- 14 hours ago
THR's Actor Roundtable brings together Tom Hanks, Sam Rockwell, John Boyega, James Franco, Gary Oldman and Willem Dafoe. THR Roundtables air every Sunday on SundanceTV.
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00:00Let's start with a simple question, what's most surprised you about the actual profession of being an actor?
00:14James, it's an interesting profession where I remember it was around, it was like a year that
00:27I was actually doing Spider-Man, Willem Dafoe was playing my dad, Robert De Niro had just
00:31played my father in a different movie, and it was like, this is one of the only professions
00:37I think where it's like, you get to work with all your heroes and in such an intimate way.
00:44I mean, even other artistic practices, you don't work with your actual heroes in that
00:52kind of intimate relationship in quite the same way.
00:55As an equal, as a peer, you can be an assistant to Annie Leibovitz, but, you know.
01:01What surprised you, Tom?
01:03I think that it's still just as much fun as it was from the first time I figured out that
01:07people took it seriously.
01:09I mean, at whatever level you're at, when I was in high school and I found out, this
01:14is a class you can take, are you kidding me?
01:16As opposed to drafting or sociology or accounting, you get credit for this?
01:20Well, first of all, that's the greatest racket I've ever heard of.
01:23But then the amount of fun that it was, I still feel the same excitement, knowing that
01:29we're going to perform this kind of like student one-act play, you know, next week, as I do
01:35when I get a job now.
01:36It's still this intense excitement of, oh, we're going to get to take a whack at this
01:41thing.
01:41And they take us seriously as they do it.
01:43Each time you do something, it's always different because there's so many moving parts.
01:49What you're working on, the people you're working with in terms of film, the configuration is
01:56always different.
01:57One of the first things I find that you have to do is kind of sort of figure out what you're
02:02doing or at least know where to start from because it's different every time.
02:06It's not like you can figure out a way to approach things and then use that even as a template.
02:13It always changes.
02:14It changes every single time.
02:15The target's always moving.
02:16That's the beauty of it.
02:17And how do you go about figuring it out?
02:19You know, I like that.
02:22I like that not knowing, going to that place of not knowing, going towards something.
02:27And if you've done it enough times, you know, the fear that a lot of actors feel, including
02:32myself, when you start something, it's nice to get comfortable with fear.
02:37If you're really conscientious and you really tap into a certain kind of wonder and a certain
02:42kind of process of creating something rather than just interpreting something, once you get
02:47in that place of not knowing, you've been there before and it kind of gives you this kind
02:53of courage that you wouldn't normally have, that you don't normally have in life.
02:58Yeah.
02:59And I think...
03:00Has this ever overwhelmed you?
03:01Yes.
03:02Yeah.
03:03Sure.
03:04It was just before Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy and I'm not really sure what happened.
03:11Two or three weeks before we started, I froze and had bone crushing stage fright.
03:24And I'd never experienced it before and I really just sort of didn't know what was going
03:31on.
03:32I'm not sure what you call it.
03:33It was anxiety or panic attack or...
03:37You hadn't done a lead in a while, right?
03:39Was that part of it?
03:40Yeah.
03:41Perhaps.
03:42I'm glad to say I have worked with people in the theater who vomit and, you know, I like
03:48every night and they...
03:50I heard Pacino did that with American Buffalo.
03:52You just eat some pea soup just so you can have something to vomit.
03:55Yeah.
03:56That's true, yeah.
03:57Wow.
03:58But you, you know, are shaking in the wings.
03:59Yeah.
04:00And I would sometimes look at that and I was always...
04:02Yeah, of course we all have a first preview or a first night, but I was always relatively
04:09a relaxed performer.
04:10I looked forward to going out there and wasn't that sort of person who was terrified in the
04:18wings.
04:19And I would look at these people and think, oh, God, if I had to do that every night, if
04:24I felt like that every night, I don't know how I would carry on.
04:27So it wasn't something that I'd had or experienced before.
04:32It was really debilitating.
04:35It was...
04:36It sounds like it was the pressure of the role.
04:38Like you, you really, like to you, those roles were like...
04:41I think also it was trying to slay the dragon.
04:46I've since spoken with other actors.
04:49Ken Branagh, who said he was on a set in a scene and it started to come upon him.
04:55And he went through it.
04:56And I realized that I was not alone.
04:59You know, it was like, you know, like an AA meeting or something.
05:02You go, yeah, I've experienced...
05:04Yes, you know, I've experienced...
05:06How did you get over that?
05:09The doctor prescribed me something just to calm me down, to give me a ceiling, you know?
05:16Just to sort of take the edge off.
05:19And you know what?
05:20I got to the set, walked onto the set, and went, um...
05:24Oh, yeah, I know.
05:25I know.
05:26I know where I am.
05:27Yeah, this is okay.
05:28There you go.
05:29Yeah.
05:30And it was...
05:31It's just a high wire.
05:323,000 feet above the floor.
05:34A hard surface floor.
05:35And you have a bar to keep your balance and...
05:37Have you experienced anything like that?
05:38I was competing with Jason Robards in The Post, because he played Ben Bradley, and so was
05:44I.
05:45As Ben Bradley, I mean, he owns that role from all the President's men.
05:52So here we're doing it.
05:53And I was actually given permission to forget about it by Ben Bradley himself, because I
05:58was lucky.
05:59I watched all the video that I could have gotten.
06:01And he gave quite a number of interviews.
06:03And Bradley, he talked about, well, you know, and then they made that movie, you know.
06:09And every day someone comes up to me and says, well, you don't look like Jason Robards.
06:16And that's, well, then you know what?
06:18It's all, you know, there's been a lot of Hamlets.
06:21There's been a lot of Richard the Thirds.
06:23I wouldn't be surprised if there are a lot of Ben Bradleys.
06:26Oh dear, I don't like hypothetical questions.
06:29Well, I don't think you're going to like the real one either.
06:34Do you have the papers?
06:37Not yet.
06:42Oh gosh, oh gosh, because you know the position that would put me in.
06:48You know, we have language in the prospectus.
06:51Yeah, I know, I know that the Bankers can change their mind.
06:54And I know what is at stake.
06:56You met him?
06:57Oh yeah, I had dinner with him a number of times.
07:00What was that like?
07:01He was exactly, he was the most confident man on the planet Earth.
07:05Loved his job.
