- 2 days ago
An India Today special investigation reveals the easy availability of bomb-making materials, including ammonium nitrate and NPK fertiliser, in Haryana's Nuh, Sonipat, and Faridabad.
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00:00Good evening and India Today's special investigation blows the lid off
00:03lax security and lax administration that makes you and I, the people of our country,
00:11so vulnerable to terror attacks like the terror attack at the Red Fort
00:16by a group of radical Islamist terrorist module of doctors from Jammu and Kashmir, Uttar Pradesh and Haryam.
00:22The expose will show you how even after the Red Fort blast,
00:2715 people were killed, a large number injured.
00:32Even now, bomb-making material, ammonium nitrate, NPK, fuel oil, other bomb-making ingredients
00:41are so readily available over-the-counter in Nu, in Haryana, in Sonipath and in Faridabad
00:48with absolutely no security, no tightening of administrative control despite the blast.
00:54You can go and buy any quantity you want and the shopkeepers,
01:00on camera you will hear these shopkeepers say they will fudge data, they will fudge records,
01:05they will add documents just to fudge the records, only if the price is right.
01:10We get you this India Today special investigation that shows you ammonium nitrate, fuel oil, NPK
01:18and other ingredients still available in large quantities and off-the-shelf in Haryana.
01:23India Today's undercover reporters, they travel to Nu, they travel to Faridabad, they travel to Sonipath
01:28and you will see it all on camera, on video.
01:33So on a hidden camera, you will see and hear shopkeepers willing to sell large quantities of ammonium nitrate,
01:40NPK, fuel oil, all of this is in gross violation of rules, rules of 2012 that incidentally were updated in 2021.
01:47But the rules sadly remain confined only to the rule book.
01:54The question remains, what is the Haryana police doing?
01:57What is the administration doing?
01:59The suspected doctor's terror module, they were able to procure more than 2600 kilograms of NPK
02:05and 1000 kilograms of ammonium nitrate for multiple terror attacks they had planned across the country.
02:12Now, India Today team, led by our undercover reporter Nitin Jain, we get you much more in this special, exclusive investigation.
02:33Investigators probing the Redford car bombing in Delhi
02:36claimed that white-collar terrorists had managed amassed 2600 kilograms of NPK
02:43and more than 1000 kilograms of ammonium nitrate from the villages around the Alfala University in Haryana's Faridabad district.
02:55In the aftermath, probe agencies have sealed the sales records of fertilizer shops in Nu, Sona and Faridabad.
03:02But while the open sale of chemical fertilizers is prohibited, several outlets are selling them by fudging their records.
03:12Perhaps unaware that fertilizer chemicals like ammonium nitrate and urea are deadly when rigged with an IED.
03:20India Today's team went undercover to expose such outlets in Delhi, NCR and Haryana.
03:25We were surprised to find that within days of the Delhi blast, fertilizers like urea and NPK, fuel oil and explosives used in mining were easily available.
03:38These are the same ingredients used in the November 10th Redford blast.
03:43This is Suresh Fertilizer's store in Haryana's Akbarpur, Bharota, where we enquired about DAP and NPK fertilizers from shopkeeper Ritesh.
04:01Shopkeeper Ritesh showed us sacks of NPK to win our trust.
04:16Shopkeeper Ritesh showed us sacks of NPK to win our trust.
04:46We clarified to Ritesh that we did not have an Aadhaar card and that we needed to take the 20 bags of fertilizer to Delhi.
04:59Despite this, Ritesh struck a deal with us saying that he would show the sale against his own land holdings.
05:16We went to Sonepath in Haryana where we met Chirag who runs the Shiv agricultural store located in the Kundalini area.
05:43The pattern here was the same, chemical fertilisers being sold openly.
05:50We told Chirag very clearly that we are from Delhi and that the fertilisers have to be taken to a farmhouse there.
06:19Chirag spoke to someone on the phone and he did not ask for any address or ID proof from us.
06:49If there is no problem, there will be no problem.
06:55Basai village in the new district of Haryana.
06:57The same area from where the doctor terrorist Mohammed Umar had purchased fertilisers for making his car bomb.
07:03Here we met Pappu, an expert in blasting rocks in the Aravalli hills.
07:09We told him that we needed 5 kgs of explosives to blast rocks.
07:14Pappu described the properties of this explosive powder and also how it is used in stone quarries.
07:35However, the same thing is that we had to take as a lot of iron to destroy the stone quarries.
07:45We have a ton of steans that are used in stone quarries.
