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00:00This show is a spoiler sensation, so if you haven't watched episode 4 of The Traitors yet, go and watch it now, and then come back to join us for more deception, drama, and druids.
00:11Coming up, we'll be discussing the shock reveal of the secret traitor's identity.
00:16The latest player to be banished, Ross, is with us to dissect the surprise roundtable and the secret he's been keeping this whole time.
00:22Plus, we're about to have our first face-to-face murder, which I'm going to unpick in detail with superfans Angela Scanlon and Max Belegde, Series 1 traitor Wilf, and Series 2 faithful term traitor Miles.
00:39We have to start with the biggest revelation of the series so far. Fiona is the secret traitor. Your reactions to that?
00:47Little red riding water.
00:48With a little basket and everything. She's welcome.
00:53It is, of course, Fiona. I mean, I was willing it to be Fiona.
00:58From episode 1, I was like, please let it be Fiona.
01:01Did any of us suspect that it was Fiona? Angela, did you have any suspicions?
01:05I had, like, hopes that it would be Fiona, because she's so unassuming.
01:10I mean, obviously, everyone was like, oh, she's playing a good game, being a bit ditzy and kind of clueless, as if that was a pretense.
01:17But I thought, oh, that's actually quite an obvious kind of line to tread.
01:20But I just love her voice and her insight and how sweet she looks outside.
01:28And then she sits in that chair and she's like, they haven't seen me coming.
01:33She's like rubbing her hands together.
01:35She's a beast and I love it.
01:37I love it.
01:37Yeah. What about you, Max? Did you suspect?
01:39I suspected her when she was in the car and she brought up Rachel's name.
01:43Because up until that point, nobody had really suspected Rachel.
01:46And then out of nowhere, she brings it up.
01:48But she didn't try too hard.
01:49And I thought, you know something, you love.
01:51You know. And she did.
01:53Yeah.
01:53She did.
01:54I thought, to be honest, it was like, it was so obvious it could have been her, but it couldn't have been her.
01:58Yeah.
01:59She's so cute and so innocent looking.
02:00She's the perfect pick for it.
02:01She's perfect.
02:02Oh my God.
02:03But then she went so hard for Hugo, I thought, maybe she's not.
02:06I was watching it going, surely that it's not going to be another Welsh person.
02:11So many Welsh people.
02:13We've had Amanda.
02:15Amanda.
02:15We've had Andrew.
02:16And then we had Charlotte.
02:17We've had a fake Welsh traitor.
02:19And now another real Welsh traitor.
02:21And Hugo was Welsh as well.
02:23So this has done a lot to ruin the reputation for Welsh.
02:26Were there any clues that could have led us to Fiona?
02:29We've got the handwriting.
02:31Did anyone notice similarities with the handwriting, with the murder shortlist and the slates?
02:36That was one thing.
02:37Oh, I didn't even think of that.
02:39Well, I did think the handwriting was so good that a younger person might not have done that.
02:45You know what I mean?
02:46I just think like we use, like younger people use technology a lot.
02:48Speak for yourself.
02:49I've got a beautiful handwriting.
02:50Sorry, I'm sorry.
02:51But I was like, it's an older person.
02:53That was my initial fault.
02:54I definitely thought it was going to be a female.
02:56Yeah.
02:56It's going to be a female.
02:57Because she was going for the lads all the time.
02:59The men were in the chopping block for a long time.
03:01So it's like, yeah, it's going to be a good lady.
03:04So in episode one, on the way to the mission, I don't know if anyone else picked up on this.
03:08James says that no one in the car that he's in does he suspect to be a traitor.
03:12And Fiona's in that car and does a quiet little sort of smile out of the window.
03:17Just glances off.
03:18Oh, I missed that.
03:19Did you catch that?
03:20I did catch that.
03:21But I think Fiona always looks like she's like, sunshine's a lollipop.
03:25So she's just looking around and just having a great old time.
03:28I think she's played it beautifully.
03:29She is.
03:30There was also, and I mentioned this on a previous episode of Uncloked, my biggest clue that Fiona
03:35was the secret traitor, the comment of saying, at home, I've got a red bather that's a thong.
03:40Your husband's not going to recognise you when you get home.
03:43You're just doing all this exercise.
03:44How are you going to be?