07:06Knew that he was crackerjack at it.
07:09And Anne Roth, anybody work with Anne Roth?
07:11Yeah, oh yeah.
07:12Anne Roth, the costumer, she's really particular about building the character along with you.
07:17And we were shooting it and I'm trying all these shirts that I would never wear in a million years.
07:22And she said to me, do you know why Ben Bradley walked into a room and owned it?
07:29Do you know why?
07:30And I said, because he knew.
07:32And she said, because he knew.
07:35And so you end up just building this kind of, you couldn't explain it.
07:39You couldn't write it down for a million years.
07:41But you take it from whatever source you can.
07:43And you think, hey, I'm safe here.
07:44I'll be all right.
07:45Yeah.
07:46Were you ever intimidated when you work on something?
07:48Were you intimidated if you worked with Meryl Streep?
07:51I don't know.
07:52I don't know.
07:53Yeah.
07:54Yeah.
07:55No, there's an intimidation.
07:57I don't feel like we're really making the movie until about three days in.
08:02Because you've got to meet everybody and you're trying to get it.
08:05And you probably haven't rehearsed, but you are saying, you know, I know your movies and I know you.
08:10You know, we know everybody.
08:11You're just some degree of fan.
08:13And until you get to that place where you're just in the slog of things, then you're making the same movie.
08:19But I will tell you, I don't know if you've found this, but the legends, the heroes that you get to work with, they all do it the same exact way.
08:26They want to run the lines.
08:27They want to get it down.
08:28They try it a million different ways.
08:29They start.
08:30They stop.
08:31They feel confident.
08:32They don't.
08:33And that also was a liberating process to witness.
08:35I felt like that with John Hurt on Tinker and the first day of working with him.
08:42I couldn't wait to get there.
08:44And there he was, smoking a cigarette, standing there outside his trailer.
08:48And I was absolute, I was fanboy.
08:51You know, it was like, my God.
08:54He happened to be a really wonderful, wonderful human being, too, as well as a great actor.
09:02But it was just such a thrill to meet him and to play some scenes with him.
09:08You know, I admired him, his work so much over the years.
09:11You shot a scene in Star Wars with Prince William and Prince Harry.
09:14Was that intimidating?
09:15Yeah, and Tom Hardy.
09:17It was a strange contrast of a weird family.
09:20But it wasn't intimidating.
09:21It was fun to me.
09:22I thought it was like, of course, it's Star Wars.
09:24They're going to bring the royal family.
09:25And it felt fun.
09:27Were they Stormtrooper costumes?
09:29Stormtrooper costumes?
09:30Yeah, they were wrapped in Stormtrooper costumes.
09:33And so that was just for me, it's the best of both worlds for me.
09:37But it was a great experience seeing it.
09:39When you make the Star Wars movies, is it hard not to go when you're firing the things by yourself?
09:45I'm doing it all the damn time, Tom.
09:46Yeah, all the time.
09:47All the time.
09:48All the time.
09:49You're a child.
09:50There's a new planet every day and a new scene to play.
09:55It just makes you feel as if you're a part of history, in a sense, and a part of something that you grew up knowing.
10:01But now it's your reality and it's just strange on a day-to-day basis.
10:05Well, that's the surprising thing again about what we do.
10:08You know, you're watching these films as a kid and then suddenly you're in one.
10:14Yeah, yeah.
10:15And as everyone says, like I'm, you know, literally...
10:17Is it different when you're in a real-life story like Detroit?
10:19And how do you go about researching that?
10:22It's definitely different.
10:24It's the importance that this true story is going to be seen by so many people.
10:28And the world is tainted right now.
10:30And this story is sensitive to the issues that we have.
10:33And you're basically creatively commenting on something.
10:36It puts you in a position of some form of responsibility.
10:39So on set, there is much more of a level of seriousness.
10:44But it's shared in unity.
10:46But it's still, there's a much more of a serious tone that's required on a set like Detroit.
10:51Whereas in Star Wars, you know, you've got JJ Abrams, you know, popping every cashew you can find in his mouth.
10:56And, you know, everyone's having much more of a lighter time because it's like, oh, it's Chewbacca getting his hair just brushed.
11:02You know, it's like-
11:03What do you mean the world is tainted now?
11:04I mean, Detroit is a reflection.
11:06Even though it's set near enough 50 years ago, it's a reflection of what's going on now in terms of race relations.
11:11And it's strange.
11:13You know, you watch a movie like Detroit and expect it to be based in, you know, 2017.
11:17And the lines of blood in terms of how far we've come.
11:20Alice, you know, sometimes when a black guy is put in a position of authority, other black guys, they like to single you out.
11:30Okay?
11:31Because I'm not supposed to tell them what to do.
11:34When we have these conversations, we do them in stages.
11:39Okay?
11:41Stage one, witnesses.
11:44Stage two, suspects.
11:47Do you ever feel that as actors, you're not doing something meaningful enough?
11:50Or do you feel that there is a purpose to it?
11:54Oh, I think I just want to entertain and make people laugh.
11:59So I just want to get that check.
12:00I just want to get that check, yeah.
12:02I mean, you know, it's always-
12:03That Broadway check.
12:04Just the Broadway check.
12:05You're making those big money choices, Sam.
12:07Yeah.
12:08I mean, you always kind of think you're doing Citizen Kane, you know.
12:12And nobody sees the movie or sometimes people do see the movie, but I think you think you're doing Hamlet every time.
12:19And then sometimes it turns out that way, sometimes it doesn't.
12:22I think you're trying to do the best thing ever.
12:25The same commitment and energy goes into making a bad movie.
12:29No one sets out to do it.
12:31Exactly.
12:32That's the story of my movie.
12:33Which brings us to.
12:35He thought he was making A Streetcar Named Desire.
12:39Does he still think that?
12:41That's one of the crazy things about Tommy Wiseau.
12:44On the original poster, he had written the copy.
12:47He wrote Tennessee Williams level drama.
12:49Shows what he thought he had made.
12:51He told people they would not be able to sleep for two weeks after watching a movie because they'd be so devastated.
12:58And then when it came out, people laughed.
13:02And he didn't take Tennessee Williams level drama off the poster.
13:07He just added an enjoyable black comedy.
13:10So it's like, he went into that trying to just make a movie that would move people.
13:16The best movie that he could.
13:17Is that how you approached the role as well?
