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Twisted Sisters: Madness & Manslaughter - Season 1 Episode 2
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00:003-3, go ahead.
00:07They are now all on the hard shoulder on the northbound.
00:10The collision itself took place in lane 3 at the southbound.
00:15So they were trying to get back across the carriage where they've been struck.
00:21I'm not a doctor. She has been knocked down by...
00:22Is she the one that speaks English, or the other one?
00:24Yes. The other one, she's gonna run...
00:26Oh, no! Shit!
00:30Oh, Jesus!
00:32Swedish twins Sabina and Ursula Eriksson were causing mayhem on the motorway.
00:37Can you even see all my organs, you pet?
00:40They were on some kind of suicidal mission.
00:45Help! Help!
00:48At this point, nobody could have predicted the events that were gonna unfold.
00:52What started as a horrific incident, then led to the brutal stabbing of an innocent man.
01:04Why would she stab him?
01:05All I know is he was trying to help her.
01:10They said she was suffering from folio d'oe, which I've never heard of.
01:14Folio d'oe is a very rare psychiatric condition.
01:18A French term meaning the madness of two, it's almost as if you would consider it being contagious.
01:26How would you kill us? How can someone catch a mental illness of somebody?
01:31On social media, you have people posting their own theories.
01:38And various colourful opinions about what happened took on a life of their own.
01:44I'll tell you what I thought. I thought it was drugs.
01:46Basically a theory that they were lab raps.
01:48One of the officers described her as having inhuman strength.
01:51Senior officers to the scene, we've got two possible fatals.
01:54After the incident on the M6 where they were running into oncoming traffic and causing mayhem on the motorway.
02:21Sabina Erickson was convicted and sentenced to one day in custody, which she'd already served.
02:34So she was released from the magistrate's court and sent on her way.
02:39After Sabina was released from the court house, she was seen wandering the streets of Fenton.
02:51Sabina bumps into Glenn Hollinshead and Peter Malloy, who had been drinking at the Royal Oak pub.
03:01As time to go home, I started walking up Chrysler Street and as we were walking up there was a woman.
03:13She stuck out like a sore thumb in the middle of the street, wearing this big bubble jacket with all her stuff in a plastic bag.
03:27She seemed a little distressed, lost, certainly not very focused.
03:34We started a conversation.
03:36My sister was in hospital and she was trying to find her.
03:40And she said, I need to find a bed and breakfast.
03:45And Glenn said, there's nothing around here for you to stay at.
03:50Come back to mine.
03:52We'll have a bite to eat and then try to locate your sister.
03:55We'll find you somewhere to stay.
03:57I can see how somebody with an outside lens looking in on this might think, what on earth would they do that for?
04:11But Stoke-on-Trent's not a big city.
04:14It is a place of working class people largely, people who take pride in being friendly and approachable and welcoming to everyone.
04:27Glenn, I suppose, was a rebel of the family, but in a nice way.
04:34We grew up in the Air Force as a group of five boys, brothers.
04:42We were very close-knit.
04:44Glenn followed in my father's footsteps.
04:48He joined the Air Force.
04:50He was a medic when he left.
04:54And I went to join Mitchell in making tyres in Stoke-on-Trent.
05:01When he settled in Stoke, it wasn't far from where I live.
05:05He was coming round all the time.
05:07He helped out with my mum.
05:09Yusuf fascinated my mother by telling her stories, you know, history stories and stuff.
05:14She could sit there all day listening.
05:16Spent a lot of time together.
05:17We'd come up the house.
05:18We'd have meals.
05:19He loved cooking curry.
05:21It was really hot.
05:24We used to meet up and take the dogs out.
05:28He had a real soft spot.
05:32He would do anything for you.
05:34If he had ten pence and it was his last, he'd give it to you.
05:38It was really good that way.
05:41And if he saw anybody who needed help, he would offer help.
05:45Glenn offered Sabina a place to stay for the night, fed her, made sure she was comfortable and looked after her.
06:00But when they were in the house together, her behaviour was a little alarming.
06:06She seemed quite open and warm.