03:44I'm like Cindy Crawford.
03:47Be on their watch, ready for their watch.
03:49It will.
03:50Yeah, I will.
03:51I've got a little red bather, which is a thong.
03:54I don't think I need to know that.
03:59That to me is the biggest clue.
04:01Yeah, 100%.
04:02There's no way they're including that in the edit.
04:04It's not a huge clue.
04:06And she threw it in on purpose.
04:07She's like, I'm going to mention red and I'm going to do it.
04:10Give it a little one for me, hubby at home.
04:13Little wink.
04:14Love her.
04:14Husband's thinking, I've never seen that.
04:16That's not fair.
04:19She's all talk.
04:20As a former traitor, how do you rate her gameplay so far?
04:23It's 10 out of 10, isn't it?
04:25It's got to be 10 out of 10.
04:26As long as she tones it down at some point, it's just great.
04:28And it's entertaining.
04:29It's really entertaining to watch somebody who's fully in the role and just enjoying it.
04:33Obviously, I cried all the time.
04:34So it's like watching somebody who's just enjoying it and taking it as a game.
04:38It's nice to watch.
04:39Yes.
04:40And Max, as a super fan, this has obviously been our opportunity to play the game at home.
04:44Have you enjoyed that?
04:46Loved it.
04:46Because I was dissecting everybody's glances.
04:49Everybody, even the tone of their voice when they would say certain things.
04:52I found myself this season more than ever really paying attention.
04:55And it just kind of showed to me how hard it is as a job of being a faithful.
05:00Let's talk about Fiona's relationship with the other traitors now that she's revealed herself.
05:04It's a little icy in here.
05:09Look at you, Boatnight Hugo.
05:11Do you know what?
05:12He messed up big time.
05:14So I had to go gun ho on him.
05:16Okay.
05:16It had to be done.
05:18I basically have done your job for you for the last few nights.
05:25She's already got the villain's laugh.
05:27She's phenomenal, isn't she?
05:29Unbelievable.
05:30So brilliant.
05:31I think that that could be her biggest downfall.
05:33Is like Rachel actually said earlier in the show, no two traitors have ever won it together.
05:39So you've got to have your fellow traitors on side, really, to get to the end.
05:42Because they can throw you under the bus just as easily as you can throw them under the bus.
05:46Well, Miles, you know that more than anyone else.
05:49Take a minute's silence.
05:50What do you make of the heightening tension in the turret?
05:53I think the thing is, I think Rachel is very much, like you said, was the driving seat.
05:58Kind of had Stephen under her thumb.
06:00And then Fiona's come along now with this kind of powerhouse, especially with the attitude.
06:04And so the alliances are kind of shattered because I think Stephen's the kind of one in between the two ladies.
06:09And I think it depends on how it kind of falls.
06:11He just needs to let them fight out, doesn't he?
06:13Yeah, just don't get involved.
06:14But I think you do need your traitors.
06:17Your traitors need each other at certain points.
06:19Yeah.
06:19And as soon as that kind of starts crumbling, as you saw.
06:22Especially this early in the game as well.
06:24It's very early.
06:25It feels like they need to stick together for a little bit.
06:27I mean, obviously, in series three, we saw a fairly united traitors turret.
06:31It feels like things are crumbling pretty quickly.
06:34I think Hugo being chucked so quick has kind of made them all a little edgy, maybe.
06:40I think Hugo was the kind of common enemy, wasn't he?
06:43He was like, he's not going to last.
06:44Easy time.
06:45He's not going to last.
06:46And the faithfuls were annoyed by him and so were the traitors.
06:48So you've got no chance, mate.
06:50Now, speaking of Fiona, as we have been for pretty much the whole episode,
06:54her take on the mission was rather relaxed.
06:58She could not care less.
07:00I love it so much.
07:01She's walking around.
07:02She's literally trolling him.
07:04What would you say then, Angela?
07:05If you was in that box.
07:06I'm about to die.
07:07I'd be like, Fiona, babes, love you, love your pace.
07:10Generally enjoy the way you exist in the world.
07:14But get your arse in here.
07:15You're not sprained in an ankle.
07:16I'm not interested.
07:17The mission as a whole was quite a brutal display of allegiances
07:20because people had to pick the people they were protecting.
07:23Poor Sam.
