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„Ha nem mi, akkor ki?” Az uniós biztos szerint nincs alternatívája a földközi-tengeri paktumnak
Dubravka Šuica uniós biztos megvédte az új földközi-tengeri paktumot azokkal a kritikákkal szemben, amelyek szerint a kezdeményezés az Európai Unió és az arab államok eltérő érdekei miatt már a kezdetek kezdetén kudarcra lenne ítélve.
BŐVEBBEN : http://hu.euronews.com/2025/11/21/ha-nem-mi-akkor-ki-az-unios-biztos-szerint-nincs-alternativaja-a-foldkozi-tengeri-paktumna
Iratkozzon fel: Az Euronews elérhető 12 nyelven
Dubravka Šuica uniós biztos megvédte az új földközi-tengeri paktumot azokkal a kritikákkal szemben, amelyek szerint a kezdeményezés az Európai Unió és az arab államok eltérő érdekei miatt már a kezdetek kezdetén kudarcra lenne ítélve.
BŐVEBBEN : http://hu.euronews.com/2025/11/21/ha-nem-mi-akkor-ki-az-unios-biztos-szerint-nincs-alternativaja-a-foldkozi-tengeri-paktumna
Iratkozzon fel: Az Euronews elérhető 12 nyelven
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00:00Hello and welcome to the Europe Conversation. I'm Stefan Grober.
00:12My guest today is Dubravka Suica, EU Commissioner for the Mediterranean.
00:17And as a former mayor of the Croatian coastal city of Dubrovnik, she knows what she's talking about.
00:23Commissioner, thank you so much for coming on the show today.
00:26Thank you for having me today.
00:27So let's kick it off with the new pact for the Mediterranean that the European Commission presented a few weeks ago.
00:34What is the pact all about and why should we take it seriously?
00:39The pact is genuine pact, which means it's not only yet another document.
00:45It is a pact which we want to have with the southern neighbors.
00:49We already have different documents, agendas, so on.
00:52But this time we want to have a real partnership and we want to have these people as partnerships of equal,
01:00which means that we changed the approach this time.
01:03We asked these people and we consulted all 10 member states plus Gulf countries.
01:10And we didn't consult only governments, but also think tanks, academia, non-governmental organizations in order to have this pact.
01:20Because at one stage, people in the Mediterranean felt a little bit left behind because our highlight was on Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Western Balkans.
01:32Yeah, you were just alluding to it that we're already 30 years ago with the beginning of the Barcelona process.
01:38Then was the union for the Mediterranean, the new agenda for the Mediterranean.
01:42None of these things yielded any sizable results.
01:46Why should we be looking forward to seeing something different now?
01:51We put people at the center.
01:54We consulted people.
01:56And we also we are talking about economies, how to invite European companies to invest in that part of the world in order to develop them.
02:07So we are changing paradigm.
02:10They are not only receivers of our donations, but we want to help them to develop their industries, to develop their countries and to open new jobs.
02:22By opening new jobs, we are somehow tackling root causes of migration.
02:28So we are opening legal pathways for those who want to come to Europe.
02:31But at the same time, we are opening new jobs for these young people.
02:36You know that I'm also in charge of demography, so it is very important to put demography in balance.
02:42You know that they are booming in that part of the world.
02:44We are shrinking here in Europe.
02:46So it is very important to balance this.
02:48So by having these people here in Europe, it's not to create brain drain there.
02:54It's to have brain circulation and it's to give opportunity for those who are skilled and who are educated to come here,
03:03but at the same time to stay in their countries and to develop their countries.
03:09It's in fact a completely new philosophy around the Mediterranean.
03:12You know that we need energy.
03:15You know that we want to change to renewable energies.
03:18You know that we want to decarbonize the region.
03:20So if we decarbonize the region from this side, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Cyprus,
03:28but if we don't use the same standards in the southern part of the Mediterranean,
03:33then the sea and the Mediterranean region will be polluted again.
03:37So we want to, by doing all this, we have win-win-win-win situation,
03:43opening new jobs, developing these countries, decarbonizing the region.
03:48So everything is there?
03:50There are critics out there who have already said that this project is dead on arrival
03:55by pointing to the various countries that we're talking about here.
03:59So take Libya, for instance, where the Russians and the Turks are major players.
04:05Take Algeria, Lebanon, Tunisia, who haven't shown any interest in Europe.
04:09And then Morocco, with which Brussels is sort of at loggerheads over the Western Sahara.
04:15Don't we have too much on our plate here?
04:19Are these interests just too different?
04:21I can reply with counter-question.
04:26Who, if we are not there, so who will be there?
04:30So we understand that there is China, there is Russia, there are countries who have interest in this part of the world,
04:36but Europe wants to be present.
