Powojenny system oparty na zasadach może być renegocjowany, mówi przewodniczący Eurogrupy
Irlandzki minister finansów i przewodniczący Eurogrupy, Paschal Donohoe, uważa, że Stany Zjednoczone podważają instytucje, które powstały po II wojnie światowej. W ekskluzywnym wywiadzie dla Euronews ostrzegł, że – jak pokazuje historia – „postęp może się cofać”.
CZYTAJ WIĘCEJ : http://pl.euronews.com/2025/05/15/powojenny-system-oparty-na-zasadach-moze-byc-renegocjowany-mowi-przewodniczacy-eurogrupy
Zasubskrybuj nasz kanał.Euronews jest dostępny na Dailymotion w 12 językach
Irlandzki minister finansów i przewodniczący Eurogrupy, Paschal Donohoe, uważa, że Stany Zjednoczone podważają instytucje, które powstały po II wojnie światowej. W ekskluzywnym wywiadzie dla Euronews ostrzegł, że – jak pokazuje historia – „postęp może się cofać”.
CZYTAJ WIĘCEJ : http://pl.euronews.com/2025/05/15/powojenny-system-oparty-na-zasadach-moze-byc-renegocjowany-mowi-przewodniczacy-eurogrupy
Zasubskrybuj nasz kanał.Euronews jest dostępny na Dailymotion w 12 językach
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NewsTranscript
00:00Welcome to the Europe Conversation.
00:09My guest this week is Pascal Donoghue,
00:11Finance Minister of Ireland
00:12and President of the Eurogroup
00:14of Eurozone Finance Ministers.
00:16He says his country and several others
00:18are against the idea of a digital tax
00:20on the tech sector
00:21in response to Donald Trump's
00:23widespread tariffs,
00:25despite the fact that this is a very popular move
00:27in other countries like France.
00:30Pascal Donoghue, President of the Eurogroup
00:33and Finance Minister of Ireland,
00:34thank you very much for joining us
00:35on the Europe Conversation.
00:37Shona, thank you for having me on.
00:39Well, look, let's start with the EU-US trade negotiations.
00:43We know that the EU has for some time now
00:45being offered a zero for zero tariff rate,
00:49but the US is not satisfied with that.
00:51It wants much greater access to the EU's markets
00:53when it comes to agriculture and other areas.
00:56And a lot of people would say
00:57that they'd like to see huge deregulation
00:59when it comes to the tech sector,
01:00the DSA, the DMA.
01:02Can you say that the EU is not for that,
01:05not for lowering standards
01:07for the sake of a deal?
01:09So we're not for lowering standards
01:10for the sake of that.
01:12And we do have to have a debate
01:15and an assessment within the European Union
01:17regarding our competitiveness
01:19and the degree to which decisions
01:21that we have taken
01:22may have contributed
01:24to our competitiveness declining
01:26with an impact on our growth,
01:28the impact on the number of jobs
01:29we may create in the future.
01:31So through that prism,
01:33it is important that we assess
01:35the regulations that we have
01:37and whether they are proportionate.
01:39But while I am convinced
01:42that an agreement between the EU and US
01:44is in the best interest of both,
01:46I certainly would take great care
01:48for a degree of deregulation
01:52being part of such an agreement.
01:54So when you say competitiveness,
01:56then what could it look like
01:58without lowering standards,
01:59without reducing what's in the DSA
02:02and the DMA?
02:03What could it potentially look like in theory?
02:06So I think there's a few strands
02:07for what it could look like.
02:09It could look like the efforts
02:10that we have in relation
02:12to the exchange of goods
02:14and the tariff levels for that
02:16and what the EU have outlined
02:18as zero for zero
02:20is a very ambitious,
02:21but I believe important recognition
02:23of the value of trade
02:24and how it could be driven further.
02:27It could also look like commitments
02:28that we would have
02:29to buy more from each other
02:31in particular areas.
02:33And it could also look at
02:35what we could do
02:36in terms of the mutual recognition
02:38of the standards
02:39that each other have.
02:41And while that is easily
02:42and better understood
02:43with regard to goods,
02:45it could play a role
02:45with regard to services.
02:47This is a relationship,
02:49as you know,
02:49that's worth billions of euros
02:51every single day.
02:53And any change at all,
02:55no matter how small,
02:56that eases with the flow
02:57of that exchange of goods
02:59and services on a daily basis,
03:01on an annual basis,
03:02could be worth a big improvement
03:03to both of us.
03:05We know that when the EU announced
03:06a couple of weeks ago
03:07its potential tariffs
03:09in the event
03:10that there's no negotiation led to,
03:13that digital services
03:14wasn't on that yet,
03:15but it potentially is on the table.
03:16Do you think that the reason
03:17why that's not there
03:19is because it's really
03:20a controversial part
03:21of the negotiations
03:22between the two sides?
03:23So I believe it is understood
03:25as a move
03:27that if it were to be applied
03:29could have larger spillover effects.
03:32It could at that point
03:34become difficult
03:34to look at
03:35what would be paths
03:36for further de-escalation.
