00:00Hi, this is Mariah Gullow from The Hollywood Reporter and we're in studio today with Chloe
00:08Grace Moretz. Hello. Hi, how are you? I'm doing very well, thank you for having me. Thank you
00:12for coming in. Of course. Okay, The Mis-Education of Cameron Post. This is a movie that I feel like
00:19is very important to you. Tell me what attracted you to this role. Sure, yeah, well, I'll start
00:25off with the fact that, so about two years ago now, I took a year and a half off to sit back and
00:31to kind of reconfigure my career. You know, I've been working since I was five years old, so it's
00:37been 15 years now. And so for me, it was really a second to figure out what this next iteration was
00:43going to be and how I could really put my fingerprint on my career. And activism, being an activist has
00:51always been a massive part of my life, but I found that being able to partner my activism with my art
00:57was what I wanted to keep doing and make movies that are socially aware and progressive and, you
01:03know, are kind of still entertaining and exciting and funny and attainable to big audiences. And this
01:11film was all those things wrapped into one. You know, not only was it funny, strangely funny, but it
01:19taught me so much about what conversion therapy is. And I was surprised about how much I did learn
01:23going into it because, you know, I have two gay brothers in my family. So we've been a part of the LGBT
01:28community forever. But I was even unaware of the modernity of the issue and the prevalence of it in
01:34America currently. Did you know anything about the gay conversion therapy camps before? I knew about the
01:40idea of praying the gay away because we're from a very Christian Baptist southern small town in Georgia.
01:47And so the idea of praying the gay away, that's something that, like, we were always aware of
01:52that. I was unaware that there were actual camps like this that fully, you know, they take the
02:00kids away. Right. For months of time. Yeah. The first time I heard about it was when Mike Pence
02:06came on the political scene. Yes. Yeah. And has avid, like, complete support for conversion therapy,
02:15which is jarring. Right. And scary. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and tell me a little bit about what you learned
02:22from gay conversion therapy because I found it interesting that they kind of run, uh, it's a
02:28program. They run it almost like a 12-step program. Exactly. Well, they really liken it to that of being
02:34an alcoholic. And they even, one of the lines in the movie is, you wouldn't throw a parade for
02:38alcoholics. Which is like, well, no, but this is, this is not the equivalent. I mean, some might say
02:46that would be St. Patrick's Day, but go on. Listen, there, there is, that is, listen, that is very true.
02:54That was funny. Um, yeah, completely. So the, the way they treat it is they, they try and give you
03:00tools to overcome your same-sex attraction is what they call it, your SSA. And that was just a very
03:05interesting form of psycho manipulation. Yeah. And the way that they go about that is they, they
03:10really, they pull your labels and they try and figure out what moments in your life or in your
03:16childhood got you to the point now where you're now making the decision to be gay and to act on,
03:22on these, I guess, emotional situations that you went through when you were younger. And this is how
03:29you're reacting is what they try to say about it. Um, and, and I guess that for me was an interesting
03:36to try and portray in the therapy scenes because it's very insidious form of manipulation. It's
03:45very quiet. And the way that it's prose to you, everyone would be like, well, yeah, of course,
03:52I don't want to like go to hell and, and, and die in a fiery inferno. And the way that they, it just
03:59seems very simple. Yeah. Um, but it's completely incorrect what they're trying to teach, obviously.
