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Greatest Basslines - Season 1 Episode 1 -
Peter Hook: Joy Division, New Order
Peter Hook: Joy Division, New Order
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00:00What is a bass line?
00:07What is a bass line?
00:09No, a bass line to me is something that has groove
00:12and that carries the song that makes you want to dance.
00:17A bass line is one note that leads to another note
00:21that creates perfect painting.
00:24I'm in the right place at the right time.
00:27The bass is the flavor, it's the juice, it's the seasoning, right?
00:33It's a melody down low.
00:35It's the roots from which the part of the song grows.
00:41If you were from space and you wanted to know what a bass line was...
00:45It's the hands on the wheel of the car.
00:48Sexy, rude, low notes.
00:52Bass is a physical thing.
00:54It kind of hits you in the gut.
00:57My puns are shaking, my nose is tickling.
01:01I say yes.
01:02I like that.
01:04Fog horns.
01:05This big...
01:07Booms and it carries for miles.
01:09Well, if anything bass, I don't know what is.
01:11It's all about the groove, baby.
01:13I'm Peter Hook, the bass player from Joy Division and New Order.
01:19Peter Hook was a seminal influence.
01:25Peter Hook, the master of melodies with a pig.
01:30Talking about Peter Hook, what he does with Joy Division, it's like nothing else.
01:38All I've ever wanted to do is just keep playing the music I made back in the 80s and 90s with three other lads from Manchester.
01:45Basically, just doing my day job.
01:48Do you like being a rock star?
01:49I am a fucking rock star.
01:51What are you on about?
01:52What's he on about?
01:53Cheeky bastard.
01:55So, 50 years on, I'm still on the road playing with my new band, The Light.
01:59There's something incredibly powerful in those arrangements of notes that reaches deep inside audiences.
02:09And together with a motley crew of other bass merchants, I'm going to deep dive into what makes this instrument so special.
02:18And let you in on the story behind some of my own signature bass lines.
02:26Typical Japanese, it comes all this way, it's still in tune.
02:30And why they have stood the test of time.
02:34Listen, I'm not going to put myself down.
02:36I've written some fantastic bass lines.
02:47Manchester is my spiritual home.
02:50Always has been and always will be.
02:52And my music couldn't have come from anywhere else.
02:55Growing up in Salford in the 70s, I had a lot of friends.
03:01It was great fun.
03:03I seem to remember I had a great time.
03:06I've been waiting for a guy to come and take me by the hand.
03:10It was a working class existence.
03:14Two up, two down, outside toilets.
03:17I had an outside toilet till I was 19.
03:20I was a little bit of a naughty boy and I got into trouble with the police a couple of times.
03:28Nothing to be proud of.
03:31I certainly wasn't proud of it.
03:33In the end, I saw an advert in the evening news in Manchester.
03:3850p, Sex Pistols.
03:40Phoned Barney up and said,
03:42Oh, that group I was telling you about are on.
03:44We should go and see them.
03:46Yes, I'm talking about that legendary Sex Pistols gig that thousands of Manx claimed to have been at.
03:58Most of them weren't, but me and my best mate from school, Barney, were there.
04:03And for us, it was literally life changing.
04:06I was spellbound.
04:07The energy in it was absolutely amazing.
04:12It was just a whale of feedback.
04:13It was so distorted.
04:15We're so pretty, you're so pretty.
04:18Screaming.
04:20You were just like,
04:21Oh my God, what the hell?
04:24It made the biggest impression on me.
04:27It was young kids telling you to fuck off.
04:30It's exactly what I wanted to do to the world.
04:33And simply, I just thought,
04:35Do you know what?
04:36I can tell everyone to fuck off as well.
04:39Teenage me found being sworn at by Johnny Rotten bizarrely inspiring.
04:44But little did I realise at the time that I was also under the spell of the Pistols deceptively nonchalant bass player, Glenn Matlock.
04:53My artisanship is playing bass.
04:56And it's in service of the songs that I've written or the people that you're playing with.
05:00And it's to make the song work.
05:02I'm not into particularly fancy bass playing, but I don't mind a twiddly bit or two, but not three.
