00:00How are you, sir? I'm coming along. How about yourself? I'm very, very good. I want to jump
00:04in with what did you think the first time you heard Walk My Walk? Did you feel it sounded like
00:11your style? First heard it, I said, man, this right here has a lot of grit and it reminds me of
00:17my tone, but he doesn't sound like me. I can just tell that I inspired him. But it's like putting
00:25the two pieces together, knowing that somebody I mentored actually created him, then it all
00:31started making sense because people will actually hit me in my inbox and say, hey, man, there's
00:35this song that's going up the charts. And it seems like it could be number one soon. It
00:41has a little reminiscent feel of like how you approach songs. And, you know, that's how
00:47it all started. Did you think it was a good song? It was decent. It's certain things in
00:53it that I would have changed. And I felt like it didn't have a real human hand in it, like
00:58no real instrumentation. It was one big old loop. Just one, you know, one thing like somebody
01:08just, it didn't grow or anything. You kind of said earlier that it was created by someone
01:17that you had worked with. We don't know that for sure. Do you know that for sure? It seems
01:21like there's a path from Walk My Walk to Abraham Abushmay, who you worked with on your first
01:28album in 2019. But we're not 100% sure on the Connect the Dots. Are you? Have you heard
01:35from people that it's 100% his creation? I mean, I've heard that he actually has a hand
01:42in the app that created the AI artist. And he told me that he was working on something
01:50that was in the tech field. So I mean, two and two, allegedly, maybe, maybe not. But
01:57definitely, I've heard so many people say he was a part of like... Have you reached out
02:05to him? Yep. But I can't get in touch with him. His number didn't change. But we haven't
02:10talked in like maybe three years. Okay. So you haven't been able to have any kind of
02:14conversation with him about, about this. If you could reach him, what would you say to
02:19him? I would say dope. You did what you said you were going to do. It ain't no hard feelings.
02:25Yeah. I mean, I don't feel a way about it. I think people choose the path of success that
02:30they want to take. But you did tell the associate press, if someone is going to sing
02:34like me, it should be me. Definitely. If somebody going to sing close to me, it should definitely
02:42be me. And that's why I did a derivative and a cover of Walk My Walk. The derivative came
02:51out today. So it's a whole nother rewrite. I did my own trailer trap approach to it.
02:59Let's talk about the first version that you cut, which is an AI generated version.
03:06Did you, did you use, why did you decide to do that? And did you just go and take the stems
03:13and then, you know, sing over that? Or what made you decide to create your own version based
03:19on the AI technology? I use nothing from the original. I actually produced it all the way
03:26out, had about nine people hands in it. After I got done with it, my partner, Ray C mixed
03:33it. My, my, my good friend also, Kenny mixed, mastered it. So it was all hands on in that
03:41version. I just covered the lyrics word for word.
03:44And then with this new version that came out December 5th, you went in and you, you're
03:51calling it a derivative work. Can you talk about how that is different?
03:55This trailer trapped out 808 drums, the whole nine. It feels different. It makes you feel
04:04different. And I had my brother come in and write the verse with me and we put it all together
04:11and put the song together. So it's a whole nother melody, a whole nother breakdown, a whole nother
04:16arrangement. I played all the instruments that's on that. And I programmed the rest of the instruments
04:21on that. So I produced it also.
04:23So it's all human except for, I'm curious, who are you crediting as the songwriters? The original
04:32is credited with, uh, Aubier, Riviotto, Rivaldo, Taylor. Who are you crediting as the songwriters
04:40on your two versions? The first version is just a cover. So, I mean, that stands to what it is.
04:46The derivative is me and my brother will be claiming what we put into the song.
04:53AI has the rest of it. It's a very interesting thing.
04:57It is. It is. And you also did an AI generated video for the version that came out
05:05on December 5th. Why did you decide to go that route? And had you ever done an AI generated video
05:11before? I didn't feel like I wanted to put too much time into going to shoot a visual and, and
05:19putting so much energy into something that I'm just recreating and making my own derivative of it. So
05:26I didn't want to take my human counterparts and do a real photo shoot, do a real video, spend a real
05:33budget. It was easier and easier and much simpler to just use an AI generated program. That's why
05:41people are going to be creating all these AI songs because it's so simple to do. It doesn't take a gift
05:47to do it. No, it's, it's, uh, you know, some of these companies like Suno are saying they're releasing
05:55what 50 million versions, you know, songs, uh, AI created songs a week. I mean, it's really staggering.
06:03What it's crazy. Yeah. What do you think is the right mix for, uh, for an artist to use?
