La commissaire européenne ne voit pas d'alternative au Pacte pour la Méditerranée

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La commissaire européenne ne voit pas d'alternative au Pacte pour la Méditerranée  La commissaire européenne Dubravka Šuica a défendu le nouveau Pacte pour la Méditerranée contre les critiques selon lesquelles cette initiative serait vouée à l'échec en raison des intérêts divergents entre l'Union européenne et les États arabes du sud.  LIRE L’ARTICLE : http://fr.euronews.com/2025/11/21/la-commissaire-europeenne-ne-voit-pas-dalternative-au-pacte-pour-la-mediterranee  Abonnez-vous à notre chaine. Euronews est disponible sur Dailymotion en 12 langues

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00:00Hello and welcome to the Europe Conversation, I'm Stefan Grober.

00:12My guest today is Dubravka Suitsa, EU Commissioner for the Mediterranean.

00:17And as a former mayor of the Croatian coastal city of Dubrovnik, she knows what she's talking about.

00:23Commissioner, thank you so much for coming on the show today.

00:26Thank you for having me today.

00:27So let's kick it off with the new pact for the Mediterranean that the European Commission presented a few weeks ago.

00:34What is the pact all about and why should we take it seriously?

00:39The pact is genuine pact, which means it's not only yet another document.

00:45It is pact which we want to have with the southern neighbours.

00:49We already have different documents, agendas, so on.

00:52But this time we want to have a real partnership and we want to have these people as partnerships of equal.

01:00Which means that we changed the approach this time.

01:03We asked these people and we consulted all 10 member states plus Gulf countries.

01:10And we didn't consult only governments, but also think tanks, academia, non-governmental organisations in order to have this pact.

01:20Because at one stage, people in the Mediterranean felt a little bit left behind because our highlight was on Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Western Balkans.

01:32Yeah, you were just alluding to it that we're already 30 years ago with the beginning of the Barcelona process.

01:38Then was the union for the Mediterranean, the new agenda for the Mediterranean.

01:42None of these things yielded any sizable results.

01:46Why should we be looking forward to seeing something different now?

01:51We put people at the centre.

01:54We consulted people.

01:56And we also, we are talking about economies.

02:00How to invite European companies to invest in that part of the world in order to develop them.

02:07So we are changing paradigm.

02:10They are not only receivers of our donations, but we want to help them to develop their industries, to develop their countries and to open new jobs.

02:22By opening new jobs, we are somehow tackling root causes of migration.

02:28So we are opening legal pathways for those who want to come to Europe.

02:31But at the same time, we are opening new jobs for these young people.

02:36You know that I'm also in charge of demography, so it is very important to put demography in balance.

02:42You know that they are booming in that part of the world.

02:44We are shrinking here in Europe.

02:46So it is very important to balance this.

02:48So by having these people here in Europe, it's not to create brain drain there.

02:54It's to have brain circulation and it's to give opportunity for those who are skilled and who are educated to come here,

03:03but at the same time to stay in their countries and to develop their countries.

03:09It's in fact a completely new philosophy around the Mediterranean.

03:12You know that we need energy.

03:15You know that we want to change to renewable energies.

03:18You know that we want to decarbonize the region.

03:20So if we decarbonize the region from this side, France, Spain, Italy, Greece, Cyprus,

03:28but if we don't use the same standards in the southern part of the Mediterranean,

03:33then the sea and the Mediterranean region will be polluted again.

03:37So we want to, by doing all this, we have win-win-win-win situation,

03:43opening new jobs, developing these countries, decarbonizing the region.

03:48So everything is there?

03:50There are critics out there who have already said that this project is dead on arrival

03:55by pointing to the various countries that we're talking about here.

03:59So take Libya, for instance, where the Russians and the Turks are major players.

04:05Take Algeria, Lebanon, Tunisia, who haven't shown any interest in Europe.

04:09And then Morocco, with which Brussels is sort of at loggerheads over the Western Sahara.

04:15Don't we have too much on our plate here?

04:19Are these interests just too different?

04:21I can reply with counter-question.

04:26Who, if we are not there, so who will be there?

04:30So we understand that there is China, there is Russia,

04:33there are countries who have interest in this part of the world,

04:36but Europe wants to be present.

