European decision-making on Ukraine 'embarrassing,’ former Foreign Minister Kuleba says

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European decision-making on Ukraine 'embarrassing,’ former Foreign Minister Kuleba says  Ukraine’s former foreign minister tells Euronews’ 12 Minutes With that Europe needs to "pull itself together" amid the diplomatic push for peace, saying the current 'pace of decision-making' means there "are no good times for Europe ahead."  READ MORE : http://www.euronews.com/2025/11/27/european-decision-making-on-ukraine-embarrassing-former-foreign-minister-kuleba-says  Subscribe to our channel. Euronews is available on Dailymotion in 12 languages

Transcript

00:00my guest today on 12 minutes with is the former ukrainian foreign minister dmitry kuleba sir

00:15thank you so much for joining us on euronews it's my pleasure now you were part of president

00:22selensky's inner circle until last year you know him what do you think will be going through his

00:29mind this week as he's being pressured to quickly sign a peace seal by the u.s he will be saying to

00:36himself we have to hold the line uh he would consider uh any major concession as a beginning

00:45of a catastrophe for for the country so um he will continue to engage constructively with president

00:53trump uh he will continue to actively involve european leaders in this engagement um and he

01:02will also continue to rally europeans uh to be faster and more efficient in the implementations

01:10of decisions they took themselves on rearming europe uh on providing uh financial assistance to ukraine

01:18etc you say that any concession would be a catastrophe yet we now know from leaked

01:24conversations that the starting point for these talks was a kremlin wish list essentially a russia

01:31drafted plan given all of this can ukraine trust the americans as negotiators as mediators in this

01:40process not really but we do not have another america so you have to engage with them uh on the

01:47understanding that you cannot rely on them entirely but there are so many issues where america is

01:56irreplaceable that you cannot just say we don't want to do to have any to do any business with you

02:03because you speak to the russian stuff and and you put and you table their ideas as your own ideas

02:08that just not how it works but strategic decoupling is obvious and the sooner circles in europe will

02:16realize that engagement with america can only be of tactical value um the better it will be for

02:26everyone so you say that if this all falls apart if a peace deal doesn't come from this push do you

02:32think that europe is alone in supporting ukraine i think it already fell apart i believe that

02:39that's uh after the aggressive and erratic handling of this 28 points plan uh by by washington

02:47resistance by ukraine and europe and finally the whitkov leaks i don't think it this 28 or 19 or whatever

02:58uh points plan uh can survive all of this but uh there will definitely be something new uh and you uh no one can admit failure

03:08so we will see uh this effort evolving in another effort the problem is that um it won't be much

03:18different it may be framed differently there may be like 15 or 30 or 35 points but the content will be

03:25the same and the question is what do we have to do to change the substance of the proposal

03:30now we have seen some more concrete ideas come to light in this whole process this week maybe we can

03:38take a little bit of a closer look at them because one of them is this idea of capping the ukrainian

03:43army originally 800 000 um now there's different figures being bandied about but essentially wouldn't

03:49this leave ukraine vulnerable to future russian attacks can ukraine accept it any way any kind of

03:57limitations on its armed forces i believe it would be a grave mistake first this limitation if you

04:05establish a cap on the army of 800 000 people it's like still a lot but it's a message a clear message

04:15that a foreign power restricts your sovereignty and secondly it's a clear message that a foreign power

04:25humiliates your uh um your army your nation um and this is just not not it cannot be accepted so

04:35uh in my view even uh the idea that is floating is that is that like let's set up a cap at the

04:42highest possible number which still be enough let's just satisfy the russians i mean if we proceed from

04:48the perspective of just satisfying uh the russians we will get nowhere we will we will pave the road to

04:54hell with good intentions of satisfying the russians and capping the army is uh the most uh prominent

05:01example of that effort because we have seen in recent months western allies shifting from their

05:08position of or we will send a force a peacekeeping force to ukraine and saying no the best security

05:15guarantee for ukraine is a strong strong ukrainian armed forces but do you think in all of this they

05:22should be moving back to the concept of nato membership does that need to be on the table

05:28and what do you make of this concept first floated by the italian prime minister that ukraine could get