05:08When you first hear, never mind the bollocks, there's the Sex Pistols, it's a game changer of a record.
05:22And you listen to it now and it sounds still phenomenal.
05:29You know, everyone used to say about punk only can't play and all that.
05:33I beg to differ.
05:35Glenn Matlock could play.
05:37I think one of the most important things in my kind of bass playing is when to change the octave.
05:41You know, because you can make a crescendo or you can da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba.
05:55I'm just doing anarchy in the UK and when you're in the three-piece bands you
06:00just want the bass to stick out because you want to be important right but if
06:05the key is like quite low you can't nearly really hear it with all the mark
06:11of the guitar and the drums battering away so that was a bit low and I thought
06:14we can hear that but it's got not enough oomph to it. Holger Cueske.
06:25I see bass playing a bit like being a plumber or a carpenter. Can you put some bass on this?
06:46Yeah that's it cost you that I mean it was an amazing learning curve from
06:58walking out of the Sex Pistols gig and I suggested we formed a band
07:04the Sex Pistols just showed me a way out of what we considered to be the
07:10drudgery of our our everyday lives
07:18Barney said to me you need to get a bass because I've got a guitar I said right and
07:26went to the shop the next day Maisel's in Piccadilly I must admit I borrowed 35 quid
07:31off me mum god rest her soul best 35 quid she ever spent me and Bernard Sumner or
07:38Barney as I call him became obsessed and set out in search of more members to fill
07:43our lineup we became avid punk gig goers and we kept seeing Ian at all the gigs and
07:49he'd be telling us about his band and we'd be telling him about our band and it was
07:54only funnily enough when his drummer left that the guitarist gave up and Ian
08:00was on his own so he joined us so Joy Division became me on bass Barney on
08:07guitar and keys Steve Morris on drums and Ian Curtis up front and we went to work
08:19when you've got no songs it's dead easy to write them we jammed more or less non-stop and everything
08:31that we wrote came from jams we were rehearsing for two hours on a Wednesday and three hours on a
08:42Sunday afternoon because it was all we could afford to chip in and get one pound 15 hour and we'd do a
08:49song every time we got together yeah I mean and we were so prolific as Joy Division we were writing
09:00these songs at 20 21 when we were together in the group we were very serious about what we were doing
09:09but when we weren't we were the biggest bunch of piss a dickhead you've ever met in your life
09:14and the thing is is that we never took ourselves too seriously until we played and then when we
09:23played it was like it was it was very serious but the rate at which we grew as musicians it seemed
09:34like we'd been playing forever when we got to shadow play and when we got to she's lost control
09:41we've been playing for ages and it was in fact it was less than a year 18 months at the most
09:48and how how did we do it I haven't got a bleeding clue all we did was we just kept at it and we kept
09:54doing it knowing Peter he would have seen his contribution as being absolutely equal to anyone
10:03else in the band I think that was the great thing about you know that era of music there there there
10:10was a democratic attitude to how the instruments were dealt with and how the individuals were dealt
10:15with I was never the type to sit in the background just keeping time so I made the bass as loud as
10:23possible melodic and upfront and if I was gonna play it you were bloody well gonna wear it it's one of
10:31the hardest things is to have an identifiable sounds you know how do you go about doing that giving it
10:36all that you know top line stuff that he's playing well he's playing the bass line in there but I ain't
10:43the low stuff Peter hooks kind of kind of carrying carrying the tune I took a few things from Peter
10:51hook where I would have a vibrating string those sorts of things and you know Peter was doing
11:00it his style is so unlike anything else there is a guy who has got a sound and you can you can put
11:17your finger on it you know whereas I can't put my finger on what I do you can repeat my style came
11:22about simply because Barney had copped for a wonderful amplifier which was a ud30 vox combo and
11:33it sounded oh my god it was just wonderful it was absolutely fantastic now unfortunately I ended up
11:40with a 10 pound bass cabinet and a sound city 120 amp head that was shit so you couldn't hear the bass at all but the only
11:55way I could get to hear it was if I went high up on the strings so whenever I played high Ian would
