- 7 hours ago
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00:00Previously on the hack hacking phones at the news of the world has been endemic endemic they've hacked thousands
00:14There is an industry making huge profit from evading people's private lives and Rupert Murdoch's bullying tabloids have explicitly encouraged it and are buying it
00:21Charlotte Harris Nick Davis of the Guardian
00:24I can't talk to you about specific cases but I can tell you there is so much more to come
00:30Show me what you have printout of an email proving a payment of seven thousand pounds two mile care for a story on gordon taylor
00:36And the police have access to all of this in law
00:38In my opinion what I've seen is a most careful investigation by very experienced detectives
00:44And since no additional evidence has come to light I can see no reason to reopen the inquiry
00:49Kirstama's conducting a review and now the cms select committee want to see her surgically
00:55Are you reading the statement no
00:59But I do have things to say
01:07Welcome to your voicemail you have three new messages to listen to your messages press one
01:14The bar here just wondering when you're over oh uh the kitchen tap seems to be fixed now
01:23Which is good
01:24So that message deleted next message
01:28Nick it's Sheridan um just to say I got a call from the bank today they said it's in relation to the
01:33three mortgage but I felt like someone was fishing message deleted next message
01:40Nick we're putting together a legal response for Alan but we need to speak to you about the select committee
01:46Oh my god
01:57Don't you dare
02:02Has Alan run again
02:04Possibly
02:05Possibly
02:09Could be the school telling me my son's broken his leg
02:12Or Rebecca Brooks declaring surrender
02:14Or it could be Alan asking where I am and whether David Lee is with me I didn't answer I don't want to lie to him
02:21Perhaps a little voicemail
02:24Why are we here?
02:26Good question
02:27Thank you for joining us gentlemen
02:28Now we have a lot of questions so try and keep opening statements short
02:32I'd like to keep this whole experience quite short if I may
02:36But I do have quite a lot for me to say
02:39I'd like to start by showing you
02:41First of all copies of an email with respect mr. Davies sir we have quite a few questions for you
02:47I understand that but I think your questions will be given context open with a question from mr. Whittingdale
02:55Do you want the evidence or not I would like to read it
02:59Yep
03:05Okay
03:11There you go
03:12This is an email sent for neville furlbeck chief reporter for news of the world a document the police have had for some time
03:23a document that contains transcripts of hacked voicemails
03:28I hope you'll agree this backs up our claims
03:31But what's more unsettling is that scotland yard have never arrested or interviewed neville furlbeck
03:37My chief concern is mr. Davies is all very dramatic but if we can get back to the matter in hand mr. Whittingdale
03:42I'm very worried that
03:44news international journalists have been breaking the law
03:48And equally worried the scotland yard do not appear to have investigated them
03:52Mr. Davies this is all very dramatic
04:03It's amazing what you can do with kids glue and some black paper
04:08You've got your kids to redact it
04:11I enjoyed it. They like craft
04:14Good revolutionaries
04:16What was that letter che Guevara wrote to his kids?
04:24Alan
04:27Hi
04:30No, it's fine. I think we got away with it
04:39What are they saying?
04:41Yes
04:48Can you just yes
04:50Right
04:52Thanks for letting me know
04:56David leopard the sunday times
04:58Why is leopard phoning you?