06:11But then, in the quiet moments, she was getting quite paranoid.
06:16Then pulling the curtains to one side.
06:19And looking out.
06:21And then quickly just snatching them back.
06:24I responded a little bit unsettled by this.
06:27I'm looking at Glenn for reassurance.
06:29And he's like, it's all right, it's all right.
06:31Sabina, she'd had a pretty traumatic few days.
06:36She'd been injured on a motorway.
06:39She'd spent time in a police cell.
06:41She'd seen her sister cast off in an air ambulance.
06:45And she was in a strange country.
06:48These are sorts of events which can only feed into somebody's existing paranoia.
06:55If that paranoia is already there.
06:58There was this growing fear inside of me thinking, who is this woman?
07:02She's hiding from someone.
07:06She gets out his cigarettes and she offers them around to myself and Glenn.
07:10We take one and just as we were about to light up.
07:15She just snatches them quite furiously.
07:18And says, they might be poisoned, you can't have them.
07:21I was taken by by that.
07:23Like, what?
07:24Your cigarettes are poisoned?
07:25And this was a pack of cigarettes that she'd been smoking from all night.
07:30This is beyond weird now.
07:32Something's not right about this woman.
07:34Glenn was, he was quite relaxed and comfortable with it.
07:38I think he was just dismissing it off as quirky.
07:42I personally just wanted to get out of that situation.
07:47As quickly and as calmly as possible.
07:52Peter was clearly suspicious of Sabina's behaviour and left the house.
07:58But Glenn was helping her.
08:02And Sabina stayed the night.
08:05In 2008, I was working at the Royal Infirmary in Stoke.
08:17In the A&E department as a nursing assistant.
08:20Which is why Glenn rang me and told me that he's got this Swedish woman at his.
08:27And told me, you know, she's got nowhere to go.
08:30So I'd better stay here.
08:32And she's got a sister who's in the hospital.
08:35Her had been a car accident.
08:38When I rang Glenn back, I said,
08:40I've found out that she's been admitted, been operated on.
08:45And that's all they can tell me.
08:48And that's what I told Glenn.
08:50And I said, if you want to lift up there, I'll give you a lift up there.
08:57When he come back and he said, no, she doesn't want to go.
09:00I said, oh, okay.
09:02Well, if you change your mind, let me know.
09:05But I'll give you a lift up.
09:07And that was that.
09:12If I had known the story about the M6, like an award clip.
09:17That what she's told you isn't what happened.
09:24Oh, Jesus.
09:25Yeah, I could have warned him.
09:27Time goes three, three.
09:29She's very dangerous.
09:30Careful.
09:31After Sabina stayed the night in Glenn's home, people in the local area saw Sabina and saw Glenn in the house or through the window.
09:58And at one point, Glenn gave one of them a thumbs up.
10:04Sabina asked Glenn for a cup of tea.
10:07He was caught, sure, because he didn't have any tea to give her.
10:10So he went to a neighbour to see if he could borrow a tea bag.
10:15I think I went to flash for some tea bags.
10:18And I said to him, when I finish washing the van, I'll get you some.
10:21Glenn was just trying to make a cup of tea for Sabina.
10:29That's when everything kicked off.
10:32Neither Glenn or Sabina ever got to drink their cups of tea.
10:35It turns out that Glenn had gone inside the house after speaking with his neighbour.
10:43And using his kitchen knife, Sabina attacked Glenn, stabbed him three times in the chest.
10:52And one time in the throat.
10:57And she stabbed me, she stabbed me.
11:00And they said, yeah, look after me dog.
11:03I said, I'm just coming now.
11:05I said, yeah, I'll look after your dog for you.
11:07Sabina fled the scene at the house and was acting in a very erratic manner.
11:17She had somehow got hold of a hammer.
11:20The good Samaritan stopped and tried to help her.
11:24Well, as we were pulling up to the exit onto the roundabout,
11:27I just glanced and saw a woman in the corner of my eye.
11:30I looked again and saw her smashing herself on the head with a hammer.
11:37I just felt a sickening feeling in my stomach.
