00:00Now, here in France, the National Assembly has approved a bill adding the concept of non-consent to the legal definition of rape.
00:08The proposal, supported by most parties, except the far right, now awaits final approval by the Senate.
00:14The law defines all sexual acts without consent as assault and clarifies that silence cannot imply agreement.
00:20It marks the culmination of two years of parliamentary work and follows the high-profile rape case last year of Giselle Pelico.
00:28We can now bring in Yelena Mandenge, lawyer and feminist activist.
00:33Thank you so much for joining us on the program today.
00:35In your opinion, does this bill go far enough?
00:39I'm an activist in Newtut, and we have been fighting for the implementation of consent in the law.
00:46So for us, it's a huge victory, of course.
00:49It's a first step to erase the culture of rape in our society.
00:54So, of course, it's really good, and we feel like it's a first win.
00:59Of course, law is not enough to erase rape culture, and we still have more fight and more steps to climb, but still.
01:09How does the inclusion of non-consent in the legal definition of rape change the way such cases will be treated going forward?
01:18One of the things that we raise alert in Newtut is, for example, you talk about Giselle Pelico case.
01:25In this case, we had the lawyers of the rapist that were saying, like, oh, okay, maybe there was a sexual act, but we weren't able to prove that the rapist had the intention to rape.
01:41So it was something around that.
01:43Even though she was lying there unconscious.
01:45Yeah, but there were, like, the sexual act is the thing, but we have to prove intention.
01:50And that's because the legal definition of rape wasn't large enough before.
01:55We just had to prove, like, it was supposed to be, like, there was a presumption of consent.
02:01It was, like, the sexual act is supposed to be consensual, and if it's not, it has to be with violence, with threat, or stuff like that.
02:08And the thing that is changing now with the bill is that you assume that any sexual act has to have consent.
02:16So you have to prove that.
02:18Does that mean verbal consent?
02:20It means consent that can be, I mean, that's going to be challenged at court.
02:26The consent, it has to be shown before the sexual act.
02:31It has to be enlightening.
02:34So, obviously, if someone is non-conscious now, there won't be this debate that happened in Giselle Pelico's case.
02:42If the law is put in place, it won't be able to apply because we will see that there is no consent.
02:50So that's why it's more large to see.
02:53Yeah.
02:54Could this new law lead to more convictions?
02:57And do you see any challenges with it?
02:58One of the things that we raise a lot in Newtut is that you have more than 80% of the claims against rape and sexual aggression that led to nothing.
03:13So that's one of the reasons why we wanted to put consent in the law for police officers to be able to have more alerts regarding consent.
03:25To be like, OK, now that we have consent in the law, like we have to check that everything was respected by the other person that is accused of rape.
03:35So we feel like maybe because of that, there's going to be less claims that are just left behind.
03:44But, of course, in addition of the law, there needs to be training for police officers regarding consent to be like, OK, consent is not only when it's verbal and you say yes to the sexual act.
04:00Sometimes you have relations of power that can make the consent less explicit.
04:08I'm sorry to interrupt you there, but how does it work within a marriage, for instance?
04:12Yeah, that's the thing, because most of sexual aggression and rapes happen in the closest relationships.
04:19So that's why it was important to add consent, because before it was a rape was just, as I told you before, violence, threat and everything.
04:27And it's harder to demonstrate when you're in a situation of astonishment or a situation of power, when you have like psychological influence from a husband to the wife, for example.
04:40And it's you don't especially have violence, you don't especially have threats, but it can be in a psychological environment that leads to the rape.
04:52So that's why in a marriage, for example, of course, it can happen.
04:56Supporters of this bill say it marks a shift from a culture of rape to one of consent.
05:02What is this transformation going to look like on an everyday basis?
05:06We feel like, for example, just having this talk is a good thing.
05:09The fact that the consent is going to be put in the law, maybe it's going to be able to raise conversation with people and people are going to be like, OK, maybe now I have to think more about consent and not being like, OK, I'm going to get away with this.
05:26Like, maybe I have to think what is consent to me.
05:29For example, in the Pelico case, you had one of the rapists that were, he was 50 something.
05:35And he was like, before this case, I didn't know.
05:38Nobody taught me what consent is.
05:41So that's one of the things that is.
05:42That comes to my next question, because I remember in my first week when I did my bachelor's in the U.S. in orientation week.
05:50Back then, I remember they taught us no means no.
05:52I was, you know, 18 at the time.
05:56And it's a lesson that I just remember because I remember like we laughed, we joked, but it's a lesson that people remember and don't forget.
06:05Tell me what happens in France.
06:07Yeah, that's actually a good question, because that's why the law is good.
06:10But we still have work to do, because, for example, we have a law that is called Évars law in France that is supposed to, every children is supposed to have at school lessons about sexual consent and sexual education.
06:27Of course, regarding of the age, it's different kind of classes.
06:30But it's like you have a number of mandatory courses about sexual education.
06:36It's a law that have been implemented in 2001.
06:39But right now is not really put in place like the law exists, but people don't apply it.
06:45So that's why that's one of the work we have.
06:48We have a new to be like, OK, this law exists.
06:50It's important to raise awareness around that and to have people that have sexual education, especially when you're children, for example,
06:59because that's how you know the culture of content that you talked about.
07:03Yeah, now we're going to have to leave with that.
07:04Thank you so much for coming in and speaking to us.
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