- 3 months ago
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00:001's for sorrow, 2's for joy, 3's for a girl, and 4's for a boy,
00:205's for silver, 6's for gold, 7's for a secret never told,
00:36Devil, Devil, I defy Thee, Devil, Devil, I defy Thee.
01:06Good morning everybody, we had storm Agnes yesterday, that brought some strong winds and some heavy rains towards northern and western areas of the UK, but Agnes is no more, it's going to be a much quieter day for many of us actually, we've got some sunny spells around this morning.
01:23It was actually a really miserable morning, you know, there was no sunlight breaking through, it was quite bleak, but it had been really windy the night before.
01:31About 7 o'clock in the morning, a guy in the photography WhatsApp group that we were part of, dropped a picture in the group of Sycamore Gap Tree, but it was on its side.
01:42It was a very pixelated picture, you couldn't really see it very clear, and I was like, that's got to be a Photoshop, you know, and all the lads in the group were like, nah, can it be real, can it be real?
01:55I don't think it's real, buses are fly up, and we're just basically headed straight to the tree, you know.
02:01I knew from the military road, you could get a good sight of the tree side on.
02:20I pulled up on the military road, got my camera, my big lens out, aimed it at the tree, I was like, oh my god, it is, it's down.
02:31We're headed up to the tree, it was about 8 o'clock-ish.
02:42When we got to the tree, it's just like gobsmacked, absolutely gobsmacked.
02:50I documented it all, and I recorded a video, you know, put it on my social media platforms, I was like, look, this is actually happening.
02:56Absolutely shocking.
02:59Destroyed forever.
03:02Really sad, isn't it?
03:07I remember thinking, it's as if somebody went along with a still-so and cut the time bridge down.
03:13The sorrow around, you know, just the sadness, it was horrendous.
03:17I remember going on a social media, and it was just the most sickening, sickening feeling.
03:30For astronomers like me, the sycamore gap was particularly special because it's so photogenic, with the symmetry.
03:38Seeing the tree, lying there, dead, it just felt, it felt like, oh, it was a murder.
03:58My initial thought was, has the storm taken it down?
04:01But when it was hinted very, very early on, no, no, no, someone's actually, some people, someone's done this.
04:11You can see the markings on the tree, you can see all this stuff.
04:14It completely changed.
04:21Who in the right mind would do this, you know?
04:27You're talking about psychopaths.
04:31Something awful's happened up at Sycamore Gap.
04:33We've just managed to stand this up in the last few minutes.
04:35The famous tree at Sycamore Gap has been cut down.
04:39It's like stealing joy, that tree was ours.
04:42I'm sitting in a car park, weeping.
04:43All that remains is a stump.
04:54It was palpable, the shock in the community.
04:57I saw it on Facebook.
04:59I remember seeing the pictures, thinking, it's a joke, it's, is it April?
05:06Disbelief, anger.
05:08You literally had your head in your hands going, I can't believe this is happening.
05:13You just don't understand why.
05:15It was such a bizarre thing to happen.
05:21We just couldn't work out why anybody would want to do that.
05:24It had to be something malicious.
05:28It would have to have been cut down because some brain-dead idiot thought it would be good fun.
05:33I was at work and I started hearing across the office that the tree had been felled or had fallen over.
05:49No-one knew what had happened, so 999 calls were coming in.
05:54Nothing via police, how can I help?
05:56I've been shocked as he reported that the tree at Sycamore Gap has been cut down.
06:01The tree has been felled overnight.
06:03It's all like the social media.
06:05Apparently, someone fell from the tree at Sycamore Gap.
06:07I don't know if you're aware.
06:08I'm not aware at all.
06:10It will be on the national news tonight, I guarantee it.
06:14Yeah.
06:15Yeah, just to confirm, there's a variety of folk taking photographs.
06:19Police officers were dispatched to identify what was happening and, in essence, get that scene controlled.
06:25If you could just clear back a tad, just so we can gather as much evidence as we can, OK?
06:30Thank you very much.
06:33Right, I cannot see any property lying about.
06:37I cannot see any oil.
06:38I can't see any footprints.
06:41Obviously, every man and his dog's trailed through here this morning.