07:49the other ingredient needed for
08:19an improvised explosive device is fuel oil we struck a deal to buy loose
08:24petrol at a fuel pump near basai village in new district
08:31we just showed you how easy it is to go around shopping for all the ingredients
08:53that make up a lethal crude bomb
08:59these unregulated markets of daily ncr pose a direct threat to the security of
09:04the country for a few thousand rupees one can easily procure urea and became
09:10ammonium nitrate mining explosives and lose petrol anytime
09:16anywhere with nitin jain and rajesh khatri it's a special investigation report for india today
09:24stellar investigation by nitin jain and rajesh khatri but just imagine weeks after the red
09:35four blast there's a probe that's currently underway into where and how these radical islamist terror
09:42module of doctors from jammu and kashmir uttar pradesh and haryana were able to procure this
09:46bomb making material it's a crude bomb making material it's been used before in our country
09:51it's now being used again but how easily of this is this available
09:54so even now even today if another module wants they can rig together an id with this material that's
10:02available off the shelf the question is is it laxity on the part of the police the administration
10:08or are we just ram bharose is there nothing that can be done because look at those shopkeepers and
10:16hear those shopkeepers who are willing to fudge documents so on paper everything will be on order
10:20but then truly they're willing to sell you anything you want if the price is right so are we walking
10:26into a terror trap eyes wide shut joining me on this india first special broadcast is dr wikram singh
10:33uh he's dealt with these improvised explosive device bombs in the past as former dgp of uttar
10:38pradesh pk jain is former additional director general of police maharashtra again someone who's dealt
10:44uh with radical islamist terror very very closely and i want to begin by asking you dr singh ammonium
10:51nitrate based improvised explosive devices they were used for for terror for the curse of terror that
10:58bled us in early 2000s remember post battle house encounter when one of the modules was neutralized
11:04but despite these 2012 rules the 2021 updated rules just see how easily all this material can be
11:11procured even today so who is failing here the police the administration who's asleep at the wheel sir
11:19uh good evening god of dear good evening mr jain to your simple question i would say it's a cumulative
11:24failure in fact all the agencies those who are supposed to regulate those who are supposed to
11:29check those who are supposed to have surveillance nobody has done his job in a scale of one is to ten
11:34nobody gets more than one out of ten we have failed miserably and i must compliment netin and rajesh
11:41for coming out with a very very sensational expose indeed we are quoting the recipe of disaster and this
11:48is nothing but unmitigated disaster the ease with which you could procure all these items
11:53to fabricate a cute d do-it-yourself bomb well it is a scary situation i would say that it calls for
11:59it is not only a wake-up call it is something that we have to put our act together and ensure
12:04that everything about these excuses the basic bottom line is that the same purchase and movement
12:09is should be traceable it is brought on gps enabled vehicles it is stored with an inventory control
12:14and here you have the shopkeeper who's more than willing and eager to sell fudge records and pass on
12:21at a premium or a consideration then the mining explosives to the ammonium nitrate sale you very
12:26rightly mentioned the 2012 rules as also updated 2021 you can have any number of rules but if they
12:33are loosely implemented and with the element of laxity and corruption well there is no point in having
12:39rules and laws that are not implemented faithfully and meticulously therefore this is very worrisome
12:46yes go on sir please complete your point sir very much it is very worrisome i would say that the police
12:51and the control departments the magistracy they need to wake up and the intelligence also keep a
12:56close watch and the surveillance and you also mentioned that without any identity papers or the
13:01adhar card it was being passed off not only the ammonium nitrate but npk and much less said the better
13:08about the mining explosive therefore all the ingredients are very much there it is only who would like to
13:13fabricate that one and misuse it therefore everybody has a task to do today and then i feel that in the
13:19the next 24 hours there should be a road map a blueprint and an action plan ready so that there
13:25is no misuse of these sensitive items to fabricate another bomb you know what is very worrying mr jain
13:32and since both of you gentlemen you've dealt with ieds we've all seen uh you know severed limbs after an
13:40ied attack in different parts of the country whether the pressure cooker bombs or tiffin box bombs uh
13:46bombs on scooters motorcycles wherever they may be it's very easy to rig them mr jain who has failed
13:53here in your view that india today reporters undercover reporters nitin jain and rajesh khatri
13:58were able to procure loose petrol uh explosives uh ammonium nitrate npk uh should they have wanted
14:08ball bearings nuts and bolts and screws in any amount is this the failure of the beat constable
14:13the local chalky in charge the sho the civil administration where would the buck stop because
14:19all the ministers have z plus category securities all the top uh police officers have cavalcades of
14:25security it's the common man who's vulnerable yeah namaskar thank you very much dr namaskar
14:33sir the problem here does not lie with the uh only the beat constable everything eventually stops with
14:39the police unfortunately all these things are regulated by different regulators we have the uh the
14:46explosive department it's a government of india department which controls the gelatin sticks which
14:51controls uh explosives per se then we have the local police we have the magistracy and for the urea etc
14:59we have got agriculture department so a number of departments come into play now i believe that
15:05very precious little is done on the ground to check the uninhibited use and purchase and sale of these
