- 6 weeks ago
What does it really take to write a Christmas song that lasts forever? Singer, songwriter and producer Charlie Puth sits down with Kristin Robinson on Billboard On The Record to unpack the magic behind holiday hits, from the one chord that seems to appear in nearly every classic to the ’60s influences that continue to shape today’s festive favorites. Puth shares how he once wrote a Christmas song in just an hour, why some tracks become seasonal standards almost by accident and how artists balance tradition with originality when creating holiday music. He also takes listeners inside piano sessions, highlights his favorite Christmas albums and songs, answers rapid-fire holiday questions and reflects on how the craft of songwriting has evolved, all while offering a sneak peek at what’s next for his own music.
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MusicTranscript
00:00Why does Christmas music sound so Christmassy?
00:04How can we recognize within the first few seconds that a certain recording is going to be a holiday song?
00:10Is it the sleigh bells? The waltz time signatures? The jolly pop melodies?
00:16Well, thankfully, I have a very special guest today who can help solve that mystery for us.
00:20Charlie Puth is here as part of our special two-part Christmas series this week to break down the sound behind Christmas hits.
00:30Welcome back to On the Record, a music business podcast from Billboard and Sick Bird Productions.
00:36I'm your host, Kristen Robinson, and today we are joined by Professor Puth himself to understand the sound of Christmas music and also what are some of his favorite holiday hits.
00:46This seasonal genre may only hit the top of the Hot 100 for about a month out of the year, but pinning a Christmas classic is a seriously big business.
00:54In the U.S. alone, Billboard estimates that Christmas recordings earn about $177 million annually.
01:02Plus, there's great sentimental value in minting an evergreen holiday hit.
01:06This time every year, think about how many families around the world are inviting the sounds of Mariah Carey, Michael Buble, Brenda Lee, Nat King Cole, and others into their homes.
01:16These are memories that last a lifetime and create an eternal bond between the fan and the artist.
01:21But before we bring Charlie in to break this down for us, I just want to warn our regular viewers of On the Record that we are going to be taking a slight break during the holidays,
01:28but we'll be back in mid-January to give you even more great interviews and insights into the music business.
01:34As a bonus, for our last Christmas music-themed week of the year, there's actually going to be a second episode this week all about the behind-the-scenes business of Christmas music
01:44with Warner Chappell's CEO, Guy Moot, and COO, Carrie Ann Marshall.
01:48So if you love what you're here today, definitely check that one out, too.
01:52Okay, enough housekeeping.
01:53Let's bring in Charlie Puth.
01:55Please welcome him to On the Record.
01:57Charlie Puth, thank you so much for coming to On the Record.
02:00Thank you for having me, and thank you for plopping a little piano here.
02:03I know.
02:03I figured we can't have you on without having one.
02:05You're not going to get a good interview without a piano.
02:08It helps me get the words out a little bit.
02:11I instantly become calmer.
02:13Okay, well, great.
02:15Okay, so today we're having a special episode.
02:17It's our Christmas episode, and I've gathered you here today to help us answer a very important question,
02:23which is, why does Christmas music sound so Christmassy?
02:27Yeah.
02:27But before we get started, I do kind of want to hear your earliest memories with Christmas music.
02:32Think back to your childhood.
02:34What are those early moments that you had with Christmas music?
02:36Right.
02:36Well, growing up in a Roman Catholic church, I heard Christmas music that played very stiffly.
02:42Oh, come let us adore him, Christmassy.
02:49I would listen to the organist and be like, instead of playing, what if you did, like, juiced up, like, put a little jazz.
02:56And then at the dawn of YouTube, I would look up Christmas music played in church, but in, like, Memphis, Tennessee.
03:11And then I would hear.
03:12Yeah, that's the gospel.
03:13All the gospel-ness.
03:15I'm like, oh, okay, that's the ticket.
03:16That's what it takes to make a Christmas song sound the most Christmassy and not stiff.
03:23Not that the music in the Roman Catholic church is bad, but it's just less loose than I'd like to hear.
03:29And there's a, it's not a Christmas song, but there's, I remember hearing a song called, Jesus, you're the center of my joy.
03:39It goes, Jesus, you're the center of my joy.
03:45All that's good and perfect comes from you.
03:50I haven't thought of the song in, like, a decade.
03:52Do you know the song?
03:53Yeah.
03:53Yeah.
03:54I grew up in church.
03:55I was, like, Episcopalian, but that's, like, basically Catholic, but watered down a little bit.
03:59Yeah, absolutely.
04:00So, same, same stuff.
04:02You're the heart of my contaminant, I'll fall all I do.
04:07Ah, oh my God.
04:09It's like, but, like, that doesn't exist in the, in a lot of churches.
04:12And then I would hear R&B Christmas music, like, sung by, like, Luther, produced by Quincy Jones, and I would hear all those chord changes.
04:19So, that's my earliest remembrance of hearing Christmas music.
04:25Yeah, and you've released a Christmas song yourself.
04:27You released one last year.
04:28I did, yeah.