06:44There has been spray paint, sprayed around the base.
06:49There's a clean cut three quarters of the way through.
06:52There might be a local tree searching, to be fair.
07:00In this case, the victim is, for want of a better word, the tree, really.
07:05So, straight away, it's criminal damage.
07:10Someone has unlawfully cut that tree down.
07:13It was damaged to Hadrian's wall, as well.
07:15I work in the major investigation team, and the majority of the incidents that we do with are homicides, criminal damage.
07:23There isn't generally something that crops up in any of my investigations.
07:26And my experience around trees, felling, anything like that, is pretty much zero.
07:32So, I identified Detective Inspector Callum Meagel, because he worked in the rural crime team.
07:39I never thought that I'd be in a position like I am today, talking about a criminal damage, because that is what it is.
07:54The fact that somebody had chopped down the sycamore gap tree.
07:59For me, it's an attack on people's, the way people live.
08:05The sycamore gap means an awful lot to a lot of people.
08:19So, the tree was planted about 130 years ago by a local landowner, in a dip between two escarpments, right next to Hadrian's wall that was built centuries ago.
08:29To people of the northeast, it's been somewhere that has been visited for an awful long time.
08:40Families would make a yearly pilgrimage.
08:44People would go there and propose and scatter ashes.
08:49The tree has been through so much.
08:56World wars, storms.
08:59So, you always believe it's going to be here forever.
09:05It did feel like a friend.
09:07I know it sounds silly, but it felt like it was a gift.
09:11Just for you.
09:13So, yeah, it was really special.
09:15For sure.
09:19I wanted to find out who was responsible.
09:30Crime scene investigators were dispatched.
09:35When I reviewed the photographs, I could see a wedge and hinge method had been used to fell the tree.
09:41And I had a few puzzled faces as to, how do you know that?
09:48Which I explained that my father was a forester, so I understood the technicalities.
09:53So, the wedge, it's like a big bit of cheese that you see in a supermarket.
10:01You know, it's that shape.
10:04And it is cut out on the side that you're going to fell the tree and gets placed to one side.
10:11Our crime scene managers searched around the tree itself.
10:19However, we weren't able to find it.
10:22So, we were minus the wedge.
10:27I thought, hmm, this is interesting.
10:31If you're going to do something of this sort of significance, you would take a trophy.
10:37And the most obvious section would be the wedge.
10:40So, I made the decision not to release the fact that the wedge hadn't been recovered.
10:47I wanted to keep that quite tight in the investigation.
10:50If we were able to locate that wedge, we could find the person who has committed this crime.
10:58BBC Radio Newcastle.
11:01At two o'clock, police investigations are underway in Northumberland.
11:06Police were all over the hillside.
11:08And it was like a murder scene.
11:13It's part of the fabric of our community.
11:16But today, a tree...
11:17We had every TV, news company asking for interviews.
11:22To the point of where I didn't know which one was which.
11:27This grand old sycamore fell.
11:30We thought someone was playing tricks on us and then we saw the news.
11:32It's just mindless vandalism.
11:35Whoever's done this needs to do some serious time work.
11:37The video that I put on the social media, the post hit like over two million views.
11:42Which was just crazy.
11:43Because I only had like a couple of hundred people following us.
11:48And that's when all the rumours started to fly about.
11:52What do you think of it?
11:53That someone could do that?
11:54My guessing is maybe a disgruntled local farmer.
11:57Don't like tourists or just someone who's very sad.
12:00As soon as a case hits media,
12:04I knew that we would then generate intelligence.
12:10Nothing but a police.
12:11How can I help?
12:12The lad who's local to the area,
12:15he's always joking about felling the tree at Sycamore Gat.
12:18And I don't know why you would want to do that.
12:20Because it's probably the most iconic tree in Northumberland.
12:23Now I've got a feeling it possibly could have been him.
12:30One of the first calls made to police
12:33put forward a young lad from the local area
12:37out of genuine concern.
12:40You know, it's just trying to be judged about doing it.
12:43You know, it's a shit thing to do, I think.
12:48I remember wondering,
12:50could this have been committed by
12:52somebody younger in years
12:54who hasn't seen the potential significance of his actions?