12:01literally go and he go play high hockey play high you know you're looking at she's lost control God all
12:15the classic joy divisions were through him shouting at me to play high starting off in the band right
12:21we just had the instruments we had no fancy pedals we had no fancy arms the music had to come somehow
12:26from there I remember reading something about Peter hook saying I was trying to hear myself
12:31over the noise in the rehearsal room so I started playing higher up the neck and I tried it and
12:36actually works God my style you know it seems really weird to even talk about it and the weird thing
12:41is is that this hand plays rhythm and this one plays melodies and they're completely separate and I
12:49I don't even play with four fingers I play with three fingers
12:52three-fingered bass player tone-deaf three-fingered bass player
13:05there's a brutality to it there's an aggressiveness to the discord that he's working with
13:16that's that's what a torturer would do
13:23and that's a lot of what hooky was doing on that initial album this was just come on you
13:32take notice of the bass
13:34the fierce energy of punk had lit the fuse but for us post-punks it was more about the music and the
13:47sound bands like the stranglers and their bassist John Jack Spinell had so much more to offer
13:52there was a thing that happened in the 80s you know when your basement was the thing to do
13:59the first time you heard peaches it was amazing
14:07it was such a big deal when the bass line was it
14:15there are times where you just want to strut something like John Jack Spinell and you know
14:25you can't get more masculine than him and I just remember hearing and it was like a whole world opened
14:39up for me and I listened to that record and for years I went how do you get that sound
14:46my new bass hero was John Jack's because of the way his bass sounded I went to see him at Bingley
14:56Hall in Stafford and I was just absolutely mesmerized and I actually stayed till the end nearly had a fight
15:04with the bouncers so that I could look at his gear and write it all down to get it and I did I actually did
15:11get his gear I got a high watt 100 which was what he was using and a 2x15 Vox cab
15:21sonically peaches is about as fat as they come but it's that loping swaggering timing that makes it a truly great bass line
15:31I think Jean-Jacques would say it it comes from reggae I think it might have been a reggae track first
15:40what was interesting about some of those early British bass players particularly if they were
15:45London based was they did have this understanding of reggae reggae came in with punk Donalette's a
15:56the vortex we planned reggae and all that so it was it was it really was stood side by side I like
16:03the culture of reggae it was warm-hearted it had a spiritual sort of dimension to it as well I remember
16:18in 1976 hearing catch a fire for the first time and again realizing that you know bassism is a physical
16:27thing it it kind of hits you in the gut this idea that the guitar was just clicking and there was so
16:38much room for the bass there's many things I love about reggae bass but it's melodic and you can sing those bass parts you know what I mean so if I go
16:45see look if the camera people are shaking their heads oh like everything else is it's gravy you can't have reggae without bass not gonna happen
16:52believe it or not I actually lived in Jamaica for a few years when I was a kid
17:00See, look, if the camera people are shaking their heads,
17:08like, everything else is gravy.
17:10You can't have reggae without bass.
17:12Not going to happen.
17:19Believe it or not, I actually lived in Jamaica
17:21for a few years when I was a kid.
17:23And Bob Marley was, of course,
17:25like a patron saint of the island, and still is.
17:28But his bass man, Aston Family Man Barrett,
17:32holds a special place in the hearts of bass players the world over.
17:36Aston Family Man Barrett really had a pulse and a groove,
17:40but was very musical.
17:42So a lot of Bob Marley songs were major keys.
17:44Baby, you can hear his lines, you can hear the very melodic lines.
17:53Satisfy my soul.
17:56Oh, please.
17:58You can hear that name?
18:05Family Man.
18:06That bass.
18:08Keeping the family together, man.
18:09Rocking.
18:10And you should know
18:12I like it, I like it.
18:18The vibration of this island is mystical.
18:21The early Africans that give to this generation a foundation to stand on.
18:27They brought something with them that just can't change.
18:31And that defines the sound of the island.
18:36Bob Marley and the Whalers brought reggae to the world.
18:40But its African roots echo deepest in this monumental Abyssinian's bass line
18:44from Leroy Sybils.