05:00Yeah, it wasn't him
05:02Leopard spreading a story that I hired john for to hack voicemail
05:06It's apparently all over parliament john ford the blagger you wouldn't use john ford
05:12They're saying it's in relation to our investigation of monsanto
05:16I did use an intelligence farm
05:18Limosis
05:20If possible they subcontracted to john ford
05:27Well, the guardian isn't in trouble anymore
05:31I am
05:36Yeah
05:54John ford
05:55John ford had had his hand in and out of alistair campbell's trash for years
05:59But his real talent was for blagging
06:02An ex-actor with style he did all sorts to get all sorts
06:06Gordon brown's bank records for one
06:11And alan may have hired him which
06:14Well
06:16The newspaper industry loves a bit of hypocrisy to expose
06:19Good morning
06:31Not the face you were hoping to wake up to
06:38Now I think the time has come to admit
06:41That john ford isn't home
06:45David lee investigations editor the guardian
06:48Also alan's brother-in-law the sunday times have got him well hid
06:57Give him another day
07:00Perhaps we can get hold of alan's paper trail
07:03Get inside the intelligence firm
07:06Start again
07:07It'll take too long they'll publish before
07:08Then alan will take a hit and we hope he survives it but sitting here nick
07:13It's getting us nowhere
07:18This is not all my fault
07:20Murdoch's an eel
07:23He's entirely relentless
07:24I'm not picking a fight with murdoch
07:26No
07:28I'm picking a fight with our entire industry
07:32Don't answer
07:33No dude dude don't let them leave the voicemail
07:35It's an email
07:38Statement from the crown prosecution service
07:41The cps says it's not appropriate to reopen the case or revisit the decision
07:52They're not backing us
07:53What was it that john yates said about the case something about a small number of
07:59Of hacks yeah
08:01Our inquiry showed that they only use the tactic against a far smaller number of individuals
08:06page two
08:07Searchmore care's office sees material which indicated some non-royal cases had been hacked
08:14Yeah
08:15The dpp states only a select sample of these could be taken to court because
08:22Any other approach might have made the case unmanageable
08:27Unmanageable that's just a lot of hacking like more than one reporter
08:30Yeah
08:32Almost an admission assumption
08:34All right you call
08:38Got it
08:40That means you need to leave the car
08:42Got it
08:42Yeah
08:46Hi this is nick davis of the guardian
08:48Hi there
08:48I need to speak to somebody at the cps about the glenn mulcare prosecution
08:52Uh yes yes but uh specifically how can i help
08:55Specifically
08:56I want to know what the police passed up and you declined to prosecute because any other approach would have been
09:02Quote unmanageable okay i have information particularly an email that i want to discuss
09:09Yes sir um can i pick you a hold
09:11Yes i will hold
09:15Really
09:16The plot thickens the nevel email was never flagged the met never flagged it to the cps
09:25Why not
09:28I can't get this up it's too important
09:30No i know
09:31I won't let it hurt alan
09:33I'm not entirely sure you can make that promise
09:46Hi hi
09:59I made you a sandwich
10:01Oh cheers
10:06You look rough
10:07Yeah and you look beautiful
10:11I'm not sleeping
10:13No neither am i
10:15Daniel morgan
10:16Anything i can
10:17I can't tell you anything you know that
10:20Is there something to tell
10:20No
10:22Christ salmon and cream cheese eh
10:24Scottish salmon
10:26And i need some
10:28non-daniel morgan advice
10:30Well you're saying poncy salmonies don't come free
10:34Why would the met not flag evidence to the crown prosecution's house
10:40Cps don't get everything
10:42And everything it does get has to pass the relevance test right
10:45Correct
10:46Okay
10:49So is this relevant
10:51They're transcripts for nevel firlbeck chief reporter of the news of the world
10:54And they didn't get shown this
10:59They put it through as unused material
11:02Shit
11:05Tell me what is happening in the met
11:09Well there's obviously a lot can't tell you but what can't say
11:12Is that ever since steven lawrence
11:15The met have made it their job to
11:17Well dick for dorchian director of communications
11:19Yeah i've met him
11:20Well he currently sits in the met's senior management team
11:23Our comms chief
11:25Not a police officer and he has direct impact on operational decisions
11:29Good press matters that much
11:32These meetings are dominated by how to get the cases that are going well in the front of the tabloids
11:38And the cases that are not going so well often
11:41By order of the commissioner
11:43Dick will whine and dine the crime journalists and guess who he meets the most
11:48News of the world in the sun
11:51But not flagging this to the cps
11:53It's bad
11:54But look at you stop doing that you're making me jumpy
11:56I think i'm being watched
11:58What are you Anthony Height?
11:59You for one thing
12:00Hey i'm just meeting a pal for a quantity sandwich
12:05Glenn Mulgare did a minimum 20 000 hours work for the news of the world
12:11That's on records an industrial level of work
12:13Which means he worked for far more journalists than clive goodman
12:17So neville thirlbeck appears to be one other but
12:20Was he feeding all of them?
12:21And like just be careful okay?
12:24See these people
12:25I'm not gonna be fucked with
12:28You sound delighted to hear from me
12:41You sound delighted to hear from me
12:52Delighted and not surprised
12:55How did you get this number? Did you flag it?
