- 13 hours ago
'Stranger Things' creator Mark and Ross Duffer break down the scene from Season 5 of their hit show where Karen Wheeler and her daughter Holly hide in the bathtub while the demogorgon attacks their home. The Duffer Brothers provide an explanation of their choice of music, intricate details added through special effects, execution of the challenging stunts, and so much more.
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00:00We wanted a camera here, but that's a line cross.
00:03Anyone who goes to film school understand this.
00:05I don't know what that is.
00:06That's a camera, that's a camera, that's a camera, that's a person, that's a person.
00:10No one even needs to go to film school now because they've seen this drawing.
00:14I'm going to try it again.
00:15So this is a person.
00:16Hey, I'm Matt.
00:17And I'm Ross.
00:18We are, I guess, collectively the Duffer Brothers, and this is Notes on a Scene for Stranger Things.
00:30There's a lot of great home invasion movies that we looked at specifically for this sequence alone.
00:38Home Alone, Lost Boys, Poltergeist here.
00:43For a sequence like this, geography always plays a big part if you look at what Spielberg did in Jurassic Park.
00:49If you even look at what Chris Columbus did in Home Alone or David Fincher did in Panic Room,
00:54you have to really establish, even before the home invasion comes,
00:58you want to establish the space and the geography and you want the characters and the audience to both understand that.
01:05So as we're moving the camera around, as in our case, the monster, the invader is coming,
01:09we want to really understand the space really well.
01:22Fernando was not written into the, wasn't written into the script.
01:26We tried a bunch of different songs here.
01:29I believe this was a suggestion from Nora, who's our music supervisor.
01:33And we played a bunch of different songs over here.
01:35And what we really liked about this was just the juxtaposition of,
01:39it played, it's just the last song that you'd be expecting to play when a monster's attacking,
01:44but it's definitely a song that you believe that a drunk Karen would be listening to as she got into the bathtub.
01:50And also, it's like, it hasn't been overused.
01:51So like, we try to avoid songs that have been overused and, and, and TV, you don't want to be, to be too obvious.
01:57And I thought, I would say this particular shot, you know, where they're watching the wall and you're just hearing the sound.
02:02I mean, that's based on Shyamalan's signs.
02:05There's that great scene where they're just listening to the aliens.
02:08You don't see the aliens, but you know, they're on the other side of the walls.
02:10We always thought that was, you know, a really effective suspense sequence.
02:14So it was a big reference for us here.
02:16Oftentimes the songs are, are written into the script.
02:20Um, like Running Out of the Hill was written in the script.
02:23It's actually kind of unusual that we're figuring out in post-production.
02:26But the main thing that we try to do is we just don't want to put a cool needle drop because you can put a cool needle drop.
02:33You want it always to come from character.
02:34So you always have to start from the point of what is Max listening to?
02:38What would she be listening to?
02:39You kind of build out a playlist for her.
02:41Karen, what would she be listening to?
02:43You build out a playlist for her.
02:44And then you see kind of what will also work cinematically.
02:48So you're working off character and you're working on rhythm, pace and mood.
02:51So all that leads into the choice in the song.
02:58What's your location?
02:59Over.
03:00Picket, five minutes away.
03:02You're way ahead of us.
03:03Radio as soon as you're there.
03:04I will.
03:05Nancy, be careful.
03:07Hold on.
03:14Everything in the end of the night.
03:19The stars will never know.
03:23This Demogorgon.
03:24Now, season one, we had a guy named Mark in a suit.
03:27Obviously, you know, for this season, we needed him to do more, our monsters to be able to do more and maneuver more around.
03:35So this is, it's still based on that same design, but this is Weta that is doing these effects.
03:41But really what we have is just, we have someone with a ball on a stick here and they just do this.
03:49So the camera operator can know where to frame for them, can frame for the camera.
03:53And it's always taller than you would think.
03:55So we'll just take out measuring and we'll just try to get it as close as we can to make sure that we're framing properly for the Demogorgon.
04:01But it's always jarring on the day because you're just looking at a, you're just looking at a tennis ball.
04:06It's not particularly scary.
04:07So the way that we, we did this is this, this frame that you're seeing here.
04:37This tub was not inside that bedroom.
04:43So this, this was a separate, how would you even describe that?
04:47It was up on a platform.
04:48It was obviously filled with water.
04:51This is not fake CG water.
04:53This is real water.