03:38And it could make
03:39a trade relationship
03:42that which is obviously
03:44facing a very big challenge
03:45at the moment,
03:46face an even bigger one.
03:49Ireland and I
03:50have longstanding concerns
03:51regarding the role
03:53and use of digital services taxes.
03:55And my sense is
03:56that in the debate
03:57that is now taking place
03:58at the moment
03:59it is understood
04:00as an option
04:01but it's also understood
04:03as an option
04:04that could have
04:05very significant consequences.
04:08Indeed,
04:08but countries like Germany
04:09and France,
04:10particularly France,
04:11would push for something
04:11like that.
04:12And I think it's inevitable
04:14in a negotiation
04:15like this
04:16that it's taking place
04:17that different members
04:19of the European Union
04:20will have different views.
04:22That is, after all,
04:23I believe,
04:24our strength.
04:25And what we will do
04:26is listen to each other
04:27and find a balanced outcome
04:29regarding options
04:30that we may need
04:31to take now
04:32and other options
04:33that we might need
04:34to consider in the future.
04:35But I think it is fair to say
04:36that there are
04:37a group of countries
04:38within the European Union
04:39that would have
04:40significant concerns
04:42regarding the use of DSTs
04:44and the spillover effects
04:45that it could have
04:46on the trade negotiations
04:48and the health
04:49of the economic flows
04:50between the EU and US.
04:52We note that the EU
04:53is also saying
04:53that regardless
04:54of what is the outcome
04:55of the next negotiations,
04:57it needs to seek
04:58stronger association
05:00with other markets,
05:01whether it's Canada
05:01and so on.
05:02But do you see
05:03there might be a renewal
05:04of the EU-China relationship
05:06as part of this?
05:07We have acknowledged
05:09that China
05:10can be a partner
05:11in many areas,
05:13but we've also acknowledged
05:14that in other areas
05:16they do pose challenges.
05:18for the European Union
05:19and I think that it continues
05:20to be the right balance.
05:23It is absolutely inevitable
05:25as we look at
05:26the unfortunate trade tension
05:28that is taking place
05:29between the US
05:30and the European Union.
05:32The European Union
05:33will look at other ways
05:34in which it can generate
05:36and deepen trade.
05:37We'll do that twofold.
05:39Firstly,
05:39through our own single markets
05:41and our trade with each other.
05:42And secondly,
05:43looking elsewhere in the world
05:44and looking at deeper
05:45trading relationships
05:47that we can have there.
05:48I think it's important,
05:49however,
05:49to be realistic
05:50to say that
05:52new trading agreements
05:53for other parts of the world,
05:55at least in the short term,
05:57are incomparable
05:58to what we might be able
05:59to get out of the single markets.
06:00On the broader issue
06:02around trade
06:02with the EU
06:03and other countries
06:04trying to dash
06:05to not quite make up
06:07but in some ways
06:08get stronger trade links
06:09across the world,
06:10do you think
06:10that there's a fear
06:11that the issues
06:12around global warming,
06:14human rights
06:15and other elements
06:16that used to be
06:16part of the priorities
06:17of a trade deal,
06:18that they will just
06:19be eliminated
06:20in the demand
06:22for making up
06:23for what we're losing
06:23out at the moment?
06:24That risk is definitely there
06:26and it is part of how
06:29the EU
06:30needs to be agile
06:32in responding back
06:34to a world
06:34that has changed so much
06:36but we do have to
06:37stand by
06:39particular values
06:41and ways of engaging
06:42with the world
06:42that are important to us.
06:45I think it is likely
06:46in trade negotiations
06:47that will happen elsewhere
06:48that the reference
06:50that those particular issues
06:52would have got
06:52will,
06:53I fear,
06:54go down
06:55but in what we need
06:56to do here in the EU
06:57I certainly want
06:58to still ensure
07:00they have a high value
07:01and I believe
07:02we can do that
07:03and I believe
07:04we should do that.
07:05So just moving on
07:05to defence
07:06which obviously
07:06is the most important
07:08issue almost
07:09at the moment
07:09you very much
07:12supported common borrowing
07:13when it came to COVID
07:14because obviously
07:15you saw the impact
07:15it was having
07:16across Europe.
07:17Do you support the same
07:18for this existential crisis?
07:20Do you support
07:20common borrowing
07:21for defence?
07:22I think in the time ahead
07:24the most likely way
07:26in which
07:27further
07:28spending on defence
07:30will happen
07:30will be both
07:31at a national level
07:33in terms of the use
07:34of own national resources
07:36and then secondly
07:37in the new framework
07:38that the EU
07:39have brought forward
07:40where we would look
07:41at the use
07:42of the National Escape Clause
07:43where needed
07:44and we would also
07:45look at new forms
07:46of lending
07:47to each other
07:48to help
07:49would eat new
07:50forms of spending.
07:52So where's the trade-off?
07:53Because the defence spending
07:54has to go way up
07:55and does that mean
07:57you take it out of cap
07:59or where does it come from?