04:38And we are saying that, you know, that we are always paying

04:42and we are the biggest payers to these countries.

04:46We don't want to be only payers.

04:47We also want to be players.

04:49And this is why we are changing now.

04:51Of course, it's not easy always, but we will do our best.

04:55You know that we have strategic partnership agreements with Egypt, with Tunisia.

05:00We signed one with Jordan.

05:02We are now just about to sign deeper strategic partnership with Morocco

05:06because they are our neighbors and we want to be present there.

05:11And this is what we have been doing.

05:12Of course, it's not always easy.

05:14So I won't say that the project is dead.

05:17On the contrary, we will, of course, not celebrate,

05:21but mark 30th anniversary of Barcelona declaration on the 28th of this month.

05:28And this will be the moment to present this back to 10 southern neighbors,

05:33but also to 27 European member states.

05:36So it's up to us.

05:38It's up to us.

05:39So Ursula von der Leyen has said that the Commission's goal is progressive integration.

05:45Now, that seems a bit distant today.

05:49Can you name a few very concrete things about why people should be excited about this?

05:59So, of course, it's not about integration,

06:01but economic integration could come out from our cooperation with them.

06:07So it's also about skills and education.

06:13One of the most important flagship projects for me would be Mediterranean University.

06:19What is my goal?

06:20My goal is, and the goal of my colleagues,

06:22is to establish alliance or network of Mediterranean universities,

06:27starting from Beirut to Alexandria, Fes, Marseille, Barcelona, Naples and Greece.

06:36So to have curricula on Mediterranean at the existing universities.

06:43So we don't want to build new premises,

06:45but we want to connect young people from the region

06:47by connecting young people,

06:50by studying about their background,

06:55about culture, heritage, about religion.

06:58We can come closer.

07:00And this is our main goal,

07:01because Mediterranean,

07:03we want to have Mediterranean as the bridge,

07:06not as the conflict zone,

07:07which is at the moment.

07:09So we want to change the situation.

07:12And this is exactly why we are turning our attention to the Mediterranean.

07:16It's not only Mediterranean,

07:17it's also Gulf countries,

07:19although they are not geographically Mediterranean,

07:22but we badly need Gulf countries to have,

07:24we need them on board,

07:26in order to have peace and security in the Mediterranean, of course.

07:29So this is something which we are trying to establish.

07:33Of course, it's also about migration.

07:36I don't want to shy away from migration,

07:39but we want to stop migration by doing this,

07:43by helping young people to develop,

07:47and by helping young people to be part of this process.

07:51There are many projects,

07:54for example, in Egypt.

07:56In Egypt, we pledged,

07:58European companies pledged,

08:00after we signed this comprehensive partnership agreement,

08:04we pledged 49 billion euros investments in Egypt.

08:09So the same goes for Tunisia.

08:11In Jordan, we are just about to start some projects.

08:15So this is something which is ongoing.

08:17Morocco, you mentioned Morocco versus Sahara.

08:19We found a solution,

08:21and we are on good terms with our colleagues in Morocco,

08:25and we are looking forward to deepening this agreement.

08:29Speaking of solutions,

08:30and let me now pivot to the Middle East,

08:32which is also part of the Mediterranean family,

08:34and I'm talking about, of course,

08:36the first meeting of the new group being established by the EU

08:40to support Palestinians,

08:42the Palestinian Authority,

08:44and the reconstruction of the Gaza Strip.

08:48Tell us about this group.

08:49who is in it,

08:51and what's happening next.

08:53First of all,

08:54you know that we are trying to strengthen the Palestinian Authority,

08:57and this is our main goal.

08:59This is the reason why we invested from 2021 to 2024,

09:031.3 billion euro.

09:05And now there is a new reform matrix program for this year,

09:10next year in 27,

09:111.6 billion euro.

09:14Of course,

09:14this money will be dispersed upon conditions.

09:18Of course,

09:18conditions are reforms which they are obliged to do.

09:21What we are trying to do,

09:23there will be a Palestine donor group,

09:25and it will be established by the commission,

09:27in co-ownership with the Palestinian Authority.

09:32So I will be chairing this group together with Mustafa,

09:35the prime minister of Palestine.