13:19Being an actor, playing an actor?
13:21I tried to make the best movie I could.
13:23No, but it was about how I treated him.
13:27I treated him with respect as somebody, as an outsider artist just trying to do what we're all trying to do.
13:35You know, everybody that comes to Hollywood is on the outside and with a dream.
13:40It's all of us.
13:41And so if I treated it like that, it would become a much bigger story than just a spoof about a guy.
13:46Do you all know what this is about, the film The Room, which may be the worst film ever made?
13:52I mean, there are.
13:53What film was this that I missed?
13:55The Room.
13:56My movie The Disaster Artist is about the making of an actual film called The Room.
14:01Now, not the great Brie Larson.
14:03That was Room, so you made it through the WGA.
14:09A couple years ago when she won, at the screenings of The Room, they said, not the Brie Larson.
14:18It came out.
14:19He paid for everything.
14:21It was six million dollars of his own money.
14:22It looks like it was made for six dollars.
14:25He put it out for two weeks to qualify for the Academy Awards.
14:29Didn't qualify.
14:30And then it just became a cult hit, and it's been playing for 14 years.
14:36Every, once a month, in almost every major city.
14:39Wow.
14:40Yeah.
14:41It's a whole thing.
14:42Oh yeah, Tommy weird.
14:43Tommy like Frankenstein.
14:45He like, feel like vampire rapist.
14:47I hear everything.
14:49I have ears everywhere.
14:50I hear your whispers and your souls.
14:52You're on my planet.
14:54Okay?
14:55Wait, wait.
14:56So you've been spying on your entire production?
14:57Yeah, that's right.
14:58That's fucking crazy.
15:00That's how it is.
15:01So now you know.
15:02Next time you make laughter, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
15:05I don't care who you are.
15:06You're out on the street.
15:07What about me?
15:08Am I still fired?
15:09All right, I'll give you one more chance.
15:13Did he ever ask you if you liked his film?
15:16I love the film.
15:18I mean, no I do.
15:20Like it, I've watched that film almost as much as any, the James Dean films.
15:25I've watched that film about 50 times.
15:27And so have the fans.
15:30The room gives.
15:32It's like the gift that keeps on giving.
15:34People just keep coming back.
15:35So you have to sort of admit there's something there, you know?
15:40And I don't think it's just that he made strange, bizarre choices all the way through.
15:45I think it's partly the magic sauce is that there's so much passion underneath.
15:50I mean there are thousands upon thousands of bad movies that we'll never watch again.
15:54But people watch this one over and over.
15:56And I think it's partly because of the heart and soul underneath.
15:59You said something that, you know, Obama put it in outsiders with a dream.
16:16Were you an outsider with a dream?
16:18And what was your dream?
16:19Mine?
16:20When I started performing?
16:22Really just to make things and be near people that excited me.
16:27And I started out in the theater in an unconventional theater in New York.
16:32And was with that theater for 27 years.
16:35We'd go there every day and work.
16:38And we'd open things in process.
16:42Once we made things, we'd keep them in repertory.
16:45And then after a while, we were pretty much reviled for many years.
16:49And then we started to get some play with international touring and started getting a reputation.
16:56And then through Europe, we kind of were accepted here.
16:59Why were you guys reviled in America initially?
17:01Oh, they just thought what we were doing is bullshit.
17:04No, they just didn't think.
17:06Because the aesthetic was not a polished aesthetic.
17:10We were doing things that a lot of us, I was not well trained as an actor.
17:16But most of them came from different disciplines.
17:18But that was a time in New York, we're talking about the mid-70s,
17:21where a lot of people, you know, painters were making music, dancers were making films.
17:26It was all mixed up.
17:27And there was also kind of a subculture that wasn't careerist.
17:32They were just doing things for now.
17:34And that was beautiful training for me.
17:36It also, yeah, just you have to do it for your own pleasure.
17:42And you have to do it to express yourself.
17:46And then hopefully there's like-minded people out there.
17:48I think the second that you start thinking too much about what people need, it becomes something else.
17:53When I was playing Jesus, I was not cowed because somehow I understood.
17:59We weren't doing Jesus for all time, we were doing our Jesus, you know?
18:03And I think whenever you're working, you know, on a historical character,
18:08a character where you have a really strong reference, it's your take on it.
18:12That's all you're responsible for, which is a lot.
18:16Yeah.
18:17Did playing Jesus change any of your views of religion?
18:20Absolutely.
18:21Huh.
18:22And for how I'm making things because it was one of the most demanding things that I've done.
18:27But Willem, what do you do?
18:28Because like you play Jesus or like the vampire in Nosferatu.
18:33Those are based on real characters, but, you know, who knows how Jesus looked or behaved or whatever.
18:40So the pressure's off.
18:41But like, have you ever had like a real-life character where, you know, it's like-
18:46I don't know about pressures at all.
18:47Yeah, you're right.
18:48Well, you know, I mean, that kind of pressure.
18:50You know, it's not like if you had a certain look and they're like, you didn't get the look right, you don't look like-
18:57Yeah.
18:58You know what I mean?
18:59I made a movie about Pasolini in Italy.
19:01Yeah, right.
19:02There you go.
19:03And he's a beloved figure.
19:04And I did feel that responsibility, but I thought, it's just crazy enough that so many people have, you know, he's a revered figure, but it takes a couple of crazy Americans to make a movie about an Italian cultural hero.
19:18Yeah.
19:19But we had so much support from his family and from people around him.
19:23I was wearing his clothes.
19:24We were shooting the actual places.
19:27There were so many people that were supportive that that really helped.
19:31They were like little touchstones.
19:33They were like little relics that we had and the support of the people.
19:38Similarly, like this movie Florida Project that's out now, one of the most beautiful things about that is Sean Baker, the director, knows how to mix actual things with fiction.
19:49We were shooting in an operating motel.
19:53And we were there basically living with those people.
19:57And what helped more than anything else.
19:59You stayed in the thing?
20:00No.
20:01I didn't stay there at night.
20:02I didn't stay there at night, but during the day I'd go there and I didn't have a trailer.
20:05I'd had my little room and I was next to Troy and I was next to so-and-so and so-and-so.
20:10I'd talk to them.
20:11They'd talk to me.
20:12Yeah.
20:13You know, those people became my people.
20:15Yeah.