18:52Sata Massagon is a song of message.
18:54It's about black people, repatriation, relating to the motherland.
19:00It was all about Africa, so I had to get in there now, you know, and write my parts to complement Africa too.
19:14You know, and the bass line now, I wanted a Rastaman bass line.
19:23Biblical in its feel and African in its sound.
19:28Originally recorded in 1969, Sata Massagana went on to become a cornerstone of root reggae,
19:38a true anthem of the movement.
19:40And through the decades, it's been reversioned by many great reggae artists.
19:48It worked.
19:49There is more Sata version than any other reggae song in the history of reggae music.
19:56They've called it reggae and...
20:01What can I say?
20:02You're good, man.
20:03I'm telling you.
20:04Hey!
20:17In all the bands that I played in, there has never been a band like Joint Division.
20:22It was rock solid.
20:24Each member put so much equally into it, and that has never happened since.
20:34I was so happy when Ian would pick some of the melodies out from the bass guitar to use as the vocal.
20:41Love Will Tears Apart.
20:47Love Will Tears Apart.
20:48We wrote it on a Wednesday night.
20:49And we left, and he said, oh, you know what, I'm going to write some lyrics to that.
20:57I think it's going to be a good song, that one.
20:59And he came back on Sunday, and we finished it off on Sunday, so it took like five hours, four hours.
21:05And he said, I've got some words here.
21:07Love Will Tears Apart.
21:08Love Will Tears Apart.
21:09Do you mind if I sing the bass line?
21:10I said, mind?
21:11I said, I'm over the frickin' moon, mate.
21:14Love Will Tears Apart again.
21:21A lot of people got confused.
21:23They were like listening to Love Will Tears Apart and go, I love that guitar part, you know?
21:27But actually, it's a bass.
21:33Love Will Tears Apart.
21:35It was just literally me and Steve, we came up with this bit first.
21:48That was the first bit.
21:49And then...
22:00Ian said, why don't we put those two bits together?
22:03And so the song was that.
22:05Maybe it started some people on their bass journeys of playing bass, hearing that a bass could do something like that, you know?
22:16I know I was really inspired by that myself.
22:19You know, you hear something like...
22:21Like, it's just got so much to it, you know?
22:24It's got melody, it's got rhythm, it's got...
22:26It holds that root down of the music as well, and it's so melancholy as well. It's got so much emotion to it, you know? And it's so raw as well.
22:39What I love about Love Will Tears Apart.
22:40What I love about Love Will Tears Apart, it's a heart-breaking song lyrically, played as if it was the happiest song you've ever had.
22:56When you listen to the words, they are the death of a relationship.
22:57When you listen to the words, they are the death of a relationship.
23:02And it's heartbreaking.
23:03And you listen to the music.
23:04and it's heartbreaking.
23:05And you listen to the music, and it's just such a contradiction.
23:33Contradiction is such a contrast, it is one of the strangest songs that we ever did.
23:39The melancholy of it is a power,
23:43and that power to be able to reach into people's souls
23:46with words and music is, my God, it's invaluable, it's earth-shattering.
23:58This song about the pain Ian was feeling
24:01became Joy Division's enduring anthem,
24:03and it's a cruel irony that just a month before it was released, we lost him.
24:17It was very gradual, his illness started very gradually.
24:23He was his own worst enemy, he would not give in.
24:28He fought it, he fought it on stage.
24:31He fought it everywhere.
24:32It shouldn't have been a shock.
24:33But we were kids, we were 21, 22, I think we were 23 when he died.
24:40We didn't know our ass for our elbow, so we didn't know what to do.
24:44It kills me now when kids come up to me,
24:45and 18-year-old kids, 16-year-old kids, and they go,
24:50what was Ian like?
24:53And I'm thinking, he was just like you.
24:58He was no different, he was just a normal person
25:01that was able to do something that was truly extraordinary.
25:05There could be no Joy Division without Ian, but when we found ourselves assembled at the usual
25:16rehearsal space on the Monday after his funeral, it was clear we had to carry on.
25:20We renamed ourselves New Order.