11:40And I do remember seeing lots of blood on her head and it was proper tunnel vision.
11:46And I was just completely like zoned in on the hammer.
11:49Just put my hands straight on the hammer and lowered it.
11:52She hit me on the back of the head with something.
11:56The last thing I saw was her run across the roundabout.
12:00The road followed by two paramedics.
12:04The paramedics from Staffordshire Ambulance Service had been called to a stabbing incident.
12:09And the crew, as they were going on route, came across an individual who had been hitting her head with a hammer.
12:16Quite concerned about her safety.
12:19The ambulance stopped to try and help.
12:22Paramedics saw Sabina as she then made her way to a high row bridge nearby.
12:31She's got nowhere to go.
12:33So instead of handing herself in, Sabina jumps from the bridge onto the road.
12:38The paramedics who were going to the stabbing are now dealing with the scene on the A-50.
12:47And when I approached the incident, I was quite surprised it was actually the same lady that we'd attended to on the motorway.
12:57She jumped a distance from approximately 30 foot onto a hard road surface.
13:11She appeared to have sustained a head injury and also an injury to a leg.
13:19When I approached her, she was actually conscious, but she was quite aggressive, abusive, shouting and screaming.
13:25Very similar to her presentation when I'd come across her on the motorway.
13:32I did an initial assessment of Sabina, determined there was no obvious life-threatening injuries.
13:38The paramedic crew that were on scene were obviously managing her.
13:41And then I was aware of a stabbing incident in the locality.
13:46So I left the scene.
13:48As I approached the scene, there were a number of police officers there.
13:59One of the police officers waved me down and advised me to stop.
14:05And I was basically told that life was extinct.
14:09This was now a crime scene.
14:16I was working at the daily newspaper in Stoke at that time, the Sentinel.
14:21And I found out there'd been a stabbing in Duke Street.
14:29So I travelled to the scene to speak to some neighbours and get some more information about what happened.
14:37They told me Glenn came out of the house severely injured.
14:44He had been stabbed.
14:45He told his neighbour he had been stabbed.
14:47She stabbed me, she stabbed me.
14:50And then the other guy went, that was it.
14:54I'd seen nobody die before.
15:00It was a very brutal stabbing of an innocent man in his home.
15:05The day after I'd spoken to Glenn, I went up to the corner shop to get a packet of cigarettes.
15:21On the counter was the Sentinel newspaper.
15:24And I looked and I thought, I recognise that picture.
15:26That's Glenn's house.
15:27It was cordoned off.
15:28And I thought, what's going on here?
15:29And I don't think I even bothered reading it.
15:30So I went back to my car, drove down there, parked up.
15:32And the policeman says, oi, you can't park there.
15:33You'll have to move that car.
15:34You'll have to move that car.
15:35I said, well, your brother lives here.
15:36All right.
15:37Yeah.
15:38Can you just stay here?
15:39I'll get someone to come and talk to you.
15:40I waited and waited.
15:41No one was coming.
15:42No one was coming.
15:43No one was coming.
15:44And I thought, what's going on here?
15:45And I thought, what's going on here?
15:46I don't think I even bothered reading it.
15:47So I went back to my car.
15:48You'll have to move that car.
15:50I said, well, your brother lives here.
15:53All right.
15:54Here.
15:55Can you just stay here?
15:58I'll get someone to come and talk to you.
16:00I waited and waited.
16:01No one was coming.
16:03And eventually, they came up to the house.
16:07I had to inform the rest of the family.
16:10It's hard to say to somebody, your brother's dead.
16:15And it still gets to be there.
16:28Still find it hard to talk about.
16:30After I finished work, I was asked by my wife, in an urgent way, to phone Paul, my brother.
16:55He just told me that Glen had died.
17:00And then, obviously, it opens up a whole barrage of questions.
17:06Trying to piece the whole thing together in your mind is pretty difficult.
17:12But my whole focus was being concerned with my mother.
17:16I couldn't tell her.
17:17I had to get my neighbour to tell her.
17:19I couldn't get the words out.
17:21She couldn't take it in.
