On India First, anchor Gaurav Sawant discusses the mystery surrounding Imran Khan's location with former Indian DIA Director, Lt. Gen. Kamaljeet Singh Dhillon. 'If Asim Muneer had his way, Imran Khan would have been dead a long time ago,' states Lt. Gen. Dhillon. The show covers the heated debate in Pakistan's Senate, where PTI Senator Faizal Javed accused the government of denying Khan basic rights, while Minister of State for Interior Talal Chaudhry called him a 'VVIP prisoner'. Lt. Gen. Dhillon analyses the power struggle between Khan and Pakistan's army chief, Field Marshal Asim Munir, the role of social media in Khan's enduring popularity compared to past leaders like the Bhuttos, and the potential for public uprising. The discussion also touches upon unverified Afghan media reports about Khan's death and the internal dynamics of the Pakistan military.
00:00Big question on everyone's lips, even in Pakistan now is, where is Imran Khan?
00:05Is he still in Adiyala Jail in Rawalpindi? Has he been shifted to another jail?
00:11There was a heated argument in Pakistan's Senate.
00:14So Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf Senator Faizal Javed, he accused the Shahbaz Sharif government of denying Imran Khan even the basic rights to meet his family, to meet his lawyers, to be able to eat home-cooked food.
00:29He said, a former Prime Minister of Pakistan, a former World Cup-winning captain, does not have even the basic human rights in Pakistan.
00:38The Shahbaz Sharif government has hit right back.
00:41Minister of State for Interior, Talal Chaudhary, he called Imran Khan the most VVIP prisoner in Pakistan's history, saying that PTI is creating, that Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaf Party is creating drama.
00:53He said, meetings will only happen as per jail laws, and that Imran Khan was being fed chicken, desi murga, every day in prison.
01:04The former Director of India's Defense Intelligence Agency and former Kashmir Co-Commander, Lieutenant General Kamaljeet Singh Dhillon.
01:13General Tiny Dhillon joins us on this broadcast.
01:15General Dhillon, what do you make of where is Imran Khan?
01:19That question that was even raised in Pakistan's Senate today.
01:23Sisters aren't being allowed to meet him.
01:24Everyone says he's okay, he's alive, he's healthy, he's eating desi murga, but no pictures, no visual evidence.
01:30Good evening, Gaurav, and good evening to your viewers.
01:37First of all, let's have no doubt about it, that in Pakistan, anything to everything is possible.
01:44Without anyone coming to know where the person has disappeared, whether he's alive, he's not alive, and that applies to Imran Khan also.
01:53His Asi Manir had his way.
01:56Imran Khan would have been dead a long time ago.
01:57But the popularity of Imran Khan is so high in Pakistan that Asi Manir, in spite of all his intentions to eliminate or eradicate or take him to her side, have not succeeded in this.
02:11In the previous regimes, what used to happen was the military would discredit the prime minister.
02:16They would discredit him so badly and have so many corruption cases against him that ultimately he would beg for going abroad and be left alone.
02:25Whereas in the case of Imran Khan, the fighter which we have seen him in his cricketing days, we have seen him from his youngster days, he is from son of a soil.
02:35He is a true Pathan.
02:37Not that I have great love lost for him, but I'm talking about a person who grew from the grassroot level, who was a fighter on the cricket field, and that is his DNA.
02:47He refused to bow down to these pressures, he refused to bow down to these corruption cases, he refused to bow down to the military regime.
02:55He refused to go abroad.
02:57He preferred to stay in Pakistan in prison.
03:01And like one has travelled abroad so many times and you meet so many Pakistanis abroad, especially the taxi drivers.
03:08And when you speak to them, each one of them, without exception, says Imran Khan is a very good man.
03:15Is that why Aasem Muneer wants him dead?
03:18Because they say, you know, there cannot be two talwaras in the same way.
03:23So are we to understand that Aasem Muneer wants to neutralize Imran Khan?
03:28Because if Imran Khan were to come out of jail, Aasem Muneer would either be in jail or will have to leave Pakistan?
03:35Absolutely.
03:36See, the way things are turning around in the military.
03:39Aasem Muneer, you know, promoting himself to field marshal, then, you know, now almost a chief of defense staff,
03:45whereas he controls all the three services, has also the polity.
03:50But the prime minister is tagging along the army chief to go to USA or to go to Shanghai.
03:56This has never happened.
03:57In any democracy, prime minister is the supreme power.
04:01Now, here, prime minister is going along with the army chief, giving a clear indication not only to domestic audience,
04:08as also to international community, that who calls the shots in Pakistan.
04:13Now, if Aasem Muneer has to have a long innings, there is only one problem, and that problem's name is Imran Khan.
04:20Whereas, never in the history of Pakistan, any dictator has faced such a problem of such a powerful, such a, you know, independent and such a, you can say, respected person trying to oppose him.
04:34So, sir, explain this to me.
04:36Is Imran Khan more popular than Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was?
04:40Because General Ziaul Haq had Zulfikar Ali Bhutto hanged.
04:44Nobody could do anything that time.
04:45General Musharraf had Benazir Bhutto assassinated.