13:00So we need to act quickly
13:02and make sure that we don't lose pieces of evidence.
13:10Now the keeper would a-hunting go
13:14And under his army carried a bow
13:16All far to shoot the merry little doe
13:18Among the leaves so greeno
13:21Jackie boy, master, singing well, very well
13:23Hay down, ho down, derry, derry down
13:25Among the leaves so greeno
13:27To my hay down, down, to my ho down, down
13:30Hay down, ho down, derry, derry down
13:32Among the leaves so greeno
13:34Now the first doe he shot
13:37Holwistle is the closest town to Sycamore Gat
13:39There's the Pennines on one way
13:42And then there's the Roman Wall behind you
13:44Jackie boy, master, singing well, very well
13:47Hay down, ho down, derry, derry down
13:49Edge of the world kind of place, I think
13:51Well, like the frontier
13:53The northern frontier
13:55Among the leaves so greeno
13:58I run a 14-bed holiday home
14:03I run the local Facebook page for Visit Holtwistle
14:06I'm a local councillor on the town council
14:08I volunteer in the charity shop
14:10And I also work one day a week in the shoe shop
14:13And I'm supposed to be retired
14:15In Holtwistle, a lot of people depend on tourism
14:21And lots of people come to the area to visit the tree
14:24Two jobs, yeah, brilliant, thank you
14:26There's not much other than cattle and sheep and tourism
14:30Flash
14:32It's just a tree on Hadrian's wall
14:35Nobody ever thought about it, he talked about it or nothing
14:37Until Kevin Costner came to do the film there
14:40I am home!
14:41The tree looks absolutely fantastic
14:43In the film, it's unbelievable now that the tree has gone
14:47People come into the pub at least a dozen times a day
14:53And they'll literally say
14:54Can you tell me where the tree is?
14:55The one that used to be in Robin Hood
14:56We sell more Sycamore Gap than all of the other beers put together
15:00We have a wine called Under the Sycamore
15:03We have Sycamore Gap Gin
15:04And then I have a tree which lights up as well
15:07So yeah, anything but Sycamore
15:09Everyone just wanted to know who it is
15:14Who's done it and why?
15:17Northumbria Police have confirmed they've arrested a 16-year-old boy this afternoon
15:22The tree in Sycamore Gap is...
15:24And all of a sudden I heard that a young 16-year-old kid was being arrested
15:29And he was from around this local area
15:33We literally couldn't believe it, we couldn't understand why
15:36Once the rumour started flying about the 16-year-old lad who was arrested
15:44Everybody started like a witch hunt
15:46I remember going on social media and it was quite, like, pretty nasty stuff
15:50And I was thinking
15:53I want to make sure this is actually correct, like, because this could ruin a kid's life
15:56Everybody focused on him and it was going to be him
16:06And I was like, you've got to think about it
16:08How can a 16-year-old go up there and chop down that tree?