04:38And we are saying that, you know, that we are always paying and we are the biggest payers to these countries.
04:45We don't want to be only payers.
04:47We also want to be players.
04:49And this is why we are changing now.
04:51Of course, it's not easy always, but we will do our best.
04:55You know that we have strategic partnership agreements with Egypt, with Tunisia.
05:00We signed one with Jordan.
05:02We are now just about to sign deeper strategic partnership with Morocco,
05:06because they are our neighbors and we want to be present there.
05:11And this is what we have been doing.
05:12Of course, it's not always easy.
05:14So I won't say that the project is dead.
05:17On the contrary, we will, of course, not celebrate,
05:21but mark 30th anniversary of Barcelona declaration on the 28th of this month.
05:28And this will be the moment to present this back to 10 southern neighbors,
05:33but also to 27 European member states.
05:36So it's up to us.
05:38It's up to us.
05:39So Ursula von der Leyen has said that the Commission's goal is progressive integration.
05:45Now, that seems a bit distant today.
05:49Can you name a few very concrete things about why people should be excited about this?
05:59So, of course, it's not about integration,
06:01but economic integration could come out from our cooperation with them.
06:07So it's also about skills and education.
06:13One of the most important flagship projects for me would be Mediterranean University.
06:19What is my goal?
06:20My goal is, and the goal of my colleagues,
06:22is to establish alliance or network of Mediterranean universities,
06:27starting from Beirut to Alexandria, Fes, Marseille, Barcelona, Naples and Greece.
06:36So to have curricula on Mediterranean at the existing universities.
06:43So we don't want to build new premises,
06:45but we want to connect young people from the region
06:47by connecting young people,
06:50by studying about their background,
06:55about culture, heritage, about religion.
06:58We can come closer.
07:00And this is our main goal,
07:01because Mediterranean,
07:03we want to have Mediterranean as the bridge,
07:06not as the conflict zone,
07:07which is at the moment.
07:09So we want to change the situation.
07:12And this is exactly why we are turning our attention to the Mediterranean.
07:16It's not only Mediterranean,
07:17it's also Gulf countries,
07:19although they are not geographically Mediterranean,
07:22but we badly need Gulf countries to have,
07:24we need them on board,
07:26in order to have peace and security in the Mediterranean, of course.
07:29So this is something which we are trying to establish.
07:33Of course, it's also about migration.
07:36I don't want to shy away from migration,
07:39but we want to stop migration by doing this,
07:43by helping young people to develop,
07:47and by helping young people to be part of this process.
07:51There are many projects,
07:54for example, in Egypt.
07:56In Egypt, we pledged,
07:58European companies pledged,
08:00after we signed this comprehensive partnership agreement,
08:04we pledged 49 billion euros investments in Egypt.
08:09So the same goes for Tunisia.
08:11In Jordan, we are just about to start some projects.
08:15So this is something which is ongoing.
08:17Morocco, you mentioned Morocco versus Sahara.
08:19We found a solution,
08:21and we are on good terms with our colleagues in Morocco,
08:25and we are looking forward to deepening this agreement.
08:29Speaking of solutions,
08:30and let me now pivot to the Middle East,
08:32which is also part of the Mediterranean family,
08:34and I'm talking about, of course,
08:36the first meeting of the new group being established by the EU
08:40to support Palestinians,
08:42the Palestinian Authority,
08:44and the reconstruction of the Gaza Strip.
08:48Tell us about this group.
08:49Who is in it?
08:51And what's happening next?
08:53First of all,
08:54you know that we are trying to strengthen the Palestinian Authority,
08:57and this is our main goal.
08:59This is the reason why we invested from 2021 to 2024,
09:03for 1.3 billion euro.
09:05And now there is a new reform matrix program for this year, next year in 27,
09:111.6 billion euro.
09:13Of course, this money will be dispersed upon conditions.
09:18Of course, conditions are reforms which they are obliged to do.
09:21What we are trying to do,
09:23there will be a Palestine donor group,
09:25and it will be established by the Commission,
09:28in co-ownership with the Palestine Authority.
09:32So I will be chairing this group together with Mustafa,
09:36prime minister of Palestine.
09:38So Palestine donor group is a new platform where we will discuss their reforms.
09:46We will discuss what we can do to empower them,
09:50to encourage them to be stronger than they are at the moment.
09:54Of course, Hamas is out of question.
09:57We don't talk to these people,
09:58only to the people of the Palestine Authority.
10:01So there will be,
10:02at this moment, so far as I know,
10:04there will be 60 participants,
10:06all 27 member states,
10:08plus states,
10:10plus the region,
10:11and some other people who were invited from our partner countries and allies.
10:17So we will be trying to show that Palestine Authority can,
10:22at one point,
10:24or could at one point,
10:26take over some of the services in the country,
10:29not only in West Bank,
10:31but also later in Gaza.