15:13explosives loosely available in the market and openly available in the market i was long ago i was deputy
15:20commissioner of police in nagpur that time the uh you know the militancy the terrorism had struck our
15:26country very badly and also the nationalism because most of our vehicles which were blown in the forest
15:31were all blown with 100 kgs of uh you know gelatin sticks buried under the ground so we were trying to
15:38find the source of these gelatin sticks now you know people who come to the villages to dig a well for you
15:44the people who want to like this gentleman papu who wants to blast the rocks uh in a in a in a on a
15:51so people like them they it is so easy for them to procure not only the gelatin sticks but also the
15:56primers which are used to blast them it is easy so view you find suddenly find that on a on in a small
16:01vehicle you have some you know 20 30 kilos of gelatin sticks and you have all these fuses which are lying
16:06with them so uh we had at that time suggested to the explosive department that you frame a policy as to how
16:12these explosive will be going to the last mile that last mile connectivity and last mile supervision is
16:17not there the first stage is there but then from second to third third to fourth and the last mile
16:23user there's no control whatsoever that is one second was the gelatin and all these explosives are stored
16:30in a small uh unit which is outside the city it's basically outside the living areas so which is very
16:39easy to break in and you can have quintals and tons of this material in one heist you can have tons of
16:46this material available to any person who wants to you know create havoc in this country so as the
16:52doctor has very rightly said it is high time that we wake up to the threat of anything here it is ammonium
16:58nitrate it is urea it is uh you know it is uh oil it is the petrol which is available and we must
17:04make an example and let's not forget the judiciary in most of the cases which were made in maharashtra
17:09where the guys were caught with the you know 100 150 200 gelatin sticks and fuses they were let off
17:16very easily within a day or two he will procure bail and go about his business again so it was all
17:20the police would do their job and everything would come to knots because the guy was out on bail within a
17:25day or two so let's not forget the entire machinery the enforcement department of course is responsible
17:30but at the same time we must educate our prosecutors and the judges that's an interesting point you make
17:36you know because the enemies of our country they operate as a team and they operate so well whether
17:44there would be a doctor from jammu and kashmir or a doctor from uttar pradesh they may not know each other
17:49earlier but there is a common cause that seems to unite them whether it's a radicalization at a certain
17:55mosque you know uh dr wikram singh or uh or the misuse of their religion and this is very worrisome
18:03but are we failing as a society because why would a shopkeeper who knows that his own parents or his
18:11own family could be equally vulnerable the next time because i very strongly believe in karma why would
18:17he be willing to sell you know all of this without documentation just to make a little more money
18:24he's making others so unsafe so are we failing as a society is this lack of education sir
18:32lack of education and lack of awareness and also a sense of duty my esteemed colleague mr pk jain has in
18:38fact very rightly said that the various coordinated various departments that are responsible for the
18:46storage movement and sale and storage of these explosives then has to be a proper coordination
18:52and there should be a coordination at the district level to ensure that licensing traceability
18:57accountability security measures movement and tracking and import and export restrictions are
19:02faithfully implemented but to your first question i think a sense of duty is also very much required
19:07if everything is there a sense of duty is not there we continue to sell ourselves for 13 pieces
19:12of gold well that is the tragedy of the character that needs to be reinforced that before you know
19:16what is happening do not think that death will befall your neighbor it can befall anyone and more
19:22importantly as you said that karma seeks and like a scud missile will hound the person who has sold off
19:29his conscience for a few few pieces of gold and therefore absolutely reinforcement of the rule of law
19:34as also educating the shopkeepers proper surveillance material also an exemplary action you find
19:41somebody who's guilty the courts of law must also award exemplary punishment because punishment is often
19:48a deterrence if not always because i want to i want our viewers to know what's the legal position on
19:54legal control of ammonium nitrate stay with me gentlemen what is the legal position on this now there were
20:01rules that were brought in first in 2012 remember our countries had a series of these ied blasts
20:09when we were growing up there was a time when you were told look under your seat if you see an
20:14if you see a toy do not pick it up it could be an ied you see a tiffin box or a cycle do not go close
20:20it could be an ied especially during festivals so rules were brought in there were regulations that were
20:26put in place for these tiffin bombs or scooter bombs or motorcycle bombs when this is mixed with ammonium
20:33nitrate the explosive now the rules are up to 30 metric tons it needs the approval of the district
20:39magistrate to permit anything beyond 30 metric tons now when you have these petroleum and safety then
20:46again there are other organizations so there is uh the peso that moves in what is peso it is the petroleum and
20:53explosive safety organization their approvals are required so they monitor from the stage of
20:59manufacturing to storage to transport they're also supposed to track sales unfortunately this
21:05tracking of sales is where the system is completely collapsing because unauthorized anfo or ammonium nitrate
21:15fuel oil now the possession of all of this unless that's with due paperwork it is illegal but very
21:23clearly mr jain papers may be in place it's on ground it is not being followed so in your appreciation and