07:25Poor Sam, completely alone.
07:27No one picked him.
07:28Apart from Rachel electing Amanda over fellow traitor Stephen,
07:32were there any other pairings that you found surprising?
07:35I think they were quite random, to be honest.
07:37From what we've seen, there weren't too many alliances that I could tell.
07:41Are we surprised that Sam was the one who was left out?
07:43No.
07:44No, I was.
07:45No, I wasn't.
07:47I think he gives up that vibe.
07:48I even thought he was a secret traitor for a while
07:52because he gives off that vibe like I'm playing the game by myself.
07:56Well, soon we'll be getting Ross's reaction to the secret traitor twist,
07:59which unbeknownst to the faithful,
08:01has been controlling the castle since the start.
08:04But first, we finish this episode with traitors Rachel and Fiona
08:07having to put their differences aside
08:08and decide who to kill to take suspicion of fellow traitor Stephen.
08:13So their choices are Sam, Rhys and Maz.
08:17Protect Maz at all costs.
08:19What I love about Maz, he's clearly such a sweet man.
08:23Yeah.
08:23And when he finds out he's on this, you know, big shortlist or whatever,
08:27that he's one of the people who could be murdered,
08:29he's like, oh, this is awful to be on the murder shortlist.
08:32And you want to go, brother, you've been on that list every day.
08:36You've been dodging them day in day.
08:37If only you, Fiona has been whacking you on the shortlist every single day.
08:42Why? I don't understand.
08:43That's the nicest problem with Maz.
08:45He's so innocent.
08:46Yeah.
08:47But I liked how when he was in the cage,
08:50he's like, I was in the police force.
08:52This is, whatever happens here is grand.
08:56Clearly everyone is involved in the police force.
08:58Quite a lot.
09:00Maz needs to go.
09:01I'm really sorry.
09:02How dare you?
09:03Rhys already has suspicion on him.
09:05So you'd leave him in
09:06because they're going to banish him at some point anyway.
09:08Yeah.
09:08So you'd get, like, I'd get rid of Maz
09:10because people would be like, what's going on?
09:12Why would they get rid of Maz?
09:13It would just cause a bit more confusion.
09:15Then they'll look at Rhys a little bit.
09:17And Sam's got a lot of suspicion on him as well.
09:19Yeah.
09:19So I think that's really sad to say.
09:21I'm sorry.
09:21I love Maz as well, but see you later.
09:23Do we think murdering Sam takes the spotlight off Stephen at all?
09:26Because Sam led the Judy banishment charge
09:29and he's been a bit quiet ever since.
09:31Sam just acts like a traitor sometimes.
09:33Yeah.
09:34He kind of gives that traitor confidence, maybe.
09:37Too much.
09:38He kind of calms it down and becomes a good faithful.
09:41I don't think he seems like he's got a good alliance
09:43with many other faithfuls.
09:44Still, really handsome guy.
09:46Oh, Alex.
09:48Because everyone thought he looked like you and that's why.
09:51Oh, what? Did they?
09:52Sorry.
09:53I'm not on socials very often.
09:57Let's look at murdering Rhys as an option.
10:00Because it was neck and neck between him and Ross at the round table.
10:03He basically just got absolved of a lot of suspicion on him
10:06because he got so emotional.
10:07No, but the fact that Stephen saw that happen,
10:10as a traitor, I would then go,
10:12guys, this happened in the kitchen.
10:14Murder Rhys.
10:14You know, Harriet saw him crying
10:15and she was a big force in getting rid of Hugo.
10:18She no longer has any suspicion on him.
10:20It's kind of useless.
10:20We may as well get rid of him.
10:21Yeah, that's interesting.
10:22But, yeah, I suppose in that moment,
10:25Stephen is not deciding who to murder, of course.
10:28He's locked in a cage.
10:30I mean, I'm gutted for Stephen
10:31because this feels like a huge mistake.
10:33Did anyone spot the particular slip-up at the round table?
10:37Let's have a little reminder.
10:39There's just one point as well that I wanted to make.
10:43These murders in plain sight, right,
10:45they are designed to give us clues, OK?
10:48Because you're asking the traitors to do something
10:50whilst everyone is running wild around the castle, OK?
10:53Yeah.
10:54So, who was the last person I saw at that painting?