04:29December 25th.
04:30Yeah.
04:30How did you approach writing that differently from just a typical song of yours?
04:35Like, what were some of the chords that you were trying to play into to make it sound Christmassy or the lyrics?
04:40Right.
04:41That kind of thing.
04:42Well, other than making sure that there was a jingle bell in the percussion, or as the perks, as the producers call it,
04:47the, I, I, I, you have the one, and it's like the Hungry Heart Bruce Springsteen chord progression.
04:59For whatever reason, and I'm not really good with, like, the names of, like, all of the chords.
05:04I'm not like Jacob Collier, where I can, like, call out the names of, like, one, three, five.
05:07I just know what feels.
05:08Yeah.
05:09It feels like Christmas to me.
05:14So I was like, I'm going to put that in a Christmas song.
05:17And also, Chin Rub, why haven't I put out a Christmas song?
05:20Yeah.
05:20I mean, kind of shocking that you didn't until just now.
05:23Yeah.
05:23It was kind of like a, I had just, like, met the new record label at Atlantic.
05:29And I'm like, they were like, is there anything you want to do?
05:31And I'm like, I just want to, like, I know Christmas is next week, but I just want to put out a Christmas song.
05:36Wait, that's how fast it came together?
05:37Yeah, I wrote it in, like, an hour.
05:40Oh, I'm shocked by that.
05:41I feel like usually when I hear people talk about the Christmas music they've made, they write it in July.
05:45And then they, like, do a whole marketing campaign.
05:47But that's why I didn't get, that's why I didn't put a lot of marketing behind it, because I was working on my album.
05:52And it's just something I needed to do for myself.
05:56So I literally wrote it over the phone, over a meeting with Elliot, and, like, the next day sent it to him.
06:03Wait, like Elliot Grange?
06:04Yeah.
06:04Oh.
06:05Because he was the one who was like, have you ever made a Christmas song before?
06:08It's a terrible Elliot Grange impression.
06:10But he told me to do it as well.
06:14Wow.
06:15Okay.
06:15Yeah.
06:15And I feel like that song, to me, had, like, very, like, kind of an 80s pop nostalgic feel to it.
06:22It reminded me of, yeah, like, almost like a Last Christmas, but modern.
06:25Yeah.
06:26Was that something that was in your head when you were writing it, of trying to kind of have that sound in mind?
06:30Kind of.
06:31Yeah.
06:32The drums definitely are a little elbow rub to that, I would say, with the Lynn snare drum.
06:38But I also wasn't really even thinking about the production.
06:41I kind of just wanted to.
06:42Originally, the song was going to be called December 26th, and I was going to make it, like, like, ooh.
06:50But it was, like, too complicated to, like, lyrically to, like, the next day after Christmas, after you leave, is when I feel the worst.
06:58I guess that could have worked, but it kind of was, like, a lot of here to here to understand this.
07:02You have to go here to, like, call it December 25th.
07:05Why?
07:05Because it's Christmas.
07:07It worked.
07:08Yeah.
07:08It works.
07:09Well, whenever I think of Christmas music, I always think of, like, the idea of trying to, like, bottle a nostalgic feeling.
07:15Yeah.
07:16A homey feeling.
07:17Yeah.
07:18And I feel like you did that with that song, with that kind of 80s-style production quality to it.
07:24But it's interesting because that has not always been a nostalgic sound.
07:27I think that might have only recently become more of a nostalgic sound.
07:31When you hear Christmas music, what kind of eras do you hear people mostly drawing their inspiration from when they're writing a modern Christmas hit?
07:37What's so funny is that it's the only genre of music where people reach for the really old stuff, the 60s.
07:50I feel like people really reach for the – if you hear Underneath the Tree by Kelly Clarkson.