21:31your uh you know decades long experience in dealing with this is it impossible to check this look at how easily
21:37the doctors with their white lab coats and stethoscope were so easily able to illegally procure uh
21:45thousands of kilograms of uh of this smuggled and brought illegally explosives bought illegally from
21:51these stone uh queries so is it impossible to check this sir it is not impossible to check it's only that
21:58everybody has to do his job which is asking for too much in our country because people get away so lightly
22:04by not doing their job a person who does his job we say in bureaucracy will be the guy who will be
22:09caught and hammered because he does his job and wherever he makes a mistake he's caught there are n
22:15number of people who look the other way either for some consideration or sheer dereliction of duty
22:20and who don't get punished so the regulator in our system is the weakest link it is not difficult at
22:27all the regulator would know as to where the urea is going and yet he turns a blind eye to the sale of
22:33this product this kind of you know this kind of surprise rate can be conducted in any shop by any
22:38regulator and you send the message down by taking very strict action against one or two individuals
22:43and the whole system corrects i mean i will not say the whole system but 80 90 correction does take
22:48place people will still keep on doing these wrong activities but the message has to go across down the
22:54line that the action will be taken against those who are caught and who breach the law which doesn't
22:59happen unfortunately so but and sadly if the go on sir complete your point sir i said if the intentions
23:07are okay if the intentions are right then these things can be enforced very very easily without
23:12any difficulty at all i can vouch say that thank you so much sir you know while i completely agree with
23:19you the way to hell is paved with good intentions as we see in this particular case i mean i'm surprised i'm
23:24shocked uh we are also joined by mr ranbir sharma former inspector general of ariana police mr sharma i'm
23:30shocked how easily ied making equipment is still so easily available in new in sonipat in faridabad and so
23:40many other places despite the red fort attack we would have thought that after that there would be
23:45tightening of screws so are we to believe we are living ram bharose in india because when doctors and
23:52engineers white collar terrorist strike we can only suffer the consequences prevention doesn't seem to
23:57be happening sir i agree with you because uh we are also all surprised ki after this episode the police
24:08should have very very alert and i think they have not taken that thing seriously agree what is happening
24:15and why these things and why these things are uh in the area of the dhoj or a new or near fridavad area
24:23actually what happened now we in our kisan area wherever the farmers they used to keep all these urea
24:32and nitrosins and all these uh fertilizer for their daily uses now these new module it has revealed ki be
24:43now it can be treated in the rdx also in a explosive also earlier it was not known to the police also as
24:53well as the other people also only few people who are knowing ki be this uh this this fertilizer can also
25:01be used in the uh explosive also that is why that
25:05now i think after the episode after this blast of delhi they must have taken very seriously all the
25:15things and all the shop okay so the question remains at this point of time dr wikram saying do we need
25:23new rules do we need to modify existing rules how does one ensure that you know as mr sharma was
25:30pointing out that farmers are not harassed farmers take the material they require in the quantity they
25:36require but terrorists don't take advantage of this
25:39very true mr i would say that my team panelists have made very pertinent points but how to ensure
25:49that there are any number of rules and laws but faithful implementation of the rules of law also
25:55needs to be ensured it is good to have small number of rules that are faithfully implemented than
26:00to have large number of rules that are loosely implemented the the problem is that all the speakers
26:06have mentioned that the implementation of laws and rules needs to be reinforced surprise checks
26:11inventory control and also the mandatory service has to be there so that the movement to the ultimate
26:16destination is tracked identity papers are taken up the the surveillance and the inspections
26:21should be meaningful and not just by way of just doing it for the sake of doing them
26:26therefore i would say that the inspections the coordination between various agencies as mr pk jenny
26:31very lucidly explains that needs to be ensured and a test surveillance and a test drive
26:36and a test also of a mock purchase of these exclusive needs to be done so as to we see the ground
26:42reality whether anything has changed in the 10 15 days or we are back to square one we'll have learned
26:47nothing from the tragedy you know our investigation would lead you to believe that nothing really has
26:53changed on ground the ease with which our reporters and imagine these are reporters they're not
27:00either going there with an evil intention or have a you know bomb making plot like those radical islamist
27:05terrorists those that that module of doctors did but imagine how easy is it to procure all this
27:11material so what is as many have asked us what is anfo or ammonium nitrate fuel oil these bombs as
27:20experts tell us it's uh basically 94 ammonium nitrate and about six percent uh fuel oil fertilizer is a very
27:28strong oxidizer but it doesn't explode on its own so it needs not just a fuel oil mix but it also needs a
27:34a detonator some explosive that will set it off ensure that there's very high energy high heat
27:41uh that that would trigger a massive explosion that is how these ieds are rigged to perform uh and
27:49stronger the bigger the detonator the more powerful the blast depends on the kind of fuel oil uh that's
27:55been used and terrorists in the past and unfortunately we've seen the deadly impact in the cases that we've
28:01reported in the past they use ball bearings and nuts and bolts and screws because the intensity
28:08with which uh these ball bearings then uh shoot out in multiple directions and if they pace your eye your