04:55And, and Nell and Cara practiced a long time just in sort of how to hold them breath, how to hold their breath in a way that, that looked cool.
05:02We talked about eyes open, eyes closed, and we all collectively decided that this looked, this looked the best.
05:09But we essentially stitched the two shots together.
05:13All of this, I don't even know how to draw like this, but all of this is a separate, is a separate set on the, on the floor.
05:18Yeah, it's the bathroom.
05:19It's the bathroom.
05:20So we shot the move and we try to, and we had to get the timing just right.
05:25Our camera just had to get the timing just right and sort of memorize what the actual speed was.
05:31And then we did the same thing with Cara and Nell in a tub on a separate part of the stage on a raised platform.
05:38And then on the day we would, we stitched the shots together to make sure that the speed and timing worked.
05:45And I think some of these, we had to add some bubbles and stuff to help sort of smooth out this, this transition line.
05:52But hopefully when you watch it now, it looks like it's just one continuous shot and that that bathtub is in fact in this bathroom, which it is absolutely not.
06:08This heel, we really wanted him to smash Karen's heel here.
06:15This is not a real shoe.
06:18This is completely CG.
06:19Yeah, but when she picked this out, I think that shot is not in there anymore where she kicks them off.
06:24But we fell in love with this ridiculous slipper.
06:28I mean, it wasn't super expensive to build a CG crushable heel, but there was a lot of, do we really need this?
06:35And we said, absolutely.
06:36I think it was worth it.
06:37I hope.
06:38Yeah, I was, I think it was worth these two seconds.
06:49Karen!
06:57Heavens to Betsy.
07:00Karen!
07:03Everything all right?
07:07I don't, hopefully you can't tell.
07:13I don't know why I'm pointing out mistakes.
07:15Oh no, maybe you can't, maybe you can't see there.
07:17You'll, you'll see the faucet here.
07:19Um, is not, not, I don't know what that drawing is, but it's not there.
07:24I guess this is the water.
07:26Um, it's not there because for safety reasons, I'm going to, could have possibly slammed.
07:30Yeah, so it's a CG faucet.
07:32Is this CG in the next shot?
07:33Yeah.
07:34Yeah, it's CG.
07:35Yeah, no faucet.
07:38So this is, this is all CG because we have, they had to keep popping out and, and they had to protect their head.
07:44Now this shot is, it seemed simple, but it was deceptively hard because sometimes they would just pop out in their hair.
07:51Like, you can't have, it's like very comedic if they're covered in bubbles.
07:54Like if there's a, there's a crown of bubbles on their head, which happened a lot of times.
07:58It's like, it really takes you out of the horror of the scene.
08:00Um, but again, uh, Kara and, uh, Nell, it's so much fun.
08:04But they delivered, they delivered it every time.
08:06And again, Nell's doing a good job of pretending like she has soap in her eyes, but she does not because this is not soap.
08:12It's fake bubbles.
08:13We don't know what it is.
08:18Holly!
08:20Oh, holy smokes.
08:25Oh, God.
08:27Stay back.
08:28Hey, Matt!
08:29Matt!
08:30Actually, this shot was a nightmare, um, which was Ted going through the wall.
08:41I mean, it was one of those stunts gone wrong.
08:43Nobody was hurt.
08:44He just, um, I think we tried it three or four different times and each time, uh, the stuntman didn't go through the wall.
08:53He just hit the wall.
08:54We kept scoring it to make it thinner and thinner, but it was, we needed to get him over the bed and,
09:00and then onto the floor.
09:01Otherwise, the shots, it didn't look very exciting.
09:05Um, even though I'm sure it was exciting for the stunt guy.
09:08Um, so we had to keep scoring it more and more until it was like very flimsy, uh, at the end of the day.
09:14And then we, uh, uh, finally on, I think, take three.
09:18You're, bad memory.
09:19I mean, that's actually, no, no, no.
09:21We had, we had to abandon ship.
09:24We did abandon, yeah.
09:25We didn't shoot.
09:27Oh, you're talking about take three many months later?
09:29Yeah, yeah, yeah.
09:30I'm sorry.
09:31Um, see, conflict resolution on display.
09:35They had to rework and rebuild the whole wall.
09:38Yeah.
09:38And then we came back like six months later and shot it.
09:41And I think at that point, the wall was built properly and it worked, worked perfectly.
09:46And we were all extremely relieved.