07:55Na-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da
08:25it's almost like a crocodile rock kind of like it has like a rock and roll like yeah
08:30it has that like it's not really uh it i guess last christmas by wham kind of stands on its own
08:40because it's just really a true 80s christmas song i guess band-aids uh do they know it's
08:46christmas as well and maybe when did um simply we should fact check that that's that's probably
08:57like i feel like that's like late 80s or something yeah i do feel like there's kind of like from each
09:04decade there's one mega hit in christmas music yeah 80s would probably be last christmas 90s
09:09would be all i want for christmas is you actually don't know what 2000s would be but 2000s i think
09:16britney tried to on now that's what i call christmas they had uh at the very end i always
09:21love those now cds that's how i learned a lot of music i i apparently needed to it i heard britney
09:27spears is uh santa about that one in a minute that is uh not a direct rip but like they obviously had
09:40some inspirational mariah's you know has this reoccurring christmas hit every year we want
09:45some of that for for britney but i think a a sub-genre of christmas music that is severely
09:54underappreciated is the rmb-ness of uh of christmas music on the grinch soundtrack in 2000
10:03i remember listening to that soundtrack and hearing justin timberlake and in sync
10:08i said the wind is blowing cold and they did the
10:12and there's no
10:16this christmas baby you don't have to be alone and then
10:25it's like when the movie would end and the credits are rolling and everybody's perfect credit
10:31it's the perfect everybody's walking out of the theater it kind of smells like popcorn
10:35yeah and there's a couple of people who haven't left the theater i was one of them
10:40should we go to tgi fridays or something
10:43it's like american cinema like all in the early 2000s wrapped up in one but like even like boys
10:51two men like the let it snow i why that's an amazing song and it's a hit in the rmb space but
10:58why isn't it a worldwide yeah why is it not in that top 10 hot 100 slot right now i mean at the
11:06time of this recording i think half of the hot 100 hot 100 top 10 is christmas music and it's
11:12interesting because i think it's so fascinating how many people release new christmas songs every year
11:18given it's so hard to meant one of those hits that like lasts forever in christmas
11:22and also christmas music's only at the top of the charts for like three weeks yeah and then it goes
11:27away but like instantly the next day yeah boxing day on december 26th on december 26th people throw
11:34away their christmas music and move on isn't that sad though i know when did this happen because
11:39when i was in college in 2010 like christmas music wasn't like dominating the charts yeah so actually
11:45it's a phenomenon of the streaming era because with streaming you can look back on any song ever
11:50for free so you're not buying full you know like my family always had like the nat king cole christmas
11:56album and that was our go-to yeah and that's the only thing that we listen to yeah but now we can just
12:01say hey alexa play holiday hits right pop hits or something sounds like my wife yeah there you go
12:07like alexa play music and i'm like what do you mean play music what kind of music you're like i don't
12:14know yeah no but that's like apparently holiday music over indexes on amazon music wow which is
12:20interesting to me because people are just like hey i'm about to have a dinner party people are coming
12:23over play r&b christmas music even like on sirius they have the holly channel and it's like yeah it's
12:29it's artists that uh i i didn't even know recorded a christmas song like natasha benningfield you know
12:36she has a slew of christmas music didn't know it's even i didn't know sabrina carpenter um
12:42the santa doesn't know you like i do that's the last christmas song uh last christmas rather uh
12:50chord progression doesn't know you like i do i don't think i know this one it's called santa
12:57doesn't know you like i do sung by sabrina carpenter wow and it's a really good song and it
13:02kind of like has like a 90s flow to it interesting really really really good but like everything
13:08innately has a little bit of r&b-ness in christmas music except the christmas music that's like you
13:14know run run rudolf i would always play in my old tesla when i i couldn't every time i turned it on
13:23like the the the car would play that song like my my blinker was jingle bells i'm like what is this car
13:31got rid of it so was that like a cd that you always had in the player was that the first song
13:36on itunes which one the uh the sabrina carpenter song no not the sabrina song the um what is it run
13:43run rudolph no it was just christmas mode my friend okay like messed with me and put it in permanent
13:50christmas mode that's a pretty good joke though i have to say yeah i got rid of the car i couldn't
13:55stand it anymore um but that now that's what i call christmas started out with chestnuts roasting on
14:01an open fire what edition though there's so many people who did that song i like the justin bieber
14:06usher uh version and g major just nuts roasting on an open fire
14:13that justin bieber christmas album is one of my favorite christmas albums oh mistletoe's a banger
14:19i've told him that and i didn't know i i think he thought i was joking but when i i i i was like no
14:26that's one of my favorite christmas album fa la la with boys two men i swear i'm being completely
14:32dead ass right now i think it's one of the best christmas songs uh that uh that's bartender by t
14:36payton we're devolving into bartender the uh the uh uh this is the time of year we can give it
14:45give it give it give it all that oh like 2011 i was in college listening to that and be like this
14:52this kid's got it man it does bang yeah so obviously justin bieber's christmas album is
14:57one that you really like all-time fave all-time fave okay well is there a quintessential just
15:01singular christmas song that you think hits all the marks of what a christmas song should be
15:05i i think the uh brian mcknight boys two men the let it snow the outro i was talking to my friend
15:13pop about this the other day the outro my manager's from philly so now of course i'm talking about