17:23You know, she couldn't believe it.
17:26My mum, she just kept saying,
17:29What?
17:30Glen's dead?
17:31And I thought, sorry, I'm getting upset now.
17:35Still got to get over that they couldn't bother to inform us.
17:41So I thought the first thing the police did in a thing like that is inform the family.
17:48And to read it in the papers wasn't very nice at all.
17:54In the immediate aftermath of the stabbing, it was a very confusing picture.
18:03We were trying to piece together.
18:06It's a shocking moment when you realise the relationship between the M6 and the stabbing and the A50.
18:14What's going to happen to you, do you?
18:17Fucking hell!
18:18Calm down, calm down, calm down, calm down.
18:21After she jumped onto the A50, she was transported to the emergency department to Royal Stoke University Hospital.
18:28With a head injury and quite significant leg injuries, she appeared to have sustained an ankle fracture.
18:35While Sabine Erickson was in hospital, she was arrested for the murder of Glen Hollinshead.
18:46In 2008, I was instructed by the Staffordshire branch of the Crown Prosecution Center.
19:04to prosecute Sabine Erickson for the murder of Glen Hollinshead.
19:14After Sabine jumped off the bridge, she remained in hospital until the 11th of September of 2008,
19:23receiving treatment for her serious leg injuries and a wound to the abdomen.
19:33And the doctor who examined her formed the view that the wound had been caused by a sharp object such as a knife.
19:43So this raised the possibility that Sabine had been stabbed.
19:50The question then was, by whom?
19:55Was it by Glen Hollinshead?
19:58Glen tended to be a little bit rebellious.
20:05I would say he did not like authority.
20:10He was always looking for direction.
20:13He tended not to have a clear purpose in life.
20:16He was focused on drinking.
20:18He used to drink a lot, he always has.
20:20At one point he did lose his way.
20:26So I don't know what it was with his smoking.
20:31You know, he was asking to borrow money and stuff like that.
20:35And I got to the point where I said, I can't do this anymore.
20:38End off, you know.
20:40And then he went on a methadone program.
20:46Now I used to say to Glen, be careful who you play with.
20:51Because he had some characters in his life that I wouldn't have entertained.
20:56But that was his nature.
20:58It was irrefutable that Sabine Erickson's hand had held the knife with which Glen Hollinshead had been stabbed.
21:16But did she act in self-defense?
21:19What was her state of mind at the time that the stabbing took place?
21:25The defense indicated that they would instruct a psychiatrist to examine Sabine Erickson.
21:37They said she was suffering from poliodermal.
21:41And apparently it's a condition where you can catch a mental illness of somebody.
21:46You know, how can someone catch a mental illness?
21:50In the days and weeks leading up to the trial, I looked through all the evidence.
22:07And one of the extraordinary features of the case was in relation to the incident on the M6.
22:15Here was an example of quite extraordinarily bizarre behavior
22:24by Sabina and Ursula Eriksson.
22:30I recognize you. I know you're not real.
22:32Stay still for me. Stay still because you're hurt.
22:35Come on, calm down.
22:36I'm not for you.
22:36I'm not for you.
22:38I'm not for you.
22:41Understandably, there were suspicions that the twins had been high on drugs
22:48or under the influence of something.
22:51Yeah, of course, yeah.
22:54Jesus Christ.
22:55I watched her go under her.
22:57Oh, dear.
22:57The arty?
22:58Yeah, she ran off from us.
23:01They're both high.
23:04Yeah, very.
23:05The other one's just fought us.
23:07Both Sabina and Ursula provided blood samples.
23:14And in both their cases, the samples were negative
23:17for the presence of drugs, both lawful and unlawful,
23:23and for alcohol.
23:26There's going to be a big investigation about this.
23:28Where are you from?
23:30Are they Irish?
23:31Swedish.
23:32Swedish?
23:33Stop it.
23:36You're a fucking asshole.
23:38Calm down.
23:38Fucking bitch, you are.
23:40I'm going to make sure I don't want to guess what's work.
23:43Fuck you, guys.