12:57Your office gave it to me
12:58I can be very polite and surprisingly charming
13:00If you're calling about the cps announcement i'm as pissed off as you are
13:03But there's little i can do
13:04Look the cps have a file on glenn mulgare
13:07You must know somebody
13:08Nick i don't work for you and i've got to go
13:10Good luck and goodbye
13:17Glenn Mulgare chief phone hacker for the news of the world
13:20Given six months jail time for the clive goodman case but now
13:24He's out and about and sniffing about
13:33Mr. Mulgare
13:38Mr. Mulgare
13:40Nick davies
13:42I saw you
13:43Maroon Saab by the park
13:46You think i'll do what i do without being good at it
13:49I don't know if you've been reading my pieces in the guardian
13:52Are you taping this?
13:53No
13:54I know i wouldn't do that without your consent mr. Mulgare
13:57It's glenn
13:59So who else are you talking to nick?
14:01Got anyone good in the police
14:02It was just now at the screws
14:04Who are you still talking to at that paper?
14:07You're funny
14:10Why are you here?
14:11Did you ever work for neville thirlbay
14:14Right
14:15Let me save you some time
14:16I have an email written to you
14:19Which is marked for neville from ross hindley and it contains transcripts of 35
14:23Everything i did came out in court
14:25Anything more than that i didn't do
14:27They cut you off right
14:29You do know you're still open to future charges
14:33Get out now for the whole thing collapses on you
14:35You know i've got five kids in there
14:37And you come to my house and what threatened me
14:39I wasn't threatening you
14:40Have you any idea what you're dealing with here
14:44Look
14:45You do yours and i'll do mine
14:47Yeah
14:47I wasn't threatening you i was just telling you they won't help
14:55Okay so there is a lie happening here the cps memo shows this stretches right inside news international glenn malcare essentially confirmed it
15:03He didn't confirm it
15:04I'm digging in in the meantime i'd like to publish our scotland yard scared of rupert murdoch
15:10Saying what
15:11Saying they buried evidence which should have been passed to the cps poking the bear
15:16Well that's what we do now poke the bear
15:18No
15:19Can we just take a minute what's your angle here
15:20Well i have two lines of attack one to reveal who was on their shopping list i need names much more of them
15:26There were far more than than three rulers five non rulers
15:28I want to know who signed up on these names i mean proof it was more than clive goodman
15:32How will you get that proof
15:33My second line of attack is to get inside the police
15:35A mistake
15:36To discover why this evidence wasn't flagged to the cps
15:39What criminality was ignored and why
15:42John yates called me and said we've got the wrong end of the stick with the police in all of this
15:45We're on the wrong end of the stick
15:47Yes do you not think that's possible
15:49Look are we sure this is sensible we're risking our relationship with the police and with good journalists from other newspapers
15:56Why to root out a few bad apples it doesn't
15:58Bad apples wrong sticks
16:00I agree with nick the neville email is extraordinary and the fact that they didn't flag it to the cps more extraordinary still
16:08A chief reporter seems to have been involved in hacking that didn't warrant an investigation
16:14There are potentially thousands of victims but the met is only claiming a small number
16:18What do you think jill
16:19For a public interest offence you need to be absolutely sure of your facts
16:24Right now this feels a bit small
16:25Well i have to say i agree
16:27Let's pause on the scotland yard article
16:30Let's let the pcc press complaints commission the pcc will settle all this down
16:36They'll back us and it will all be easier
16:40What else have we got something other than when's gordon brown going to call this next damn election
16:46Listen alan's nervous but he's right you need more but the angles you're pursuing
16:52Also right who says the pcc are going to back us well you don't think they will why is alan waiting for them
16:58You know we have to keep pushing kill or be killed we can't wait
17:01Yes the sunday times are getting ready to publish on john ford and alan
17:07Right
17:09Have lamosis come back with any more
17:11Nothing that gives us categorical proof
17:14He's in trouble just give him time
17:17They're accusing him of being a hypocrite we have hypocrisy on hypocrisy the world's gone mad
17:22Look nick nick nick nick nick whatever you're doing nick stop
17:37Hello
17:41Hi this is nick davis of the guardian can i have this sunday times managing editor's office
17:45I mean it nick
17:50Hello
17:51Hi this is nick davis of the guardian
17:53Yeah
17:54I'd like confirmation on the record of a how many times you've made payments to john fords to blag into confidential databases
18:02And b the period of time over which these payments have been made