15:21boys two men right when she comes in let it snow let it snow i mean other than like the twinkly
15:31sound like if i took the twinkly sound away just put a little that because christmas music is
15:41inherently jazz when it's a ballad and when it's a rock and roll song it's a piano kind of thing too
15:48like and but usually it's let it snow let it snow let it snow that song sounds like falling in love
16:01at christmas or like going to a a christmas party with like someone that you're kind of like seeing
16:10in the house is like kind of small and you all sneak off into like you know like a small room or
16:14something like that and there's a the tv doesn't look like that tv if not a flat screen it's like a
16:19it's like a small tv and there's a game cube that's what that song sounds like to me oh yeah
16:26this is such a fun interview i love this let's keep going on this idea so when you're thinking
16:32about christmas music what are some of the key points that a christmas song really needs to be
16:37instantly recognizable i mean obviously the jingle bells sleigh bells don't hurt sleigh bells in the
16:43production's always nice i think tlc at the end of home alone 2 lost in new york tlc had a uh
16:50uh uh i think ain't too proud to beg had just come out it was 1992 dallas austin had put jingle
16:58bells in the t-boss was singing just hear those sleigh bells ringing it was like a 90s thing and like
17:07they had the sleigh bells and instantly made it a christmas thing there was no baby face like
17:11and none of that in there but that was okay because that was that kind of song i think the
17:17the defining the thing that i hear most in christmas music is this chord whatever this
17:24chord's called if anybody well i'm not gonna be able to answer it if you can't but there's like if i
17:31did okay it sounds nice resolves always really cleanly that sounds like a christmas it's like
17:40whatever this shit is i i don't know it's like a i don't know i literally don't know what it's called
17:49yeah most christmas music actually that's that's what the mariah thing is
17:55that's very that's a christmas chord
18:08you know christmas melodies have a lot of chromaticism in them
18:15all i want for christmas it sounds like a christmas song so now i've had coffee so now
18:21i'm really gonna now we're like on a roll yeah okay so knowing so many songwriters and producers
18:27as you do like do you hear people trying every year to like write christmas pitch songs or to
18:33write with artists for christmas albums is that something that people are chasing because those
18:37hits if you get it come back every single year right come with a good paycheck i sure but i think
18:44i haven't actually heard christmas music aside i haven't heard songwriters get together and
18:50try and write one singular song and like spread it out to a bunch of artists like in a very 2014
18:56kind of way in a long time i feel like the swag nowadays is to like get with an artist and like
19:02amy allen's done with sabrina and just make their album and like focus on like the body of work i feel
19:08like everybody's focusing on a body of work now yeah i haven't if it's happened i'm sure it's happening
19:14i just i mean it's it's kind of a futile thing to do or at least in talking to publishers and
19:20songwriters for various stories over the years it seems like the pitch game is just so far down
19:24that for just getting some songwriters in a room with no artist and no plan and just being like this
19:29could be for selena like it just doesn't i don't think it works like that anymore yeah when you were
19:34coming up was that still something that was popular that's i've had songs that when i wrote see you
19:39again we had 10 10 that was a pitch song we had 10 different artists cut it and then i ended up
19:44becoming an artist and and singing it which i'm very grateful for i was going in the room with
19:50like 10 other people and being like okay so and so is looking for something this is what their last
19:55album sounded like we had to retain that but push it in this direction was very calculated now it's
20:01like the record labels don't even know what a hit is anymore so yeah it's just about making
20:06something that feels good so how do you feel about like the way that the game has changed do you think
20:10that it's positive for music that most of its biggest stars are in the studio crafting their
20:16entire albums with a core set of people um or do you think that there's more harm than good and moving
20:22away from the pitch game because i imagine it makes it harder for songwriters to break through
20:26yeah i feel like there's an ebb and flow to everything i think it's um i remember touring in asia
20:33in 2016 and there were still a tower records in japan and tokyo and people were lined up because
20:40uh japanese artists had just dropped a brand new album and people were lined up around the block
20:46and even then that really didn't exist in america anymore tower records was closed on sunset
20:52boulevard i don't think people were caring about albums as much then versus like it was just singular
20:58songs singular songs still you know itunes charts and and that but uh uh i i feel like people are
21:07buying vinyls and caring about you know what the artist has put into the craft and like cds are
21:13starting to smell good again you know what i mean okay what do you mean by that like a literal smell
21:19yeah like a literal smell because record labels would invest a lot of money into uh making the graphics
21:26and the cd and the the jewel case look all flowy and good and i remember buying celebrity by in sync
21:32their second album odd off jive and like just smelling the the the this is gonna be so weird but
21:41like you know it's that that like plastic wrap around it yeah and it's it fell it was twenty dollars
21:46in 2002 yeah and this is a lot it's a lot it's still a lot today it's just it's there was a lot of care
21:54that went into these uh albums and lps and i feel like people are just starting to care about albums
21:59again they're buying record players i can't remember the question now i think that's what we were talking
22:04about i don't know where we started with it but i i like where we went with it yeah but oh oh oh the
22:10question was basically just like is it is it a positive change that we've made in the industry that
