right.
00:08Okay, how are you? What is your situation at the moment?
00:13Well, I am in hiding, following a raid at my house by the military,
00:20commanded by the Chief of Defense Forces, Moozika and Urugaba,
00:24who happens to be Museveni's son, the guy that I ran against last week,
00:30election, and strongly believe we beat him.
00:33But, you know, because this lawlessness, because the ruling family does what they want,
00:39now we got information that they were coming to harm me,
00:43and the father went ahead to confirm it, that they were looking for me to harm me,
00:48and I had no option but to disappear, because I could not get safety from anywhere,
00:53not any institution in Uganda.
00:56And have you heard from your family? How's your family doing?
01:00I've heard from my family. My family are there. Of course, they are not safe.
01:04They are surrounded. My wife and my family are under house arrest.
01:07Nobody is allowed to get out of the house. Nobody is allowed to come in.
01:12They are short of food supplies, but the food supplies that have been delivered to them
01:17have been rejected by the army that is there, and that's the situation.
01:22We heard that in another interview you gave that you are not going to try and legally fight against
01:32these election results. Why is that?
01:35We don't trust the courts in Uganda. The courts in Uganda are all serving the system.
01:40They're all serving the regime. Just today, as we speak, a new chief justice has just been appointed by Museveni.
01:47Today, now he's appointing a new chief justice to adjudicate a case where he is petitioned against.
01:55And, I mean, the courts in Uganda have been part of the ADK for a long time, to the extent that,
02:04I mean, the recent election of 2021, the chief justice demonstrated bias.
02:17But also, even a few times when the courts in Uganda have ordered for reforms, electoral reforms,
02:24the military regime has always tried to reject them.
02:28So, we see no hope, and we have no confidence in the court system.
02:34Our confidence is in the people of Uganda, and we've called upon the people of Uganda to defy the regime,
02:40to practice all manner of protests, including civil disobedience, for as long as it's non-violent and it's legal.
02:49I know you can probably not reveal any of your plans because it might not be safe for you.
02:55Well, but we made it very clear throughout our campaigns that we are handing over responsibility to every Ugandan.
03:05When I was campaigning, I told the people of Uganda not to hold my placard or my portrait,
03:10but to hold the national flag so that each one of us has an equal responsibility in the liberation of this country.
03:18Okay, so it's basically up to the people of Uganda, but right now, I mean, from what we've,
03:25we were also there covering elections, and from what we've seen, there's quite heavy security everywhere.
03:30So, it is also a lot to ask from people of Uganda, right, to go up and go out and hold the flag.
03:38Absolutely, absolutely. It is so much in Uganda to ask a Ugandan to hold the national flag proudly.
03:47I mean, that should be shocking to the free world.
03:52It should be shocking to see that it is dangerous for a citizen of Uganda to hold a national flag.
03:59You've seen the military and police arresting people and beating them up for having a national flag.
04:04Unfortunately, the situation where we are calls for so much. We have to give so much.
04:11And, I mean, your personal situation, you are in hiding. Do you plan to stay in hiding indefinitely?
04:17No, no, no, no. I'm not going to stay in hiding. I'll come out when I decide.
04:22I stayed in hiding because if I stayed at my place, I would not be able to do this interview.
04:29The internet at my house is jammed and the network is cut off.
04:35My wife can only make me maybe up to a few calls a day painstakingly.
04:41So, I'm out of my home in order to be able to speak to the world and to give guidance where I can give guidance.
04:50And also to defy the illegal house arrest.
04:55To show the regime in Uganda that I can beat them at their game and run away from them,
05:00even when they deploy hundreds of military and police officers around my home.
05:06But also to show Museveni's son that I am not under his orders.
05:10He cannot order me to show up in two days and I will.
05:12No, I've not surrendered myself to him and I will not.
05:20No, I'm not surrendered myself to him and I will not.
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