28:14forehead your chest your hands uh with the screws that pierce your body they're like thousands of bullets
28:19flying in every direction and dr vikram saying uh this is what makes these ids extremely dangerous sadly
28:26extremely easy to rig in your view if you were to give a solution what would that solution be you
28:33know three actionable points i would say there are no shortcut solutions or cut and dried solutions
28:39but the fact you very rightly mentioned all of us have been privy to the fact that purchase of ball
28:44bearings sharp nails nuts and bolts that should not go without being in the cognizance of the police
28:50department secondly the sale impulses to be regulated and anything this is known as sars suspicious
28:56activity reporting system that every police station needs to who is buying fertilizer in large
29:02quantities storing them without and trying to conceal his identity moving them to a destination and does
29:08not have the appropriate length and breadth of his farmhouse so that it is unnatural for a person to
29:14store as ammonium nitrate or other fertilizer that is not commensurate to his land holding as also
29:21purchase of simultaneously ball bearing sharp nails nails and other such material and also the criminal
29:28antecedents of those and also if the facial recognition software is used as along with ai i feel
29:34we would have done a good job not fail proof not foolproof but to a very great extent i think we should
29:39have done a reasonably satisfactory job to contain and mitigate this malady mr jain uh you know use of
29:48artificial intelligence that plays a much bigger role when there's more automation uh your appreciation
29:54the way forward the solutions given the constraints the police and the administration work under
30:01see i i think in all the entire scenario the intelligence collection it plays an extremely important
30:08role and quick action on the spot action see in this particular case if the concerned sp there in jnk
30:16would not have been alive to the situation and would not have sent his team to probe around as to who
30:21was putting these posters uh you know these posters uh of bycotting or taking action against the
30:26threatening their security forces there had you not taken that action probably this uh this entire module
30:32would not have been exposed and after that the kind of uh and after that the gathering of intelligence
30:38you know there are for every blast that has taken place a blast has taken place in the capital after
30:43i don't know how many years so now the there are thousand other blasts which have been prevented by
30:48only intelligence collection and taking action on the actionable intelligence so i think along with
30:53what dr wikram singh has said you know gathering of intelligence making that agency extremely strong and
30:59having the latest technology possible is another one of the areas which you know the system can look at
31:06mr sharma as former inspector general of the haryana police and you know the constraints haryana police works
31:12under uh your view of the problem and the solution how does one improve the system to prevent the next
31:20id from being rigged together because this is colossal while intelligence success in jnk it's total
31:27intelligence failure in haryana and uttar pradesh the manner in which these doctors were able to
31:32operate in and around alfala university uh it just shows police they were walking with their eyes wide shut
31:38so
31:56ھوا ہے نائٹ روزنز اور دوسرا ایکسپولیسیو بنانے کے لیے
32:00ھو بھی نہ ہی کسانوں کے لیے تھا اور نہ ہی پولیس کے لیے تھا
32:05تیسرا جو ابھی بات سامنے آرہے ہیں انٹیلیجنس کی
32:08انٹیلیجنس فیلیہ پور رہا ہے کیونکہ سات تاریخ کو جس دن
32:13فرید آباد کے اندر یہ لڑکا پگڑا گیا ہے آدیل اور اس کے
32:17بات یہ فرید آباد میں آ گئے ہیں اس کے بات پولیس کی جو
32:20ुचूप हुई है और खासकर दिल्ली पुलिस की जो चूप यह दोनों की कि भी उन्होंने सारी पुलिस को अलट नहीं किया और वो दिल्ली के अंदर बंब ब्लास्ट हो गया जहां तक अगला जो सुरक्षा का वो में पॉइंट यह है कि भी आपको नंबर एक सबसे पहले ज
32:50उनको चेकिंग के लिए डालना पड़ेगा कि भी आपके पास जो चीज आ रही है बगार लाइसन्स और बगार ऑथर्टी के जैसे डॉक्तर की प्रिस्किर्शन के बगार वो कोई चीज वहां नहीं हो यूज हो सकती दुकानों के उपर उसी परकार से उसको नहीं करना चाह
33:20चेकिंग में रखना पड़ेगा और इस परकार की जो यूनस्टी और मंदर से और मस्जिदें वहां पी भी लगा पुलिस की चेकिंग होनी पड़ेगी तब ही जा कि यह डिटरेंट होए पाएगा नहीं तो फिर कोई न कोई धमाका किसी वक्त भी आ सकता है पुलिस को चु
33:50Do you agree?
33:51You are a failure of intelligence that if so many doctors were being radicalize over a period of time
33:55the Maulbi was arrested much later and that was after as you very widely pointed out, the beat constable and then the SP found out about who were putting up these posters
34:04but should there be a closer scrutiny on these madrasahs and masjids sir?
34:09See unfortunately my experience has been that its a very closed door kind of a thing,
34:15it is not that easy to penetrate what is going on at a religious place or a madrasa or a mosque
34:23for the simple reason that you see most of the riots take place after the Friday namaz
34:28and the kind of takrir that is made there in the masjid at that point of time
34:32which infuriates and which instigates a lot of people to come out on the road
34:35and start some kind of a riot, it always happens mostly on Friday.
34:40And it is in a closed group.
34:43So penetrating that group can only be technologically done.
34:48Individuals, it is extremely impossible.
34:50We have tried it many times.
34:51It doesn't happen.
34:52So technologically, it has to be done that we somehow get into their system
34:56and find out as to what exactly are they planning to do.
34:58Otherwise, a few individuals meeting in a hospital, meeting in a mosque, meeting in a madrasa,
35:03it does not draw the kind of attention that everybody expects the police to do.
35:08I mean, it is an unfortunate scenario, but it is a fact of life.
35:11It is the ground reality.
35:12So I think we have to find ways and means of cracking this kind of a thing.
35:17You know, now somebody carrying two sacks of ammonium nitrate in a house
35:22and making 10 trips over a period of time, it doesn't draw anybody's attention.
35:26We become so objective to the people living next door.
35:29We don't even bother who's doing what.