16:11It can't be him
16:12Searches were conducted and also he was interviewed
16:21He categorically denied being responsible for the criminal act
16:27He provided an alibi which checked out
16:30So he was quickly ruled out of the investigation
16:33I do know the 16-year-old
16:42And I know that it has had a negative effect on him
16:45He was totally innocent
16:47At that point in time, given the nature of the information that was passed to the investigation team
16:56You have to have investigated that properly
17:00Because that's justice
17:03But the next arrest, we needed to get it right
17:07There is anger and dismay in Britain this morning
17:19A tree that has stood in northern England for hundreds of years
17:24Has been chopped down
17:25And police say it was a deliberate act of vandalism
17:29Within 24 hours, it had gone from
17:37Local, to national, to international, global news
17:42The pressure that subsequently came with that is quite considerable
17:50The tree stood in Northumberland in the north end of England
17:55I needed to go up to the scene and search for potential evidence
18:02So myself and Becky, the boss, traveled together
18:06It seemed quite surreal when I looked where the Sycamore Gap is
18:14And it wasn't there anymore
18:15That's when the gravity of what had happened started to sink in
18:20We parked up in steel rig car park
18:29Which is the car park adjacent to where you would start the walk towards Sycamore Gap
18:33The first thing was looking at which route would they have taken
18:39What direction would they have come in
18:40What would they have been carrying
18:42Would it have been one person
18:43Would it have been more than one person that was involved
18:45I could see straight away
18:52The stump was laid bare
18:54I knew that as soon as a cordon was taken down
19:03People were going to be walking on the stump
19:05So what I wanted to do was maintain the integrity of that first cut
19:08So the best way that I could do that was to take a section of the entire stump
19:14I think people were quite shocked
19:22You know, it had already been cut once
19:24And now the police were coming and they were taking sections away
19:27Actually having the surfaces that were cut on that night
19:34We would have the best possible way of matching up tool marks to potential chainsaws
19:39It was a scene that provided quite significant challenges
19:47It's a very, very rural location
19:50There's plenty of sheep
19:52But unfortunately there are no cameras
19:55There are no witnesses
19:57We had a Twice Brood Inn
20:01That was as close to the scene that we were going to get
20:06The police started coming in
20:13Looking at CCTV
20:14Because we have it angled right round the pub
20:16This camera looks across our car park
20:22And you can see Sycamore Gap over here in the corner
20:25You couldn't quite see the tree because it's just in the dip
20:28But you can see the military road right outside the front of the pub
20:31The cameras do have automatic night vision as well
20:34We had a little look but I couldn't see anything
20:40So he just downloaded everything he needed
20:43We were like, imagine if there's someone parks in our car park
20:46And you see them take a chainsaw out
20:48I'd be like, oh my god
20:49So we're at a point now where we were really limited with what we had
20:59We needed assistance from the local community
21:03After the 16 year old was released
21:13There was lots of talk in the town about who and what and why
21:17And lots of theories of why people had done it
21:20It was a social media dare
21:27I thought, you have got to be joking
21:30Everybody was like naming people
21:34I think it was Bob who lives down the road
21:36I think it was him
21:37I think it was him
21:38Just because they have a chainsaw
21:40The thing is, most people around here have got chainsaws
21:46I've even got a chainsaw
21:48We've all got chainsaws
21:52I've just seen someone make a bit of an odd post on Facebook
22:00They've shared a meme about cutting a tree down with a butter knife
22:03They've shared a post about cutting it down with a butter knife
22:06Not about specifically cutting the sycamore gap tree down with a butter knife
22:10One of the kids in my lesson today
22:14Was talking about cutting down the tree the other day
22:17I think he was your team
22:18And I was like, oh my
22:19It's a weird thing to drink about, isn't it?
22:21Yeah
22:22I've got a postal suspect
22:27He's got a motive
22:28We shall pass on here
22:29I've got no evidence
22:30A local farmer believes they've got the name of the postal suspect
22:35Right, okay
22:36Have you got any details for the farm?
22:38We had quite a number of names being put forward
22:41And there was a recurring name
22:44There was a chap called
22:46The name I've been given is
22:49He's getting chucked out of his house
22:51Part of the evidence against him has come from the National Trust
22:54And who owns the sycamore gap tree National Trust
22:57When you've got somebody being put forward on a number of occasions
23:02It will always, you know, put your interest
23:05As a local living in Holtwistle
23:07Everyone is naming one man
23:09He had knowledge and previous experience
23:15And he also had a real motive to potentially commit this criminal act
23:22That night on day two
23:27The second arrest was made
23:29Certainly there was a potential grudge with the National Trust
23:34Is this revenge?
