00:00And to reflect on Messi mania and the stark contrast with the pitiable state of Indian football and those chaotic scenes in Kolkata, I'm joined by a very special guest, someone who's been an iconic footballer for India for years, Baichung Butia joins me. Great to have you, Baichung, on the show.
00:16It's been quite a few days with the Messi tour, lots of fan mania that we saw, but questions are being asked and I want to start with that, that hundreds of crores spent by sponsors and organizers on the Argentinian football star, could the same money actually have been utilized to lift the standard of Indian football where we currently land 142nd in the world?
00:40Could the money have been spent as Abhinav Bindra, for example, has suggested on lifting the quality of sports infrastructure in this country instead of paying all the money to a big football star?
00:54Yeah, I think if you leave the commercial part of it, Messi coming to India definitely is a great and positive sign because it's going to, I think, you know, we had football news and Messi news for the last three, four days.
01:06And I think it's going to encourage and motivate and bring awareness to a lot of kids across India to play football.
01:12But yes, in terms of commercial, I think it was completely a private entity that did the entire tour.
01:18So when the private parties are, I think, involved, they obviously, to bring Messi, it does cost quite a lot of money and they did it commercially.
01:27And there were people, I think, spending money.
01:29There were corporates who spend money, which is a good sign.
01:31But I think this also shows that, you know, if they could come forward, especially the corporates and also people who paid quite a few thousands of rupees to get tickets to come and watch Messi,
01:43also now who'd come and start watching Indian football and also spend and invest in Indian football, that would be great.
01:50But again, this is a completely private tour, which was a commercial tour.
01:55So, you know, and they're bound to sell it commercially and the revenues, obviously, the numbers, what we heard in terms of money, I'm not too sure how much did it cost and what they mean.
02:04But when it's commercial, you can't help it.
02:06But Mr. Butia, no, no, Bhai Chung, I have no problem with it being a commercial tour.
02:11That's the logic of the market.
02:12But the truth of the matter also is, if Indian corporates can spend 10 lakhs to just get a photograph or a selfie with Lionel Messi on a tour where allegedly the economic impact exceeded 500 crores across the four cities,
02:26I mean, the same money, I repeat, could have gone into building better infrastructure, supporting coaches.
02:32That's what Indian football really needs.
02:34You don't even have a proper ISL Indian Soccer League anymore.
02:37Indian football is suffering, even as Indians seem to love football stars like Lionel Messi.
02:44Should sponsors now be looking to encourage, to build on this fan craze into building better sports infrastructure instead of getting temporary euphoria by clicking a photograph with Lionel Messi, especially the sponsors?
03:01Yes, again, if you look at corporates, because every corporate is not going to do charity.
03:06They always look back in returns what they get.
03:09And I think Indian football should be able to start getting results.
03:12Obviously, for that, we need to really get a structured performance right.
03:16But if I can give you my own example as well, Bhai Chung Putia Football School, BBFS, I've started the academy 15 years ago.
03:25You know, in the last 15 years, a lot of kids have gone on to play for India in different age groups.
03:29Till today, I have not taken a single rupee either from the state government or the central government to help me form this academy.
03:37We are the biggest grassroots football program in India today.
03:41So there's not been a single rupee or some kind of infrastructure support from a state, neither the central government as well, which I have not taken.
03:52And it's all been through BBFS coaches and the people working there.
03:56Through corporate, in the last two years, we've been slightly lucky in getting the CSR fund.
04:00So, yes, I think corporates are also looking at the returns.
04:03But sometimes I think there are corporates who've got a lot of CSR fund.
04:07And I think if those CSR funds could come into sports rather than anything else, and now the country is also looking at becoming big in terms of sporting nation.
04:17We've just got Commonwealth Games in a few years, and we're trying to bring in Olympics.
04:22And I think that is where the corporates and their CSR money should get into sports, you know, sporting, I think sports and sporting academies or something like that.
04:34Is part of the problem, Baichung, that Indians love sporting stars, but they don't love sport.
04:42We love to see the Messis and Ronaldos.
04:44We want to be photographed with Messi.
04:46But do we do enough to encourage our homegrown football stars?
04:51Do we actually want to build a sporting culture where every kid can get a chance to play the game?
04:57We want results at every level.
05:00If the Indian team today maybe was to do better at the Asian level.
05:04We might actually support the new football stars.
05:08But at the moment, nobody actually wants to see sport.
05:12They want to see the stars.
05:13Isn't that part of the problem?
05:17I think what you're saying is exactly right.
05:20I think we've been more starstruck rather than really, you know, sports oriented.
05:25But it's good to see that at least football as general, I think it's a global sport.
05:30And we've got such a huge fan following here in India as well.
05:34But it's time that we need to start encouraging, supporting the sport overall and just not try and become a nation where we are only starstruck.
05:43And that we've seen even with cricket as well.
05:47There are cricketers who are worshipped here in India.
05:49But when it comes to actual sport, if there's a good quality cricket between two nations that's not, which does not involve, say, India, maybe England or Australia playing, you don't see that kind of people watching it.
06:02So I think it's just been a star kind of a thing which we are getting, getting into starstruck kind of thing rather than really investing and promoting and watching sports to really push the game forward.
06:14But, you know, there will be those who are listening to you who will say, first, the Indian football team needs to start getting results, climb up the rankings, then the sponsors will follow.
06:25Sponsors go according to market realities.