09:49Uh, Joe Crest.
09:50Um, this is, this is a stunt guy made to look up, look like Joe Crest.
09:55So until we, if we go forward.
09:59Not Joe Crest.
10:00Still not Joe Crest.
10:01Keep going.
10:02We had three cameras.
10:02Three cameras, so I will say, yeah, so we had a camera, uh, well, keep going.
10:12We just had to back it up though.
10:14Like, so I think, so the two, the bedroom, these are actually bedrooms.
10:18I'm just going to draw on here.
10:19You'll be blown away by my drawing.
10:22Um, so it was like this.
10:24And obviously we were, we were firing him through this wall this way.
10:29And we had a camera here and we had a camera, kind of an overhead camera here.
10:37And then we had a camera.
10:40We had a camera here, right?
10:42Wait, back it up.
10:43I don't even understand your drawing to be perfectly honest.
10:46I don't even know what I'm looking at.
10:47We had an overhead and we had this.
10:49Yes.
10:49We wanted a camera here, but that's a line cross.
10:52Anyone who goes to film school understand this.
10:54I don't know what that is.
10:55That's a camera.
10:56That's a camera.
10:57That's a camera.
10:57That's a person.
10:58That's a person.
10:59No, no one even needs to go to film school now because they've seen this drawing.
11:03I'm going to try it again.
11:04So this is a person.
11:06This is a person.
11:07Yeah.
11:08The bar was low.
11:09If our careers go down, you can teach at film school.
11:11Yeah, that's great.
11:12So this is not Kara.
11:31This is a stunt double.
11:33And what we're particularly proud of is this is an old school filmmaking trick.
11:38Whereas the shot, if you, can we rewind a little bit?
11:43This is Kara.
11:44So it's a single shot and the camera's panning.
11:47And as it's panning and we're going with Nell.
11:50We leave Kara behind.
11:51We leave Kara.
11:52We lose sight of her.
11:53And there's a stunt double hiding.
11:55And that behind that wall there.
11:56You can kind of see Kara there sort of duck out of the way if you're really paying attention.
12:00And then she ducks out of the way.
12:02And then our stunt double ran in.
12:04And she just, and then she slammed.
12:06So it's a single shot, two different actors playing, playing Kara in a matter of five seconds.
12:12And this is, I'll save you from having to go to film school.
12:14This is called a Texas switch.
12:17Though I don't know why.
12:18I can't remember.
12:19I definitely learned at some point, Google it.
12:23Something like this one, you can just do it like old school in camera without a cut.
12:27It just, no one's going to notice.
12:29I mean, now they will because I guess we talked about it.
12:31But no one's going to notice and, but it is going to leave, leave a little bit more, make it just feel more real and, and, and dramatic.
12:39You know, before this, Holly has been in the show.
12:49But really a small role, she's really, this is the first time she's taking center stage.
12:53And so we try to spend a lot of that first episode allowing the audience to really get to know her and care for her.
13:01So once you put her in a scary, dangerous situation, you're really worried about what's going to happen to her.
13:08It really reminded us of Millie season one.
13:10It's just, there's an understanding.
13:12She's such an understanding of where the camera is, how to play to the camera.
13:16And then like a sequence like this, the way she was acting.
13:19Yes, sometimes off screen, she's joking around and having a lot of fun and being a little kid.
13:24But the minute you're like about to roll, she started, I just remember watching her because this is one of the earlier things that we shot with now.
13:31And she was just hyping herself up.
13:33She'd be jumping up and down, doing jumping jacks.
13:35Push-ups.
13:36Push-ups, just doing everything she could just get in the moment.
13:39And the minute you called action, she was just in it.
13:49This is, she had half a wine bottle here.
13:52So she's not breaking anything here.
13:54So she just kept swatting it against, pretending there was a second, I'm going to do an awesome drawing here.
14:00Oh, dude, this is going to look inappropriate.
14:02Anyway, it was like half a wine bottle and the other path was breaking.
14:09But I think Kara throughout the seasons, part of the way she sort of justified that Karen was oblivious that, you know, in season one, there's a young girl, Levin, living in her basement.
14:21And later that all these supernatural goings, things are going on.
14:25And one way that she convinced herself that Karen would be unaware of this is that Karen is always, in almost every scene, at least a little bit drunk.
14:35And so as we were devising this Wheeler House attack, we thought it would be really fun.