23:44I'm going to get around there.
23:45Fuck you.
23:46Fuck out.
23:50Three days later, Sabina jumped from the parapet of the A50.
23:57Again, she was negative for drugs and alcohol.
24:02Her behavior was bizarre.
24:05So it was inevitable Sabina Erickson's mental state at the time of the killing might well
24:15be an issue in the case.
24:18In 2009, I was instructed as a consultant psychiatrist to prepare a forensic psychiatric report.
24:46in the case of Sabina Erickson.
24:50Do you suffer any mental health problems or from depression?
24:54No, sir, I don't.
24:55Have you ever tried to harm yourself?
24:57No, sir, not every day.
24:59I don't think we had a good idea.
25:00I don't think we had a good idea.
25:01I don't think we had a good idea.
25:02I don't think we had a good idea.
25:03I don't think we had a good idea.
25:04The defense expert felt Sabina was in fact suffering from a serious mental health issue.
25:11And that Sabina Erickson's behavior was due to the presence and the influence of her sister.
25:21And their diagnosis was folia due, a French term meaning the madness of two.
25:32Folia due is a very rare psychiatric condition.
25:37Typically, it happens when the two people involved spend quite a considerable time together and
25:43are highly isolated.
25:44One person would have what we call the primary diagnosis of a true mental illness and then
25:53because of their intimacy, they could convince that other person to think just as they were
26:01thinking.
26:02It's almost as if you would consider it being contagious.
26:05In the case of these sisters, there was an indication that Ursula was the primary patient.
26:16Folia due seemed to be a very convenient diagnosis of what was going on between Sabina and her
26:23sister.
26:24No, I don't believe there's any woo-woo type mysticism where one girl is transferring her
26:32thoughts to another girl, even though twins are very close.
26:35Just please check out how we need to please read the last sister.
26:39I'll ask the subject.
26:40Okay, no problem.
26:41All right.
26:42There's now quite a lot of evidence which shows that folia due does happen because it's
26:51been recorded.
26:53It's possible for two people to share the same deletion, but it's extremely rare.
26:58And that's what makes this case very interesting.
27:01There were two diagnoses, one by each of the medical experts.
27:09I wanted to meet with Ms. Erickson.
27:13I'm curious to know what was happening in the weeks, days, hours, and even in the minutes
27:21leading up to the event.
27:24Because prior to meeting with her sister, there was no evidence of any previous issue with
27:32mental health.
27:33conversations with people who grew up with the twins in Sweden have revealed what their
27:52childhoods were like.
27:54The twins grew up with an older brother and sister.
28:02their father's disabled with only one arm and had problems with alcohol.
28:07Their mother was believed to have challenges of her own.
28:11The children were generally left to their own devices.
28:18School friends remember Ursula having a cleft palate but disfigured and scarred her entire
28:23face from the forehead down.
28:25And was bullied for her disfigurement.
28:28The twins had an extremely close relationship with each other, but didn't spend time with
28:33other friends.
28:35Sabina and Ursula decided they would have a better life if they left Sweden.
28:43There are so many unanswered questions around this case.
28:50When they arrived in Liverpool, they spoke to police to raise some concerns about the safety
28:55of Sabina's sons.
28:58Police, we understand at that stage, actually made contact with her partner back in court.
29:05And discovered that he was concerned for Sabina's whereabouts for her safety.
29:11And there was nothing to cause alarm with their two sons.
29:16But why did they travel to Liverpool?
29:19Why were they so worried about Sabina's children's safety back in Ireland?
29:26When they stopped at Cale's services, why would they not put their bags back in the hold
29:35of the coach?
29:40Why were they both trying to run in front of traffic on the M6?
29:45Mike Alfa, we need the lot here now.
29:48Stay there.
29:50It's okay.
29:51It looks like...
29:52I see your breathing.
29:54What was causing this extreme behaviour?
29:59And indeed, the day after, the questions continued.
30:05It's inevitable when people are interested in something, their minds try and piece together
30:14the confusion of it all.
30:17In today's podcast, we are going to delve deep into the story and the crimes of sisters
30:22Ursula and Sabina Erickson.