35:30So now in this kind of a scenario, expecting the police to crack that, you know,
35:353,000 kilos of ammonium nitrate was collected, it is too much to expect.
35:41But yes, intelligence has to be gathered, action has to be taken.
35:44And once we get the intelligence, then these teams have to move very, very fast.
35:48Absolutely, and it has to be done without fear of favor, irrespective of people who may cry phobia of any religion.
35:55India must very emphatically say this is not phobia of any religion.
35:59The only effort, Dr. Vikram Singh, is go after terrorists and terror has no religion.
36:05So there is no question of any phobia, evidence-based prosecution and the harshest possible action against the guilty
36:13should be the only rule to be followed, irrespective of what an enabling ecosystem may say, Dr. Vikram Singh.
36:19The last 30 seconds on this part of the show, sir.
36:23Well, sir, Gaurav ji, India first, always and every time.
36:26And to that extent, I would say that cultivation of sources to gather information from mass and the Friday khutbah is perfectly doable.
36:33I have two very esteemed and seasoned and experienced co-fanalysts and they would bear me out.
36:38Where there is a will, there is a way.
36:39Get the informers, get the information and get the sources, develop sources.
36:44And when you have actionable intelligence, that is the game changer.
36:47And I am sure wherever there is a success story, there is an informer at every khutbah that is vitriolic and that is menacing or malicious.
36:55That has to be informed to the district officers.
36:58And then you take preemptive action and also take precautions so that nothing disastrous ever happens.
37:05It is perfectly doable.
37:05Oh, absolutely.
37:06Go after those who give these takreers.
37:08Those who give these takreers.
37:09You have that on video.
37:11Take action against them.
37:12Produce them in courts of law and lock them up for as long as possible, as long as law permits them.
37:16We will track the story very, very closely.
37:18It has to be India first.
37:20Indians have to be kept safe.
37:21That is the only dharm that the agencies need to now follow.
37:26India first.
37:27Now, I want to shift focus to the other big story we are tracking here on India today.
37:31There is now a battle royale in Jammu and Kashmir over admission to the Shri Mata Vaishnodevi Institute of Medical Excellence.
37:38So, of the 50 seats that have been allocated to Vaishnodevi Institute, 42 on merit have been taken by Muslim students from Kashmir.
37:47The remaining 8, 7 to Hindus and 1 to Sikh from Jammu.
37:51Now, some devotees and some in the state BJP, they are up in arms saying the institute is run by donation that is given by Hindu pilgrims of Mata Vaishnodevi Shrine and should educate Hindu students on priority.
38:03Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah hit back saying, words to the effect, if Muslims are hounded out of these institutions, then don't be surprised if they land up in places like Al-Fala.
38:17What is the implication?
38:18We discussed, but first this report on the arrests that have happened so far in this case and the controversy over admissions.
38:26Listen in.
38:39The Redfoot blast probe now points to a sinister hospital terror network.
38:47From Al-Fala Hospital, ward boy Soeb emerges as a key facilitator.
38:52Sources close to the investigation allege, he gave shelter, phones and safe houses and cover to suicide bomber Dr. Umar An-Nabi.
39:02And now this terror trail has triggered a political storm.
39:05From Al-Fala, the row has reached Kashmir.
39:21Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah sparked a fiery debate on faith, admissions and radicalization.
39:27While challenging protests over Muslim admissions at Shree Mata Vaishnodevi Institute of Medical Excellence,
39:35he said that if Muslims are blocked here, then don't accuse them of being radicalized elsewhere.
39:57His remarks ignited instant backlash.
40:12He wants to bring up this debate on his core narrative.
40:19In which core narrative, they provoke the children of Muslims to radicalization, separatism, anti-nationalism.
40:30Are they justifying the Redfoot blast of Delhi's Redfoot blasts?
40:34That there will be a doctor from there, he will do any wrong work.
40:37What began as a terror investigation in Delhi has now spiraled into a political flashpoint in Kashmir.
40:48From hospital corridors at Al-Fala to the political landscape of Kashmir,
40:53this probe has sparked a debate on faith, education and radicalization.
41:00With Arvind Ojha, Bureau Report, India Today.
41:07The battle lines are very clearly drawn between the BJP and the National Conference.
41:11Joining me on India first is R.S. Pathanya, BJP MLA from Jammu and Kashmir.
41:15And Imran Nabi Dar is the spokesperson of NC.
41:17Mr. Pathanya, if Shree Mata Vaishnodevi Institution is not a minority institution,
41:23what is the problem, sir?
41:24If 42 out of 50 seats have gone to Muslim students, purely on merit.
41:28What is the problem, sir?
41:37Mr. Pathanya, can you hear me?
41:41Give me a moment as we re-establish that link with Mr. Pathanya.
41:44Imran Nabi Dar, is it being implied that if Muslim students study at Al-Fala,
41:50they will get radicalized?
41:52How do you look at what Chief Minister Umar Abdullah indicated?
41:55If Muslim students go to Faridabad and get radicalized,
41:58who will take responsibility?
41:59So, Garo, first of all, we need to understand the context in which he made that statement.