18:06Of course you need to do some investigation you just call me back whenever you've had the chance to do so yeah
18:16Great thanks bye bye
18:28Hi
18:30He's suffering i don't drink
18:32Let me get something softer a mars bar
18:38Yeah sure i'll tell you everything i know for a mars bar i wasn't i'm not threatening you no no you're willie wonka chocolate for everyone
18:46I want to know your side of the story
18:49How'd you find me here you're on the club's website you won the big break competition here two years ago congratulations
18:55In court transcripts it says that you worked for news the world for 70 hours a week
19:00Here we go over six years that's over 20 000 hours
19:05What were you doing for them during that time i'm a pi
19:08Did pi work for whom
19:11Because it wasn't just clove goodman well naming names that's two miles bars at least i know
19:16You aren't to blame for all this your name is in the mud already if you explain exactly what you did
19:22And who you were working for even if i wanted to tell you who the police have got all my notebooks and my computers and everything so
19:29Notebooks what's in those
19:33Fuck you it was in the cps report that your office was searched the material was seized but i didn't know there were notebooks
19:38You find me a pi who doesn't write things down yeah well what's in them plans of inquiry
19:45Names of people you were hacking sorry doing pi work on and the names of who you were doing them for
19:50Names of news of the world journalists go away and take your cheap beer with you
19:58I do not think genuinely really do not think that you should be the full guy here
20:04Yeah well be careful that you're not a full guy too
20:07Hey champ
20:09Now please fuck off
20:12Let me do the one thing i'll still enjoy all right
20:16Good luck
20:24Mark has given me an idea oh good all he's given me is a headache we need to get inside the court system we need to get more information released
20:32Sorry they won't release documents to me they will if they're compelled to buy a judge hang on can you calm down
20:39What children you are aware it's the weekend
20:43All right the police have mulcares notebooks if we can get them into the public eye we'll see
20:49Who hired who how high this goes who was being hacked i mean we need compelled evidence
20:54Use what between i need and we need in the same sentence do you know that
20:58I know you've other clients i know you're building several cases here help me it'll help you too
21:05We don't work together now well of course we don't but we do have the same cause
21:10I can't get inside the notebooks because i'm not mentioned in the notebook but you find a client who is in there
21:17Whereas the bravery to take it to court suddenly
21:21See how much this opens up
21:27Let me um
21:30That might be somebody you could talk to
21:32Well let me know as soon as you can okay yes i heard you i'm on it okay thanks bye
21:37There is an art to fear
21:48an art the news of the world and the sun and all those nasty buggers mastered a long time ago they call it monstering
21:54grievous emotional harm
21:56the kind of injury from which some victims simply never recover
22:00a monstering is intended to destroy the victim involved and it is intended to make sure that no one stands up to them ever again
22:08take former labour government minister claire short she criticized the sun's use of topless women to sell the paper
22:15she found herself denounced to millions as killjoy claire short on looks short on brains
22:22the paper offered free car stickers sent page three models round to her home
22:27ran a beauty contest to ask their readers whether they would prefer to see her face or the back of a bus
22:38the news of the world ran two bogus stories suggesting claire was involved in pornography
22:43tried to buy old photographs of her as a 20 year old in a nightdress and published a smear story which
22:48attempted to link her to a west indian gangster
22:50they monstered her it was horrible
22:57in his diary alastair campbell recalls the ferocious monstering which was given to the then transport
23:03secretary stephen byers in 2002. he continued even after he resigned it's like they get a corpse then
23:10they're disappointed there's nothing left to kill so they try and kill the dead body too
23:14so standing up to it standing up to that paper takes guts
23:20and possibly a little insanity max it's an honor an honor is that right
23:28max clifford king of the kiss and tell his job was bargaining with the tabloids to get the best
23:34headlines and the most money for his string of clients didn't need to be true just needed to sell
23:39do you remember freddy star ate my hamster he wrote that headline but maybe it takes a tabloid man
23:47to kill the tabloids i'm sincerely grateful for you being here charlotte explained your problem
23:54i have a feeling that our interests might align on this they hacked me that's on record
24:00and i want to find out who signed off on it well that's extremely important we hope