23:36A second person has been arrested in connection with the felling of the sycamore gap tree
23:42We've just been told that a man in his 60s has been arrested by Northumbria police
23:46People are starting to think that somebody did this
23:50Who had a grudge against the National Trust
23:52Everyone believed it
23:56Everyone in the local area started to think
23:58Okay, that makes sense
23:59Maybe that's what happened
24:00I hope they throw the book at, you know, whoever did it
24:03We don't know who
24:04We wait for some news
24:05During the interview, he provided an account of his whereabouts
24:13Which we were able to confirm
24:14He categorically denied any involvement, any knowledge
24:20He said he wasn't fit enough to have committed this offence
24:25So I was satisfied that he wasn't involved
24:29And it was decided that he could be released
24:33Within 48 hours, we had interviewed and bailed two people
24:43We had names, we had people being put forward
24:46But we really didn't have anything solid
24:49As it happens, it was just complete hearsay
24:55You know, it wasn't true at all
24:57I got fed up of listening to, it could be this, it could be that
25:06You need concrete proof
25:07And I thought, the police, they need to get their act together
25:10The eyes of the world were looking at this investigation
25:16And what was Northumbria Police doing
25:19About identifying who was responsible for cutting this famous tree down
25:22It was a hard period of time
25:38We really didn't have anything to go on
25:41I do get very invested in what I do
25:46Because if I lose interest
25:48It would be a case that, you know, was never solved
25:51But I was never going to lose interest in this
25:54So I went back through the calls
26:00There was one witness
26:15Who was in his campervan on that night
26:26I was parked in the nearest car park
26:28Called Steel Rig Car Park
26:30All night
26:31As far as anybody knows
26:34I've been the only vehicle here
26:36With no plausible explanation
26:38So I kind of don't want to be accused of cutting the tree down
26:42When he woke up in Steel Rig Car Park
26:48To find quite a number of people there
26:49He contacted Northumbria Police
26:52But the information he was able to provide
26:57Was quite key
26:59When I turned up in the car park
27:02There was nobody here
27:03And I turned up about ten, half ten
27:05And obviously I went to sleep
27:07But one o'clock in the morning
27:08I was woken up by a vehicle leaving the car park
27:10All I know is that it was a four by four of some description
27:20I know that just by hearing it start up
27:22Because I'm a mechanic
27:23I didn't hear it turn up
27:30But it woke me when it left at one o'clock in the morning
27:33That information meant that we could look at the Twice Brood Inn CCTV footage
27:41At that specific time
27:42Round about one o'clock in the morning
27:48You can see a set of lights
27:51There's a vehicle travelling along the military road
27:59In a westerly direction
28:02Almost an hour earlier
28:05At 23.55 hours
28:07There was a set of lights
28:09That had travelled in an easterly direction
28:12In the background
28:16You can see the vehicle
28:18Turn off the military road
28:21Heading up the minor road
28:23And out of sight
28:25Up that road
28:32Is the steel rig car park
28:36So that gave us 63 minutes
28:48And that would give enough time
28:50To walk from the steel rig car park
28:53To the gap
28:54Fell the tree
28:55Return
28:57And drive away past again
28:59So now we can use our other CCTV opportunities
29:05To start looking at the potential journey
29:08Into the area
29:09However, in October
29:16Everything changed
29:18We received an anonymous tip-off
29:25Identifying two individuals
29:27Daniel Graham
29:29And Adam Carruthers
29:30We'd never heard of those individuals before
29:33The tip-off
29:37Made mention
29:38Of the fact
29:40That these two lads
29:41Had retained
29:42A section of the tree
29:44The fact that a piece of the tree
29:49Hadn't been recovered
29:50That information
29:52And that detail
29:52Wasn't known
29:53I think at that point
29:54That's when I realised
29:55Actually
29:55There's something significant here
29:58You think, right, okay
30:01What do we know about them?
30:03What do we need to know?
30:05Daniel Graham
30:06Was on Facebook
30:08Has been a ground worker
30:09And quite obviously
30:11Was involved in tree surgery
30:14I was expecting
30:16That they would have been
30:17From the local community
30:18However, both individuals
30:20Reside in the Carlisle area
30:22Which is quite strange
30:24There's quite a distance
30:24From Carlisle
30:25Across to
30:26The Sycamore Gap tree
30:28I remember
30:33Taking a phone call
30:34From the intelligence unit
30:36He said
30:37I've ran
30:38The vehicles
30:38Associated to them
30:40Across ANPR
30:41And he says
30:43There's a Range Rover
30:45That's registered
30:46To Daniel Graham
30:47And it travels
30:50From Cumbria
30:51Into Northumbria
30:53Police area
30:54And then an hour and a half later
30:56Travels back out again
30:58And does exactly the same route
31:00But in the reverse
31:02Spoke to the boss
31:06And said
31:07Fasten yourself in
31:08I think we've really
31:09Got something going here
31:10And it was at that point
31:11I raised them
31:12As suspects
31:13I wanted to arrest
31:18Simultaneously
31:19To prevent any collusion
31:20Between the two
31:21Daniel Graham
31:26Lived in a piece of land
31:27In a caravan
31:28There were lots of outbuildings
31:32It was quite a chaotic location
31:34Are you going to let a couple of these dogs in the kennel?
