00:00Let's turn to something a little bit different now and focus on France and its efforts to redefine itself and its foreign policy with French-speaking nations.
00:09To illustrate this point, President Emmanuel Macron has spoken for the first time over the phone with Madagascar's new military-backed leader, Colonel Michael Randriana-Rena,
00:18pledging France's support during the island nation's political transition.
00:22Amidst Gen Z-led protests and economic unrest, Macron urged youth and civil society inclusion, backing reforms, anti-corruption measures and timely elections in the former French colony.
00:33Let's take a look.
00:37They have not met yet, but French President Emmanuel Macron is already seeking to position himself vis-à-vis the new authorities in Madagascar.
00:46According to the Élysée Palace, during his telephone conversation with his Malghazi counterpart on Saturday,
00:52he welcomed the announcement of a national consultation process, a series of reforms and the organisations of elections within a reasonable time frame.
01:01The French head of state then offered his country's support.
01:05France wishes to accompany and support the transition underway in accordance with the aspirations expressed by the Malghazi people, particularly young people.
01:12The French president also announced the payment of budgetary aid earmarked, in particular for food security, in the country.
01:18The French president had already made a promise of support a week earlier during his visit to Mauritius.
01:25The coup has reignited resentment against France, Madagascar's former colonial occupier.
01:31The exfiltration of former President Ange Rajouel by Paris has outraged many citizens of the island.
01:36On the ground, members of the Malghazi civil society have criticised the direction taken by the transition.
01:43According to them, there are worrying signs of continuity with the bad practices of the past.
01:49Well, tonight I'm joined on set by Eleanor Carroix, France's minister for global partnerships and francophonic countries to go over all of this.
01:58And Eleanor, I believe you were with Emmanuel Macron on his recent visits across Africa, as well as Latin America.
02:05A really crucial moment for France, and now we hear of Macron reaching out to the new Malghazi regime.
02:13In terms of France's position on Madagascar, do they recognise this new administration?
02:19And how is Macron aiming to at least appease to these Generation Z protesters and say that France is on your side?
02:26Well, France is indeed talking to these generations and to civil societies in Madagascar.
02:32We have a very large French community, and I am also the minister in charge of French people living abroad.
02:38So it was of the utmost importance to ensure that they were safe and secured and that they were also accompanied during the process.
02:46And when the refoundation government took place, was installed, our ambassador went and met with this new power in place.
02:57And I actually met with a new minister for development in Rwanda during the ministerial summit for the francophonie.
03:06And yesterday, President Macron spoke, as you said, with a new president of the Reef Foundation.
03:11And he actually showed and expressed the support of France in achieving a transition so that new elections can take place rapidly,
03:21so that youth and civil societies are involved in this transition and in this process, which is very important for France.
03:28And we're also contributing to the security and the development of Madagascar.
03:35We are already present with several projects, but we're also willing to give more funding in particular for food insecurity in the south of the country
03:44and also for medical assistance in the capital.
03:48And this is also something that was discussed.
03:50Coming away from those talks, are you under the impression that those words will be taken into account and that we can expect elections soon?
03:56Well, I do certainly hope so.
03:58And from the various discussions at different levels that we've had, there seems to be an intention for this process to be normalized and elections to take place rapidly.
04:09And in any event, you were mentioning before this willingness of France to be able to speak to people, to civil society,
04:17and also to see that their legitimate concerns are addressed.
04:21And this is true in Madagascar, but it's also true in other parts of the world.
04:25And I think it really is what drives us in the discussions that we have in a context that can sometimes be a bit unpredictable.
04:34But France is often blamed as a former colonial power for being responsible for what's led to the problems in a lot of these francophonic countries,
04:42namely, I'm looking at Guinea-Bissau recently with the coup.
04:45How does France get these countries back on side, especially in such political turmoil?
04:52Well, again, as you see, there's been several coups in different countries and several uncertainties.
04:59And the situations, again, are of concern for my ministry, first and foremost, in terms of security for the French people that live in those countries.
05:07So the first thing we do is we ensure that they're safe, that they are also, that the situation is under control,
05:13or that we can safely evacuate them when this is needed, which is not the case in Guinea,
05:18because from what I understand, the situation has now returned to a calm.