10:32Now, the Palestinian Authority is a kind of a controversial body,
10:36if I may say.
10:37The Gulf states, for example, that you mentioned,
10:40they don't trust it.
10:42How do you get along with these guys,
10:44and how do you pressure the Palestinian Authority
10:47to implement reform,
10:51good governance,
10:52transparency,
10:53fight against corruption, etc.?
10:55We need solutions.
10:57We have Hamas.
10:58We don't want to talk to Hamas.
10:59Then we need some regular authority,
11:03which is Palestine Authority for us.
11:05And as I told,
11:07the money which we are investing there
11:10is conditioned.
11:12And it's all the money which we pay
11:14for Palestine Authority
11:15is done under Pegaz mechanism,
11:17which means that none or no cent
11:21is being dispersed without conditions.
11:24Reforms, and this is what we have been doing.
11:27So who,
11:28if we don't have them,
11:30so who will be in Palestine?
11:33We need someone,
11:34also Israel,
11:35they need someone to talk.
11:37So who will sit at the table
11:38once the situation,
11:41the situation allows,
11:43who will sit at the table?
11:44Palestine Authority plus Israel,
11:47but they need to be reformed.
11:50And this is our precondition.
11:53To say that the EU is divided
11:56over the Gaza situation
11:58is a kind of an understatement.
12:00So there are some countries
12:01that have recognized a Palestinian state,
12:04others haven't.
12:06Does that complicate your job
12:09and getting reconstruction going?
12:13Of course,
12:13it would be much easier
12:14if all of them recognize,
12:16but it won't change the situation.
12:19We have to reconstruct Gaza,
12:22but not only us.
12:23Europe cannot do it alone.
12:25This is why I said
12:26we need the Gulf countries,
12:28but we also need
12:29the American administration.
12:30And this is something
12:31which we have to be open
12:33and clear on it.
12:34So now, as you know,
12:35we have this 20 points program,
12:38which means that
12:39we have to move forward.
12:41And this is the only way.
12:43Of course,
12:43we need Israel to have on board.
12:45We need them to release tax revenues
12:48for Palestine people,
12:49which is not the case.
12:51We need many different commitments,
12:54also from Israel.
12:55Of course,
12:56they are not in favor of two-state solution,
12:59but little by little,
13:00they need to say
13:01what do they want in the end.
13:03That ceasefire agreement
13:05that was established
13:06under the auspices
13:08of the Trump administration
13:09stipulates a board of peace.
13:12Will the EU have a seat
13:13at that table?
13:16If we talk about fair play,
13:21then we should have a seat
13:23in this peace board for sure,
13:25because as I said,
13:26we are the biggest,
13:28not only donors,
13:28but the biggest payers.
13:30And we are the ones
13:31who are involved.
13:33And they are our neighbors.
13:35We are the closest neighbors.
13:36So I think that
13:37we should have a place
13:39in this board.
13:40Which basically means
13:41Trump hasn't said,
13:42sit over here.
13:44Let's see.
13:46Let's see.
13:46Let's see.
13:47This will happen.
13:48When talking about
13:49the reconstruction of Gaza,
13:50do you have an idea
13:51about the timeline,
13:52about the money
13:53that needs to be moved
13:56and invested,
13:57ballpark number?
13:58It was not by coincidence
14:00that Gulf countries
14:01are mentioned.
14:02So we need Arab countries,
14:04Gulf countries
14:05to be on board.
14:06We need them to invest
14:07and I'm sure
14:08that they will do it.
14:10Of course,
14:11we will also do our part,
14:14but Europe cannot do it alone,
14:15as I told you.
14:17And we are looking forward
14:19to this ceasefire
14:20to hold first.
14:21If this ceasefire holds,
14:23then we can talk
14:24about reconstruction.
14:25And I think
14:26that there will be
14:28a lot of money
14:29from different
14:30world money,
14:33financial institutions
14:35who will come on board.
14:37It's also about
14:37World Bank,
14:38it's about
14:38European Investment Bank,
14:40it's about EBRD.
14:41So all institutions
14:43should be on board.
14:44Now,
14:45all of this
14:45can only work
14:46if Israel
14:48and Hamas
14:49respect
14:49the ceasefire agreement
14:51that we just talked about.
14:52And I think
14:54the most crucial point
14:55here is the disarmament
14:56of Hamas.
14:58Will Hamas
14:59render the weapons?
15:01Do you see this coming
15:02anytime soon?
15:04I cannot tell you
15:06whether this will happen
15:07or not,
15:08but I think
15:08that this should happen
15:10because without
15:11laying down
15:12the weapons
15:13from Hamas' side,
15:15I don't think
15:16that there will be
15:17a ceasefire.