22:15now artists are writing with songwriters directly i think any chance people get to make music and
22:23have a song do well because a bunch of their friends got together and they were celebrating and
22:30having a great time doing it if it happens to perform well that's a win and worth celebrating
22:37i think if it does okay it's a win as well if it comes out it's it's a win that's so true i've written
22:44songs and some of them haven't done so well but it was just like i i needed to get it out and that was
22:50a win for me any chance we get to release music is a celebration this episode is brought to you by
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23:34to get started and going back to christmas music um we were kind of talking about like what things
23:39really define the sound of a christmas song um and i'm wondering also like with the structure of songs
23:45like do you still see like kind of a verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus kind of format or are there
23:50kind of different formats that you see prevalent in in christmas music i don't hear a lot of
23:56like middle sections a la you will there's that chord again
24:07and we're going back to the beginning i don't hear that section as much in modern christmas music
24:16um i hear a lot of high fidelity like fake strings and which is okay yeah yeah what do you think is a
24:26christmas standard that's been covered a little too many times one that i just don't care for is the
24:32baby it's cold outside i know that's i know that's like hope the whole you know thing about that too i just
24:37i genuinely just like don't really love that song yeah like i don't i actually don't even really
24:42listen to lyrics when i first listen to a song i'd i always pay attention to the melody and i'm just
24:48like oh my god get on with it the songwriter's watching this i'm sorry whoever you are i think
24:54that song's been around long enough that that songwriter's not watching i mean it's a fine song
24:59but i'm not like putting on baby it's cold outside i think we can retire that one i think that's okay
25:05i just i'm just gonna kind of i'm just gonna just leave it off the playlist i it's not one that i'm
25:10reaching for i'm putting tlc sleigh bells on i'm putting even a bing crosby record on and especially
25:15let it snow the boys do men record it's my favorite song yeah yeah i mean i i also really like those
25:23christmas songs that are almost not christmas songs whenever i think of this like oh yeah um almost
25:28like a river by joni mitchell yeah it's coming on christmas cutting down trees putting up reindeers
25:36singing songs of joy and peace i wish i had a river in 2006 james taylor put out a christmas album he
25:43did a cover of that song that was the first time i heard river i thought he wrote it and then i checked
25:47the credits because i was smelling the cd and i saw that joni mitchell wrote it yeah i mean yeah that's
25:53one of my favorites like another weird one to me is like i think there are some songs that
25:57accidentally become christmas songs like a hallelujah by leonard cohen and like yeah he's
26:03not even celebrating christmas but it's just and it's not a christmas song but he's not he's not
26:07celebrating christmas in that song that's the equivalent of like die hard being a christmas movie
26:11but it's not a christmas movie it just happens to take place at a time where christmas was being
26:18celebrated like yeah it's but you know what it's a really sad have you ever heard um same old lang
26:23zine by dan vogelberg i don't think so it's so sad it's met my old lover at the grocery store
26:32the snow is falling christmas eve like i've heard this song in july on you know 101.1 wcbs fm
26:42uh the snow was falling christmas eve uh i stole behind her and i touched her on her sleeve it's
26:50about rekingling a romance with a former lover and then she just goes off into the distance and
26:54and and same familiar feeling that i felt at school and felt that old familiar pain
27:01and as i turned to make my way back home the snow turned into rain and everybody always goes rain
27:10and it's just like oh it gives me goosebumps i didn't even do a good job just now but that is
27:14how is that a christmas song it's the most depressing song ever but it's beautiful it's
27:19just the time of year that i guess they're referencing in the lyrics that makes it fall
27:24into the christmas category you know what i don't like what is my favorite thing i like the song my
27:31favorite things yes like rain drops on roses and like that's not a christmas song okay i don't like
27:37that as a christmas song i listened to uh on john coltrane had played on naima
27:42brown paper paper package is tied up with string i get it presents but this is not a christmas song
27:52yeah yeah yeah i can't explain it music this is totally different it's the it's the hills are alive
27:57with the sound of music it's austria like i don't i'm not i'm not it's not giving christmas
28:02yeah it's austria world war ii it's yes yeah it's not giving a nice architecture in the beginning
28:08of the movie seeing all the uh the buildings pass by god what's in this coffee you have literally had
28:14one sip for those who can't see right now and is just listening to it as a podcast he has had one
28:18sip yes i've had three sips now yeah but i don't know it is interesting how things fall into the
28:24christmas canon without even trying and i wish that i had done my research on my favorite things but
28:30i'm sure there's someone who knows and will comment on this as a youtube video and yeah i'm sure it was
28:36in something important and everyone on x is gonna get mad that we didn't mention it and we suddenly
28:41hate christmas therefore we hate people yep that's the that's the takeaway from this interview we hate
28:46christmas we hate christmas that's why we're dedicating our afternoon to it right yeah yeah but
28:52yeah i mean it it is an interesting phenomenon how things become part of the christmas canon even if
28:58they're not have you ever heard the christmas shoes i'm sorry to cut you off no i don't know
29:02the christmas shoes so it's like do you know the christmas christmas shoes you don't know the
29:09christmas shoes no one in this room knows it's about a little boy who can't afford christmas shoes for