24:04it will be important we've had our first disclosure we made an application to the courts
24:09this is everything mulcair wrote about max
24:21they've redacted everyone in particular anything which might identify the news of the world journalists
24:26who might have commissioned the hacking i'm going back to court we'll get more question when they
24:31disclosed gordon taylor's paperwork did they redact anything no why start now because it implicates
24:37them so did gordon taylor they're working out how to make themselves impenetrable they're watching us
24:47you do know what you're taking on do you know who you're talking to i believe rebecca brooks is
24:52your friend didn't you help her when she was accused of assault i help her but not in that case
24:58i have my loyalties and i have beliefs i mean i know andy coulson for him sitting next to the prime
25:05minister that's wrong in every way all the same i spent my entire life inside that machine i know
25:14what their guns smell like you we need you back christ if i'm your best hope you're fucked
25:28you look tired are you sleeping oh i've definitely slept better that um mortgage application
25:44thing did that come back at all no but there was something else um so when i was picking the kids up
25:52uh someone i didn't recognize started talking to me about a maggie someone now that's an ex of yours
25:58right oh god did they see the kids yeah i mean they kept it casual but
26:06shit maggie god they're desperately digging i didn't like it nick school gate
26:13well look they approached you again you take out your phone you take a photograph okay and promise
26:22me it's not going to get worse than this well they'd be really stupid to do anything i could print
26:27but i'm sorry i'm really sorry
26:32will they find any skeletons if they look properly they'll find a cemetery
26:35this is a delivery this is a delivery you stay where you are no no no let me go all right um
26:40well let's talk later bye kids bye bye
26:48how are you okay are you all right
26:54hello you coming in no i've got food on there's enough i have some uh good news actually max clifford
27:02more people taking them to court john ford thing's gone away
27:09great you think i don't know how let's talk inside nick davies always guaranteed to bring a
27:17flamethrower to a knife fight it was the best thing to do you didn't think to consult me beforehand
27:24it's gone away alan because you um what's the right word to use here provoked them in flat earth news
27:31i found substantial proof that the sunday times are using john ford that doesn't matter of course it
27:35matters they were wrong to use john ford i was wrong if i did inadvertently use john ford and
27:42you were wrong to get involved in a way that wasn't asked for and wasn't warranted i was trying to
27:49broker peace with john witherow and you could have destabilized that and starting a fight with the news
27:54of the world and the sunday times i knew it would work are you denying that it did no but if you knew it
27:59would work why didn't you make that call at the very beginning why did you try and find him spend a
28:04couple of nights in a car with david lee jesus christ nick you're such a hazard i was just following what
28:13was alan come on look we need to keep pushing they will push back we need to keep pushing i get it
28:20you're exhausted you think you're taking on everyone by yourself but it's not just you in the box on this
28:25one nick it's all of us i can't have a hand on your leg the whole time
28:39what have you done
28:57you stupid child
29:09yeah i guess you'd be up yep the press complaints commission have come back
29:16not good news the pcc has seen no new evidence to suggest that the practice of the phone messaging
29:22tapping was undertaken by other beyond goodman and mulcair or evidence that the news of the world
29:28executives knew about goodman or mulcair's activities you were right alan was wrong they
29:34haven't backed us either yeah okay sorry nick oh thanks for calling bye bye
29:48please enter your four digit pen
29:54welcome to your voicemail you have four new messages to listen to your messages press one
30:01uh this is carl i'm here to read your meter you said you'd be here this message deleted next message
30:07hey it's charlotte we've entered the imminent claim for max and we're waiting for the courts to get
30:13message deleted next message nick hi it's me another one i'm not sure if it's anything but um a girl you
30:20sent a message deleted next message
30:27oh
30:33oh
30:41oh
30:43Hello, Dad.
31:00You're looking thinner.
31:02You look good.
31:03Still a charmer.
31:13I should be helping with that, Papa.
31:22Should, would, could.
31:24No, you can't.
31:26Anyway, these are the good hours.
31:29What does that mean?
31:30Hips hurt, knees hurt, back hurts till 11 AM,
31:35and then again from 3 PM.
31:37But 11 till 3.
31:38There's a holiday.
31:40Never get old.
