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00:00France's president's second day of an official visit to Indonesia, Emmanuel Macron signing a preliminary defense pact, most notably, that could lead to the sale of more Rafale fighter jets.
00:15The French president speaking with university students. He got a very warm welcome in the capital, Jakarta.
00:22Now, it's not just about defense and cultural ties. At the heart of it all, there's also precious minerals and memorandums of understanding that were signed in that regard.
00:36Brian Quinn has more.
00:39On Indonesia's Halmahera Island, pristine jungles that stood untouched for centuries now give way to vast swaths of clear-cut strip mines.
00:49It's the world's largest nickel concession, and for members of the indigenous Hongana-Manyawa tribe, a catastrophe.
00:59I'm worried if they keep destroying the forest, our source of food will be gone. We have no idea how to survive without our home and food.
01:08Territory once abundant for hunting and gathering is now ravaged. Rivers once relied on for fish and fresh water now choked with mud and tailings.
01:19It used to be safe to drink from this river. There was no pollution like this. The water was very clean. But now, just see for yourself how bad it is.
01:28This is the price of the clean energy transition. Electric vehicles require powerful batteries, which require nickel.
01:37Indonesia is the world's top producer, with the largest known reserves.
01:42Halmahera is home to Weta Bay Industrial Park, where nickel mined on the island is processed.
01:47In 2020, Indonesia banned the export of nickel ore, processing onshore instead to preserve its share of the value chain.
01:56Since then, the workforce here has more than doubled to roughly 30,000 people, bringing not just deforestation, but also new diseases, poaching, and conflict.
02:07Indigenous land rights are enshrined in Indonesia's constitution, and a 2013 court ruling should have given local tribes more control over their traditional territories.
02:17But with mining now making up nearly 9% of the country's GDP, NGOs say such laws are poorly enforced.
02:26Turning the area into a mining concession to boost the economy has not solved problems, but rather added new ones.
02:33If the government keeps using economic arguments to justify marginalizing the Honggana-Manyawa community, that's a violation of human rights.
02:43Honggana-Manyawa means people of the forest, but with no official titles to the land.
02:49Many fear that the concession, which its owners hope to expand, will leave the tribe with no forest in which to live.
02:57And for more, we're joined by Jafar Suryo-Mengogogolo, researcher at the Southeast Asia Centre Think Tank.
03:05Thanks for being with us here on France.
03:06Thank you. Great to be here.
03:07This question of nickel, of precious minerals, it's become so big in this bilateral relation.
03:17Yes, it is, because it's, well, as we know, it's part of the supply chain failure now.
03:23France need to secure it for the productions of the EV, and everybody needs that.
03:29And not only France, but it's more importantly in France, because to secure independence of resources.
03:35Before we used to, the French used to rely on New Caledonia, and now it's no longer enough.
03:42Well, it's not enough. The production in Indonesia is jumping up since 2014, and the ban also.
03:49So really, at the point, at this moment, it's dominated by the Chinese companies, and France actually was involved in the investment also there.
03:59So in the context of strategic autonomy, which is the so-called strategy of France, they really need to have it.
04:09So it's interesting. This is the second leg of Emmanuel Macron's Southeast Asia visit.
04:16He was first in Vietnam. He'll finish with Singapore.
04:19Yes.
04:20Indonesia, you could argue that this is, even though Vietnam is that China plus one huge manufacturing hub,
04:29that this is actually more important for France.
04:32Prabowo Subianto is going to be the guest of honor at the Bastille Day Parade in Paris.
04:40There have already been orders for French fighter jets.
04:45There's the possibility with this preliminary defense pact that was signed, that there'll be more orders in the pipeline.
04:53But it's about more than arms sales. It's also about a strategic partnership?
04:57Yes, of course. It's just beyond geopolitical issues. Of course, it's also business issues.
05:04We see already the report about nickel. But beyond that, there's also issues about Danone investments, total energy investments.
05:15So it's not only about geopolitical, just like what you say, but also business issues that bring along.
05:22So this is important visits.
05:24We can listen now to French President Emmanuel Macron speaking about those defense contracts.
05:38To serve this vision, this partnership of sovereignty and balance, we have in recent years strengthened an unprecedented bond in defense and security.