20:16And I think the lesson for me there was that always has to happen.
20:19When you approach something, you know, you have to close the difference between them and us and they become you, you know?
20:26Yeah.
20:27And then you have some sort of authority and some sort of stake and you're not going to be egotistical or exploitative, you know?
20:35And that's what was so beautiful, really guided by Sean in this experience because the generosity of those people opening themselves up
20:46and letting us be at their place to mix with them and kind of tell their story was, I think, what gives the film some integrity.
20:56You come on this property again and you won't be leaving it, you understand?
20:59I don't know what you're talking about.
21:01You don't know what I'm talking about?
21:03You're going to play it that way, huh?
21:05Hey.
21:10Hey.
21:11All right.
21:13Charlie Coachman of Cherry Hill, New Jersey.
21:18You can't keep me out. That's my license.
21:20I'm going to call your name.
21:22Any kind of sheriff.
21:24Now you get the fuck out of here.
21:28Sam, is there any kind of character you would refuse to play?
21:31I mean, you play a pretty bigoted guy in Three Billboards.
21:34Yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:36I get all these rednecks, Green Mile.
21:38Yeah.
21:39I played a racist.
21:40He got stained right off the bat.
21:42At least you don't have to wear the hideous brown teeth that go along with it.
21:47Tom was very, I was, that was my first, one of my first studio movies.
21:50Tom was very generous.
21:51I had a spit in his face.
21:52He had this guy come in and he says, oh, this genius guy is going to come in and play this other thing.
21:57That was a great set.
21:58That was a great set.
21:59It was like doing a play.
22:00It was, it was, it was a bunch of guys who loved each other.
22:03He came out of our trailers for scenes that we were not in, in order to watch.
22:07You, you went to Hollywood Boulevard to put your hands in the concrete.
22:11Oh yeah.
22:12And you could have gone home.
22:13They sent you away and you came back to do off camera.
22:15You came back to do off camera.
22:16That's because Frank Darabont will shoot 16 hour days and eat every meal stand right up.
22:20Yeah, but you could have gone home and you came back.
22:22You're, you're very, you're very generous.
22:24Well, it's only three blocks away.
22:26So let's talk about, let's talk about playing those bigots.
22:29Have you ever said no to one because you just couldn't bear the character?
22:33Well, I don't, I, I think the, the pedophile thing is something I can't mess with.
22:37Uh, that, that, that's something I, it's too, I did that once and it's, that's, but the, they're always trying to throw me on a horse or, uh, you know, it's weird cause I'm a city kid.
22:48I, for some reason, I think I have an affinity for it and I've dated some Southern girls and, and so it's, uh, and I watched Coal Miner's Daughter maybe too many times, you know, tender mercies, you know.
22:58Do you take those characters home with you or do they affect you in a negative way?
23:01I, uh, no, I don't. I, I, I go home and watch the Simpsons or something.
23:06I mean, you do, you do live with it in your mind, obviously.
23:10It stays with you.
23:11You're working.
23:12You're working.
23:13It's working.
23:14It's working, you know.
23:15But you don't.
23:16Some rednecks, you know.
23:17I'll play some scary people.
23:18Yeah.
23:19When's a bail hearing?
23:20I asked the judge not to give her bail on account of her previous marijuana violations and the judge said sure.
23:26You fucking prick.
23:32You're not calling officer of law a fucking prick in his own station house, Mrs. A's, or anywhere actually.
23:39What's with the new attitude, Dixon?
23:42Your mama been coaching you?
23:44No.
23:45My mama didn't do that.
23:50It's funny you were saying about people playing iconic, very famous people.
23:55Yeah, yeah, yeah.
23:56I mean, you know, Churchill is arguably the greatest Briton that ever lived, you know, to many.
24:02And they have an idea of who he is.
24:06And they've seen these pictures.
24:08Right.
24:09But do they really know who he is?
24:13Or are they remembering Churchill?
24:16Or are they remembering Albert Finney as Churchill?
24:19Or Robert Hardy as Churchill?
24:22I think I was somewhat contaminated by those other actors.
24:28In England, there are much more mixed feelings about Churchill than certainly in America.
24:33Sure.
24:34And when I was growing up, there were those who admired him and there was a dissenting view.
24:38But did you come away with more mixed feelings about Churchill from your research?
24:43No, I came away with enormous admiration for him.
24:46He's incomparable to any figure.
24:50Lincoln, possibly.
24:52Lincoln is the closest, I think.
24:55He's a man, 50 years in politics.
24:59He wrote 50 books.
25:01The Nobel Prize for Literature.
25:03Painted 540 paintings.
25:05Had 16 exhibitions at the Royal Academy.
25:08Flip-flopped twice.
25:11Commended in four wars.
25:13Flip-flopped politically.
25:15Yeah.
25:16Certainly, his mind and ingenuity took us through.
25:25He navigated that very, very cleverly.
25:28The Second World War.
25:30I mean, it's a towering achievement.
25:33You know, just the life.
25:36How did you uncorrupt yourself from those other performances?
25:39I went to the footage and I saw a man who was energized and had vitality.
25:47He looked like a baby.
25:49He had a cherubic face.
25:51A sort of naughty schoolboy grin with a sparkle in his eye.
25:55He was marching ahead of everyone.
25:57It was like moving through space with a fixity of purpose, you know, and energy.
26:02And he has been played as a sort of grumpy, a man born in a bad mood.
26:07A grumpy, curmudgeon drunk with a whiskey and a cigar.
26:12I didn't set out deliberately to be different.
26:17But the man that I saw in this footage was different to some of the ways that he has been represented.
26:25Christian, did Bale call you about the fat suit?
26:28Your fat suit?
26:29Didn't he call you?
26:30He called me about the jowls.
26:32Because he said, man, that makeup's good.
26:35How'd you handle the four hours every day?
26:38Four in, one out.
26:40That's usually about what it is, right?
26:42Yeah, four in, one out.
26:43Was it prosthetics and a whole bunch of stuff?
26:45I had two people working on me at the same time.
26:49And with great patience and humor, we got through it.
26:53And of course, there's that exciting moment when three hours in or two hours 50, you start to see in the mirror.
27:05It was a lovely way in.
27:07And the interesting thing is, by the time I was ready and dressed, the crew arrived and the other actors, and we would rehearse.
27:16And I came to the set as Churchill.