42:07The context is obviously that there has been N number of statements over the last few days about Al-Fala.
42:15There has been questionable statements about some medical colleges in outside India,
42:23like Kashmiri students, when they opt for MBBS courses, they go to Bangladesh, they go to Turkey.
42:32So, when there are some players in the country who are questioning why Kashmiri students are going to these places.
42:40So, it is obvious when a situation like this happens in our own country, in our own state,
42:46then where will our students go?
42:48Where will they have every right to study?
42:53They have every right.
42:54These particular students who went to, who got an admission, they went there not because of any charity.
43:00I mean, they passed neat exam and they qualified it.
43:04I don't understand.
43:05It is spiteful that BJP is criminalizing education also.
43:10I mean, on a day…
43:10Mr. Pathanya, respond at Mata Vaishnudevi Institute.
43:15It is not a minority institution.
43:18If 42 out of 50 seats have gone to Muslim students on merit, what is the problem, sir?
43:22Where is the problem?
43:25Sir, I think I will be allowed uninterrupted just two minutes.
43:29Go on.
43:29First of all, we all, we all, all, and everybody, every religion, every sect, every color,
43:36there is a right to religion, which is enshrined under the constitution of India.
43:39And secondly, every religious group, may it be a minority, Hindus are a minority in Javan Kashmir.
43:46They are enshrined with a fundamental right to set up educational institutions of their size and to promote and propagate their own religion.
43:54One part.
43:55Thirdly, this Mata Vaishnudevi Shrine Board, this was being governed by Dharma Trust.
44:01In 1986 and then 1988, Javan Kashmir Sarkar, perpetually the National Conference Sarkar, using its brute majority, they usurped the entire control over this Mata Vaishnudevi Shrine Board and ultimately in the 1999, this Mata Vaishnudevi University Act also.
44:18So these are acts of a legislature by virtue, the donations, the offerings, and virtually the properties and governments and management, everything of Shri Mata Vaishnudevi Shrine Board has been taken over by the Javan Kashmir Sarkar.
44:31Now, there's a difference.
44:33It's not a state-run institution.
44:35It's not a center-run institution.
44:36With all respect and with all responsibility to all my non-Hindu partners across the country and across the world.
44:43Secondly, it's not a minority-run institution also because minority institutions are specifically aided by Bharat Sarkar.
44:52We don't receive even a penny of aid from Bharat Sarkar or from Javan Kashmir Sarkar.
44:57So this Mata Vaishnudevi University, again, with all respect, this university is being managed, being contained simply by the offerings and the donations of the devotees.
45:07Please, our only submission, very, very humble submission, that please, please do not disturb the faith and the devotion of the donators, of the pilgrims, of the devotees.
45:18Our very, very humble submission that the authority, the integrity, the history, the culture of this shrine needs to be maintained.
45:26Very simple, very sweet.
45:27Okay, Imran Namindar?
45:28I think there are some facts which need to be put in front of the people.
45:42What Mr. Pathania said is some things he said which I do not agree with as far as the donation is concerned.
45:50Sri Mata Vaishnudevi University gets the granted aid from the JNK government.
45:57This year only, they got 25 crore rupees.
46:00And this particular college is affiliated with Sri Mata Vaishnudevi University.
46:06So when he says that it is not getting funds from the government, he is absolutely wrong.
46:10He is lying.
46:11So I can show you the...
46:12Don't distort the facts, please.
46:14Please don't distort the facts.
46:17Please don't distort.
46:18Don't tell false lies.
46:19Don't allow me to speak.
46:20I have the facts with you.
46:20Don't tell false lies.
46:21I have the facts with me.
46:22I can give you the facts.
46:23You know, you talk about Sri Mata Vaishnudevi Act.
46:26I want to understand, Imran Nabi Dar.
46:29I want to ask you, Imran Nabi Dar.
46:30No, Imran Nabi Dar, hear me out.
46:32Hear me out.
46:32Should educated, enlightened Muslims also not ponder why a paramedic at a Naoga Masjid would radicalize young doctors
46:40instead of saying, either we study in this Mata Vaishnudevi shrine or don't blame students if they get radicalized in places like Alphala.
46:50Why should students get radicalized?
46:52You don't...
46:53Why would students get radicalized in the first place?
46:56Shouldn't de-radicalization effort also come from within the community?
47:01I agree with you.
47:02I agree with you.
47:03And I think it is something that the society needs to work on.
47:08I agree with you.
47:09What happened with the Redfoot blast, it is unfortunate.
47:14It could not have...
47:15It has shocked us.
47:16No, it's downright sinister.
47:17It's not unfortunate.
47:18It's evil.
47:19It is evil, sir.
47:20My point is...
47:21My point is...
47:23My point is...
47:24That when these students...
47:25Why are we trying to connect...
47:27I mean, what Umar Saab said...
47:28He said, as I mentioned earlier in my initial comment...
47:32He made that comment...
47:32He said, if they go to Alphala, they will get radicalized.
47:35The word should that effect...
47:37Why should they get radicalized at Alphala?
47:39Why should Alphala be an institution of radicalization?
47:41I will tell you.
47:43I will tell you.