25:24And just as the world around us was changing fast, so would our music.
25:29This wonderful newfound wealth and brightness that we found in the 80s did change our music.
25:42To us, it felt like the world was brighter.
25:50The music did get poppier.
25:54And at the dawn of the 80s, pop meant synths,
25:58samplers, sequencers, and all manner of other machines.
26:04We started incorporating electronic elements. Barney had his synthesizer.
26:10We invested in a DR-55, which was a Boss Doctor Rhythm.
26:16And then we bought a Arp Omni string machine, and we started experimenting with that.
26:23Everything you needed to make a fantastic cocktail, which was what Blue Mundy was.
26:36Just that drum beat that it starts with, that's such a hook.
26:40The drum machine, the riff, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.
26:46We nicked off a Donna Summer B-side.
26:48The kick drum came from Our Love by Donna Summer, produced by Giorgio Moroder,
26:57where he put a delay on the kick drum, so it went dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum-dum.
27:02The beat was pure Giorgio Moroder, but the inspiration for the bass line itself came from another
27:10very famous Italian composer. We were listening to a lot of Ennio Morricone,
27:15and we were watching the films in Good, the Bad and the Ugly. It just came from that, me doing that.
27:26Then it became...
27:27It still gives me goosebumps, that song.
27:39It has an impact that has not waned to now.
27:44How does it feel?
27:47It's incredible. I mean, it's still so popular.
27:50There was a poll in Mixmag with DJs, so it's all going downhill,
27:56you can't get anyone dancing, what song do you put on?
27:59And it was Blue Monday.
28:00By a thousand votes out of a thousand.
28:04And you were like, wow.
28:07Blue Monday is still the best-selling 12-inch single of all time,
28:11and much of the proceeds back in 1982 were ploughed into the building of the music haven
28:16in central Manchester, the wonderful Hacienda.
28:20The grand vision of Factory Records founder, Tony Wilson.
28:24Tony wanted to open a place, like an orphanage, where we could all get together
28:29and be together, all the little, all us little weirdos that came out of punk.
28:34Well, we're ready.
28:38I probably was on the cusp of being sacked a few times,
28:41come for air, being in the Hacienda.
28:44I would just say I was out studying grooves.
28:51The original house thing, and it's all your programme 808 and whatever machines,
28:56and that was the base at its zenith, you know, it really does...
29:00When bass lines are really carrying tunes.
29:02There was one machine that changed basses in dance video forever.
29:08And it's this strange little thing, the Roland TB-303 bass line,
29:12which was invented for guitarists and singer-songwriters
29:17to use a drum machine and a programme bass line
29:20so they didn't have to pay for a backing band.
29:21It's got a lovely resonant low end until you tweak the resonance,
29:26and then it does that...
29:28..acid noises.
29:29This changed the way that sequence bass lines sounded more than anything.
29:35The bass line in modern dance music is still the basis of the groove.
29:41It's normally the thing that you latch onto first,
29:44it's the thing that drives the song,
29:46and it's the conduit between the drums and the melody.
29:49So it just sits in the middle, dependable, sexy, like all bass players.
29:55It just, you know, fulfils that role in the middle,
29:57and you've got the twinkly stuff at the top,
29:59and you've got the thump of the drums at the bottom.
30:02But in, I mean, some of my favourite dance records are just a,
30:05you know, and they're just a bass line.
30:07It's a little bit of percussion to tickle.
30:20Four on the floor.
30:23I could dance to that all night.
30:27And the big bit is it just breaks down to just the bass.
30:30There's something in bass culture that it does, it doesn't scream at you,
30:38it's the thing that you're dancing to.
30:40You think you're, you're listening to the, to the top line,
30:43or you're listening to the guitar solo, but in fact,
30:45what you're dancing to is the bass.
30:46So in the kind of dance music that I play as a DJ, it is absolutely paramount.
30:53DJing is really about feeding the crowd.
30:56In electronic music, bass is like one of the most important parts.
31:01So when there's like a strong bass drop, you really see the crowd's reaction.
31:08DJing is such a different thing from playing in a band,
31:11but at the same time, there are some common factors.