31:39Aye, sure
31:39Are they all right?
31:40They're friendly?
31:41It's covered in mud, that's all
31:43Oh, that's all right
31:44Is it Daniel?
31:45Aye
31:45Oi, come on
31:47Oi!
31:49Daniel, at this time, okay
31:51I'm going to arrest you on suspicion of criminal damage, okay?
31:53We want to interview you regarding the damage, okay?
31:56I've got fuck all on underneath
32:01Yeah, I'm not going to
32:02I'm going to let me colleagues stay in
32:03Watch you put some clothes on
32:05Aye
32:05Put some clothes on
32:06That's just when we arrest you
32:08We can't leave you on your own
32:09But I'll step out
32:09And I'll let you thingy
32:10Aye
32:11I led the team that went to Adam Carruthers
32:19Adam Carruthers' address was in an old airfield
32:24I awoke him knocking on his caravan window
32:28It was certainly not something that he was expecting at that point in time
32:33For them to be travelling to custody was a relief
32:38Okay, the time now is 15.55
32:46It's the 31st of October, 2023
32:49Daniel, are you responsible for criminal damage
32:53Namely, felon of a tree at Sycamore Gap?
32:56No
32:56No?
32:58Dan, can you recall your movement on that night?
33:00I'll be honest with you, it's a month ago
33:02And I haven't a fucking clue
33:03You haven't a clue?
33:04I don't know
33:05Would you recall if you had done anything out of the ordinary?
33:08I think if I'd cut that tree down a bit
33:10I'd turn it on to you today
33:11I don't know where I was that day
33:13Yeah
33:13I didn't cut that tree down
33:15So on that day
33:16I didn't do anything exciting
33:17Anything exciting last night or the night before
33:20I couldn't tell you what I had done three days ago, four days ago
33:23Couldn't have a fucking clue
33:24That's for a month
33:25I obviously don't know
33:26Daniel Graham seemed quite calm
33:32And quite ready to answer questions
33:35Even in his posture when he was being interviewed
33:38He was very laid back
33:39He was quite
33:40Almost arrogant
33:43Adam, do you understand what you've been arrested for?
33:53Yeah
33:53You do
33:54So you've been arrested on suspicion of criminal damage
33:58Yeah
33:59And it's in relation to the tree that was cut down in Sycamore Gap
34:03Yeah
34:03Adrian's wall
34:04Yeah, yeah
34:04Do you have any knowledge about who's responsible?
34:08Well, none at all
34:09Like I had to study near Bobby on the 15th of September
34:14And my partner shared a cesarean
34:16So I was like around helping her
34:19So between this period, the 23rd and the 28th of September
34:22Would you have left Cummium?
34:25I wouldn't have thought so
34:26Adam was non-committal
34:33His response was quite often, I wouldn't have thought so
34:36You weren't in that area?
34:38No, I wouldn't have thought so
34:39It's quite an unusual answer
34:44Either no, you weren't
34:46Or I don't think so
34:48I wouldn't have thought so
34:50Like
34:50I wouldn't have thought so
34:54No
34:54What about a lad called Dan?
34:59Dan Graham
35:00I know Dan
35:02You know Dan?
35:03How do you know Dan?
35:05It was quite weird how we were going on, to be fair
35:07He asked us to
35:11Let the family see his dad's Land Rover
35:13Before my dad died
35:15My dad's Land Rover really was fucked
35:17So if I put it into Adam, he did it well
35:18It was that kind of a real mind
35:20And Adam said, she'd picked up
35:21That's pretty much one of the people I say
35:24He's got it every day
35:25The only person I'm not going with, like
35:27To good friends?
35:29Does Adam come to yours?
35:31Do you want to his?