27:20So, Joe Wright, the director, didn't see Gary for three months.
27:27Hitler will not insist on outrageous terms.
27:30He will know his own weaknesses.
27:32He will be reasonable.
27:33When will the lesson be learned?
27:34When will the lesson be learned?
27:36When will the lesson be learned?
27:39How many more dictators must be wooed, appeased, good God, given him mixed privileges, before we learn?
27:50You cannot reason with a tiger when your head is in its mouth.
27:56Tom, you've made documentaries about World War II.
27:59You did Saving Private Ryan.
28:00Have you thought about Churchill?
28:02Would you ever imagine playing him yourself?
28:04Oh, dear Lord, no.
28:05That's for not, that'd be like me going playing a, you know, a Welsh coal miner or something like that.
28:13I don't think that's fantastic.
28:15Hey, how about that?
28:18Is there anybody who would like to play that you haven't?
28:21No, I don't.
28:22I must say I don't operate that way.
28:25I mean, I'm not saying there wouldn't, something would come across the desk and say,
28:28oh, my Lord, I can't, I've never even imagined this.
28:30But, no, I think that is an inorganic approach to, I think, what we do, which is very instinctive.
28:38We have to have some, what do they call it, a coup de fou?
28:41A lightning bolt has to hit you and then suddenly you can't get it out of your head.
28:45There are themes, though, however, that I would love to be able to examine.
28:50I made this one movie cast away because I wanted to examine the concept of four years of hopelessness
28:57in which you have none of the requirements for living, which is food, water, shelter, fire, and company.
29:06But it took us six years in order to put together the alliance that would actually examine that the way it was.
29:13And I only had a third of it and Bill Broyles only had a third of it.
29:16So we had two thirds of this examined theme.
29:19And then nothing happened until Bob Zemeckis comes along and provided that other third.
29:24That's the stuff that ends up.
29:26What do you mean you only had a third of it?
29:28Well, I had that original idea.
29:30I said a guy, I was reading an article about FedEx and I realized that 747s filled with packages fly across the Pacific three times a day.
29:40And they're filled with nothing but packages.
29:42And I just thought, what happens if that goes down?
29:44You know, what's lost?
29:45Packages.
29:46Oh, except maybe, well, then, so it just, it's not a, it's not a.
29:50Third was the volleyball.
29:51I was going to also say.
29:53Wilson.
29:54No, that was, that was Bill Broyles.
29:56I had the search for the five elements and I had, and I had the logic of how he ended up there.
30:02Because you need, you need, what Dan, I did 127 Hours, another guy isolated.
30:07Yeah.
30:08Until they figured out, oh, he has the video camera and he can externalize the thoughts, Danny was like, I don't know how to do it.
30:16And Simon Bofoy, his writer, wouldn't write it until they figured that out.
30:20And the volleyball, that's what, that's what you need.
30:23Well, Bill, Bill had the volleyball, but he hadn't, Bill Broyles, who wrote it, he had me paint a face on it to give myself company.
30:29And Bob said, no, it's got to come out of your own blood.
30:31You know, so he made it an accident out of a bloody hand.
30:34So it's like my offspring is there in order to talk.
30:37That's how Wilson was born.
30:39That's how Wilson was born.
30:40You lost a lot of weight quickly for that, because I remember on Green Mile, you were happy.
30:44Yeah, yeah, I was sad.
30:45And then you had to lose it quick.
30:46Had a whole year.
30:47Not to get into all that.
30:48We shot the fat, we shot the fat of half of the movie, and then we took a year off.
30:52Oh, you had a year.
30:53Didn't he make the Harrison Ford thing?
30:55Bob made What Lies Beneath with Harrison Ford and Michelle Pfeiffer.
30:58We're the same crew in order to keep everybody.
31:00And you tortured yourself.
31:02I went off and grew a beard, you know, as long as Interstate 10 and lost every pound
31:07I possibly could.
31:08Wow.
31:09I don't recommend it.
31:10It's no way to live.
31:11Better to stay trim and better to stay in that Jesus shape all year round.
31:17Every now and again, you have to comment on the absurdity of what you do for a living.
31:22Absolutely.
31:23We have come, like in England, it always drives me nuts in England because you think, oh,
31:27we're going to go shoot this movie at, oh, Pinewood Studios and Shepperton Studios.
31:32And it has this patina of class and distinction and Alec Guinness and David Lee.
31:37And you get there, it looks like an abandoned gas works.
31:40It's just one of the most hideous, uncomfortable, cold, dank places on the planet.
31:44Absolutely.
31:45Corridors and old sinks.
31:46Yeah.
31:47And yet you put on colorful clothes and come in and bounce around the set and you go like,
31:50this is silly.
31:51I want to come back to something you just said, which is you're drawn to certain themes.
31:56There's one thing that hasn't been explored in film, not for a while, which is the big
32:00issue Hollywood's dealing with, sexual harassment.
32:03Should it be?
32:04And what should you as guys be doing about this now?
32:08Should it be what?
32:09Explored by Hollywood as a theme.
32:11Absolutely.
32:12Yeah.
32:13Yeah.
32:14Well, you know, I mean, it's horrible stuff that's going on.
32:18It's depressing and it's sad because obviously some of these people are very talented and
32:23it's depressing that if they're predators, of course, they have to go down.
32:27But it's fucking sad and depressing.
32:31Has it surprised you what's come out?
32:34No.
32:35No.
32:36No.
32:37No.
32:38Because look, there's a lot of reasons people do this for a living.
32:40Making a movie is a life experience that can create an awful lot of joy.
32:46You can meet the person you fall in love with.
32:49You can laugh your heads off.
32:50You can make the best friend you've ever had.
32:52You can work with one of your heroes.
32:54That's the good stuff that can happen on a movie.
32:56The bad stuff can happen on a movie as well.
32:58There's some people that go into this business because they got off in having power.
33:03And the most times they feel the most powerful, which is why they went into the business, is
33:07when they're making, you know, and I mean hitting on, I don't necessarily mean completely sexual,
33:13on somebody that's underneath them.
33:15I mean, there are predators absolutely everywhere.
33:17And there's some that I must say, really?
33:19Wow.
33:20Wow.
33:21But there's, I mean, the big Megillah, the one that started it all off on, it says,
33:24well, you know.
33:25Harvey, you mean.
33:26Yeah.