47:43I don't want to name the prominent journalist...
47:47Editor of a news agency.
47:50In an interview.
47:51She was discussing this...
47:53In a very frank interview with a defense analyst.
47:58Sir, I don't want to go to random anecdotal evidence.
48:01This is far more serious for this country.
48:04No, no.
48:05I'm not going into...
48:06You know, anecdotal of what some journalists may have said.
48:09This is very serious, sir.
48:10You need to talk about what it means.
48:12Mr. Pathania, I also want to understand from you.
48:16Look, let us understand.
48:17We are a secular country.
48:18Mr. Pathania, we are a secular country.
48:20We cannot discriminate against meritorious student on grounds of religion.
48:24There is merit in Omar Abdullah.
48:26In Omar Abdullah.
48:28If these aspirants go to Bangladesh, for example.
48:31Or Turkey.
48:32God forbid they will return highly radicalized from there.
48:35Show them the richness of what Mata Vaishnu Devi institution stands for.
48:39Inspire them by our culture.
48:41Let them study here.
48:42And know what real India is all about.
48:45What the Sanatana civilization is all about.
48:47Gaurab, you are very true.
48:49This is what the essence and the edifice of the Sanatana civilization also.
48:53And the Indian constitution is also reflective of the same color.
48:57Of the same content too.
48:59But my respectful submission is, sir.
49:01That Hindus are a minority in Jammu and Kashmir.
49:05Though not declared.
49:06But enlisted minority are in Jammu and Kashmir.
49:08This shrine.
49:09This shrine is particularly the deities being maintained, being offered, being devotions
49:13by only by the Hindus across the world.
49:15Very simple.
49:16So this is not a state-run institution where secularism has to be practiced.
49:19With all respect to responsibility by Biden.
49:21And even if, let us suppose, if there is a Hazrat Baal shrine in Kashmir.
49:26And they say that we will set up a medical college and a tin number of seats will be
49:31reserved for Muslims.
49:31We have nothing to do with it.
49:33So our submission remains, sir.
49:34Then take that status.
49:35You have usurped the shrine goal.
49:36Take that status.
49:37You have usurped the Mata Vaishnu Devi institution in the university also.
49:39And now you say, this is Hindu versus Muslim.
49:43As you see, what Mr. Omar says.
49:45Show them the richness of our culture.
49:47Plaster the place with our culture so that everyone knows what the Sanatana civilization is.
49:51is all about.
49:52But Imran Nabi Dar, don't you agree, sir, that reform has to come from within the community?
49:57It cannot be covered under some garb of, you know, phobia of a religion or when questions
50:02are asked, sir.
50:03I agree with you.
50:03Reform has to come now, sir.
50:06I agree with you.
50:07But that is a debate for some time else.
50:10But let me respond to what Mr. Pathanya said about the Hazrat Baal shrine.
50:16We have an Awkaaf, we have a Waqq board that is working right now in Kashmir.
50:23And under the Waqq Act, there are two universities that are working in Jumun-Pathir.
50:27One is the Islamic University of Science and Technology.
50:29And another is Baba Gulam Shah Baatia University.
50:33And these two universities were also established under an action in the assembly.
50:40But nowhere, these are universities that were started with the money from the shrine, from
50:46Astans across the country.
50:47Let's have equal rules in India for all.
50:49Let's have same rules for all.
50:51You know, I've run out of time on this part of the show.
50:54We will have this show later because this is a very serious issue and we must have a bigger
50:58show because let's have equal rules for all and very transparent rules for all.
51:03There cannot be any special rules in this country.
51:06Perhaps the time has come for that debate.
51:08Because look, we are flanked by danger on all sides and we cannot be fighting within our
51:14country.
51:1517 years ago, this day, Mumbai bled.
51:1810 radical Islamist terrorists from Pakistan, 10 Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorists, they came and
51:24they killed indiscriminately.
51:27More than 170 people were killed.
51:29Now, sadly, the effort was also to show that and pass that off as Hindu terror with these
51:35terrorists, Pakistani radical Islamist Muslim terrorists.
51:38They were wearing a kalawa and had Hindu names and identity cards.
51:42So that's the kind of evil that India is up against.
51:45That is what Pakistan wants right now to target India with.
51:49Thank God for Tukaram Ombile because it was Tukaram Ombile that saved us.
51:55I want to leave you with this tribute that India pays to our braves and those who lost their
52:00lives in 2611 Mumbai terror attacks.
52:03Never again.
52:04Never forgive.
52:05Never forget.
52:05Never forget.
52:06Never forget.
52:07Never forget.
52:08Never forget.
52:09Never forget.
52:10Never forget.
52:11Never forget.
52:12Never forget.
52:13Never forget.
52:14Never forget.
52:15Never forget.
52:16Never forget.
52:17Never forget.
52:18Never forget.
52:19Never forget.
52:20Never forget.
52:21Never forget.
52:22Never forget.
52:23Never forget.
52:24Never forget.
52:25Never forget.
52:26Never forget.
52:27Never forget.
52:28Never forget.
52:29Never forget.
52:30Never forget.
52:31Never forget.
52:32Never forget.
52:33Never forget.
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