31:15You can really see the crowd's reaction because they're not looking at the show.
31:20They're just there to dance.
31:21So I think the focus is completely on the music.
31:26It's really simple, but very hooky.
31:28Whether or not you're a musician or a DJ,
31:33you're still looking for things that people will identify with it,
31:36things that will move them, things that will resonate with them,
31:40you know, a groove that they're going to latch onto.
31:45New Order already had one foot in the indie chart and one on the dance floor,
31:49but when Ecstasy took off and turbocharged clubbing at the beginning of the 90s,
31:53we found ourselves in the eye of a perfect storm.
31:56New Order went to clubs in Ibiza and heard that sound.
32:01That's where Manchester rock bands met Disco.
32:05We went to Ibiza and saw the impact that Ecstasy had on people in those clubs,
32:13and you watched it grow and change.
32:16This eclectic mix of music of where you had an indie tune and a dance tune
32:21and then a rap tune and all this lot put together.
32:26Suddenly, everyone was on Ecstasy and they danced all the time.
32:29And then by the time we'd got back from Ibiza and Ecstasy had landed in England,
32:38the same thing happened in England.
32:41In 1987, when we came back from Ibiza, the Hacienda was a completely different animal.
32:49It was sold out constantly. It was riddled with drugs.
32:54The atmosphere was crazy. It was absolutely fucking nuts.
33:07They do say that drum machines were invented so the singer doesn't have to talk to the drummer.
33:11Play!
33:13You know, it's amazing.
33:15If you imagine a little fella with eight arms in there, it's got a lot of practical implication.
33:21And they say that bass synthesizers were invented so the singer didn't have to talk to the bass player.
33:26And I think most lead singers would probably agree.
33:28Just loads of different sounds. You've got 120 sounds in it.
33:33Are you a computer programmer or a musician?
33:38Neither. Neither.
33:40Looking back now, I realize how quickly things changed as we got the new equipment.
33:45The more machinery you got, the more Barney was able to layer the songs up.
33:52And then every time he put a new layer on, your window started to close.
34:00You'd be going, oh, should we just play now? Should we just play on it now?
34:04So yeah, it became a bit of a bone of contention.
34:06I knew the bass was important to Joy Division. I knew the bass was important to New Order.
34:14And I remember when them three turned round for the first time and asked me not to play on a track.
34:19I was like, you fucking cheeky bastards.
34:25I, something I would never do to anybody.
34:29Oh God, I was, I was aghast. And I ended up playing on the fucking track anyway,
34:33because I wouldn't say no for an answer. Fuck off.
34:36I suppose I should have known then what was coming.
34:46Regret was the last song that New Order wrote together,
34:52because afterwards Bernard decided that he wanted to write on his own.
34:57And it was very sad at the time.
35:01Look at me, I love you
35:05Yeah, it was a weird song to finish on.
35:25Because it was so good.
35:29The beauty of a great bass line isn't what you play, but how you play it. And also knowing when not to play.
35:50That's what we call feel. And the man who influenced us all was one of the masters of Motown's bass lines, James Jameson.
35:57If you listen to Marvin Gaye's What's Going On album, and how he's playing so funky and beautiful. It's not about the bass line per se. It's about how he's walking around it and controlling and using the roots with the fists.
36:13Like, it's just so beautiful, complex, simple, creating riffs that make people want to dance.
36:25There have been a few bass revolutions. I would say that James Jameson maybe was the first electric bass revolution.
36:37Maybe he taught us that bass didn't just have to be this thing in the back. It could be like really fanciful and melodic as long as you found a way to keep the music grooving while you did that.
36:49And so I think we all came from him in a way.
36:56James James Jameson is in my top three of bass players of all time. Just the amount of groove he poured out.
37:07You know, he's probably played on virtually 90 odd percent of all Motown records and not necessarily the most complex of grooves, but he's on the money every time.
37:14I'd kill for one tenth of that guy's talent. I really, really would.