04:48So, military dictators in the past have had civilian leadership neutralized, and Pakistanis went about with their work.
04:55Like, you know, okay, something happened, two days they were upset, third day it was work business as usual.
05:00Will things be different with Imran Khan in case Aasem Muneer were to have him killed somewhere, by hook or by crook, inside prison or elsewhere?
05:07Absolutely, what a very valid question.
05:11See, may it be Bhutto's, Zulfikar and Benazir, may it be Nawaz Sharif, Shahbaz Sharif, Mariam Sharif, they all are not the sons of the swales, or the daughters of the swales.
05:21They all were born with a silver spoon.
05:24Whereas Imran Khan rose from ground.
05:27Imran Khan proved to the Pakistanis and the world his fighting spirit.
05:31Imran Khan is popular even today in spite of military trying to put corruption cases against him and all that.
05:37Whereas all the names you took, starting from Zulfikar to Benazir to Nawaz Sharif, all these people bowed under pressure, and the law could be applied against them as per the military's whims and fences.
05:50And one more very important and great difference, which was not there during Bhutto's time, is the social media, is the internet.
05:58Those days, the news could not travel.
06:01Only the news which were released by the government or military-controlled media and the television channels and the newspapers could only go to public.
06:11Today, independent channels, the YouTubers and the world media and social media, the news spread fast and spread to the right audience.
06:20So, it's very difficult to pin down Imran Khan in today's connected world.
06:26Now, that is the biggest challenge Asim Manir is facing as compared to the previous dictators of Pakistan.
06:31Though he has systematically broken the back of PTI, Pakistan Tehrik-e-Insaf leadership and CADA, jailing several, you know, as they say in Pakistan, updating the software.
06:43Software to update kar diya PTI ke kai neta ho ka sa.
06:46But, you know, the last two minutes I have on this part of the show, what do you make of Afghan media reporting that Imran Khan is dead?
06:52That's the Afghan media reporting.
06:53I don't know if that's true because Taliban and Taliban Khan, as Imran is known, as they're very close.
07:01See, they have tribal loyalties.
07:04The Afghan Taliban or the TTP and the Pashtuns, he belongs to a Nazi clan.
07:10So, all these people have relations and, you know, affiliation with each other.
07:15So, Afghan media reporting without a proof, I will still, you know, take it with a pinch of salt.
07:21If there is a proof coming, maybe on Al Jazeera or Afghan media or any international independent body, then only one would accept it.
07:30But I will go back to my first statement, which I made.
07:33Anything and everything is possible in Pakistan.
07:36So, don't be, you know, surprised if another 10 minutes we hear that Imran Khan's body has been found at so-and-so place.
07:42So, everything is possible in Pakistan.
07:45Asim Munir is against a very tough and popular leader and he has to play his cards well.
07:52Otherwise, go on are the days where you could rank elections and, you know, jail the people and put them under corruption charges.
07:58Today, the public is much more aware, much more connected, much more informed, courtesy of social media.
08:04But these are two radical Islamists that are literally facing off.
08:09I mean, you know, General Asim Munir or Field Marshal Asim Munir is a radical Islamist.
08:14So is Imran Khan seen as a radical Islamist.
08:18He may not quote the verses.
08:20He may not be Hafiz-e-Quran like Asim Munir.
08:23But, you know, given the fact that he's known as Taliban Khan, he's very close to the tribal leadership, radical Islamists like him.
08:31In your view, will the cadre of Pakistan, Tehrik-e-Insaf, and will the youth of Pakistan rise, should something happen to Imran Khan?
08:41Or, after what happened on the 9th of May, co-commander's house attacked, PEF Miawali attacked, a couple of other bases attacked, ISI headquarters attacked, Chitral scouts attacked.
08:50But, fine, for one week, they'll do what they will.
08:53The army will wait it out, and then it'll be business as usual, and then the crackdown will begin again.
08:59Absolutely.
08:59Guru, one major difference, which is now, within the Pakistan army also, there are a lot of officers, including senior officers, who support Imran Khan.
09:11Who believe Imran Khan is the right person for their nation, because he is charismatic and he has got the popular sport.
09:18So, there is a group within the Pakistan military which has affiliation or soft corner for Imran Khan.
09:26Having said that, Pakistan, the military remains supreme and the strongest entity.
09:33So, that effect cannot be denied.
09:35Imran Khan's popularity on one side, yes, military will come down very heavily.
09:39But, as I said earlier, in the era of social media, in the connected world, more atrocities military do in Pakistan,
09:47starting from Gilgit-Baltistan, Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, Sindh, Balochistan, Khyber Paktoonkhoa,
09:54they will have their hands full, and public uprising is the next thing which is going to happen.
09:59In relation to what the BLA will do, what the freedom fighters in Balochistan will do, and the Pashtun in KPK,
10:06and the uprising in Pakistan-occupied Kashmir.
10:09We'll track that story very, very closely, sir.
10:12You know, I'll let that be the last word on this part of the show, but we'll be tracking that story very closely.
10:16Jail Dilan for joining me here on India First.
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