10:58Yeah.
10:58And I've spoken to you before, Maz, through this process.
11:01And so I was thinking to myself last night,
11:04you know, or sorry, this morning,
11:06after we found out how, you know, the thing was done.
11:09Dude.
11:11Dude, he's got to be more careful.
11:12And he was so confident.
11:14He was like, I'm going to smash this, Paul.
11:16One of the tales, though, I noticed on that
11:19is that he finishes every sentence with OK,
11:21which I think is giving himself a breather
11:23to get my next sentence with you.
11:24It's not enough of a breather, though.
11:25No, it is.
11:26OK?
11:27So, last night in the turret.
11:28He had a full night.
11:29We were talking in the turret last night.
11:31OK, so I'm a traitor, Faithful.
11:32Well, Banished Faithful Ross joins us next.
11:36But first, let's see how he reacted
11:38when he found out the identity of the traitors
11:40just after he left the game
11:42at Claudia's surprise morning round table.
11:48It's frustrating having been voted out as...
11:54Honestly, I had a perfect theory.
11:55Come on now.
11:56Like, literally, we know one of those five
11:59had to be a traitor.
12:01And they've set me up.
12:03And ultimately, I could tell on that round table
12:06they just were not listening to the facts
12:09that I was laying down.
12:11Traitors-wise, I think there were four.
12:13And at least one of those five
12:15who heard Ben's dying words is a traitor.
12:20And of those five,
12:21Ellie, I think, is a traitor.
12:24Stephen, I think, is a traitor.
12:26And then Fiona.
12:30It's so hard.
12:31It's so hard.
12:31But I do think Fiona is a silent assassin.
12:35Final one is Harriet.
12:37And it's just because of her behaviour on that last round table.
12:42It didn't make sense that she wasn't listening to what I was saying there.
12:46Is this now...
12:46Is this the point where I can now find out who the traitors are?
12:49Is this the point where I can now find out who the traitors are?
12:51All right.
12:53Oh!
12:57Oh!
12:57Here we go.
12:59Oh, mate.
13:00Okay.
13:00yes Stephen I I did know Stephen was a traitor I this makes me feel so good because I knew it
13:16that's a win for me I'll give you that right oh I'm a bit worried to see who the next one is
13:30Rachel Rachel that has stunned me oh I'm not gonna lie to you Rachel was completely off my radar
13:45I just thought she was just being unnecessarily stubborn ultimately the traitor's plan was to get
13:52me out at the round table and she guaranteed without suspicion I'd always get at least one vote
13:58I am super surprised Ellie's not on this list she was really weirdly quiet at the round table that
14:05that was really weird to me that surprised me uh she has been a faithful and I was wrong
14:12welcome welcome to uncloaked ross thank you so much for having me it's look it's a delight to have you
14:24here under sad circumstances of course you've gone out quite early you know what I'm I'm actually
14:29really happy with my run honestly I feel like blaze of glory you know yeah it was yeah huge blaze of
14:34glory in a way we'll talk about we'll talk about your whole game uh but first I do want to hear why
14:43you thought your own secret girlfriend was a traitor so you lot don't know who I ever have at home
14:49and so she'd be like freezing up I'm really nervous and then I'm like I'm literally under fire here
14:56who's got a chance who's nervous yeah yeah and so I just couldn't empathize with her finding the
15:02experience so intimidating was there beef and onion when you got home no no no no maybe a little bit
15:08yeah it was more I was like you know what I didn't want her to go crazy but I was like a little
15:13a little drag sorry yeah a little left hook yeah like a little defense or leading the charge in an
15:20opposite direction maybe don't get me wrong the plan was you know we work for the household don't
15:25sacrifice yourself don't do nothing yeah but I did see later on in some bits that actually you know
15:34she was she's had my back so you know what I mean well she she must have felt she must have felt quite
15:38sort of torn because she was also watching you have the most stressful game anyone's ever had I
15:43think because it was as soon as you got out the car when normally you can relax and sort of take the
15:47castle in oh don't net netty runs towards you and from that moment on you're under suspicion at the
15:52time um I'd seen netty like early like if I say 20 seconds before yeah and so I was like yes I've got a
16:00secret ally not another one secret ally it's supposed to be 22 strangers it's 20 plus ross and netty
16:07and ellie and ellie yes and ellie
16:11and um netty's gone ross no no and so I've frozen I'm like oh this is not good yeah and she's run and
16:23she's jumped into my arms and the problem with that it's also that I'm like everyone was like oh ross
16:29how was you know it looks really suspicious I'm like I don't care about you lot right now