31:43So you've got four good hours, and you sleep for presumably 8.
31:47Yeah, but don't turn it into a maths puzzle.
31:50I can still do the crossword, however my hips feel.
31:54That's all that counts.
31:59The crossword in The Times.
32:02Should I stop buying The Times?
32:04Yes.
32:06I won't.
32:07I know.
32:09I've been reading your pieces.
32:12You've managed to watch the select committee.
32:14I have no idea how you even did that.
32:16I'm not a dinosaur.
32:17I can use the internet.
32:22So is it all as hard as it looks?
32:25It's fine.
32:29You've got nothing to prove.
32:30I won't try to prove anything.
32:41Your mother would have liked it.
32:44All this trouble.
32:46She always liked trouble.
32:47Just be safe with yourself.
32:54Just be safe with yourself.
32:56That's all I ask.
32:59Just be safe.
33:12Fifth floor, yeah?
33:13Fifth floor, yeah?
33:38Mr. Davis.
33:38This is the commissioner.
33:39Thank you for coming in.
33:41Dick said we should meet.
33:43Yes.
33:44Dick Fedorcio was kind enough to arrange the meeting.
33:47I thought it useful so we could smooth matters over so we can help each other.
33:51I don't think I can help.
33:53No, no, no.
33:54I'm here to help you.
33:55A story that makes Scotland Yard look good.
33:57I just need you to confirm that in order to be able to inform all the potential victims
34:03of the hacking that you've set up a new database containing all the evidence which you gathered
34:08in 2006.
34:09Have we?
34:10Well, a very good word from lawyers who've been in touch with the Yard saying that you're
34:16taking the need to organize the evidence which perhaps wasn't organized quite so well.
34:21Seriously.
34:23All right, fine.
34:26Maybe we have organized a database.
34:28I will give you that.
34:30But in return, maybe you can cease and desist with briefing everyone against me.
34:35We have nothing to do with News International, and you bloody well know it.
34:39Assistant Commissioner, my interest...
34:40Do you think I don't know what you're doing?
34:42When I appeared in front of that damn select committee, I could see in the eye movements
34:46of the MPs that you briefed all but one of them.
34:50So eye movements?
34:52Mm-hmm.
34:53I'm a clever cop, Mr. Davis.
34:55Right.
34:58Why didn't you pass the CPS the email to Neville Furlbeck, which clearly implicated him in the hacking scandal?
35:05Was it because, as the CPS have said, that you could only use a sample because the evidence was unmanageable otherwise?
35:11No, the CPS were clear.
35:13With the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act, it is only a crime if the intended victim had not already heard the message.
35:21No one interprets Ripper like that except you.
35:23All I want to know is the extent of this.
35:25Can you tell me how many victims of phone hacking you've been able to identify?
35:28Mr. Davis, the Crown Prosecution Service do not agree with you.
35:32The Press Complaints Commission do not agree with you.
35:35And the Metropolitan Police certainly do not agree with you.
35:40There's dog-minded, and then there's just dog.
35:44This left-wing attack on Murdoch by the Guardian...
35:46If you can't give me a bald number, just tell me how many victims were in Mulcair's notebooks.
35:50I have never fallen out with a journalist before.
35:59Well, you finally have done so.
36:02Congratulations.
36:20Thanks.
36:21Hi.
36:22Look, I bought you a gift.
36:39It's an I'm not sorry gift.
36:43You can look.
36:52But I'm also...
36:53I'm stuck.
36:54So...
36:55If calling it an I'm not sorry gift is offensive, call it a damn gift.
37:00As in, damn, I'm stuck, please help.
37:02Why are you stuck?
37:04They are...
37:05Everybody is...
37:06No one is telling me the truth.
37:11The amazing thing about you, Nick, is that each time you find someone lying to you,
37:15you are utterly amazed, even though you've devoted most of your life to uncovering liars.
37:20I wear the coat of a cynic only to conceal the heart of an agitated otter.
37:27They, um, talking of cynicism, they're now spreading a rumour that I have a love child.
37:33A love child.
37:36They're coming after me, too.
37:39Sheridan's been filing all sorts of calls.
37:42But they're not telling lies about you.
37:44Why are they only lies about me?
37:45Don't know.