33:27Have you seen anything like that happen?
33:28And have you taken action or have you then regretted not taking action?
33:32We produced a project in which someone said, there is an element of harassment that's going on here.
33:43And as soon as we heard, you've got to jump right in.
33:46You've got to take up, you talk to every one of the guilds and find out what happens.
33:49And you go immediately there.
33:51There's stuff that happens on a set that can be really inappropriate.
33:56And there can be that type of predatory aspect on a set because you think, well,
34:00we're in the circus and we're on the road.
34:02So, therefore, the rule, do the rules really apply?
34:04They don't really apply.
34:05There's the other aspect of it is, is that, come try to get this job from me.
34:11You want me to give you a job?
34:13Come on, come.
34:14Come prove to me that you want this job.
34:16That's a sin and that's against the law.
34:18And that is a degree of harassment and predatory behavior that goes against an assumed code of ethics.
34:27I think eventually, I think everybody who has an office or a production office above the coffee maker or the copy machine is going to have a code of ethics and behavior.
34:37If you don't follow these, you will not work here.
34:40And that's not necessarily going to be a bad thing.
34:43Somebody said, I don't know who it was, it says, is it why?
34:46Is it too late to change things?
34:47No, it's never too late to change things.
34:49It's never too late to learn new behaviors.
34:52And that's the responsibility of anybody who wants to obey a code of professional ethics.
35:01Do you all agree with that, James?
35:04Yeah.
35:05If it change it, yeah.
35:07Of course.
35:08Of course.
35:09Any situation where, you know, one group of people is, you know, being taken advantage of or treated differently than, you know, needs to change.
35:18It's everyone's responsibility to step up, of course.
35:34What's been your own toughest moment as an actor when you were talking about, you know, that fear or something else?
35:41Have you had a particularly tough moment?
35:43Mmm.
35:44In the circle.
35:45Talking about fear again.
35:46Really?
35:47What is the circle?
35:48On my second to last day, I had a big speech that basically put the whole movie and the narrative in context for the audience who weren't listening for the last two hours.
35:58And it was a really important moment.
36:00And I just, I just froze up.
36:02I froze up and I forgot the whole thing.
36:05And I was there on set with Emma Watson, who was amazing about it.
36:09I literally found myself in basically a 01 acting class with Emma Watson trying to say, just remember, just remember the lines.
36:16What are your intentions?
36:17What are your motivations?
36:18And I just couldn't, I couldn't get it.
36:20How'd you get through it?
36:21It was embarrassing.
36:22How'd you get through it?
36:23Well, they had to, they had to, I mean, they had to shoot it chunk by chunk, but at the same time, you know, I had, you know, Emma Watson behind, you know, just trying to mile the lines.
36:31I just, I just couldn't, I couldn't, I didn't understand it.
36:34And I had to reevaluate this whole thing when I, when I got back into my private time and understand what the issue was.
36:40And what was the issue?
36:41The issue was fear of schedule.
36:44I have a fear, I have a fear of schedule.
36:47I've only just started my career and this is my first year in which I've worked on projects back to back.
36:53I've never had that opportunity in my career before.
36:55So one of the things that I picked up was that I'm now viewing my life in chunks.
37:01Oh, I'm filming Star Wars in 2017.
37:04Then I've got another thing to do in 2020.
37:06It's adorable when the kids experience it.
37:07So it's just like, it's mad that I've never experienced it before because, you know, where I grew up and how I grew up is a day by day situation.
37:16It's, you know, it's, it's class every day, you know, it's, it's, it's church on a particular day.
37:21But now it's like, well, you've got this schedule that's six, seven months down the line and you're now viewing your life in chunks.
37:27And sometimes you forget to rest.
37:29Your mind is constantly going.
37:31I mean, is it a thing where you feel like you have to be responsible for an, you know, for an entire year, you're going to have to be a certain amount of, it's that.
37:39So you overwork.
37:40I mean, you, you know, you know, that you've got time to prepare for the role, but I guess, you know, I'm, you know, I'm young man.
37:47I try to just do the testosterone thing and just juggle and have it all going at the same time, trying to learn lines for this, trying to be prepped for that training for that.
37:55And then I understood my limits, you know, James, you do a little juggling, right?
37:59Not anymore.
38:01I stopped.
38:02You said recently you hit a wall.
38:04I did.
38:05When you juggle long enough, you drop some balls.
38:08I mean, not drop balls, but it's just, it's not actually like that.
38:11It's more like, um, it's okay.
38:14You can drop some balls when you get some money in the air, man.
38:17Whatever the metaphor, you know, it's more like, uh, I was doing that.
38:22I was holding on to work because it was where I felt the most safe.
38:26And it was just like, not even, not even being aware of that.
38:31It was just like, I need more.
38:32I need to fill this.
38:33I need to fill this.
38:34Subconsciously, it was just like, that's what I know the best.
38:37And that's where I feel most comfortable.
38:40And then realizing after a while, it's sort of diminishing returns that, you know, doing so many things for me was actually not comforting me anymore.
38:52And that if I realized be more, you know, fewer things with more attention with people that, you know, I really love working with and care about that, that will give me exactly what I was, you know, seeking by doing so many things.
39:08I had just under a year to think about Churchill.
39:14And we had four weeks rehearsal in a rehearsal room with props, with furniture, saying the words out loud with the actors that you're going to be doing the scene with.
39:27That's awesome.
39:28Discussing, you know, what works, what doesn't work.
39:32I have to say, you know, I go in and out of, I lose my love for it.
39:37I lose my love for acting.
39:39Because it's, you get there, you're supposed to have a relationship with a person that you've only met the day before.
39:47You don't really rehearse.
39:50You kind of block with camera, sometimes out of the gate.
39:56And you go, you want to go?
39:58Want to do one?
39:59Yeah, you do a take.
40:00Yeah, that was good, that was good.
40:02You want one more?
40:03Well, I've come all this way.
40:05Yeah, let's, you know, and we've got to, we've got to move on.
40:13It's amazing anything is any good.
40:16And I just get so sad working like that and go, really, you know.
40:25Did you ever think of quitting acting?
40:26Many times.
40:27So then where do you find the passion for it again?
40:30Or do you find it?
40:31When you get, when you do something that comes as, as Mr. Hanks here said, you know, it's not, I mean, it was, you know, Dracula was never on my bucket list.