04:05Yeah. It seems like it's very effective because what they do is they give kids a, uh, an identity,
04:13they give kids an identity, kids who are struggling with their identity. So they're saying, oh,
04:18you're like this. And then it's like, oh, I, I, there's a label for it. I know it's almost
04:24scientific. Exactly. Right. But in the meantime, what this movie shows is that all of these kids
04:30are coming together for the first time and they get to talk to each other. Exactly. And it really
04:35focuses on those interpersonal relationships of being a gay kid and meeting other gay people for
04:39the first time and realizing that, oh, you're not the only gay person. Cause most of these kids,
04:43all of them really in their communities, they were the only one. And to go to this camp where
04:48you're all being shoved in rooms together and doing group therapy sessions together, you realize,
04:53well, if I feel this way, you know, this way and you feel that way, and we're all going through
04:56these things and maybe that's not all bad. Maybe it's not all, you know, untrue. And also these kids
05:03are having their first sexual experiences, you know, with the same sex at this camp where they're
05:09supposed to be getting rid of their same sex attraction. So it's, it's very, it's very
05:13hypocritical. It's like, I don't know what you guys are trying to do there, but it feels like
05:18you're missing the mark. So since the movies come out, what kind of reaction have you received from
05:24fans, other kids? It's been really wonderful. There's been a really overwhelming response from
05:32especially young, young gay kids about just being represented adequately on screen. And I think that
05:37speaks highly to our director, Desiree Akhavan, who is a gay, Iranian American woman. And so her
05:44life, you know, she's, she's dealt with different obstacles. And the fact that this, this story
05:49doesn't focus on the obstacles at hand, which is the conversion therapy really focuses on the
05:54relationships and the, the, you know, the, the, the strange, awkward ages, and it really focuses
06:01on that side of it. It speaks highly to Desiree and what a brilliant director and writer she is.
06:06Hmm. What, what else did you learn from Desiree?
06:09So much, you know, she really, I guess the easiest way to boil it down, and this is kind
06:15of the, the way I, I like to sum it up because it, it speaks to her as a director and her as
06:19a human, but the way that the sex scenes are shot in the movie and the way that they're,
06:24they're used in the storytelling and how, of course, first of all, they're, they're, each
06:29one is incredibly integral. They're pertinent to the story and they, they really show the,
06:34the depth of relationship between my character and Coley and how it wasn't just a fling.
06:38It wasn't just a fluke. It was something that was a very long-term relationship where they
06:43had been doing this consistently. Um, but really it comes down to how she filmed it.
06:48And so I've been doing sex scenes since I was 15, 16. My first one was all 16. And this
06:53was the first time ever in my career where I didn't sit down at a table with a bunch of
06:59people and have us break down exactly what shots we needed, what faces, what sounds, what
07:05moments we needed to get and like break down this sex scene into a bullet points of exactly
07:10what happened to happen. She just looked at me and she looked at Quinn, the other girl,
07:15and she was like, I'm pretty sure you guys can do this. Pretty sure you guys know what
07:18you need to do. Like the one thing we had to accomplish was to get me to unbutton the card
07:23again with one hand. So I was like the only thing we practiced. Just some mechanics, literally
07:27just some mechanics. And then otherwise she was like, I'm going to make everyone disappear.
07:30And she made every crew member completely disappear, hiding in different areas. And it was just me,
07:36the other girl and Ashley Connor, our DP. And that speaks to how Desi finds so much confidence
07:42in the people that she casts and that she works with from the top down, from her actors to her
07:47grips, to her DP, to her head of wardrobe, her hair and makeup team. Everyone she knows that she hired
07:53them to do their job and she doesn't micromanage them. And that's something that, you know, I've worked
07:57for 15 years. I've done a little over 60 films. And it was the first time that that level of confidence
08:05was given to everyone and respect. And she's a true conductor in that sense. You know, a conductor's
08:11not going to go down and play the lead violinist's violin because they can't do it. They're the
08:15conductor. But they know that they can make everyone come together perfectly and harmoniously.
08:21Do you think that's, not to be reductive, but do you think that's kind of a female
08:26trait when working with a female director?
08:28Definitely. I mean, that's the only, I think, I mean, that, that, you know, yeah, a hundred
08:34percent. There's an amount of safety there where they, they feel completely aware and she's
08:43completely aware and confident in who she is. And so she doesn't have to try and question
08:48you because she knows that you're going to, you're going to show up and do, do what she
08:52knew you were always going to be able to do. And that hasn't happened in the past, you
08:58know? So for me, it's like, yeah, a hundred percent.
09:02Do you think from now on you're going to look carefully at the, your future roles, uh, and
09:08look for things that kind of challenge gender norms?
09:11A hundred percent. Following this movie, I went on to do Suspiria, which is a story that,
09:17that really, you know, it's incredibly empowering story, but it is a cast of all women.