35:32Sometimes it comes to mine
35:33Sometimes they go to his
35:34Does Adam stay over at your place?
35:37No
35:38No, I'm just asking if
35:41As a friend he may stay
35:42I was overseeing and managing the interviews
35:54And then also at the same time
35:57Receiving updates from the two scenes
36:00So
36:02Daniel Graham's property
36:05Was a piece of land
36:06With a large static caravan
36:08And some outbuildings
36:11Filled with
36:12All manner of
36:14Agricultural machinery
36:16The Black Range Rover
36:22Was immediately secured
36:25The vehicle was transported
36:40To Northumbria Police
36:41Where we could conduct
36:43A forensic analysis
36:43To see if we could identify
36:45Further evidence
36:46Have you got any reason
36:51Why a range rover
36:52Will be in that vicinity?
36:54Would anybody else
36:58Have access to that?
37:01Yeah
37:01Do you keep a note of who's had it?
37:06I don't think I didn't take to anyone
37:08Since we've sent the news
37:10The search has continued
37:17And within some of the small outbuildings
37:20There were chainsaws hanging on the wall
37:23The officer can ask the question
37:27Do you want a chainsaw?
37:29This would be free to part of the yard
37:31Right
37:31And would we be able to link those
37:33To the feloners of the tree?
37:35There wouldn't be big enough
37:35Right
37:36Would you have access to that?
37:38If you had a bigger saw?
37:41I'm sure anyone would put up
37:42The chopping by his chainsaw
37:43They were fairly short bar saws
37:45They didn't have the sufficient blade length
37:49For chopping down the sycamore gap tree
37:51Does Adam work for you?
37:55He does tree work
37:57Tree work?
37:58Yeah
37:58Would you say Adam's pretty good at tree work?
38:02Yeah
38:02Yeah
38:03Who was it you worked for, Adam?
38:06I worked for a few people to be fair
38:08So I'd just like help out
38:11Doing a mechanic sort of thing
38:12And have you had any training
38:14And a chainsaw operating chainsaws
38:16Anything you want to ask?
38:17No, none of that
38:18Like
38:18If I'm honest
38:19I'm not really keen on them to be fair
38:20Because they are nasty
38:22They can say
38:22Adam was trying to push himself away
38:29From any capability
38:31And use of a chainsaw
38:32Yet his friend stated
38:34That actually he was really quite handy with a saw
38:37Have you ever done the tree before?
38:40No
38:40Not to my memory
38:42Not to my memory
38:44Like
38:44I've
38:44I've never
38:45You're saying you've never filmed one
38:47And you wouldn't know how to do it?
38:49No
38:50I wouldn't
38:50I wouldn't have had to try it that way
38:52You start to think
38:53We're on the right tracks here
38:56At that point in time
39:09Detective Constable Kim Reid
39:11Had been seconded onto the team
39:13And I asked Kim
39:15To prioritise the devices
39:17Sees from Daniel Graham and Adam Krullers
39:20Was that your phone?
39:22Yeah, yeah
39:23That's your one
39:23Adam had what we would refer to as a burner phone
39:28It was a very small phone
39:30With very limited capabilities
39:31And they've both said
39:33You'll never find anything on my phone
39:35What about the password?
39:37Do you have a password?
39:39Save
39:39Normally people don't provide pins to their phones
39:42If they have something to hide
39:43So when Dan gave his PIN code
39:45I had a bit of a sinking feeling
39:47And think
39:48They've got nothing to hide
39:49They're willing to help you
39:50Take my mobile phone down
39:51All that you want
39:52Just fuck all of mine
39:53All that I phone over
39:54That shit like
39:54Are you totally denying this offence?
39:57Totally denying it
39:57That's taking all the gaps
39:58For COVID dude mate
39:59I did not trip to that fucking tree
40:01That's quite known by the source of news
40:03Oh fucking boiling
40:04That's my livelihood
40:05That's fuck my livelihood
40:07Coming in these days
40:08Fuck my livelihood
40:08Because no doubt you're talking
40:10But my fucking name on the press
40:11Now I've been locked up
40:12That's my business
40:13Fuck
40:14Probably by the time I go up over here
40:15And I've figured out something
40:16I'm going to be the centre of the fucking face
40:18Because mine needs tied to this shit
40:20When the search had been concluded
40:29We failed to find anything
40:32That could clearly tie Adam
40:34Into using chainsaws
40:36Or being involved in that sort of industry
40:37There was nothing else significant
40:39Found on either of the searches
40:41And also unfortunately
40:46We failed to locate the wedge
40:48Have you travelled with Dan Graham
40:55And his Range Rover
40:56Into this area?