37:19If you listen to the isolated bass part of what's going on, any of James Jameson's isolated bass parts, and you just listen to the complexity of the rhythm and the subtlety of the notes and the harmony, he's an absolute master who created the history of great bass parts.
37:42He's the sound of Motown for me. It's just incredible. And some of the stuff's like ultra complicated. And then you get Papa was a Rolling Stone, which is like the simplest bass riff, but probably the one of the greatest bass riffs of all time for me anyway, because it was like, oh, I can play that.
38:04And that's all it is. It's almost like a simple as that.
38:23James Jameson's influence is omnipresent in bass, spanning decades and genres. Listen carefully and you'll hear it in heavy metal, pop, punk and reggae.
38:35And reggae.
38:36James Jameson, great influence.
38:41As a matter of fact, I use one of his licks in Ziggy Marley's album. The song is cosmic.
38:50It's one drop, but kind of scat tempo.
38:53But the lick is what I'm talking about.
39:03That's a Jameson lick. Anyone who plays bass and know Jameson can say, ah, that's a Jameson lick. That bass player is amazing.
39:12There was a song that I, a Bowie song that I did on the Next Day album called The Stars Are Out Tonight. And that's that same kind of Motown pattern.
39:24It has that rolling bass line. So it's kind of a, it's like once you jump on, this one is like you're on the train and it's just going and it's nice and it's steady.
39:35And everything else is kind of floating around that, but that's just like kind of the chugging of the train and it just plows ahead. Those are kind of my favorite bass lines and that's very Motown.
39:56Managee in the UK. So that's kind of the groove of the song, but then last verse, got to jazz it up a little bit. Ah, how about something that's a bit James Jameson.
40:10James Jameson. I start at the second middle eight. Ah, here's the James Jameson bit.
40:29Yes, even the Sex Pistols biggest hit borrowed from Jameson for a little extra flair amongst the fury.
40:35James James Jameson's Motown bass line sound as good now as they did a half century ago.
40:42And I knew there was a new audience who were hungry to hear Joy Division and New Order's classics played live instead of in those little ear pods.
40:51So when Barney and Steve quit playing live, there was only one thing to do.
40:56I had to start my own band, but that gave me a problem.
41:01Sadly, I can't sing and play bass at the same time. If only there was a way to clone yourself.
41:10Do you want tea, darling? Yes, please.
41:15I never pushed it on you, did I? No, they were just, well, we had a load in the house, didn't we? Yeah, yeah.
41:23So that just pretty natural. I remember you saying you weren't going to teach me because you shouldn't teach me because you'll just end up sounding like me, which is what you said.
41:35Now you do. And then the hilarious thing was that for the last 15 years, it's been my exact job to sound like you.
41:41It's not traditional bass playing, I guess. It's very unique. And it's almost like you're the sort of lead guitar player, which not a lot of bass players get to experience.
41:55My favourite moment on stage is when you walk on, you get your smattering of applause or whatever, and you stand there and I look round to look at my son and go, yeah, chip off the old block, wonderful.
42:08And to look round and then think, fucking hell, in a minute we're going to take your fucking head off.
42:14And it's just amazing moment. That's why it's so bloody addictive.
42:30To think that we play the light more or less the same as Joy Division did, because I insisted on it, because that's what makes me happy.
42:42To see that move people to tears.
42:50It was a wonderful, wonderful thing to do. And Ian's greatest wish was for Joy Division to be big all over the world.
42:58And he used to say to me, OK, we're going to be big in Brazil, we're going to be big in Portugal, we're going to be big in Peru.
43:05And he never made it to any of them. And that is the wonderful thing now for me to be able to go to Mexico and see the way the music is appreciated and goes down and how much love there is for him and our music.
43:24Our music, that is the best thing in the world. And all I did.
43:28It was polite.
43:40It was polite.
43:42It was polite.
43:44I don't have the ability.
43:48T步 10 feet later inимо more.
43:52It was polite.
43:53Yeah.
43:55It was polite.
43:56It was polite.
43:58It was polite to some really understand who they are.
44:01It was polite with us.
44:04With some people from the world.
44:06Our music, that is easy for us to remember when we came to talk with them and were good and thought and said,
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