'Shocking, not surprising': Death of French influencer 'will cast a long shadow over these platforms'

FRANCE 24 English

Visit our website: http://www.france24.com  Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/FRANCE24.English  Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/France24_en

Transcript

00:00For more, we can cross to Rotterdam. Daniel Trottier is an associate professor in the

00:04Department of Media and Communications at Erasmus University, co-author of Digital Media,

00:10Denunciation and Shaming the Court of Public Opinion. Thanks for being with us here on France 24.

00:17Thanks for having me, François.

00:19When you look back, before there was an internet, there were game shows in Japan where contestants

00:26had to endure horrible things. You had the MTV television show Jackass, where people loved

00:34watching people in pain. Is this any different?

00:40In this case, I mean, you have this sort of prolonged relationship in terms of abuse. I would see this

00:49much closer to the early 2000s, the video series Bum Fights, where homeless people were paid

00:55to harm themselves and each other. So they were paid, there was a transaction, but there was

01:00obviously a sense of, yeah, distress and abuse of power to make that footage.

01:06Is it, what does it say about, is this a story about the people producing this show,

01:12or is it a story about those watching the show?

01:17I mean, the whole incident is very shocking. So the idea that, I mean, this is the worst possible

01:24outcome in terms of people and platforms alike, doing whatever it takes to build an online

01:29following. But of course, the audiences, as we learned, are not just passive, that they were

01:34playing an active role in terms of providing money, providing commentary. In other cases,

01:39also sharing with each other, notifying the police. So I think the terrain is much more complicated

01:46than what we would have seen 20 years ago.

01:48French law, 1995, French high court evoking the notion of human dignity in banning what was

01:55so-called dwarf tossing competition. Again, why did this happen, even though there are laws on the

02:05books against it?

02:08Somehow we've lost track of dignity. So I'm glad to hear this word being used in this context. And I think,

02:16again, this logic of if it's gains of following, whether that's a shocked and repulsed following,

02:23or one who's very enthusiastic about it, especially as we just heard on this sort of Wild West platform

02:29that compared to its competitors, not only provides more money to content streamers, but also has less

02:37regulation. I think this is going to cast a very long shadow over these platforms. But when you look at it

02:46from that perspective, you know, it's, it's shocking. That's not controversial. But that it came to this

02:52point. Yeah, it's that aspect is not so surprising.

02:56It's early days yet. We don't have an autopsy at this point. We don't know why he died. We don't know

03:03what his actual mental condition was since he refused to undergo tests. What we do know is that

03:10two of the protagonists on this show were held briefly, were charged, and then there's still a

03:17criminal probe ongoing. We know that it was suspended for one month from this platform Kik,

03:25which is based out of Australia, and then it's back. What does that tell you about the times we live in?

03:31I think, you know, being as charitable as possible, the platforms and everyone who had an oversight

03:40position was probably overwhelmed, or maybe not taking it seriously. But I think, again, the sort

03:47of underlying logic of, you know, controversy shock sells in some capacity, and there's always going to

03:54be a platform that's on that cutting edge, so to speak. I'd like to hope that the seismic impact

04:02that this has will make that more difficult in the coming years. But I think in that sense,

04:09it's shocking and actually not so shocking at the same time.

04:13Is it, in your research, harder? Are authorities overwhelmed? In this case, this is more akin,

04:23and you sort of touched on it, to a streaming site like Twitch, which has a wide audience.

04:30How hard is it for authorities to keep an eye on this stuff?

04:35Compared to 10, 15 years ago, it's actually easier in the sense that there are precedents,

04:45judges, courts, governments have a better sense of this technology. It's a bit like being on a

04:51treadmill, where if you stand still, the technology sort of moves on and overwhelms you. But in terms

04:58of having a legal presence in different countries, at least for the bigger players, it should be,

05:07you know, we should be heading in the right direction. But then if you have these novel

05:10platforms, and what makes them unique is that they are less regulated almost by design.

05:15And yeah, it's, again, not surprising that such a shocking event can happen.

05:23Again, it was my question at the outset about how humans enjoying a spectacle of cruelty,

05:31well, that goes back to the Roman circuses in ancient times. But in this case, when we talk

05:37about this notion of dignity, is it also because people feel kind of detached from it all, that this

05:44is all happening virtually and no longer in the real world?

05:49Yeah, I think with digital media in particular, it's all too easy for audiences to develop a bit

05:56of a cynicism. And, you know, when they see someone in distress, either ignore it or even have a laugh

06:02of that abuse. And this doesn't concern AI, but I would almost say that with that onset of artificial

06:09intelligence, people might become less willing to take such footage seriously, lest they be fooled

06:16by a revelation that it was AI generated. So that sort of detachment from reality, even if we know

06:22the names, even if we know the backstories, somehow, yeah, it's we're dealing with these kind of

06:28these counter-revailing forces. One final question, Daniel Trottier, do you find that humans are

06:34becoming more cruel than they were? I think we often underestimate the historic perspective,

06:43if we look back 100 years, or even not so far back. So my hope is that the shock that this has

06:50triggered is going to bring about more conversations about not only how to prevent these worst possible

06:57outcomes, but to think about dignity alongside other fundamental values. So, yeah, I hope the

07:05pendulum swings in the right direction as a result of this.

07:08Daniel Trottier, so many thanks for speaking with us from Amsterdam, from Rotterdam, excuse me.

07:14Yeah, thank you very much.

Category

Transcript

Be the first to comment

Recommended