00:00Every 10 minutes a woman is killed by a person close to her.
00:04The stark statistic released by the United Nations,
00:09which noted a clear lack of progress when it comes to reducing the murder of women around the world,
00:17with the majority of those killings by partners or relatives.
00:21Home, it said, was the most dangerous place for a woman.
00:25On this, the International Day for the Elimination of Violence Against Women,
00:29we're looking at issues across a broad spectrum,
00:32the daily abuse and harassment also when it comes to our world online.
00:37In extreme cases, it can also lead to murder there.
00:41To get more insight on it all, we can speak now to a sociologist at the Cardiff School of Art and Design,
00:46Ashley Morgan. Thanks so much for your time.
00:48Can I start simply by asking you, overall, as a society,
00:53it sounds, it reads like we're getting actually worse when it comes to violence against women,
00:57but how do you see it?
00:59I think it's far less about getting worse for women.
01:04It's just much more that there are more outlets that is recording it.
01:09I think violence against women has always existed.
01:13There's quite a lot of research that suggests that.
01:15There are considerably more outlets which say that women are, there's a lot of gender-based violence.
01:24And also, of course, social media has become yet another outlet for men to harass women.
01:29It's also highly problematic for men and their mental health that they are conducting these fairly violent forms against women.
01:38Tell me more about that online element of it, because, you know, online, it's a weird space, isn't it?
01:45It's anonymous and yet not anonymous.
01:48Tell us more the impact that has on both sides in that equation.
01:50Well, one of the really positive things about social media is that it's given many, many women a voice that perhaps they didn't have before.
02:00I don't think there's been a time at which we can, in the past, that we hear women's voices so much so loudly now because social media has allowed women to speak,
02:12to have a platform and to perhaps contradict some things that have been problematic or just to have a presence.
02:21The problem with that is that, as you just said, it's also another area for men to be aggressors.
02:30And online trolling, as we know, is a massive problem.
02:35But one of the interesting things I think has happened in the UK recently is that some people have been charged with online trolling.
02:44And I think that sends out a really positive message to men.
02:48But I don't think that's going to stop men from being violent and expressing themselves in a very violent way.
02:58But on the other hand, women aren't going away.
03:00They will still be on social media and they will still have an active presence.
03:05Yeah, I believe only less than 40 percent of countries have laws to tackle cyber harassment and cyber stalking,
03:12which, of course, is where things need to go.
03:15But until those laws come into place, one wonders how can one best challenge the abuse online?
03:21What can women do to put their protection and blocks and stance in place?
03:28I don't know.
03:29I think to some degree, I mean, it's problematic.
03:31I think when in some of your in your article you had earlier about the the woman, she said that the woman in Paris,
03:41she said that people started to recognize her and she was receiving threats that they would she would be found.
03:49And I think that's a massive issue.
03:52But actually, women should carry on speaking because the more the more we talk, the more people get,
03:58particularly men who perhaps don't want to hear us, will get used to our voices.
04:03There are things that you can do there that you can block people, you can mute people.
04:07But fundamentally, if people want to find you or people want to challenge you, they will do.
04:12But I think actually, considering that women make up half the population,
04:15we should have a voice and we should carry on speaking.
04:19And social media has allowed us that that platform.
04:25But as some of the images that you're showing now, that that's very problematic for women.
04:30But we should carry on speaking.
04:32We shouldn't go anywhere.
04:33We should certainly shouldn't make our voices quieter.
04:37Indeed, as you say, we are the 51 percent.
04:39We're the majority.
04:40You know, there were so many matriarchal societies before.
04:43One wonders what happened to women to allow nearly men to have this power over us.
04:50And, you know, how can we take it back?
04:53I don't think that women ever had any power because patriarchy doesn't allow it.
04:59When you have a system where all men are benefited, the majority of men benefit.
05:06People aren't they're not really going to relinquish power.
05:09And I don't think there was a lot of time where women had a great deal of equity.
05:16And let's not forget, in the UK, for example, all women have is the right to vote and the right to have power over their own finances.
05:27There's very little else that women have.
05:30So I always challenge the idea that feminism has gone too far because there is very little that women have gained, really.
05:39It's just that we have a greater presence.
05:42I don't think we can take anything back, but we can carry on being being a presence and reminding everybody that we do make up half the population and that what we have to say and to do is important.
05:54But the other thing we need, of course, is men's support.
05:57We need men to support us and to stand up for women and say, yes, I absolutely agree that you are half the population and what you have to say is important.
06:06The problem with that is that that doesn't benefit most men.
06:11Because that is something, even when we saw that Me Too movement and those massive protests, I mean, it was very rare to see men taking part and joining those protests.
06:20It was as if they didn't feel concerned, even though, you know, every man has a mother.
06:26Yes, I mean, men are they're not they are largely absent from from protests to encourage and support women.
06:36The problem is, is patriarchal boundaries suppress men who do want to support women.
06:42But also, whenever people talk about women or women's issues or things like safety at night, the entire issue seems to be of women's making, not of men.
06:55And one of the things I try and do in my everyday life and in my feminist activism is try and get the discourse changed, change the discourse around women's safety and start talking about men's problematic behaviours.
07:07Because once you do that, you realise that men have to take control because they are the ones who control, who are in charge and are causing the problems.
07:17But they're also causing problems for other men.
07:20So there are other men who want to step up and help and be allies to women and just to sort of talk about and offer support.
07:27But they're often shouted down as well.
07:29The men, of course, in power at the moment, raising a lot of concerns.
07:33I mean, women's rights in the United States, for example, seem to be taking huge steps backwards.
07:39Absolute retrenchment.
07:40I mean, when Roe versus Wade collapsed in 2022, the writing was very much on the wall then.
07:47And now it seems to be, because you've got federal and state law in America, states are now, some of the states in sort of like North Carolina, they appear to be absolutely out of control and that anything they can do to suppress women is they're going to try and do and they're going to enact that through law.
08:07Also, there are lots of extremely Christian right people in America.
08:15There is talk of them funding groups in the UK, particularly anti-abortion groups.
08:20And I think as a country, we need to we need to reject that outright.
08:26There are law, there are a few more laws in this country, like the law that about distance and abortion clinics, you can't agitate outside an abortion clinic.
08:42It's got to be something like 150 metres away.
08:45In America, all those rights have gone now.
08:48So, but also the problem with America is individual states will start making an example of women and showing what they can do against women.
08:58And that's the thing I find the most problematic is how far can they push laws which suppress women's rights.
09:05And they all seem it seems terribly competitive to me as well.
09:08How far can we push it? And we'll push it as far as we can.
09:11Ashley Morgan, unfortunately, we'd have to leave it there, but it was lovely to speak to you.
09:14Thanks so much for joining us here on France 24.
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