09:39So Palestine donor group is a new platform

09:43where we will discuss their reforms,

09:46we will discuss what we can do to empower them,

09:50to encourage them to be stronger than they are at the moment.

09:55Of course,

09:55Hamas is out of question.

09:57We don't talk to these people,

09:58only to the people of the Palestine Authority.

10:00So there will be,

10:02at this moment,

10:03so far as I know,

10:04there will be 60 participants,

10:06all 27 member states,

10:08plus states,

10:10plus the region,

10:11and some other people who were invited

10:14from our partner countries and allies.

10:17So we will be trying to show

10:20that Palestine authority can at one point,

10:24or could at one point,

10:26take over some of the services in the country,

10:29not only in West Bank,

10:31but also later in Gaza.

10:32Now,

10:32the Palestinian Authority

10:34is a kind of a controversial body,

10:36if I may say.

10:37The Gulf states,

10:38for example,

10:39that you mentioned,

10:40they don't trust it.

10:42How do you get along with these guys,

10:44and how do you pressure

10:45the Palestinian Authority

10:47to implement reform,

10:51good governance,

10:52transparency,

10:53fight against corruption,

10:54et cetera?

10:55We need solutions.

10:57We have Hamas,

10:58we don't want to talk to Hamas,

10:59then we need some regular authority,

11:03which is Palestine authority for us.

11:05And as I told,

11:07the money which we are investing there

11:10is conditioned.

11:12And it's all the money

11:13which we pay for Palestine authority

11:15is done under Pegaz mechanism,

11:17which means that none or no cent

11:21is being dispersed without conditions.

11:24Reforms,

11:24reforms,

11:25and this is what we have been doing.

11:27So,

11:28who,

11:28if we don't have them?

11:30So,

11:31who will be in Palestine?

11:32We need someone,

11:34also Israel.

11:36They need someone to talk.

11:37So,

11:37who will sit at the table

11:38once the situation,

11:41the situation allows,

11:43who will sit at the table?

11:44Palestine authority

11:45plus Israel,

11:46plus Israel,

11:47but they need to be reformed.

11:50And this is our precondition.

11:53To say that the EU is divided

11:56over the Gaza situation

11:58is a kind of an understatement.

12:00So,

12:00there are some countries

12:01that have recognized

12:02a Palestinian state,

12:04others haven't.

12:06Does that complicate your job

12:09in getting reconstruction going?

12:12Of course,

12:13it would be much easier

12:14if all of them recognize,

12:16but it won't change the situation.

12:19We have to reconstruct Gaza,

12:22but not only us.

12:23Europe cannot do it alone.

12:25This is why I said

12:26we need Gulf countries,

12:28but we also need

12:29American administration.

12:30And this is something

12:31which we have to be

12:32open and clear on it.

12:34So now,

12:34as you know,

12:35we have this 20 points program,

12:38which means that

12:39we have to move forward.

12:41and this is the only way.

12:43Of course,

12:43we need Israel to have on board.

12:45We need them to release tax revenues

12:48for Palestine people,

12:49which is not the case.

12:51We need many different commitments

12:54also from Israel.

12:55Of course,

12:56they are not in favor

12:58of two-state solution,

12:59but little by little,

13:00they need to say

13:01what do they want in the end.

13:03That ceasefire agreement

13:05that was established

13:06under the auspices

13:08of the Trump administration

13:09stipulates a board of peace.

13:12Will the EU have a seat

13:13at that table?

13:16If we talk about fair play,

13:21then we should have a seat

13:23in this peace board for sure,

13:25because as I said,

13:26we are the biggest,

13:27not only donors,

13:28but the biggest payers.

13:30and we are the ones

13:31who are involved.

13:33They are our neighbors.

13:35We are the closest neighbors.

13:36So I think that

13:37we should have a place

13:39in this board.

13:40Which basically means

13:41Trump hasn't said,

13:42sit over here.

13:44Let's see.

13:45Let's see.

13:46Let's see.

13:47This will happen.

13:48When talking about

13:49the reconstruction of Gaza,

13:50do you have an idea

13:51about the timeline,

13:52about the money

13:53that needs to be moved

13:56and invested,

13:57ballpark number?

13:58It was not by coincidence

14:00that Gulf countries

14:01are mentioned,

14:02so we need Arab countries,

14:04Gulf countries

14:05to be on board.