37:46Because they think attacking me is the easiest way of shutting you up?
37:51Clever, really.
37:53They know I need you.
37:55How curious you choose now to say something so kind.
37:59Oh, God.
38:02I'm your Sancho Panzer.
38:05I always thought I was yours.
38:08I'm sorry, making your life difficult.
38:12I don't...
38:14I don't take our friendship to mean that...
38:17I don't... I don't expect you to print everything I write.
38:21You're just doing what you're doing, which is why you're the best.
38:24This is why I pay you.
38:26Handsomely.
38:28You're just as optimistic as me.
38:30Christ, you thought the PCC would come back on our side.
38:32Even though I didn't...
38:33How a so-called industry regulator could say that about us.
38:37But it's the death of self-regulation.
38:40Me? What do I do?
38:42Can't you call your Mr. Apollo?
38:44He's gone.
38:45Said he would.
38:47You always contacted me, you know, from the same line twice.
38:51Well, wait for Max Clifford and your day in court.
38:55Max is important.
38:56We can't wait.
38:57We're in a firefight here.
38:58They're gonna keep slinging mud till something sticks.
39:01Then...
39:04What about the phone companies?
39:06Sorry?
39:07Yates made that claim in the select committee
39:11that they'd ask the companies if there were any other victims of Mulcair and Goodman
39:15in order to take appropriate action.
39:17Yeah, I remember.
39:18Well, ask the phone companies to disclose
39:22how many victims they identified and warned of being hacked.
39:26Might get the hack numbers that way.
39:31You're a genius, Sancho.
39:33Never call me that again.
39:40Go on. Click it.
39:44Just click it.
39:49Got books.
39:50She's not naked.
39:51Those pens when you click and they're naked but she's covered in books.
39:53It's a joke.
39:54Thanks for explaining it to me.
39:55I'll never use it.
39:56I'll never ask you to.
39:59The commissioner called after you left Yates.
40:01He said to me that your coverage of the hacking scandal was exaggerated and incorrect.
40:07The first time I felt genuine confidence that we're doing absolutely the right thing.
40:15Adios.
40:16The select committee had, of course, rumbled on after us, meeting press, politicians, the police, trying to beat Rebecca Brooks.
40:22She said no.
40:23Though they succeeded in meeting Andy Coulson, who said...
40:26As little as possible.
40:27But they were working it as best they could.
40:29And I was working with them as best I could.
40:32Feeding them occasional questions.
40:34Which we asked in our own way.
40:36Hadn't occurred to me that the police revealing in a memo written by Yates that the mobile phone companies had been contacted was a way in.
40:44The police provided the individual phone companies details of the telephone numbers.
40:51And it was agreed that they would individually research, assess and address whether or not and to what degree their customers had been the subject of contact by the suspects.
41:05What I'm looking to find out is when the police contacted you, what number of victims you managed to trace and how many you contacted.
41:18But, yes.
41:20But John Yates was quoted in the select committee as saying you were spoken to, so...
41:25My question is, did you ignore the assistant commissioner of the Metropolitan Police?
41:30Yeah, sure. Sure, I'll hold.
41:33Nick.
41:35O2.
41:3640 victims.
41:37Now, it's only one.
41:38It's only one.
41:39When one goes, they all...
41:40Yes, it is.
41:41Now, O2 have just confirmed that once they were alerted by the police, they contacted 40 hacking victims.
41:46I just wondered whether you have a number for us.
41:49Or have you more to hire than them?
41:51Great.
41:52Great.
41:53How many?
41:57Do you think you'd do any better than broadly the same as O2?
42:00Orange have come back with 45 victims.
42:02Do you want to match that number instead?
42:06No?
42:07Right.
42:08Okay.
42:09Thank you very much.
42:10Thank you, bye.
42:16O2, 40 victims.
42:17Vodafone, 40 victims.
42:19Orange, 45 victims.
42:20Together with the original eight, that's more than 130 people who had their phones hacked.
42:25Far more than the eight stages.
42:27And this is just the tip of a very, very big iceberg.
42:31Okay.
42:33Let's do it.
42:40This wasn't just Goodman.
42:43This wasn't just the royals.
42:44This was a practice.
42:46This was our foothold.
42:48And yet...
42:51Even though News International should have been on fire, it once again barely hit the sides.