29:14his dying mother she's at the hospital and there's a shoe store right across the street from the hospital
29:21and a man is right behind in line and the little boy gives the change to the salesperson and the
29:28salesperson's like i'm sorry this is not enough and oh my god it's so sad ready it goes um um the
29:38and he said sir i wanna buy these shoes for my mama please it's christmas eve and i and these shoes are
29:49just her size and it goes could you hurry sir daddy says there's not much time
29:56she's been sick for quite a while and no these shoes will make her smile and want her to look
30:04beautiful if mama meets jesus tonight so sad do you fucking hear that shit mama meets jesus tonight
30:16like wait mommy needs jesus if mommy meets jesus tonight if she dies she's gonna wear her favorite
30:23shoes to heaven i didn't even play it well but that like ty's crying right now that is the saddest
30:32not not a dry eye and then if they're just to rub it in the last chorus is just a children's choir
30:38in b major sir i wanna buy these shoes for my mama please i want her to look beautiful if mama meets jesus
30:50tonight like oh my god who's like it makes my sister cry and my sister is like a like a
30:59she does not show emotion except then wow yeah that kind of reminds me there's this willie nelson
31:05christmas song i think it's called pretty paper but it's about like a homeless person who's selling
31:10pins and paper on the side of the road to like stay alive oh my god like it equally extremely sad
31:19why okay so that song i play is technically a country christmas song and it sounds like that's a
31:24what is it about country christmas music that is so sad i don't know i feel like christmas music is
31:29either extremely jolly or extremely sad but there's not really a middle ground in texas and on the the
31:37the past the mason dixon line it's completely sad what's going on i don't know i don't know what's
31:44going on i'm trying to think of other country christmas songs there's plenty of them but i can't
31:48think of them right now but yeah it sounds like r&b christmas that's your lane r&b christmas is my
31:54lane but i also like um uh you remember the carpenters karen carpenter singing yeah of course
32:00merry christmas darling we're a part that's true but i can dream in my dreams that i'm christmasing with
32:11you all the lights on my tree i wish you could see i wish it every day the logs on the fire fill me
32:23with desire like okay so i feel like the carpenters are kind of the quintessential artists that could do
32:29a christmas album really well i'm wondering do you think that there are certain artists that just like
32:33really have a penchant for making good christmas songs given like the nostalgia the genre the style
32:38also no longer with us anymore luther vandrow so he's had a wonderful uh i'm not even gonna
32:46pretend to do a luther impression but put the swing in it because quincy jones produced it
32:56and even in the super traditional um oh come all ye faithfuls luther singing it just gives you
33:04goosebumps everywhere it's wonderful okay i do like a hymn though yeah i can i can do a hymn it is
33:10it's it's straight laced yeah i thought i thought you were saying you were you like luther vandros but
33:15you were putting like i like a hymn oh no no i like a hymn hymn yeah there's a mormon tabernacle
33:25choir uh in utah it's the most you youtube it it's the most wonder it's it's like a hundred
33:31person choir and they are just just it's perfect it's perfection
33:36yeah i can like like oh holy night is one of my favorites i yeah like fall on your knees like
33:43that's there's so much
33:44there's that chord again yeah we need it we need to identify this chord somebody what is this this is
33:56the key to why something sounds christmasy i guess literally yeah
33:59i wish i had my phone i said this guy sings it so well in like 2007 from this youtube video he just
34:09his voice is so operatic and great i don't remember but but yeah i think going back to
34:15one of my previous questions like what what do you think makes an artist like an apt choice for doing
34:22a christmas album could any artist do a christmas album i think if they wanted to i've heard
34:27haven't green day put out a like a hear those labels like someone's i guess you could yeah you
34:35could translate it into a lot of like jimmy eat world or something put out a christmas song i just
34:39feel if in sync can put out a christmas song and i i feel like it's it's about putting your distinct
34:45artistry into christmas like if you're a rock band you're gonna make it like rocky
34:51if you're you know me you're just gonna sing it exactly the way it's supposed to be because
34:57most of my non-christmas music sounds like christmas music
35:01okay so i want to do like a little bit of a christmas rapid fire what is the most underrated
35:09christmas song to you probably the my third time mentioning now the let it snow is okay is uh
35:18is and also grandma got run over by a reindeer by elmo oh wait did is that an elmo original
35:24no it was a guy and a girl and it's the only song i put out i think grandma got run over by a reindeer
35:32you ever heard the song well there's this whole other like part of now we're getting away from
35:36rapid fire but that's okay like um there's this whole other side of christmas music where you have
35:41just like hokey yeah it's like dominic the donkey it's um yeah i love christmas music i want a
35:51hippopotamus for christmas yeah all i want for christmas is my two front teeth that is the most
35:55genius lyric ever because all i want for christmas is my two front teeth so i could wish you merry
36:01christmas she can't say merry christmas because she has no fucking teeth it's amazing that's genius
36:08yeah yeah it's it is this like really strange subset usually sung by children yeah i feel like it's like
36:15uh almost like a musical children's kind of yeah there are another the
36:22the home alone one carol the bells yeah
36:26it's usually sung by kids and oh all the charlie brown stuff oh yeah
36:34christmas time is here there's the court again
36:39sleigh bells in the air and there's a lot of this really isn't a rapid fire anymore that's okay
36:46there's key changes in christmas music no one's afraid of a key change it's almost preferred okay
36:52so that's like another hallmark of the of the christmas if it's genre yeah i think it could be
