„Udowodnijmy, że się mylą”: hiszpański minister gospodarki odpowiada USA

euronews (po polsku)

„Udowodnijmy, że się mylą”: hiszpański minister gospodarki odpowiada USA  Hiszpański minister gospodarki mówi, że Europejczycy muszą pozostać zjednoczeni i skupić się na integracji po tym, jak administracja Trumpa powiedziała, że gospodarka kontynentu dusi się przez nadmierną regulację i słabe przywództwo.  CZYTAJ WIĘCEJ : http://pl.euronews.com/2025/12/16/udowodnijmy-ze-sie-myla-hiszpanski-minister-gospodarki-odpowiada-usa  Zasubskrybuj nasz kanał.Euronews jest dostępny na Dailymotion w 12 językach

Transcript

00:00Muzyka

00:08Spanien jest to fastest growing economy among the euro area.

00:12Expected to see GDP growth of 2.9% this year.

00:15Extending explosive growth since 2021.

00:19To debrief on 12 Minutes With, we're joined by the Spanish Economy Minister Carlos Cuerpo.

00:25Minister, thank you so much for joining us.

00:28Obviously, you've had a very strong growth performance.

00:31But before we get into that, I want to ask you about the national security strategy

00:35that was put out by the U.S. government.

00:38They say Europe is weak. How do you respond?

00:42Well, you know, there is an easy response, I think, to statements, documents that come from abroad,

00:47is that we need to somehow go from reacting to outside shocks to really get to action.

00:54There is urgency to really provide and to really push for our policy agenda.

01:00And we should be talking, we should be having specific deadlines, we should be moving ahead with our roadmap.

01:05But when they tell you, and you're the Spanish Economy Minister and also an important country in the European structure,

01:11when you hear they are weak, the leadership is weak, there's too much regulation, there's successive migration,

01:17the green policies are wrong, they are not growing. Are you offended?

01:22Well, you know, this is very personal, but the reaction that it instills in me is a reaction of really proving them wrong.

01:29Okay.

01:29I think that's where we should be moving, and that's why we have to really enact all those policies and start moving.

01:35I think that's a proper reaction to all these statements, we have to keep on moving.

01:39There's a question permeating in Brussels which says, this has nothing to do with national security,

01:44it's political interference, and the goal of this administration is to dismantle the EU from within.

01:49Is that a credible threat?

01:51Well, again, I think Europeans were very much aware of the importance of unity within the EU,

01:55and how much the European Union protects us.

01:58And I think from the Spanish perspective, there is no case whatsoever in terms of really thinking about any other scenario,

02:05but going ahead in terms of integration, further integration within the EU.

02:09We've seen this year, this issue of unanimity is becoming a real problem in the EU.

02:15Is unanimity killing the EU from within? That's a real threat?

02:18Well, again, I think we are trying to find ways on important decisions, such as the funding for Ukraine,

02:24to avoid the blocking of these supports, and we will find it.

02:28I'm sure in the next few weeks we will find ways to...

02:31You think the first and assets will happen?

02:33I think in the end we will be able to go ahead with the insuring financing for Ukraine,

02:38which is the most important element at this point, because it has to do with Ukraine security,

02:41but also with European security, and thus European economy.

02:44But you're saying funding, you're not saying the reparations loan.

02:47So that means maybe it's not a reparations loan, it's something else.

02:49The Belgians continue to say, we don't like it.

02:51You know we're working hard to be able to go ahead with the reparations loan.

02:55From the Spanish side, we're pushing ahead as well.

02:57We think that there is space to go ahead, both legally and politically.

03:01We will have to, again, go ahead together with our colleagues, with the rest of the member states,

03:07and see to what extent, again, we can do that in the next few weeks.

03:10Okay, and we've got to talk about Spain.

03:12There's been a real reversal between the core and the south.

03:15How sustainable, having said that, is a 3% GDP growth for this country?

03:19Well, it's not just a short-term story.

03:21It's now a structural change in the Spanish economy,

03:25and how we are being able to lift up our potential GDP growth,

03:28which is the key for sustainability of our public finances as well going ahead.

03:32So there is, it's not just being able to get out of COVID without scars,

03:35but really modernizing our economy.