16:32yeah yeah someone who my partner who has no idea who they are just jumped into my arm
16:37like you guys have got the wrong priority
16:40and he's like oh really yeah yes yes you got some explaining you got some explaining
16:45is there footage anywhere of ellie finding you in the castle and going who the hell is that
16:49and that's that's what my actual initial fear and worry was and so what's annoying
16:55frustrating is I'm trying to hang it up and be like oh my god who is this I can't believe
17:01it's my platonic friend from years ago exactly wasn't a platonic friend and so yes yes yes
17:07okay it's actually generally innocent but it looks terrible
17:12you guessed Stephen and we also saw in that clip you guessed Fiona as well you referred to Fiona as a silent
17:23assassin yes you couldn't have been much closer you know secret traitor silent assassin I just noticed
17:29she'd like I've spent a lot of time with Fiona she's switched on she's really really switched on so
17:35when she'd say stuff every now and again like what did he say what did um what did Ben say I was like
17:41you you're asking a question you knew the answer to yeah and so for me I was like that was a flag
17:48but it wasn't like a yeah and and I mean we're talking a lot about the library five so the people
17:54who heard Ben's final words to look at you if he died and so you suspected Stephen because of that
18:00and Fiona was also there it was two of the library five that's true that's true and so in my eyes
18:06it was those three I knew that this is gonna sound a bit arrogant but I felt like Fiona would not kill
18:15me and so because of it I was like there's no point actually going out with Fiona um I'm obviously not
18:20going to ruin the household yeah and so Stephen was actually the only viable uh person of that five
18:26who was like yeah you can go yeah um and so it just made sense so you were so adamant it was LA like
18:32you you were like oh yeah um I was I couldn't at that time I could not think of any other reason for
18:38her to be so out of character like if you know if you guys I would say if you know Ellie she's actually
18:43a like why why like I'm actually the calm one she seems so quiet that's it and so I was more like
18:51who are you like I was she's only chill when her boyfriend's under the threat of vanishment
18:56that's the only time she takes a back seat after watching the first episode I did now notice that
19:04basically other than us two on the train where she's smiling and a bit like every other scene was like
19:09yeah she's terrified can we can we talk about the moment on the train obviously you're trying
19:17to conceal that you're in a relationship I'd say it's the most obvious thing I've ever seen in my
19:22life that conversation the I'm from London is it is it is it I went is it
19:29I think is it will be your legacy on this show I hope to say no one's ever been that surprised to
19:38hear someone's from London well Ellie's claimed that she's gonna avenge your banishment I hope so
19:45yeah I hope so she she should do she's got I feel like I've laid the clues you know with evidence
19:51so like beautifully articulated and very calm I just yeah but then Rachel went what was the turret
19:58like and you were like oh my god I don't know what anyone would say in that situation I know you
20:04pretending that you didn't know what the turret was we should we should talk about this let's remind
20:08ourselves of that can I ask you a question please was Hugo this dramatic in the turret what's Hugo this
20:15I'm sorry I don't understand was Hugo dramatic in the turret I didn't what turret
20:23oh she's like I rest my case
20:29I mean a brutal move from Rachel I think wild play and then she tries to claim it was a joke
20:36afterwards she's like I jokingly said this yeah your face was a joke joke yeah but then I mean
20:43look I felt bad for you for this whole game Russ because from from minute one you're like no one
20:47else is under suspicion you get out the car Nettie runs up to you and you're the game never slowed
20:51down from that point sadly so I understand there's so much going on at this point you're gonna go
20:56what turret but have you worked out what the turret is yeah I do yeah yeah yeah oh hats off to you he's
21:02had the heart like the hardest start I've ever seen anybody have yeah it's the most brutal Rachel
21:07V Ross since Friends season 6 it's such a leading question though as well isn't it I thought that was
21:15her slipping up so what's really funny was when that was going on I was like brother have you just
21:20outage yourself and also what I didn't want to do at the time as well was say traitors I don't know
21:26why in my head I just thought if you say traitors people will associate you with um and I was like
21:31bruv that and I still thought it was a weird thing to say but I understand now the game was a powerful
