NSW Premier warns of increased police presence heading into NYE

ABC NEWS (Australia)

The New South Wales government has not ruled out the deployment of troops to patrol Jewish neighbourhoods in Sydney following the Bondi terror attack. Premier Chris Minns has announced a heavier police presence across the city over the coming weeks, including more officers equipped with long-armed guns. Criminologist Terry Goldsworthy says police carrying long arm guns is only appropriate in certain circumstances.

Transcript

00:00We've only got general details at the moment.

00:04I mean, we understand that the police will be deployed with long arms.

00:08Assume it's the Colt M4 semi-automatic weapon they're talking about there.

00:13But we don't know the details in terms of where they're going to be deployed,

00:16how many are going to be deployed, what is their role.

00:20So those kind of details would be interesting to see.

00:23We saw Victoria make an announcement last week about the MCG,

00:27where they were, I guess, a bit more specific on the details

00:31in terms of how the police would be rolled out with those long arms.

00:34So I would be interested to see that because what we're seeing here is

00:37New Year's Eve is a much bigger event, major event,

00:41than a single sporting stadium.

00:44So I think there's greater challenges here for the New South Wales Police

00:46in terms of how they deploy those officers with that extra capability

00:50to respond to an armed event.

00:53Yeah, these long arm rifles, what is the reasoning behind arming police with them?

00:57And what do you think of that decision?

01:00Look, police have had these weapons for many years now.

01:03Like in 2017, the New South Wales Police began to roll out of the M4 carbine.

01:08In Queensland, for instance, we've always had access to rifles

01:10since the mid-1980s when I joined the QPS.

01:14But what we're seeing is that the weapons were usually stored at a station

01:17or secured in an armoured container in the back of a vehicle.

01:21You're now going to see these weapons on public display.

01:24And I think that people need to realise is that this isn't going to be

01:28what general duties policing is.

01:30This is for, I think, targeted events, specialist police coming out

01:35for major events, et cetera, to ensure there's a sense of security there

01:39and to provide deterrence also.

01:42So, you know, police with long arms are not suitable to general duties policing.

01:46You know, you don't want to be rolling around with people who are drunk

01:49or public nuisance trying to arrest them on the ground

01:51with, you know, an M4 hanging off your shoulder.

01:54It's just not conducive to effective policing.

01:57So I think they'll be limited in terms of how we see them.

02:00I don't have a problem with it.

02:01I think the threat environment that we have at the moment

02:04after Bondi has changed and the public expect to see some kind of response there.

02:11How long this will go on for, I'm not sure.

02:13Will it become a permanent fixture?

02:14It may well.

02:15That depends on what happens.

02:17But we did see in Bondi, the police were outgunned.

02:21They had pistols.

02:21The offenders had long arms.

02:23So I think this is a step in the right direction to ensure

02:25that doesn't occur again and gives the police an extra layer of capability

02:31in terms of any evolving situation involving an active armed offender.

02:35Yeah, the Premier says this is a way of providing reassurance to the community.

02:40But presumably seeing these kinds of weapons will be unsettling for some people

02:45because I guess Australians generally are just not used to seeing

02:48these kinds of weapons on our streets and police with them.

02:51How do we find the right balance when it comes to that reassurance

02:54versus, you know, causing unintentional discomfort?

02:58Yeah, look, I mean, we've seen a militarisation of police in the US

03:02where clearly the response is not suitable to policing.

03:05Like, there were some riots in Ferguson over there some years ago

03:08and the police had a .50 calibre machine gun mounted

03:10on top of an armed personnel carrier.

03:13Now, that is totally ludicrous.

03:14I mean, you're just not going to use that kind of weaponry on the public.

03:17What we are seeing here is where the police think there is a cogent threat

03:20in terms of the environment,

03:22they are providing, I guess you could say, more protection for the community.

03:27So, you know, if we look at crime, you know, crime occurs,

03:30one of the theories about crime occurring is you have suitable victim or victims,

03:33a motivated offender and a lack of guardianship.

03:36If those things are there, then it's likely the crime may occur.

03:39So what we're seeing here is that the police,

03:41the New South Wales government are saying,

03:43we're going to give more appropriate guardianship

03:46by making sure that people are aware that we have this extra capability.

03:49So you will see the weapons in public at major events.

03:53I don't think they'll become everyday events.

03:55So I would think that won't be the case.

03:57But there will also be a capability of police with long arms that you won't see.

04:01So, you know, the police you'll see will be the public order and riot squad.

04:05The police you won't see will be the tactical operations unit

04:08who are armed with this weapon and other weapons

04:10to respond to high-level threats.

04:11Yeah, I mean, that was what I wanted to ask you about last of all.

04:16I mean, just the future of this kind of policing.

04:19You mentioned last week's Boxing Day test where we saw a similar security ramp up.

04:23Do you think we're likely to see more of this as time goes on at those major events,

04:27more security, more heavily armed?

04:30Well, I think we're seeing a change in the policing environment.

04:33And that kind of started with the William Beeler shootings in Queensland

04:36where we had four officers attacked, two killed and a civilian killed

04:39by people who were armed with long arms.

04:43There has been a change in the environment.

04:45So I think, you know, the police will now look to have extra capability

04:49to respond to those events as they unfold.

04:52I mean, it's difficult to respond to or plan for, I should say, lone wolf attacks.

04:58They are deliberately very difficult for police to counter.

05:02So it's hard for the police.

05:03They generally have to kind of go, OK, well, we don't know what the exact threat is,

05:07but we have to plan to try and stop that threat.

05:10You know, as we saw in Bondi, the police were, you know, outgunned,

05:14but still advanced and, you know, were engaging those offenders

05:17and, in my opinion, terminated the event very quickly,

05:21given the resources they had and hair outgunned they were.

05:24So I think we'll see them at major events.

05:26Yes, for the time being, that will be the case.

05:29Will you see them in just police walking down the road

05:31where there's no necessary major event, things like that?

05:34I would think we're not there yet.

05:37All right.

05:38Not there yet.

05:38I will leave it there, Dr. Terry Goldsworthy,

05:40Associate Professor of Criminal Justice at Bond University.

05:43Really appreciate your thoughts.

05:44Thanks so much for joining us.

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