00:00I think it's just important to understand objectives going in.
00:02This was an entirely rational, pragmatic budget for Keir Starmer.
00:06You're Keir Starmer, you want to retain power, you want to stay in a position of authority,
00:11and the fundamental realization he had is of the last 12 prime ministers who had to fire a chancellor,
00:17none of them survived a subsequent 12 months.
00:19He has to have Rachel Reeves in power.
00:22And so this is the buying IBM of budgets.
00:24You're never fired for buying IBM, you're not getting fired for this budget.
00:28It's back-loaded, there's honestly a real lack of materiality, a billion here, a billion there.
00:34It honestly is nothing in a $1.3 trillion budget.
00:38It lacks defence, it lacks energy, it lacks social welfare, triple lock.
00:43I mean, there's really not much in this, to be quite honest.
00:45I know there's mansion tax, starting in 2028.
00:49Rachel, I don't think it'll be here in 2028, but good to plan ahead.
00:53I mean, it really is a bland budget.
00:56Ahead of the budget, you were very strong coming out against proposals, potential floated proposals, around the so-called exit tax.
01:02Yeah.
01:03That has not come through.
01:04We do not have a broad-based wealth tax in terms of a potential hit to high earners.
01:09We do have that mansion tax, as you say.
01:11There's stamp duty relief, for example, on new IPOs in the UK.
01:15So there's some positives there, presumably, for the entrepreneurial scene of the UK.
01:19I think the real positives are what she's not included, which is exactly what you said there, the exit tax and the wealth tax.
01:24And what no one talks about is the WhatsApp groups in the dark.
01:27And the WhatsApp groups in the dark are where you have multi-billionaire and multi-hundred-millionaire founders who are all planning or thinking about leaving.
01:34And what I see consistently in these groups is that, in particular here, everyone was planning on leaving.
01:42And so I give them credit for listening and for being cognizant of entrepreneurial communities, because I think they did listen.
01:50And they obviously backtracked on potential plans.
01:53But, I mean, there was an exodus happening if this did go through.
01:56There was an exodus happening if this did go through.
01:58I think it's fair to say that there are a few people with their finger on the pulse with the network that you have when it comes to entrepreneurs and founders and investors here in the UK.
02:06So what are they saying to you now?
02:08What does it mean for talent, attracting talent into the UK ecosystem?
02:11Honestly, I don't think it changes much from where we were.
02:13I think talent will continue to go.
02:15We are in a global...
02:15Talent will continue to leave.
02:17You're seeing that materially.
02:18Materially.
02:19You're seeing this with founders and CEOs who are leaving for much more tax advantageous countries.
02:23You're seeing it bluntly with people who want...
02:26We're in a global war for talent.
02:27This is what we forget.
02:28We're not in a US versus UK.
02:31We're in a US versus UK versus Dubai versus Switzerland versus Monaco, Lisbon, Milan.
02:37It is a very global war for talent.
02:39They will continue to leave.
02:40I don't think this budget really did much change that.
02:43This is not a growth budget.
02:44This isn't a budget that excites.
02:46This isn't a budget that inspires entrepreneurial communities.
02:49As I said, it's a bland budget.
02:51If there was one policy that you could reach for, one tool that you could...
02:55Lever you could pull to grow this tech ecosystem in the UK, what would it be?
03:01Listen, I think a lot of it comes down to growth funding in a lot of ways.
03:05People have talked about this a lot.
03:07I know Matt Miller has been on before.
03:08We do lack depth of growth funding.
03:10And the saddest thing for me is, you know, we've been fortunate to make, in some cases, millions for our investors several times.
03:18And the money goes straight back to US institutions, which is great for our investors.
03:22I'm thrilled to have US institutions.
03:23But I would love for my grandparents to be the benefactors of that and to have UK pension funds, to have UK institutions.
03:30We need more growth capital, and that should come from...
03:33Do you welcome the changes around the stamp duty holiday for UK IPOs?
03:36Is that going to help?
03:37Do you expect to see a ramp up in listings in the UK?
03:40Is that going to open the floodgates?
03:42One of the biggest founders in the UK texted me and said that it's rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
03:48It's a...
03:48Sure, that's a nice thing to do.
03:51Does that solve a problem?
03:52Not really.
03:53Do the best founders want to list in London?
03:55No.
03:56You know, I interviewed Nick Staronsky on the show.
03:58He said that he didn't plan to list in London.
04:01That is what matters.
04:02The founder and CEO of Revolut, who has recently left the UK.
04:06Yes.
04:07Yes.
04:07How much of a red flag was that?
04:09That's someone who's built a business of such scale that was recently valued this week at 75 billion US dollars.
04:14The CEO and founder of Revolut deciding to move domicile to the UAE.
04:19Listen, I think it's incredibly meaningful, and I don't want to be too doomsday or too negative,
04:23but it's incredibly meaningful.
04:24And like venture capital, where a lot of the returns accrue from very few, it's exactly the same with taxes, sadly.
04:32And when you look at the potential capital gains windfall that Nick would have brought,
04:36I mean, in some cases, if you want to extrapolate that out for him paying it all,
04:41you know, that'll be 40% of Rachel Reade's black hole with just his Gap Games tax bill.
04:46When it comes to AI and the UK, in the context of what we're saying on the policy front,
04:51what are you most optimistic about, Harry?
04:53Where can the UK play in the AI, the so-called AI stack?
04:57Oh my God, so there is real hope.
04:59We have great talent, and we have great talent around some incredible hubs,
05:04whether that is, you know, King's Cross and everything that we have with DeepMind in London.
05:08We have unbelievable young startups, whether it's Synthesia, whether it's Eleven Labs.
05:13We have great talent.
05:14I think we need a vibe change, Tom.
05:17Like, we like to moan in the UK, and I'm probably, you know, my mother tells me that I'm also one who likes to moan.
05:24But we do have great talent.
05:25We do have ambitious talent, and also we do have American people coming to London.
05:30And I've seen this in the last few weeks.
05:32Four founders in the last few weeks who've come to London because you cannot get the AI talent in the US
05:37because it's too expensive and it churns, it leaves too quickly.
05:40And in London, it's cheaper and it's more loyal.
05:43And so we do have actual real benefits to building a business in London, and the talent is there.
05:49I don't think the growth funding is there.
05:51I don't always think the ambition is there necessarily, but we do have the talent.
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