05:23But the idea is really to be able to talk to the leaders, to talk to the youth,
05:28to ensure that the legitimate claims are heard and are taken into account.
05:34We don't do any sort of entrance into politics, and we do see that there's been a lot of instability.
05:41But what we do want to keep is a real solid bound, in particular with the youth.
05:46In terms of Guinea-Bissau, again, the same question.
05:51Do you recognize this new government?
05:53Well, it's really recent for Guinea-Bissau.
05:55At Madagascar, we've had several weeks to see how the situation was evolving,
06:00and also the guarantees that the refundation government was given.
06:03For Guinea-Bissau, we've seen, as you, what happened on Friday, I guess it was,
06:08and ensured that French people are safe, and the French school was able to have their kids go back to their houses,
06:16the French also cultural centre.
06:19And for the time being, we're waiting to see how the situation unfolds,
06:23to be able to have a clearer position.
06:27What is the point where it unfolds, too, that you can actually give a defined position?
06:30I guess it really depends on the country, and it depends on the situation.
06:34And when situations are evolving all the time, it is very difficult to say or to give you some sort of formula.
06:40But what we do see is that we don't do any sort of endurance,
06:43but we do ensure that institutions, democratic processes are taking care.
06:50And as we said, these are, for some of them, it's not necessarily the case for the last one we mentioned,
06:56but for some of those countries, those are countries that are part of instances of discussion,
07:02multilateral instances.
07:03And we also ensure that new governments participate and also abide by the values that are also the drivers of those instances.
07:13But there has to be a red line drawn in terms of democracy.
07:17How does France ensure that that process carries on without interfering and overriding a country's sovereignty?
07:24As you said, it is a very difficult fine line to define,
07:27and this is why we don't do any sort of endurance, but we do ensure that guarantees are given.
07:32And we also try as much as possible to keep the dialogue and to see how these legitimate claims and expectations are factored in.
07:44So, again, I don't have one formula to give you that would apply to any change of regime
07:50that has taken place over the past months or years, in particular in Africa.
07:55We've seen different of these difficult and unstable situations.
07:59But I guess what is important, and in particular from the Francophonie perspective and from the OIF,
08:04the Organization of the Francophonie, is to see that the changes in governments and in regimes
08:10do end up with governments that do abide by the values that we all stand for.
08:16And this includes, of course, democracy and gender equality, and I can give you a few others.
08:22Would you put Gabon's new government under Brice Oligingema under that?
08:26Or how do you actually respond to claims from the new authorities saying France must stay in its place?
08:34Well, actually, you know, President Macron was in Gabon recently, and the visit was very productive and fruitful.
08:41And our cooperation, in particular our economic cooperation with the Transgabonais,
08:45which is the trains that goes from one side to the other in the country
08:48and that goes to the manganese mines that are actually being exploited by French companies,
08:54is an example of how we can continue to work, how we can actually improve our relationships,
08:59how transitions actually lead to more stable relationships.
09:03And it was actually a very productive and positive discussion that our leaders had at that time in Gabon.
09:09So, as I said, it is very difficult to give you one example that would apply to all.
09:13There's no one-fit-all solution.
09:17But there is a clear interest in continuing to discuss and to maintain this conversation.
09:24And this is also what we're going to do at the Africa Forward Forum.
09:27In Nairobi and Kenya next year.
09:28Exactly.
09:29And the idea is, of course, for the Leaders Summit to have all the leaders that, of course, come from democratic countries
09:37and are also shared the same values and are willing to have a broad discussion.
09:43But even for those countries where you've had changes in regime,
09:46the idea is to be able to include civil society, businesses, academia, scientists,
09:51so that we have a broader discussion with all of the African continent
09:55and to show that our relationship with Africa looks forward, not backwards.
10:00I'd love to talk more about France's position with using Anglophone countries like Kenya
10:05to further its aims and agendas and also looking at the vacuum created by its leadership
10:11and what that means for the West versus the influence of China, Russia and others.
10:17But, unfortunately, we have to draw a line under that.
10:20Thank you so much, as always, Eleonore Carro.
10:22Joining us here on France 24, discussing France on the global stage.
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