08:00Cohesion funding?
08:01So I think in the time ahead
08:02national defence spending
08:04will continue to be
08:05the larger component
08:07of how we respond back
08:09to Europe's security needs.
08:11I hope
08:12and I expect
08:13from the discussions
08:14that I can see happening
08:15that that will be happening
08:17in a more coordinated way
08:19that has happened
08:19in the past
08:20and I also think
08:22it's likely
08:23that progress
08:23will be made
08:24in areas of procurement.
08:26Therefore
08:26that means
08:27that if there is
08:28a defence dimension
08:29to the next MFF
08:31and the EU budget
08:32I still think
08:33it's likely
08:34to be smaller
08:35than the national
08:36contribution
08:37that members make
08:38to their own security
08:39and the security
08:40of the EU
08:41and therefore
08:42it is possible
08:43that the knock-on effect
08:44that it will have
08:45on other priorities
08:47within the EU budgets
08:48may be smaller
08:50than we think
08:51at the moment.
08:51But you know
08:52when you speak
08:52to any Prime Minister
08:53Foreign Affairs Minister
08:54Defence Minister
08:55across Europe
08:56they all say
08:56the same thing
08:57that this needs
08:57to be a unified
08:59European response
09:01to this existential threat
09:03that it actually
09:03has to be much bigger
09:04than what has been
09:05sort of offered
09:06in REARM
09:06and that it has to be
09:08European wide.
09:09It's difficult
09:11to have that debate
09:12and not divorce us
09:13from the broader reality
09:14that firstly
09:16we'll be negotiating
09:17a budget
09:17for the new European Union
09:19secondly
09:20next generation EU
09:21which is the new form
09:23of common borrowing
09:24that we have
09:25to deal with
09:26the crisis
09:28of a number of years ago
09:29of the pandemic
09:29that that is still happening
09:32and still being evaluated
09:33and that in relation
09:34to all of that
09:35both still has to issue
09:36and still has to be
09:37refinanced
09:38and dealt with
09:39at some point
09:40in the future
09:40all of those things
09:42are going to come together.
09:44What's your assessment
09:44of the fact that Europe
09:45really has to do this
09:46alone now
09:47because the US
09:48is telling Europe
09:49we were shifting
09:50the burden
09:50we're not sharing
09:51the burden
09:51we're shifting
09:52the burden
09:52of European security
09:54to the European continent
09:55alone?
09:55I think it applies
09:56that logic applies
09:58to so many elements
09:59now
10:00of the European Union
10:01which is why
10:02I made the point
10:03to you there
10:03Shona
10:04that we can't have
10:04the debate
10:05about defence
10:06and security
10:06as existential
10:08as it is
10:09but have that debate
10:11without reference
10:12to very other big things
10:14that are going to happen
10:14now with regard
10:15to the EU
10:16but a theme
10:17of what is now happening
10:18is the rules
10:19the institutions
10:20that were set up
10:21in the aftermath
10:22of World War II
10:23set up with American leadership
10:25they're now being challenged
10:27they're being contested
10:28the institutions
10:29that we know
10:30the rules
10:31in relation to trade
10:32and tax
10:32are all now
10:34open for
10:35renegotiation
10:36that is now
10:37what is happening
10:37Was Macron and Draghi
10:39right when they said
10:39Europe is mortal
10:41and it could die?
10:42All political order
10:43is mortal
10:44all political order
10:46if not capable
10:47of dying
10:48is capable
10:49of declining
10:49that is one of
10:50the many lessons
10:51that we have
10:52from the study
10:52of history
10:53the European Union
10:54is no different
10:55if you believe
10:56progress is inevitable
10:57you're on your way
10:59to seeing that
10:59progress decline
11:00Okay just finally
11:01you're coming up
11:03to the end
11:03of your second term
11:04as president
11:05of the Eurogroup
11:06you're running
11:06for a third term
11:08have other countries
11:09declared that they're
11:10going to run against you
11:12or what's the situation?
11:13So no formal declarations
11:15have happened yet
11:15but of course
11:16it's open to every country
11:17to decide
11:18do they want to
11:19put forward a candidate
11:20or how do they
11:21want to vote?
11:22I'm really encouraged
11:24by the level of support
11:25that I have
11:26at the moment
11:26but really
11:28all my focus
11:28is on completing
11:29my current mandate
11:31which takes me
11:31all up to July
11:32and then on the basis
11:34of my track record
11:35asking countries
11:36to continue to support
11:37me in that work
11:38and we've a few weeks
11:39to go before we get
11:40to that point
11:41and as we have
11:41just discussed
11:42an awful lot
11:43can happen in a number
11:44of weeks
11:44in the world
11:45that we're in
11:45but I am encouraged
11:47by the support
11:47I've currently received
11:48OK well Pascal Dunneau
11:50Finance Minister for Ireland
11:51and President of the Eurogroup
11:52thank you very much
11:53for joining us
11:53on the Europe Conversation
11:54Thank you Shona
11:55Thank you so much for joining us
11:57Thank you so much for joining us
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