30:25Oh my God, this case, it's giving me a headache.
30:27I think the case of Sabina and Ursula Erickson has captured people's imagination in part because
30:32of the lack of official information that's available to the public.
30:35And where information is missing, conspiracy theorists will rush in.
30:39Once the news coverage of this story caught the interest of social media, it just snowballed.
30:47And various colourful opinions about what happened took on a life of their own.
30:52So let's quickly talk about some theories, shall we?
30:55I'll tell you what I thought.
30:56I thought it was drugs.
30:57Conspiracy theories suggest Sabina and Ursula had either taken or been given PCP.
31:02It is an illegal drug that can cause hallucinations, paranoia and the belief that one has superhuman strength.
31:09Often, PCP is laced in cigarettes.
31:12So this theory definitely seemed plausible because it could explain why Sabina was concerned about Glenn and Peter smoking her cigarettes.
31:19However, PCP is one of the drugs the police test for.
31:23So this isn't something that would have been missed during their examination.
31:28The 20 ISU guy said they're on a coach.
31:30Whether they've just come in, we don't know, but they're very protective of the bags.
31:33They wouldn't let the coach drive, put them down below.
31:35And he says, with the way they're acting, could they be mewling?
31:39There was also a theory that the twins were drug smugglers.
31:42The reason for this theory is just the way that they were kind of acting with their bags on the coach,
31:47how they were like clutching them and just acting really weird.
31:50And the twins had multiple mobile phones with them that could support the fact that they were drug smugglers.
31:56There were no drugs found in their system.
31:58And no drugs or drug paraphernalia found in their bags.
32:03There are theories out there, but we can't prove any of this.
32:08It is purely speculation.
32:10What on earth happened in Glen Hollenshead's house?
32:26I made an appointment to meet with Miss Erickson.
32:30I felt that I did not have enough information to do a comprehensive diagnosis.
32:43Prior to what had happened to Mr. Hollenshead, it seemed that she was having persecutory delusions.
32:53Hearing voices, thoughts that she was in danger.
32:59And this was made clear to her by Ursula.
33:04And that is when she was convinced that they needed to seek refuge.
33:09Apparently, they were walking down Central Asian kissing.
33:19They considered escaping together one way or the other like a pact.
33:25What was said to me by Miss Erickson was that they were both convinced that they had to act in this way.
33:37And that by dying together, that would be one way of escaping whatever perceived danger that they had imagined.
33:47After the incident, it appeared that Sabina continued suffering from a paranoid delusion thinking that someone is out to harm her.
34:10When Mr. Hollenshead went out to speak to his neighbor.
34:17It is possible that she might have felt they were plotting in some way.
34:25If she was having persecutory delusions, it would give her a sense of fear.
34:32A feeling that she needed to escape to protect herself and also to protect her sister.
34:41I was able to understand more about what her life was like.
34:49Sabina and her sister Ursula, they led a fairly frugal existence in Sweden.
35:00And there was some insinuation of difficulties within the household.
35:10Although there was no overt sign of mental health difficulties.
35:16So Sabina and Ursula both had a shared traumatic childhood.
35:24We know now that people who've had some type of adverse experience.
35:28Particularly some kind of trauma in their childhood.
35:31Are much more likely than other people to develop a form of severe mental illness.
35:37Some form of psychosis or another.
35:39There were two diagnoses.
35:46The defense believed that it was polyadure.
35:51But in my opinion, she was suffering from acute polymorphic psychotic disorder.
35:58Where the person's mind simply takes leave of reality.
36:07It could have lasted days.
36:09And the presence and influence of her sister was more the final straw.
36:17That caused her to have a psychotic break.
36:20In the end, it did not matter who made what diagnosis.
36:27The important thing was whether we felt that she was operating under the influence of a mental disorder.
36:35At the time of the incident, the conclusions of both experts were the same.
36:43Dr. McDaniel's report was only available at lunchtime on the day that the trial was due to commence.
37:00We discovered that she too had come to the conclusion that Sabina's responsibility was substantially diminished by her mental state at the time of the killing.