15:17so I'm sure
15:18that the world
15:20should pressure
15:21not only us
15:22for European Union
15:23but also Americans
15:25should pressure
15:25Hamas to do it.
15:27Commissioner,
15:28you're also in charge
15:29of demography
15:30and I've looked
15:32at the description
15:33of your official mission
15:35and it says there
15:37that you're responsible
15:38for,
15:38and I quote,
15:39steering the implementation
15:40of the demography
15:42toolbox
15:43to help member states
15:44address their
15:45demographic challenges.
15:47So,
15:48what is in your
15:49demographic toolbox?
15:51There is a lot.
15:53First,
15:53it's about women
15:54and families
15:56who should be
15:57in the labor market.
15:58When we talk
15:58about demography
15:59here in Europe,
16:00we talk from
16:01a competitive angle
16:02because we are not
16:04talking about
16:04birth race,
16:05mortality race,
16:06it's member state
16:07competence according
16:07to the treaty.
16:09But we have to,
16:11at this moment,
16:12there are 8 million
16:13European women
16:14who are not
16:14in the labor market
16:15because they have
16:16to take care
16:16about their kid
16:18or about their parent.
16:20So,
16:20we want to have
16:21all women
16:22in the labor market.
16:23Second,
16:24we want to have
16:25all youngsters
16:26to be in the labor market,
16:27not anymore those
16:28not in education,
16:30not in employment,
16:33so-called needs.
16:34But the problem
16:35is that they have diploma,
16:37but their diploma
16:38don't match
16:40to the needs
16:40of the labor market.
16:43We have new jobs,
16:44digital jobs,
16:45artificial intelligence,
16:47and green jobs.
16:48So,
16:49they need to be adapted
16:50and this is the reason
16:51why we re-skill
16:52and up-skill them.
16:54Then there is
16:54a key problem
16:55which is,
16:57which is,
16:58if we retire too early,
17:00if we retire too early,
17:02we create brain drain.
17:03So,
17:04this is also
17:04member state competence.
17:06You know,
17:06that happened in France
17:07when they started
17:08changing this pension age
17:10from 62 to 64.
17:13But since we live longer,
17:15we live 10 years longer
17:16in last 50 years.
17:18In Europe,
17:19we live 10 years longer,
17:20so we have to work longer.
17:21This is not very opportune
17:23for a politician to say,
17:24but this is something
17:25which we have to adapt
17:27our life expectancy
17:30to the working age.
17:33And this is all our laws
17:35and our legislation
17:36is adapted only to 65.
17:3870,
17:39but not to 80,
17:4090,
17:40100,
17:41which is now the case.
17:42And when we use
17:43all these three women,
17:45youngsters,
17:46and those who don't go
17:48early to retirement,
17:50we still need people
17:51in European labor market.
17:53And then there is
17:54fourth pillar
17:55which is legal migration.
17:58So,
17:58human capital is precious
17:59and unfortunately,
18:01we miss this human capital.
18:03We have a projection.
18:04If each and every
18:05European woman
18:07in the next five years
18:08who is in a productive age
18:11would have five kids.
18:13I don't know
18:13whether it's biologically possible,
18:14but in five years,
18:15five kids.
18:17If this happens,
18:18these kids
18:19will be ready
18:20for labor market
18:21in 20 to 25 years.
18:23in the meantime,
18:25China,
18:26India,
18:27our allies in America,
18:28they are booming
18:29and European competitiveness
18:31is being decreased.
18:33And this is the reason
18:34why we badly need
18:36people and human capital.
18:37On this population decline
18:40in the EU,
18:41what are the reasons
18:43and are there
18:44regional disparities?
18:46There are regional disparities,
18:48but the reasons are
18:49sociological,
18:51philosophical.
18:52There is no
18:53black and white reply.
18:58There are disparities,
18:59but
19:00there is no silver bullet
19:03to change this.
19:04So there should be
19:07a set of measures
19:08in order to change this.
19:10But as I told you,
19:11it can't be changed
19:13in a year or two.
19:17This is a long-term objective
19:18of the European Union.
19:20We have to work on it.
19:22Disparities,
19:23for example,
19:23if you look at
19:24the Baltic states
19:25in Finland,
19:27they have the lowest
19:28birth rate at the moment.
19:29Although they are
19:30very rich,
19:31they have all standards.
19:33So it depends on women,
19:35it depends on their...
19:36I cannot reply
19:39to this question
19:41in, as I said,
19:42in a white and black manner.
19:45I totally understand that.
19:47All right.
19:47Dubravka Suitsa,
19:48EU commissioner
19:49for the Mediterranean.
19:51Thank you so much
19:52for a great
19:52Europe conversation.
19:54Thank you for having me.
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