36:58considered a genre another sub sub sub sub sub genre of christmas music is local acts
37:04there was this local band in new jersey called the holiday express that they sold their cds like
37:10independently and just for local charities and they sung a cover of a song no one wants to be alone on
37:17christmas none alone on christmas and it wasn't recorded very well because you know it's just like
37:22some local town stuff recorded next to the deli or something but it was wonderful and i would blast that
37:29cd on the way to second grade or my mom would and i wasn't driving i do think another subset that we
37:33haven't talked about but i don't think either of us are much of an expert in is like kind of the
37:37contemporary christian space like these mega churches that put out christmas albums that
37:42well they all sound like christmas songs the uh yeah the worship music where's my pianos
37:48my jesus my savior
37:55the mega church music
38:00that's not a christmas song shout to the lord that's what it's called
38:04it's like but like there's the george michael
38:20it's all related
38:23they're not they're not afraid of a key change either no definitely because i think like the
38:28hallmark of worship music to me modern worship music is you need to make sure that the whole
38:33congregation can catch on without sheet music without musical training they need to go and
38:38it's on the screen in front of you i've been to a few mega churches in my day being from texas yes
38:43and like they they just put it on a like a screen it's just the lyrics they don't give you a hymn
38:48bouncing yep kind of thing yeah it's a sing-along every sunday i mean you have to i mean that's the
38:55most universally great music with you that you can sing it without sheet music yeah any any joe
39:00schmoe can sing along yeah very true another part of my rapid fire which is not rapid yeah it's slow
39:06mud slow fire what is your favorite christmas soundtrack like what christmas movie has the
39:13best soundtrack oh my um i think the the grinch is pretty great um like the 2000 version yeah the
39:202000 the 2000 grinch okay so if you had to pick a traditional christmas song or a hymn
39:26what would be the go-to for you um probably
39:31that's amazing
39:39please be seated please be seated please be seated in the name of the father
39:50and of the son of the holy spirit very good christ be with you and also with you they don't
39:55say that anymore but oh they definitely still do they do oh yeah and also with you lift up your
40:00hearts we lift them up to the lord it's time to go back to christ has died it's it's time for you to
40:06go back to that catholic mass yes on december 25th i'm gonna light it up yeah well i i always love a
40:12like a silent night in the darkness that's always like the way that my church ended it off that's a
40:17banger oh in the what's in the oh yeah they'll turn off all the lights and just candle it and
40:22they just sing silent night very quietly
40:24yeah that's nice yeah it's great church never turned the lights off on me yeah i don't know i
40:31don't know it's different and what's the first christmas song you ever learned how to play as a
40:35kid i'm sure growing up that's like such a classic thing to do in like piano lessons or something
40:40i seriously think it was the carpenter song it's usually jingle bells jingle bells is for me it was
40:46probably jingle bells and i just don't remember because i was probably six but where i was like
40:52what's this chord i'm like i need to learn that that's probably like 98 yeah yeah yeah it's definitely
41:01that yeah and now i want to talk a little bit about what's coming up for you yes okay not a christmas
41:08album yes you're not releasing a christmas album but thank you for sharing all of your christmas
41:12insights with us today love christmas yes um okay so march 6th march 6th whatever's clever whatever's
41:20clever new album yeah um what can you tell us about it you have one single out is the single representative
41:24of the sound that you're going for in the full project it definitely is the honesty and all the
41:30chords that you'd expect from me are there um but i'm just singing about things i haven't sung about
41:37before like my insecure my personal insecurities my family my uh dealings with my tough conversations
41:46i've had with friends and relationships not romantic changing but for the better all in front of my eyes
41:56with a melody attached to it i other people's perspective on uh on things and not even making the song
42:06about me making it about them and just brutal honesty about how i've conducted myself in the
42:14past like it's things i never thought i'd write about yeah why do you think you're writing about
42:19it now was it just out of necessity or out of i guess growth and maturity i think definitely growth
42:25and maturity um and i also think that there's what feels like a hundred thousand artificially made
42:33songs come out every day and they sound perfect and pristine and buttoned up i think it's more
42:38important to be human than than ever and how do you do that you you sing about things that uh as of
42:45right now only a human could relate to yeah that's so true have you played around on suno or anything
42:50like that i have not because i just don't know how to use it and i saw i i looked at it one time on my
42:59buddy's computer and um like somebody was like you can take an mp3 and it'll spit five different
43:05versions back and my first thought was well why can't you just make them like the whole fun in
43:11producing out an instrumental whatever you're making the whole fun is exploring sounds on the keyboards
43:17capturing different sounds with different microphones and and make it like taking what's in
43:23your head and putting it into tape or the computer like that's like it's supposed to be fun and take
43:29a couple of hours to do why wouldn't why would just have something spit something back at you that's
43:36quite frankly not even that great yeah so i i report on ai quite a lot at billboard and um there
43:42there's this one time the suno ceo he really um and he's here right now and let's bring him out um
43:49no he kind of put his foot in his mouth uh this quote gets recirculated a lot but he said
43:54i don't think the majority of people enjoy the majority of time making music that's his quote