42:57And no other newspaper thought it was an important story either.
43:13Good scoop.
43:15The mobile phone company's very good.
43:17Makes me happy to hear you say words like scoop.
43:20Why does that not what you say?
43:21You ever said you're nicked?
43:23I think I tried that once or twice when I was a younger man.
43:26It doesn't matter.
43:27No one's reporting it.
43:29It doesn't matter what it is.
43:30We're just getting frozen out.
43:32So try harder.
43:33What?
43:34Try harder.
43:35Stop pussyfooting around.
43:37I think this is pussyfooting.
43:38I put my paper on the line.
43:39I put myself on the line.
43:40You're not nailing people.
43:41You're not asking the right questions.
43:42Oh, you're a journalist now.
43:46Why was your Neville email not passed on?
43:48Print the photo on your front page of Assistant Commissioner John Yates and Rebecca Brooks sitting together at the Police Bravery Award.
43:57What is that together?
43:58Print what she said in Parliament.
44:00We have paid the police for information and say that doesn't even go halfway to the truth.
44:05There's a murky swamp out there, Nick.
44:07Top-tier police and the media and that needs reporting.
44:09I'm trying to write about all these things.
44:12Unfortunately, it's speculative and libelous.
44:15You need evidence.
44:16So do I.
44:18Do you want to help?
44:19Give me something concrete.
44:24Alright.
44:25I've dug.
44:27The case.
44:28The Neville email, the hacking.
44:30That case was given to Specialist Operations.
44:33Terrorist branch.
44:34The boss at the time was a guy called Andy Heyman.
44:37I know that name.
44:38He disappeared in retirement in a puff of smoke and then reappeared.
44:43Yeah, writing articles for the Times.
44:45That's why I know the name.
44:46Exactly.
44:48The press goes through the police like a stick of rock.
44:51And News International, not the worst of a lot.
44:55It's still speculative.
44:57Sorry, my friend. I need more.
45:02Aye.
45:08All right.
45:09See ya.
45:10Bye.
45:11See ya.
45:12Bye.
45:13Bye.
45:14Bye.
45:15Bye.
45:18Bye.
45:20Bye.
45:21Bye.
45:23Bye.
45:28Bye.
45:33Bye.
45:34Charlotte, tell me some good news.
45:43It's Max.
45:59Max?
46:01Fucking hell, you brought in.
46:02Max, we've got them on the rack.
46:04You settle, the whole thing gets covered up again.
46:06You've got them on the rack.
46:07With what?
46:08What we need, I can't get.
46:11Stand tall.
46:11Be the man who made a difference.
46:13Be the man.
46:15Do you listen to yourself?
46:16This isn't...
46:17Please, listen to my advice here.
46:19You just want your piece of it.
46:20Oh, your backwards deal.
46:22Well, I like to think I'm better than that.
46:23No one is better than money.
46:25How much?
46:28Oh, go on.
46:29How much?
46:30Fuck off.
46:33How are we tired?
46:39The Murdochs agreed to pay Clifford more than a million pounds.
46:43Some to cover his legal costs.
46:45Most in the form of guaranteed income for stories he would sell them over the next three years.
46:49This meant it could be presented to something other than the payment of damages.
46:53This meant Charlotte didn't get her cut.
46:55This meant it wasn't news.
46:56Nobody was fooled, but it was clever.
47:01Our biggest gun was spiked.
47:07Tonight, history in the making, as we are joined by the leader of the Liberal Democrats, Nick Clegg,
47:13the Conservative Party leader, David Cameron,
47:15and the leader of the Labour Party, Gordon Brown.
47:20The truth is, power and secrecy walk hand in hand.
47:26Power enjoys secrecy because it increases its scope.
47:31Power generates secrecy simply because it can.
47:36Downing Street, Scotland Yard, they're no different to other powerful organisations.
47:40They find secrecy easy, natural, and extremely helpful.
47:46Regardless of whether or not it may cheat the public of information to which they have a profound right.
47:52But, here's the thing about power and secrecy.
47:56If you can expose the secrecy, you might, you might, might,
48:02break the power.
48:04That power knows nothing.
48:24Oh, my God.
48:26Oh, my God.
48:30Oh, my God.
48:32Oh, my God.
48:32Oh, my God.
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