37:14We would accept the plea only if any suggestion of self-defense was abandoned.
37:23Right, stay with me.
37:25I can't see any reason why Glen would stab her.
37:30I don't think he's going to make someone a cup of tea and then just turn around and stab them.
37:34If Glen had seen Sabina trying to harm herself in any way, he would try to prevent it.
37:43It's how he is. He wouldn't just stand there and watch.
37:46Calm down.
37:48What do you think?
37:49Calm down.
37:50Sabina, for whatever reason, was quite happy to place herself at serious risk of harm.
37:57And when anybody tried to stop her, she was prepared to resist violently.
38:03Watch it, guys. Watch it down.
38:05Legs down. Legs down.
38:06It seemed to me that the overwhelmingly probable inference was that Sabina was in the process of using the knife to injure herself.
38:19When Glen Hollingshead came back into his house, that he tried to stop her and that she took possession of the knife and stabbed him.
38:34The defence considered their position overnight.
38:51There were various court hearings. Most of them seemed to be adjourned.
38:55We'll see. It's been a long time coming, but we'll see what happens.
39:00And then, finally, there was the trial. We were there as brothers, waiting to see what was going to happen.
39:07Sabina's change of plea made headlines, and I remember it being reported prominently on BBC News.
39:16Tonight, a Swedish woman who ran into the path of oncoming traffic on the M6 motorway and later killed a man has pleaded guilty to manslaughter.
39:24The judge's sentence had been at her five years, minus the time she had served on remand.
39:37I was disappointed with the sentence that was passed down, but I didn't think it would bring Glen back, no matter how long she'd gone in prison.
39:50In my eyes, it should have been preventable. After what she'd gone through on the M6, being knocked unconscious, then waking up and fighting with police people,
40:16trying to run into other traffic on the other side of the M6.
40:20Now, to me, that is not normal behaviour.
40:23And there was a mention of 136, under the Mental Health Act.
40:31Well, 136 if she is.
40:34Well, she needs to be, if nothing else, for going on the carriageway and for her own safety.
40:39One of the policemen that was there said that she should be sectioned.
40:44They could have kept her under observation, they could have brought in psychologists, psychiatrists.
40:50I don't hold Sabina responsible, although she physically was responsible for my brother's death.
40:56I think that the police are far more culpable.
41:00Sabina, I don't have any malice against.
41:05In the case of Miss Erickson, she showed intermittent signs of psychosis.
41:17Sabrina, come and sit in the car.
41:19There were times when she acted bizarrely, and there were times when she acted normally.
41:25What job are you doing over there?
41:27Oh, I just found a crappy job.
41:30But because of the fluctuating nature of the illness, then things sort of slipped through the net.
41:37The police had no way of telling exactly what was going to happen next.
41:50I think in the moment they probably thought they were doing the right thing by Sabina.
41:56But there are lessons to be learned from this.
42:01I think the world has to be learned from this.
42:30I think the world has moved on in terms of our understanding of mental health conditions and our awareness of it.
42:43We need to foster a better understanding of what these disorders are.
42:49And the fact that there's not two species of people, the sane and the insane.
42:55But that we're all to some extent on that spectrum.
42:59And the earlier we can intervene, the sooner we can get to people who are developing psychotic symptoms, then the more likely we are to be able to prevent the tragic deaths of people like Glenn Hollinshead.
43:16My mother was never the same. Glenn, I think, was the apple of her eye. It broke her heart. And she ended up falling apart.
43:26I still picture him laughing and joking with me. Yeah, I miss him. Oh God, do I ever. I miss him.
43:38I miss him. Yeah.
43:50ORGAN PLAYS
44:20ORGAN PLAYS
44:50In tonight's programme, please go to
44:52Channel 5.com slash helplines
44:54for information and support.
44:56Is the long-lost daughter
44:58really who she said she is?
45:00Kim Marsh stars in The Impostor
45:02for our new drama starting next Monday at 9.
45:05Next tonight, Police Interceptors.
45:07We'll see you next time.
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