43:59which i feel like you just completely uh dismantled that argument well he said that or was it taken out
44:05of context i mean that that is what he said like word for word but i mean there's obviously like a
44:10larger answer around that but yeah well that doesn't that doesn't apply to me i i 7 a.m. will be on
44:17the clock and then 7 p.m. will arrive instantly because i'm just having such a good time
44:21making something i just i don't know until the ai engine can make you feel something like what the
44:29christmas shoes just almost did to me i don't know i'll yeah then maybe open my mind up a little bit
44:34more but i always have i lead with an open mind um but not if it's going to negatively affect
44:40hard-working men and women producing for a living yeah so are you a morning writer like did you
44:46write a lot of this stuff like first thing in the morning we're at like 10 a.m like normal like
44:51time yeah um i'm not a night i i'm a night writer for other artists yeah when i've like got my own
44:59stuff done and then i can help them out that's that's what i like to do and why did you choose
45:04changes as your first single for this i just feel like it like the it was the song with the biggest
45:10umbrella of like what you can expect doesn't make a lot of sense but like it it does it does
45:16right like it's it there's it's it's not about the changes it's common misconceptions that it's not
45:23about the changes that are in my life it's the changes that are happening because of somebody and
45:30i guess it's affecting me too but it's about the change of a friendship and it's not about it's not
45:36a song about me becoming a father yeah although a lot of people think that that's like part of it
45:41yeah i mean i am becoming a father soon congrats thank you but the songs about how friendships
45:48change when you move two hours away where you move to a different state and you just you just
45:55don't go in the same circle anymore and some it's not even a bad thing there's no love loss it's all
46:00innocent that's actually a lyric in the in in the ever dying bridge do people write bridges anymore
46:06i love a bridge i love a bridge i think they're coming back yeah are you going to bring back
46:10bridges on this album are they across the album there's so many bridges and you think that like
46:14you you wonder where the key is going and it goes so far and then you're just instantly transported
46:21back to the key center well i can't wait to hear the whole album it's really exciting do you have any
46:26other singles that are going to come out in the new year you're just going to drop the full thing
46:29no we'll put a couple more songs out to okay because it's a it's a not a departure sound wise
46:36for me but it's definitely i realize it's a lot different than my last two albums three albums so
46:42you know people are the fish and you put them into uh into the fish tank with like the the plastic bag
46:50you know like when you go to pat smart and you get a new fish and i just don't use this because they're
46:54like you're we're warming them up okay okay i love it um and i ask everyone before they leave
47:01my podcast to help me make a playlist based on three prompts okay so um my first prompt is what
47:08is a song that you can no longer gatekeep so a song that's lesser known sub zero by ben clock
47:14okay i'm not familiar now you are yeah that was gatekept before yeah now it's out gosh i i think uh
47:22don't let me be lonely tonight by james taylor i feel like people know it but i don't know if they
47:27know it as well as like fire and rain and all of your smiling face and it was kind of like a
47:32a hit b-side on the other side of the tape and any love by luther vandros yeah big luther shout out
47:40today really good song i i wouldn't gatekeep that anymore that's i think it's like track six on a
47:48marcus miller produced record that's those are good picks okay so what is a favorite throwback so
47:54i define this as like anything over 10 years old which leaves a lot of music right from favorite
47:59throwback um i think lucky by britney spears oh yeah really really good so good the christmas
48:06chord progression she's so lucky she's so lucky last christmas i gave you my same chord progression
48:14okay so if you put sleigh bells on that could we pass it as a christmas song absolutely
48:19um okay and lastly what is a guilty pleasure for you
48:23to look at car interiors okay well no i mean songs oh
48:32that's my guilty we talked about so much music i'm like what's a guilty pleasure i'm like i don't
48:38collect stamps i love i know a lot about car interiors oh guilty pleasure song um we're gonna
48:44have to have you back to talk about car interiors though yeah i want to i'm sure hot off the press
48:48at billboard i'm sure they can't wait for that um probably i think uh i like i like the opa light
48:59song by taylor swift oh yeah yeah yeah it's it's not called the opa light song it's called opa light
49:05yeah it sounds it sounds like abba
49:07it feels like an abba song it does yeah that's the christmas chord progression and
49:16interesting i'm finding out that a lot of swedish songwriters use the christmas chord progression
49:21we're we're almost to something i don't know what we're i don't know what we're on to but
49:26it's something well charlie thank you so much for coming to on the record this was super fun
49:30and chaotic i know and chaotic and very fun thank you for having me that was amazing and such a
49:36special opportunity to get to sit down with professor pooth himself another thank you to
49:40charlie for his time and his expertise thanks for listening to this week's special holiday episode
49:45of on the record the show will be off for the next couple weeks but don't worry season one still
49:50continues in january starting january 22nd and the lineup for the rest of the season is
49:56stacked so come back and join us again but until then happy holidays again i'm your host kristen
50:02robinson and tune in in january for another peek behind the curtain of the music business i'll see you then
50:26forget to subscribe and hit the like button and hit it in the notification bell and hit it down and hit the notification bell
50:33and press it up and hit it and hit it and hit it and hit it so much for everyone maybe there's an avatar
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