05:34some kind of article 5 style guarantees without being a full-fledged member of nato is that something

05:42you would support isn't it embarrassing that almost four years into the war european leaders are still

05:48jumping from one topic uh to another from sending peacekeeping forces to ukraine to reassurance forces

05:54to ukraine to strengthening ukrainian army to offering something like uh uh article 5 or offering membership

06:04you know with this space of decision making and conceptual understanding of where europe is heading

06:10there are no good times for europe ahead so um we we really have to get the coalition of the willing

06:18for the for the time being i'm sorry i i appreciate every effort that is being made to support ukraine

06:24but when it comes to these big issues coalition of the willing is more about branding and framing

06:29than actually offering answers to the most vital questions i want to come back to the question of

06:37brussels's role here now we hear here in brussels that there's currently a lot of resistance still

06:43to this idea of giving ukraine this reparations loan that would be based on russia's immobilized

06:50state assets in europe there's no breakthrough at the moment it's belgium but also other countries

06:57really not feeling that this is something that they can do that the legal risks are too high

07:01um do you think that europe needs to just steam ahead with this plan or could this infuriate

07:08president trump who also seems to have um ideas about having his own slice of those russian assets

07:14uh the choice is very simple uh since europe believes that the support to ukraine should continue

07:21not only for the sake of ukraine but also for the sake of europe for its own national for its own

07:28security interest then you have to find hundreds of billions of euros these hundreds of billions of

07:35europe of euros exist only in two places in your pocket and in russian frozen assets so now you have

07:43to make your choice do you want to overcome the resistance of belgium and maybe someone else

07:51in order to pay for the war with russian money or you want to take this money out of your own pocket

07:59in my view the answer is obvious it's been a a challenging time for ukraine domestically as well

08:06recently i want to ask you and they're facing the continued veto of hungarian prime minister

08:11victor orban when it comes to ukraine's accession to the eu and while this has been heating up there has

08:16also been this big sprawling investigation by the two anti-corruption bodies into corruption that has

08:22touched the heart of government um has president selensky responded in the right way um to address

08:29this issue well he ordered uh um two ministers implicated in this case uh to be knocked out of

08:37the government but um the ukrainian society does not find this decision sufficient uh the mood in ukraine

08:47is that more needs to be done in order to clean up uh the the way the country is governed uh and this

08:57is the biggest challenge the president the president is is facing now um otherwise everyone understands

09:04that we are at war and we have to be we have to be very responsible in the actions we take

09:10uh but again uh war is not an excuse to do whatever authorities believe they are entitled to do

09:18how concerned are you that if these talks fall apart if trump retreats once again how concerned are you

09:27about the situation on the front line and the next year of war for the ukrainians

09:32if things do not change in ukraine in the and in the european union in november 2026 we can do another

09:43interview and we will be discussing a situation when ukrainian a russian army would further advance

09:52deeper into the heartland of ukraine ukrainian economy would be further destroyed uh european union would

10:00still be discussing uh the frozen issues frozen assets issue and most most dramatically the same

10:11subs the same 28 point points plan would be on the table so if we really need to change things

10:18we need to change ourselves and this applies mainly to us in ukraine and to you in the european union

10:27but what do you mean by that mr coleba how can ukraine and the eu change what do they need to do right

10:33now to improve the situation and to make sure that ukraine gets the support it needs

10:39ukraine has to change uh the way it is uh governed uh i'm not talking about elections there will be no

10:48elections uh as long as the ceasefire is not is not concluded but uh governance should improve uh secondly

10:57trust between uh the society and the government should be restored uh europe has to do three things

11:05finally start implementing the rearm europe program at the pace that matches the challenge

11:15uh unfree uh use uh solve the problem of russian frozen assets and unblock the process of ukraine's

11:24accession to the european union do these things and then together ukraine and europe and and the rest of

11:31europe should uh um should keep uh keep president trump from uh uh making any decisions that would uh stop the

11:43program of selling american weapons uh to european nations through nato for ukraine and sharing

11:51intelligence mr coleba thank you so much for your time thank you

11:55thank you

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