06:28Today, the truth is, Bhai Chung, a lot of young Indians prefer to watch Manchester City or Barcelona, buy Barcelona or City shirts, but not Indian team shirts because the Indian team is seen as losers.
06:38Football is a global sport in which we've got left behind.
06:41Do you believe, therefore, that the real buck stops with the federation, the football federation that is reportedly in a mess and needs to do much more than they are doing today?
06:51Definitely, yes, if you look into, I think, you know, any, any, any, in India, especially, I think the results are very important where people connect.
07:02And whenever any internet, any Indian star does it well, international tournament, be it either in badminton or boxing, there has been huge support and fan following.
07:10So for football as well, I think we have to start getting results.
07:14But again, personally, I feel the system, what we are, what we have right now in football, I think it's a bit, a little outdated.
07:25The system, which is the structure, which is already there with states, district level, and every state and district level, I think are all honorary posts in that.
07:35So it becomes very difficult to really have committed people, you know, really working there.
07:39So we've got to get this complete system in the structure change, which is going to be a big, big challenge.
07:47You know, everybody says we need to start from scratch.
07:49The way football right now is we are in a very, very bad shape, no doubt.
07:53And we say that we need to start from scrap, which is fine.
07:57But for me, I think for starting from scrap, it is, there is already a system and structure, which has to be, I think, completely demolished and start from a new.
08:07And can I ask you, though, is Baichung Bhutia ready to lead the Football Federation?
08:14You've attempted it in the past.
08:15If you were asked tomorrow, we need a Baichung Bhutia to lead the Football Federation.
08:20You've got a private academy.
08:21But what we really need is you or Sunil Chetri to become the flag bearer of Indian football.
08:26Would you be ready to do that?
08:27No, I would want somebody who's really got passion, who's got the knowledge about the sport to come and lead, whether it does not need to be footballer itself.
08:38I did try earlier as well.
08:40But, yes, in India, I think there is a lot of political, you know, involvement in any football association, be it state or the federation.
08:48So, whether, and I'm not against that, if either state or the central government gets involved into elections of Sports Federation, I think they need to bring in the right people who's got that passion, knowledge and ideas to take the sport forward.
09:03But just not because somebody is with the party, some particular party, and just try and promote him.
09:10I think that's not going to help.
09:11So, you need to bring in somebody who actually has got the knowledge and passion to take it forward.
09:14So, that brings me to the other big question, the politics around the Messi visit.
09:19We've had the Kolkata, the West Bengal sports minister resign today after the chaos that we saw in Kolkata, which is one of your home cities where VVIPs and ministers of the Trinamul Congress seem more keen to get selfies with Messi and Suarez rather than allowing the fans to see them in what is seen as the spiritual home of Indian football.
09:39It's that VVIP culture, it's that VVIP culture that remains that many believe caused the chaos in Kolkata.
09:46Will that, do you see that the problem is that officials and ministers were more interested in taking selfies with Messi?
09:54They're not interested in football.
09:55Well, exactly, I think, I think this actually really exposed how much the VVIP culture and the political, you know, any big events, it's the politicians, some senior bureaucrats, including the journalists as well, gets into it and try and make the event and try to capture the event.
10:18I think till the time we don't change this mindset, the sport has to be the priority, sport has to be the first thing.
10:25I went to one of the biggest, one big event here in Delhi.
10:28I won't name what exactly, it was a World Cup Coco thing.
10:34And I couldn't believe two hours of speeches by the, you know, leaders, by Netas.
10:40The sport has to start, people have come there to watch, the players are waiting.
10:44And this is not just one particular event which I've seen, it's across everywhere.
10:49The players are waiting, the fans are waiting for the sport to start, but then you have political leaders, Netas coming in, giving their vasan.
10:57Then sometimes if you have, in smaller cities and states, when you have a political Neta who is the chief guest who comes late, the game itself is delayed because of your chief guest coming late.
11:09I think until and unless you don't change this mindset, I think sport is never going to go forward.
11:14You have to have sports as a priority, sports person the priority and the game should be the first thing, not, you know, the Netas or any, you know, self-claimed VIPs.
11:26So I think sport has to become, has to be given the priority in situations like this.
11:32That's right.
11:34Those were the shocking scenes we are showing you on the screens in Kolkata that brought great shame to that city, which is, as I said, the spiritual home of football.
11:41But my final question, Baichung, I think you spoke to or got to meet Lionel Messi.
11:46Did you tell him anything about the state of Indian football?
11:49What was your conversation like with the great Messi?
11:51What did you tell him?
11:52No, I didn't get to speak along just one or two lines because obviously it's a very, very packed schedule.
12:03I just said that thanks.
12:05I thanked him because my son and my kids, my daughters also do play football and they've been highly inspired by Messi.
12:13So I just said that my kids have, they love football is because of people like you and Messi's been their idol as well, especially my son.
12:22Yeah, he's the biggest idol, you know, for him.
12:25So I just thanked him for that and just said my kids adore him and love him.
12:30Well, let me leave it on that.
12:33We all are fans of Lionel Messi, but we, some of us at least, remain fans of Indian sport and Indian football,
12:39which is why we hope that the sponsors and the fans and the organizers who organized the Messi event will now put their money also and their support behind Indian football.
12:49Baichung Bhutia, always a pleasure talking to you.
12:51Thank you so much.
12:52Thank you so much.
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