40:58I wouldn't have thought so
40:59I'd have thought so
41:00Okay
41:01I'd conclude the interview with Adam Caruthers
41:04All right so I'm going to terminate the interview
41:06I've got nothing further to ask than your colleagues
41:07You've asked all the questions
41:08After you've conducted your interviews
41:10You've got to understand whether you are at a point
41:15Where you could potentially go for charge
41:17We weren't at that point
41:21So on the evening of the 31st
41:27Daniel Graham and Adam Caruthers were bailed
41:29Suspicion of criminal damage
41:30And have been bailed while inquiries
41:32There was an awful lot of work to do on both suspects
41:34This case had obviously been going for about a month
41:47With very little evidence
41:49And we needed something on their phones
41:51With one of our digital officers
41:54I reviewed Dan's phone
41:56And we just opened the camera roll
41:58And then we went to the date of the 27th, 28th of September
42:02First one was a black video
42:04So we started to play the video
42:09You can kind of see some shadows on it
42:16And we could just hear sounds of wind
42:18And then all of a sudden we just heard sounds of a chainsaw
42:24We couldn't really believe what we were hearing
42:36And I remember thinking
42:40You need to ring Callum
42:41And I need to tell him now
42:42I received a phone call from Kim
42:48And she said, there's a video
42:50So I rapidly put the phone down
42:53And travelled back to the northeast
42:55The video was very dark and grainy
43:05It was undoubtedly the sound of a chainsaw
43:11And then there was the sound of a tree
43:16Cracking
43:18And falling to the ground
43:24You can hear a tree crash into the floor
43:28I was astounded
43:37And I remember thinking
43:39And I remember thinking, this is it
43:40Potentially you've got fantastic evidence
43:48But that has to be presented evidentially
43:51To prove that that is that tree
43:56Because at the moment I had a black screen
43:58I spoke to our digital unit
44:03And said, you know, we need to get this all enhanced
44:06As fast as possible
44:07I continued to review this phone
44:11When I looked in the camera roll
44:16I could see a little image
44:17So I opened that one up next
44:20I'm not a wood expert
44:27But it does look like a bit of a wedge of a tree
44:30That had been cut out next to a chainsaw
44:32That surely can't actually be the bit of wood
44:35That we're looking for
44:36Are they really going to be that silly
44:38To cut it down, carry it
44:40And then take a picture of it?
44:42This photograph linked back to the tip-off
44:47That said that they'd retained a section of the tree
44:50But how do I prove that that wedge came from the sycamore tree?
45:12This is the slab from the sycamore gap
45:23This surface here is the original cut
45:26It's a massive piece of history
45:35It's quite something
45:37We enlisted the help of a forensic botanist
45:44And he was able to identify
45:46Firstly, the fact that the image was of a piece of sycamore
45:50But then he started looking at the characteristics of the wedge
45:54Photographs were taken of the slab
45:59And he was able to overlay the picture of the saw and the wedge
46:05In the back of the car
46:06This T-shape
46:13Lined up perfectly
46:14With the T-shape that we see
46:16On the image of the wedge
46:17In the back of the range rover
46:19It's like putting the jigsaw piece in
46:26It just takes him to place
46:28The scar
46:32Affectionately nicknamed the Harry Potter scar
46:35Is likely to have been damaged to the tree
46:38As it was growing
46:39It is unique as a fingerprint
46:42I would say it's some significant
46:50Evidence
46:52We had to get them re-arrested
46:56They've got some tough questions to answer now
46:58We need to know what's been going on
47:00But keep going on
47:05See you in the next week
47:08Yeah
47:09See you in the next week
47:13I'll see you in the next week
47:14Transcription by CastingWords