21:36thing to do Max how would you cope in that situation if you're at the round table I think I would cry
21:40and run away I don't think that would raise any suspicion whatsoever yeah Ross why did you and Ellie
21:47decide to go into the game together oh so actually Ellie was the one that applied for us and uh we
21:53loved the show yeah so we'd watched um two season two and three and then when she said we should try
22:00for it um I was like you sure um because obviously so many people it's it's such a popular show so many
22:07people on it and so yeah not really like has it brought you closer together yes yes or has it exposed
22:15some serious flaws in your relationship love island i have um yeah to be fair to you i've seen
22:22a lot more i've seen a lot more really actually if that if that makes sense because i think especially
22:27in a relationship i don't know if you're competitive but she'd keep her guard up quite a bit so now
22:32understanding oh that's what that face means it's been really really helpful because like um no it's
22:39been good i think it's mad seeing your own reactions on tv it is oh that's what my face looks
22:43like were there were there any moments when you're in the castle that you nearly slipped up that you
22:49nearly sort of revealed a little bit of the secret relationship to the other players no i was actually
22:55really playing with it what weirdly our relationship was the most fun and comfortable thing for me
23:00personally because i just i don't know why arrogantly i knew nobody would guess yeah um and especially
23:07obviously after the netty scenario i was like bruv we could do whatever yeah there was no there was
23:10no point at like the end of the day at the end of the day you didn't like accidentally kiss her on
23:18the lips and then have to kiss everyone on the lips that's why he got banished it's not an excuse
23:26anymore yeah we're gonna have to get rid of ross he keeps snocking it's obviously out there now
23:34uh that you and ellie are in a relationship but when the first three episodes were going out we have
23:39you been trying to not be seen together or trying to see you so yes we've had to leave the house at
23:46separate times uh where we went to go watch the first episode that my family's together um ellie took
23:52a big jacket sunglasses like it's going over the top and i and i get it to be fair because we live where
23:58we live and so we don't want people to just to ruin fun oh yeah yeah and so yeah we've been doing
24:03every bit extra which has been a bit long but it's fun and so also and telling friends bruv
24:09yeah yeah because i was gonna say the neighbors next door like hey yeah
24:13they're neighbors they're my neighbors non-stop um and then everyone else has been like
24:18keep it yourselves and also because it's fun that you get to get to show in the secret
24:22you're in the inner circle yeah yeah yeah um who do you think's gonna survive tonight's face-to-face
24:28murder ross we've obviously got steven we've got steven steven will survive yeah
24:32really all right um we should survive because obviously if i was a traitor i'm keeping him
24:39the hell in yeah um i'd probably kill maz that's what i said i said that but we love maz i love maz i'm
24:46sorry maz but explain yourself i love sam but sam has rubbed some people not the not the right
24:52way yeah so the wrong way ross is so nice he won't even say the word wrong
24:56the incorrect way yeah you've rubbed me not the right way
25:02a little feedback for you there yeah yeah the turret yeah ross although your time was cut
25:15savagely short you've entered the traitor's history books because you are the second ross
25:20to be in a secret relationship the other one with his mum yeah yeah yeah of course sad season
25:27you follow in the footsteps of secret son ross to diane who is of course miles's murder conquest
25:34uh congratulations uh we'd like to commemorate that here on uncloaked a little portrait for you
25:40so you can have the other ross at home all the rosses thank you you can take that home with you
25:48and we've sent we've sent him one of you as well so well we're out of time for part one but we'll
25:55keep chatting over on bbc sounds i'm going to ask ross more about his secret in the castle and if
26:00fiona's arrival in the turret will make or break the traitors plus there'll be more from angela max
26:05wilf and miles it's all in your bonus episode of uncloaked which you can hear right now just scan
26:10the qr code on the screen and listen to us as you get ready for bed i'm back on thursday night
26:14straight after episode 5 with celebrity faithful mark bonner and series 3 faithful fosier to see
26:20who hasn't made it through the night and if that murder has successfully thrown the scent off of
26:24traitor stephen big thanks to angela max wilf miles and ross and to you for watching i'm ed gamble stay
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