03:38That's the actual success story of Spain.

03:40How long can you keep it up, though?

03:41So what we're aiming at is a potential GDP growth of around 2%,

03:46which is doubling pretty much what we had pre-COVID.

03:48So that's essential.

03:49That's key for us.

03:50You know very well, however, your critics would say there is no structural story.

03:54It's European money and a boom in tourism.

03:56What do you respond to that?

03:58Well, there are many signals to actually look at where you can see this structural change.

04:02For example, you talked about tourism.

04:03But what we have now in Spain is a boom in non-tourism services,

04:07which are higher value-added services.

04:09Actually, we export more.

04:11Despite of being in record years in tourism,

04:14we export more in non-tourism services,

04:16which are IT, financial, accounting services, than in tourism.

04:20So the jobs are going to basically high-end sectors, innovation.

04:26Spain is the third fastest growing country

04:28in terms of its startup ecosystem for the past three years.

04:31So that's all these indicators really pointing towards the structural change.

04:35But the funding from the European Union,

04:36obviously after the pandemic, played a big role in the economy.

04:39You also can see that the funding, the Next Generation EU,

04:44which is a program built around it, will end next year, in 2026.

04:48What impact is this going to have in Spain?

04:49So we have a fully-fledged structural reform agenda,

04:52labor market, business environment, startup law,

04:55that are creating the conditions also for this growth to be sustained going forward.

04:59And then on the investment side, a strong investment push,

05:0380 billion in transfers for Spain,

05:04so that we could actually really put the stress on those areas

05:08that we think are sectors of the future,

05:10including the digitization and the green, of course, energy,

05:14which are the key vectors for Spain also going forward.

05:16So you're not concerned this funding is no longer there

05:18and that's going to have a negative impact on you?

05:20Well, you know, there are two elements here.

05:22So one is we will be discussing the medium-term financial framework for the EU,

05:26and that will start actually in December in the European Council as well.

05:29And we think that there is need for Europe to be somehow forward-looking

05:35and ambitious in terms of the size of its budget.

05:38You know very well that Draghi has been putting on the table financing needs

05:43for our investments that are above 5% of GDP

05:45and our budget barely reaches 2% and that's included in all different items.

05:50So we need to somehow be consistent on both fronts.

05:53We will be fighting for an ambitious MFF.

05:56You also call for joint debt.

05:58And of course, and there are many elements associated with the element of mutualization

06:02or joint issuance of debt.

06:05One of them is to reinforce, of course, the euro as a strong currency going forward

06:11because what we've seen is that we need a liquid market in terms of euro-denominated debt

06:16and that will come again as well from further mutualizing debt or from further issue.

06:22And just to end this chapter before we move on,

06:24on the Spanish economy in particular, there's the numbers which objectively are very good,

06:29but there's also the politics.

06:30At the start of the year, I remember you told me,

06:32we will have a budget.

06:33We are going to present and it's going to be successful.

06:35It's the end of the year.

06:36There's no budget.

06:37You've been rolling over constantly now.

06:39Your critics would say this is not just wrong, but it's undemocratic.

06:42Well, you know, we are now in the process of really putting forward the draft budget.

06:47But we've heard this before many times.

06:49I know.

06:50There is a specific, a clear commitment from the president to actually,

06:53beginning of next year, really present the draft budget in Congress

06:57so that we can discuss it and hopefully agree on it.

07:00Also, luckily, what we have in Spain is these provisions within our law

07:05to be able to roll over the budget from one year to the other.

07:09And that actually...

07:10But a rollover is an exemption.

07:11The criticism is that this is becoming too normal

07:13and that is not very democratic.

07:15What do you respond?

07:16The constitutional obligation is to present a draft.

07:18We will present a draft.

07:19And from then on, hopefully, we can agree on it

07:21because it's important for citizens to be able to see

07:24what the policy objectives are in terms of money,

07:27in terms of where we allocate,

07:28what items are prioritized throughout the budget.

07:32In fiscal terms, we're complying also with EU fiscal rules.

07:34So we are within the group of good pupils with good students

07:38in terms of fiscal and also macro imbalances.

07:40But you know it's rare to not have a budget for so many years.

07:43We know it's an exception, as you just called it.