40:42It was Coppola, which made it interesting.
40:45And it came across the desk.
40:46So you're at the mercy of the industry, the imagination of the people that are casting you and they go, oh, yeah, Gary's played these villains.
40:55What about Jim Gordon, you know, and then a Tinker Taylor comes in or a Churchill or an opportunity to work with, as I've done with, sadly, the late Tony Scott that I worked with and I worked with Ridley.
41:10And you worked with some of these people and you get re-energized and inspired and you remember why you wanted to do it.
41:19Let me ask.
41:20Yeah.
41:21Gary, I mean, that sounds like a month of rehearsal sounds amazing.
41:25Yeah.
41:26It's almost unheard of.
41:27You know, I'm sure you and Joe Wright, like, led the charge on that.
41:29Like, this is what you want to be a part of this movie.
41:31This is what we're doing and all that.
41:33But, you know, a lot of times you just can't do that.
41:36But I also think, like, sometimes it depends on the type of film.
41:42Like, for example, like, I don't know, maybe you guys had a month of rehearsal for the Florida Padres.
41:48I don't know, but, like, I remember doing another Florida movie, Spring Breakers, and part of the vibe of that is immersing into the environment and bringing, you know, the real people in.
42:03And so I don't, I really don't think a month of rehearsal with, like, non-actors is going to, you know, happen.
42:10But that was the Harmonies film.
42:12Yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:13Which he was superb.
42:15I heard you watch it and you didn't know it was me.
42:17It was me.
42:18I had no idea it was me.
42:19That's right.
42:20Yeah.
42:21That's incredible.
42:22And I said, God, that creepy ass guy.
42:24Where'd you find him?
42:25And they were just Ross Franco.
42:27I haven't seen it.
42:28It's really a phenomenal film.
42:30Yeah.
42:31But your scenes with the King, for example, that must have, the rehearsal for those scenes must have played huge dividends because every beat is so tiny and small.
42:41And you can't find that in, you know, before lunch on the set and then move on to the second half of the scene.
42:48Yeah, we came in and the rhythm and we clicked and just really started to roll from take one.
42:59And that, what you're talking about and I would, hey, I would, I know Harmony and we've often talked about doing something together and I would gladly throw myself into something like that.
43:11That is a very specific kind of movie that you're talking about and an experience that you're talking about with a director that has a real point of view and a process with the way he likes to work.
43:26I'm just talking about some of those where you feel like it's just, you've got to work, but you don't want a job.
43:36That's that.
43:38It's that.
43:39Is there a film that you've seen recently that has revitalized you or this actually changed your thinking about something, a film this year?
43:47I'm going to say Get Out.
43:49Yeah, that was damn good.
43:51Get Out, Get Out was 19 things all at once.
43:57It was a creepy Twilight Zone movie.
44:00It was a stand up comedy act.
44:02It was about two people in love regardless of their station in life.
44:07I think it's very hard to make a contemporary movie that actually does capture the zeitgeist in the place that we are in right now.
44:15At the end of the day, at the end of that movie, it accomplished something that I had never, ever, ever, ever seen in a movie.
44:22There is a dead white woman who has killed herself, right?
44:27He did.
44:28And there's a black guy with all her blood on her and the police come and he's innocent.
44:34But what is going to happen to this guy?
44:36And they get out of it.
44:37No spoiler alert.
44:38Well, you know they re-shot the ending.
44:39Well, they did.
44:40Oh, yeah.
44:41Which was fantastic.
44:42What was the original was?
44:43He went to jail.
44:44Oh, he gets taken to jail.
44:45Oh, okay.
44:46Have you seen anything recently that's really impacted you?
44:49When We Were Kings had a big effect on me.
44:52I think that there's something about Muhammad Ali and we're talking about fear and joy.
44:57But, you know, Foreman made him wait 10 minutes before he came out.
45:01He was trying to psych him out.
45:02And Ali psychs himself up to get, he starts shadow boxing, talking to the audience.
45:07Ali, Mumbai.
45:08Mm-hmm.
45:09And, um, Ali's scared.
45:11You know, he's scared.
45:12That guy was, Foreman was the, Mike Tyson of that time.
45:15And he, he mustered up the courage, you know.
45:18And so, when I'm scared and I have stage fright and all that stuff, I think of that.
45:23Mm-hmm.
45:24Were you scared when you went into Three Billboards?
45:26Always, always scared.
45:27Yeah, sure.
45:28Of what?
45:29Of sucking, of, uh, you know, of all that stuff.
45:34You know, you're scared all the time.
45:36I mean, I was scared when I was doing the play, Fool for Love, that I would rope shitty when
45:41Ed Harris came, because he'd done the original production.
45:44And thank God I wrote good when it came, yeah.
45:46You wrote good when I came, too.
45:48Good, good.
45:49Did you talk about that with Martin McDonough when you did the, did it?
45:52Or what were those conversations?
45:54I think that I had the luxury of a lot of time.
45:56I went down to Southern Missouri and I did some ride-alongs with cops and stuff like that.
46:00And, uh, you know.
46:01That's interesting.
46:02What's that?
46:03Yeah.
46:04How did they treat you as a celebrity ride-along?
46:07They were great.
46:08A guy named Josh McCullen.
46:10He taped my lines in a tape recorder.
46:12My dialect coach, Liz Himmelstein, found a cop.
46:15And Martin didn't want much of an accent.
46:17So I said, you know, Liz, I think we're gonna have to tape another cop.
46:21This cop doesn't have enough of an accent.
46:22We found another cop.
46:23Went down and did some ride-alongs.
46:25But I have an acting coach, Terry Knickerbocker.
46:28You know, it takes a village, you know.
46:29I mean, I do a lot of work ahead of time.
46:32You don't get to rehearse.
46:34And so you're just ready to go when you get on set.
46:36Do you all do a lot of work ahead of time?
46:38It depends.
46:39Yeah, it depends.
46:40But you have to.
46:41Sometimes you don't have to.
46:42Sometimes you don't have to.
46:43When?
46:44You know, I think, for me anyway, you just look for the triggers.
46:49And you look for the thing that gives you the confidence to say, I am this guy.
46:53Or you can receive what's happening.
46:56We were talking about different kinds of movies.
46:58I tend to make a lot of movies where you try to capture these moments.
47:02And you don't get time to craft things, you know.