05:49And I'm pleased that the letter of intent signed today can open up further development with new orders for Rafales, Scorpens and light frigates,
05:59as well as consolidated joint exercises, joint training and closer cooperation between our armed forces.
06:07Jafar Suryo Mengolo, is Indonesia in the same boat as Vietnam having to balance its relationships, relationship with China, relationship with the United States and relationship with France, which also is a player in the Indo-Pacific?
06:22Well, it is part of the so-called Asian way.
06:26So it's not only Vietnam and Indonesia, but also Thailand, Malaysia, Cambodia.
06:32We have to make our own ways between these two superpowers, China and USA.
06:40Last week, Prime Minister of Anwar Ibrahim of Malaysia already proposed ASEAN should have a common voice within this U.S. tariff debate.
06:55And the agreement, the consensus that reached out, I think, two days ago, that ASEAN will go together and will not hurt each other in the negotiation with the U.S.
07:07So it's not only about Vietnam and Indonesia, but also other countries in ASEAN.
07:12Will not hurt each other.
07:14What does that mean?
07:15Well, when you're negotiating with U.S., then you will also sometimes sacrifice your neighbors.
07:22That kind of thing happens.
07:23Yes, but part of the agreement, you will not do that.
07:27So if Indonesia negotiating with the U.S., it shouldn't hurt Thailand.
07:33It shouldn't hurt Malaysia.
07:35It shouldn't hurt Vietnam.
07:37So that's the agreement together.
07:39And it was already reached out yesterday, two days ago.
07:42And they're sticking to that?
07:43They are sticking to that.
07:44Okay.
07:45And that is a good way, I think.
07:46Because at a summit, it's easy to say.
07:48No, I think it's already an agreement, already signed.
07:53So they cannot just run away from that.
07:56So it's a good way to deal with the U.S., actually.
07:58So we see those exuberant images there with that university visit by Emmanuel Macron.
08:04How is Emmanuel Macron received more broadly by Indonesians?
08:07What do they make of him?
08:08Well, France, I have a positive image in Indonesia, actually.
08:13And much more positive than the U.S. recently, of course.
08:17And it's very good that the president spent 90 minutes, more than 90 minutes, with young people in Indonesia.
08:26The questions, as you said, are pre-prepared when he does those Q&As with the students.
08:29Well, it's common, too.
08:31The thing is, 30% of Indonesian population is young populations.
08:35So he needs to deal with these young people.
08:38And this is the future of Indonesia.
08:40So it's good that, actually, the president invites more students, Indonesian students, to France.
08:49At the current rate, it's only 1,000 students, Indonesian students in France, actually.
08:53It's very small.
08:54Indonesian students in China, 15,000 people.
08:57So 15 more than what they have in France.
09:02So in that way, France needs to, well, double up, triple up Indonesian students.
09:09Did he make any promises?
09:10Because we're later talking about foreign students in the United States in the France 24 debate.
09:14Did Emmanuel Macron make promises in that regard to the Indonesians?
09:18Not specifically, practically, numbers.
09:21But everybody knows they need to double up, triple up.
09:24Part of the, I think, part of the, I think part of the, a keep of the president, part of the delegations is the director of CNRS, the research center of France.
09:35And he acknowledged that's only, at the moment, among the staff, only five Indonesian researchers in France.
09:43And that is very small compared even with Vietnam.
09:46So considering the size, considering the youth of Indonesia, France needs to take more of this.
09:53In the tabloids, they're still talking about Slapgate, that little incident that was caught on camera between the French president and his first lady when he arrived in Vietnam.
10:04Is that over and forgotten by this point in the trip?
10:08Or did Indonesians talk about it too?
10:10No, we didn't talk about it so far.
10:12Because when he arrived in Jakarta, we already saw his very arranged clip that the wife and the president are happily and in arms.
10:25So that is a good point, actually.
10:28Okay.
10:28Well, on that happy note, then, we'll finish.
10:31It is.
10:31Jafar, Suyo, Mengolo, thank you so much for being with us here on France.
10:34Thank you so much.
10:36Stay with us.
10:36There's much more to come, more news, plus today's business and in sports.
10:40We'll go to Selina Sykes, who is at the French Open Tennis Tournament.