07:46And we will try, again, to have it approved.

07:48We will present it.

07:50And we will go ahead with our partners and associates within the parliament

07:54to be able to get it ready.

07:56But you're also different to the rest when it comes to migration.

07:59In the European Union, we've seen now a much harder line.

08:02Obviously, there's a conservative majority now that is pushing for repatriation.

08:07Asylum seeking has to be monitored much more closely.

08:09Family ramification, it's the same.

08:11In Spain, however, we're seeing the numbers when it comes to migration growing.

08:15But you say that it's adding to the economy.

08:17Is migration for you an opportunity or a problem?

08:20Migration is a big opportunity for Spain.

08:23You don't think it's a problem?

08:25To the contrary.

08:26I mean, migration has proven to be a very positive factor

08:29for these very positive figures in terms of growth for Spain.

08:32and you can look at them in absolute terms.

08:35So how much it has contributed to growth,

08:36how much it has contributed to growth in per capita terms as well.

08:40There is an analysis from the Bank of Spain saying that

08:42between 0.4 and 0.7 percentage points of per capita growth

08:46for the past three years,

08:47which per capita growth in total was around 3 percentage points,

08:500.4 to 0.7 were due to migration, were thanks to migration.

08:54But some markets, because the vast majority of migrants coming to Spain

08:57are coming from Latin America.

08:58So there's a cultural, linguistical also to common ground.

09:03Some would say there are some cultures

09:06that are more difficult to assimilate than others.

09:08And that is a problem.

09:09When you hear that, is there an undertone of racism in it?

09:12Well, there is.

09:13You think the migration policy coming out of the European Union

09:16has an undertone of racism?

09:17No, I think those sort of statements have an undertone of racism.

09:21And I think we should really combat that through data and through evidence.

09:25And, you know, what those statements or what that evidence tells to me

09:30is that the better the integration policies, the greater the positive impact.

09:35The focus is on returns in Europe.

09:37Is the migration policy wrong now?

09:39You know, from the Spanish perspective,

09:41that's somehow the best way for us to be able to understand

09:44or put these discussions forward.

09:47What we know is that the bigger the effort in terms of integrating migrants

09:52through regular flows, the bigger the impact in social but also in economic terms.

09:57And when we...

09:57And irregular, is there a second chance

09:59or is this just a question of returning people back to their country?

10:02That's what was agreed this week.

10:03You know, when we think about the Spanish case,

10:06you mentioned, for example, people from Latin America,

10:0870% of the migration flows are coming to Spain from Latin America.

10:12But, you know, when you ask people, there is a disconnect between the data

10:16and the reality in terms of migration.

10:18And that leads immediately towards a more negative bias

10:21in terms of accepting positive migration policies or integration policies.

10:25And let me just give you the data.

10:28So this survey, which was run last May by a think tank in the Basque country,

10:33was asking Spanish people what they thought was the share of migrants in Spain.

10:37So the answer was twice the actual share of migrants.

10:41And they were asking what you think the unemployment rate within the migrant force is.

10:45And the answer, again, was twice the actual unemployment rate.

10:49And then the third question, which was very interesting, was

10:51what do you think is the share of migrants that is using transfers

10:55or subsidies or benefits from the state?

10:58And the answer was five times the actual rate.

11:00So, again, there is a clear disconnect between the reality...

11:04Why is that happening?

11:05Well, I think one of the elements that is happening is, of course,

11:11is these false narratives and these fake news in terms of the impact of migration

11:15that are leading towards a negative bias.

11:18And that's not grounded in data.

11:19There are no negative implications to migration for you.

11:22Well, again, you just have to look at the figures.

11:24And in our case, when you look at the impact of migration,

11:27of course, there are challenges going forward.

11:29And the integration challenge is a key one.

11:31But you face that challenge by really betting on integration

11:35and development policies in origin countries

11:38to allow for those people to have job opportunities in their own countries

11:43and, therefore, also reduce the danger that they have to endure

11:47in coming to our countries in an irregular manner

11:50and also reduce these irregular flows.

11:52Well, Minister, thank you so much for joining us on Uranians.

11:54My pleasure.

11:55My pleasure.

11:56Thank you.

11:57Thank you.

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