47:05And that's interesting.
47:06But to start out with, to overcome this fear, overcome this uncertainty,
47:11and they kind of direct your energies, you need to hang on to something.
47:14And sometimes it can be something as simple as a costume.
47:17I always go back to wild at heart.
47:20I had these teeth.
47:21They were everything.
47:22I put those teeth in my mouth and it kept me from closing my mouth.
47:27I always had this expression and I felt like I knew the guy was, you know.
47:32Yeah, yeah.
47:33Other times you feel totally insecure about approaching being this person
47:39until you create a history, until you make things happen, until you learn things
47:44that make you have a shift in your head to feed the imagination.
47:49Because you can't just imagine things from a dead, you know, stop.
47:54You've got to make something, you know, and then you turn it into something.
47:58That's how I felt working on Detroit because it was interesting that the detachment to the project
48:04and not enough time was a part of the creative process, especially for Katherine,
48:09that we didn't know everything that was going to happen on a day-to-day basis.
48:13And so there was always a feeling of channeling that very, you know, nervous energy,
48:19that feeling of being fearful.
48:21She fosters that.
48:22Yeah, she fosters that into the scene.
48:24Yeah.
48:25And so then you realize after about two weeks of getting used to it that it's vital.
48:30It's a part of performance for this specific project.
48:33Yeah.
48:34Whereas when I go on something else, you know, I might get time and I'll use it, you know.
48:38With Lars von Trier, he always says, first of all, he doesn't want you to know where the camera is.
48:43He prohibits rehearsal.
48:45And his mantra is, we only need one.
48:50You know?
48:51But, you know, then you watch something like what Gary did.
48:54It's a different kind of movie.
48:57If you could put one movie, one performance, not your own, in a time capsule,
49:02I know you're going to say several, but choose one that's particularly meaningful for you
49:06that you've seen that's impacted you.
49:08Dear Hunter.
49:09Dear Hunter.
49:10Yeah.
49:11Why?
49:12It had a huge impact on me, I think, when I was a kid.
49:15Yeah.
49:16I saw it with my father.
49:17And my father kind of looked like De Niro in that.
49:19He had a beard and a mole and stuff.
49:21Yeah.
49:22John?
49:23Tom Hardy in The Warrior was, to me, just a powerful performance.
49:27Personally, I found myself engrossed in a narrative that made me reflect into my own
49:32life just because of the versatility of roles that Tom Hardy has had back-to-back is shocking
49:37to me.
49:38Tom, what about you?
49:39Well, I'd go to Robert Duvall on any number of characters that he's done just because he
49:44did not look like the movie star that he was supposed to be, and he did some very subtle
49:49stuff with Coppola.
49:51When I go back and examine the breadth of everything that he did, I think a lot of what we have to
49:59figure out as actors is one is particular to us, and the other one is particular to the movie.
50:06Particular to us is the behavior.
50:08We have to get the behavior down.
50:10It's not our behavior.
50:12As a matter of fact, if it is your behavior, you better go outside yourself and find something
50:16so that you're not just being you, although sometimes it doesn't matter so much, but you
50:21have to get the behavior down.
50:23The other part of it is the protocol, meaning how the people live in the world that they
50:28live in, what is required of them, what is their job, how much they sleep and eat.
50:33Robert Duvall, I think he always finds that behavior.
50:37I think the best of them all is Tom Hagen in The Godfather.
50:40He's not the Italian.
50:42He's not even related to him.
50:45He's just a kid that they found in the street, but he becomes this guy who is always
50:49explaining the legal aspect of it.
50:51If we're taking more than one, I'll say De Niro in Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, and Raging Bull.
50:57Just the prime collaborations with Scorsese and Goodfellas.
51:02Those three, I've never seen De Niro behave in the way that he did in Mean Streets.
51:10It's just like this exuberance of youth.
51:13He's just ready to go.
51:15It's like the first collaboration with this guy that you know they'll go on to have all
51:21these incredible things together.
51:24Then Taxi Driver, there's just never been anything like that.
51:28The kind of preparation we're talking about, you know, that's like Raging Bull is that's the role.
51:36Everyone talks, you know, gaining the weight and whatever.
51:38Like that's the role where you're like, oh, that's what preparation means.
51:43Willem, name one.
51:45Frankenstein movies.
51:47Oh.
51:48Boris Karloff.
51:49Wow, wow.
51:50Yeah, wow, yeah.
51:51Wow, yeah.
51:52How about you, Gary?
51:53George C. Scott.
51:55His work in the Kubrick film.
51:57Yeah.
51:58Oh.
51:59Yeah, yeah, yeah.
52:00Hilarious.
52:01And very last question, speed round here.
52:02Just a very brief answer.
52:04If you couldn't act, you will have hobbies.
52:07What would you pursue?
52:08Tom, I know you've been writing.
52:10Yeah, okay, I'll go with that.
52:12Some brand of daily journalism.
52:14Oh.
52:15Yeah, like a column.
52:16Going's on about town, kind of.
52:18Oh.
52:19I'd like that.
52:20Interesting.
52:21Yeah.
52:22Well, we're very happy to hire you at The Hollywood Reporter.
52:23I know, right?
52:24Easy now.
52:25John, how about you?
52:26Probably architecture.
52:27James?
52:28If I couldn't, if I wasn't an actor?
52:30Director?
52:31Yeah.
52:32That's gross.
52:33Well, I mean, writer.
52:34Well, you're probably going to get both anyway, do you know what I mean?
52:37What about you?
52:38Pumping gas.
52:39Plan B?
52:40I don't know.
52:41Plan B?
52:42Yeah.
52:43That's it.
52:44Barbacking.
52:45Busting tables.
52:46Cook or a farmer?
52:47Oh.
52:48What about yoga?
52:49A yogi?
52:50That's more practice.
52:51Last but not least.
52:52Well, I have my sort of hobby is I do 19th century wet plate photography.
52:58Wow.
52:59Wow.
53:00So I would do that, you know, I could do that till the end of time.
53:05Wow.
53:06Wow.
53:07Absolutely.
53:08I envy you that.
53:09Perfect.
53:10Well, this was such a great round table.
53:12Thank you very, very much.
53:14It was fun.
53:16That was it.
53:17Excellent.
53:18Excellent.
53:19Excellent.
53:20Excellent.
53:22talented.
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