09:22All women. There's only two guys in the movie and they're, are in it for maybe a half a
09:28second. Cause even Lutz Ebersdorf is Tilda Swinton in prosthetics. And then following that,
09:33I did, I did Greta with Isabel Huppert, which is, you know, the, the, the nineties thrillers
09:38that we love, like fatal attraction or basic instinct, but with Isabel Huppert and me. So
09:43that's again, flipping the gender norm where you usually wouldn't see Isabel Huppert being
09:48in that, that role. It would be usually a man.
09:50So, so one of the other things that I, uh, kind of picked up from this movie is that
09:55it's, uh, not only about, uh, about the gay experience, uh, but also about kind of the
10:03typical teenage experience.
10:05Yeah.
10:05Uh, do you think you're moving away from teenage roles? Like you're at a point now where this
10:10might be your last teenage role?
10:11You know, it's, age is a weird thing in acting in general. You know, you have some 30 year
10:19olds who are still playing teenagers in different shows and stuff. So it's, it's a strange thing.
10:23I think for me, I just try and base it off of the characters. And if there's a story that
10:28needs to be told and it happens to be, you know, in the high school years, then yes, I
10:34don't think I could reasonably pass for a freshman. Even though sometimes I feel like I look about
10:3912 years old, I might, I don't look quite 21. That's fine. Um, but I really base it on
10:46just the characters and these projects that are, that are, you know, in front of me. And
10:50I think, I think I would feel, I would feel strange trying to reach above my, my age currently.
10:59Like, I don't think I should, I'm 21 and I feel older than 21 and I feel like I want to
11:06try and take it slowly. And I have a, hopefully a long career ahead of me. And I think I want
11:11to take it step by step, but I want to play the characters in the time of why I am where
11:17I am currently in my life and being able to, I've always used acting in a lot of ways
11:21as a, as a form of therapy and, and in a way it's incredibly cathartic to walk through
11:26different emotions in the age that I'm in. And being able to do that since I was five years
11:31old and growing through my characters, I've learned so much about myself, my own emotional
11:36capacity. And I want to continue to do that. So I don't want to reach above my station in
11:40that sense. You know, I don't want to, you know, jump into a place where I want to grow
11:45with my characters. Yeah. Yeah. Since the making of this film, uh, it was before the election.
11:51Yeah. Um, do you think that people have a different opinion or a view of, uh, the conversion
11:57therapy, um, now that we're kind of on the other side of it? Yeah, well we started, so
12:02we started making this film in Obama era and then I was, I was campaigning for Hillary Clinton
12:06during it right before we started filming it. And it was midway through production that
12:11Trump was elected president. So it was, we were all together filming this movie when we
12:16watched her speech and we were crying together. And it was a really interesting change of pace
12:23for us being a part of the movie, but I think for also the temperature of America and the
12:28audiences that were going to be watching this movie. And so a hundred percent, I think that
12:32in the beginning it was an important movie to us because we've always been activists and
12:37we're very progressive in our need for storytelling and what we want to do. But do I think that audiences
12:43now are perceiving this movie even more importantly than they would have if we, you know, hadn't gone
12:49into this era? Yeah, a hundred percent. I think that the representation of gay people on screen
12:55in general, but especially in this light told through the queer lens with a, with a gay
12:59director, it's a very important, important perspective. And I think in a lot of ways this
13:06is a very, it's a movie that I think will be remembered in this time of coming out in this
13:10time and what that looks like for sure.
13:12If people watch the miseducation of Cameron Post and they feel moved to act on how they
13:20feel after they've seen the movie, what would you suggest they do?
13:24Get out there, you know, really try and, and, and elect people in your city and state legislature
13:33that is going to be able to represent you and represent LGBT rights adequately. You know,
13:37these are, it's only illegal in 14 states to subject minors to conversion therapy, but
13:43it is legal in every state in America to practice conversion therapy. 57,000 kids in the next five
13:49years will be put through conversion therapy today in America. 700,000 people have gone through
13:54it already in America. So this is something where it's right underneath your nose. It's in
14:00Los Angeles. It's in New York city. It's in Manhattan. It's not just in the Bible belt. It's
14:03all over America and try and educate yourself on that and, and read all the fine print, read
14:11all the fine print when you're voting.
14:13Chloe Grace Moretz, thank you so much for being here.
14:16The movie is the miseducation of Cameron Post.
14:18Bye.
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