06:12Like, had you been using AI for any kind of song generation before? And if so, I've never used AI
06:20for a single thing, not even chat GPT. I haven't used them for anything, writing, anything, everything
06:25I do have been out of the, my own hands, my own mouth. Um, I just, I know that with those companies,
06:37they study artists like me and several other artists. So I feel like
06:43something has to be done. If anybody's getting paid on it, the artist should definitely get a cut of
06:48everything. Um, especially if you can prove it. Do you think you should get a cut of the original
06:54Walk My Walk? I have no clue. You know, that's, that's divine God's appointment. Whether he said,
07:02or whether, you know, somebody else said, um, for me, a program created that song,
07:09a program created that track, a program created those melodies. There was a human behind it. Um,
07:21but I've seen people work on those programs and it literally takes no gift to create something.
07:28Somebody came to me and say, I wrote this song using AI. And I instantly said, Hey,
07:33it could be nice all day, but I'm not taking an AI song. It, it just doesn't do it for me. Like,
07:42I like being in the studio with real conversations, conversing about what I've been through and seeing
07:47the gift come to life and unwrapping it, not voice generating. Hey, today I walked down the street,
07:53I kicked the can. It fell over. I saw a mice jump out of nowhere. And then Santa Claus came. And then all
08:00of a sudden he got a song. I just can't, I don't, I don't, it ain't my thing, but I'm not knocking
08:06people that it gives, uh, you know, some type of liberation to some people. It could be life
08:16changing for them. And I can't tell you how happy some people may be that never had an opportunity to
08:23create a song that actually have a gift. And they're going to use the tool to bring that gift alive. But I
08:30mean, again, it's still tricky territory. Do you have your own ethical value of where you draw the
08:38line? Like you said, you haven't used it. It doesn't other than in creating walk my walk. It
08:43doesn't sound like you're going to, do you have an ethical point of view? I feel like a lot of people
08:49are mad about the AI, especially the real creatives, but that's so many artists that I know don't even
08:55create. And then they call themselves mad at it when they've never spit a lyric out their mouth,
09:01but they get credit on songs and they don't even have a gift. They just could deliver it.
09:05Like, who are you to speak on any creative process? You are only the face. Um, so when I speak to people,
09:12when I speak, I'm speaking about real creatives, the people who actually like go in and do the grit work,
09:19come up with the melodies, come up with the production, come up with the sound, package it,
09:23put it all together. Um, it's a feel that I feel like it's just starting and it's going to get
09:32worse, but it's going to get better, but it's going to get worse for creators. Um,
09:39yeah. Again, talk about that. Yeah. Like, you know, producers, think about it. Think about how
09:45producers felt before this came when they used to actually go in and direct their music and write
09:53it on sound charts and write out the lyrics and write out the music and have it played, give the
09:59tempo. And when NPCs came about and you had to hit the buttons yourself, then all of a sudden you had
10:09other production tools come out where you could just go to splice and just get a sample and say you
10:16created some when you really didn't create it, you just picked up a loop and you were smart enough to
10:21make it into a record that became something. Um, that's the difference between the AI and that
10:30you don't need nothing to create some, at least with the sampling, you had to still hear something to
10:35bring it to life. You don't have to hear anything to use AI. All you got to do is plug in for words.
10:41Um, but I will say for me, I could care less how people create music. When I create music,
10:51it's because I got to get it out of my soul, off of my chest. For other people, it's about money.
10:58It's about making a dime, just like the industry. The industry is all about money,
11:03all about making a dime. They could care less about the artist. I've seen it. I've seen it come.
11:09I've seen it go. With Walk My Walk, you mentioned this in the Associated Press story. The static image
11:15used for breaking rust on the video is a white man with a bowed head and a cowboy hat and praying hands.
11:23kind of every country stereotype. How do you think that played into its success?
11:30Genius. And I'm not even saying
11:34genius. I really don't know how he was created. I'm just saying the programming is genius. Um,
11:40a white face and a soulful black sounding voice. Let's be clear. Um,
11:51definitely sold the record. If I was white, I would be way more successful. I've been told by
11:58high up people. I've never named it or named them, but I've been told that the only reason
12:04I haven't moved forward in my career with the gift that I have and the impact that my gift have on
12:09people is because I'm black and this came from white people. So you kind of do the numbers. Um,
12:17you do the math and it, it all, it all makes sense. If you think about it, the three biggest songs
12:24and the three most viral and most impactful songs that have come out of Nashville, out of country music
12:29outside of Nashville, period, have been all three black men. Think about that.
12:36Myself, Shabuza and Lil Nas X, we have not been out streamed, particularly with each of our biggest
12:42breakthrough songs. It hasn't been done. Certified, worldwide, global. It's been three black men that
12:48have led all of that fan driven music. So it should be that country music is saying, hey, there's an
12:57appetite for this. Let's definitely make this a part of our program, but we, we're not getting that.
13:02So I can't not to knock anything Shabuza is doing, but until you break that wall, there's really no
13:10change. It's just somebody black that's new and successful and being great. I feel like we all great,
13:16but, um, can we get past to the next point? Thanks, Wonko. Merry Christmas. Thank you. Happy holiday. Bye.
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