14:39And Kara agreed that she's not sober in the moment.
14:44And what then made it more fun is like, what would her weapon of choice be?
14:47And then we realized, but there's also this wine bottle, which may be less realistic in terms of how deadly it would be.
14:54But it felt appropriate that Karen would weaponize her alcoholism against this beast.
15:02So when we came up with that, we thought it was too fun not to do.
15:05And Kara luckily agreed.
15:08So sometimes alcoholism can pay off.
15:10I guess so.
15:13Stay away from my daughter.
15:20Oh, no!
15:20Oh, no!
15:21Oh, no!
15:24It's inside.
15:35I see it.
15:36Get ready.
15:52Nancy, what's going on?
15:53Talk to me.
15:53What's happening?
15:56Nancy!
16:01Stay away from my daughter.
16:07Oh!
16:08Oh!
16:08Oh!
16:08Oh!
16:08Oh!
16:08Oh!
16:09Oh!
16:10Oh!
16:11Oh!
16:12Oh!
16:13Oh!
16:14Oh!
16:15Oh!
16:16Oh!
16:17Oh!
16:18Oh!
16:19Oh!
16:20Oh!
16:21Oh!
16:22Oh!
16:23Oh!
16:24Oh!
16:25Oh!
16:26Oh!
16:27Oh!
16:28Oh!
16:29Oh!
16:30Oh!
16:31Oh!
16:32Oh!
16:33Oh!
16:34Oh!
16:35Oh!
16:36Oh!
16:37Oh!
16:38Oh!
16:39Oh!
16:40Oh!
16:41Oh!
16:42Oh!
16:43like you wanted to feel what nancy felt like in that moment you wanted the audience to be with
16:48nancy and the horror when she sees uh karen like this so it's a little unorthodox but it wasn't
16:56this was it was scripted this way i remember netflix was like huh and i was like are you sure
17:00this is gonna work we're like yeah yeah so i'm hopefully it does it works it does but we use so
17:07we use um you know we switch over to sort of transition we do a couple things in order to do
17:12what we're doing with the time the shifting of time is we're going into slow motion i think with 72 frames
17:19as natalia who plays nancy comes in the room to really get into get into her head and then when
17:26we're going back in time we're using sound to really communicate that this is a sort of a
17:31suspended moment where we're going back so we played around with taking all the music and almost
17:44all the sound out and just playing it with a dial tone and that finally when we did that we're like
17:49now i feel like i'm in nancy's head and it feels as horrific to the audience as it does yeah there's
17:55something there was something disturbing about the violence occurring over uh with very little sound
18:00and just that just that that awful awful dial tone
18:22this is all prosthetics by the way our makeup team is incredible not enhanced at all by special effects
18:29it was just a debate of how far we could go because she's actually not dead here but she's on the
18:35right on the right on the line of of death um maybe looking at it now we went we may have gone a little
18:42far we may have we may have pushed it some some doctor will weigh in online and let us know whether
18:49this is actually a survivable i think they're gonna say not well i just this is this is what concerns me
18:55here yeah how deep the neck we did take some blood off in the moment but um you know it's effective
19:02i think but i don't blame you for thinking she's dead because she certainly looks dead
19:10initially it was sort of a love letter to yeah the films that we grew up um watching and also our
19:16childhood and as we've been working on it for 10 years it's become
19:21um kind of grown into its own thing i mean there have been so many people involved aside from us
19:26from our other writers to the actors and and it's just become become its own thing and then so really
19:34this season is just about uh goodbye to this story and these characters and and hawkins and and so on
19:43obviously we there's still a lot of films that um we pull from i mean we are we are film nerds but it's
19:51it's more if anything talking about the rest of the seasons and the in the shows and these characters
19:57yeah in some ways it's a love letter as well to this journey we've had making this show we didn't really
20:03realize it until we're reading the final script with our cast but when we did they were talking
20:08about how much um this the scenes in the story reflected how they were feeling as the show came
20:13to an end and their own experiences so i mean it wasn't really intentional but there is something
20:18uh a little meta in that it is it is a reflection on on this journey that we've all been through and
20:23we've obviously seen our younger cast grow into adults and i think that that's ultimately what the
20:29heart of the story is it's coming of age so it is about the characters but it's also about
20:33the actors and the journey that we've all been on i love how you're talking about something
20:37very emotional over this image of disgusting image of karen
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