14:06We need them to invest,

14:07and I'm sure

14:08that they will do it.

14:10Of course,

14:11we will also do our part,

14:14but Europe cannot do it alone

14:15as I told you.

14:17And we are looking forward

14:19to this ceasefire

14:20to halt first.

14:22If this ceasefire holds,

14:23then we can talk

14:24about reconstruction.

14:26And I think that

14:27there will be a lot of money

14:29from different world money,

14:33financial institutions

14:35who will come on board.

14:37It's also about World Bank.

14:38It's about European Investment Bank.

14:40It's about EBRD.

14:41So all institutions

14:43should be on board.

14:43Now, all of this

14:45can only work

14:46if Israel and Hamas

14:49respect the ceasefire agreement

14:51that we just talked about.

14:52And I think

14:54the most crucial point here

14:55is the disarmament

14:56of Hamas.

14:58Will Hamas

14:59render the weapons?

15:01Do you see this coming

15:02anytime soon?

15:03I cannot tell you

15:06whether this will happen

15:07or not,

15:08but I think

15:08that this should happen

15:10because without

15:11laying down

15:12the weapons

15:13from Hamas' side,

15:15I don't think

15:16that there will be

15:17a ceasefire.

15:18So I'm sure

15:18that the world

15:20should pressure

15:21not only us

15:22for the European Union,

15:23but also Americans

15:25should pressure

15:25Hamas to do it.

15:27Commissioner,

15:28you're also in charge

15:29of demography

15:30and I've looked

15:32at the description

15:33of your official mission

15:35and it says there

15:37that you're responsible

15:38for,

15:38and I quote,

15:39steering the implementation

15:40of the demography

15:42toolbox

15:43to help member states

15:44address their

15:45demographic challenges.

15:47So,

15:48what is in your

15:49demographic toolbox?

15:51There is a lot.

15:53First,

15:53it's about women

15:54and families

15:56who should be

15:57in the labor market.

15:58When we talk

15:58about demography

15:59here in Europe,

16:00we talk from

16:01a competitive angle

16:02because we are not

16:04talking about

16:04birth race,

16:05mortality race,

16:06it's member state

16:07competence according

16:07to the treaty.

16:09But we have to,

16:11at this moment,

16:12there are 8 million

16:13European women

16:14who are not

16:14in the labor market

16:15because they have

16:16to take care

16:16about their kid

16:18or about their parent.

16:20So,

16:20we want to have

16:21all women

16:22in the labor market.

16:23Second,

16:24we want to have

16:25all youngsters

16:26to be in the labor market,

16:27not anymore those

16:28not in education,

16:30not in employment,

16:33so-called needs.

16:34But the problem is

16:35that they have diploma,

16:37but their diploma

16:38don't match

16:40to the needs

16:40of the labor market.

16:43We have new jobs,

16:44digital jobs,

16:45artificial intelligence,

16:46and green jobs,

16:48so they need

16:49to be adapted

16:50and this is the reason

16:51why we re-skill

16:52and up-skill them.

16:54Then there is

16:54a key problem

16:55which is

16:56if we retire

17:00too early,

17:00if we retire

17:01too early,

17:02we create brain drain.

17:03so this is also

17:04member state competence.

17:06You know what happened

17:06in France

17:07when they started

17:08changing this

17:09pension age,

17:10Gilets jaunes,

17:11from 62 to 64,

17:13but since we live longer,

17:15we live 10 years longer

17:16in the last 50 years.

17:18In Europe,

17:19we live 10 years longer,

17:20so we have to work longer.

17:21This is not very opportune

17:23for a politician to say,

17:24but this is something

17:25which we have to adapt

17:27our life expectancy

17:30to the working age.

17:33And this is all our laws

17:35and our legislation

17:36is adapted only to 65,

17:3870,

17:39but not to 80,

17:4090,

17:40100,

17:41which is now the case.

17:42And when we use

17:43all these three women,

17:45youngsters,

17:46and those who don't go

17:48early to retirement,

17:50we still need people

17:51in European labor market.

17:53And then there is

17:54fourth pillar,

17:55which is legal migration.

17:58So human capital

17:59is precious

17:59and unfortunately

18:00we miss this human capital.

18:03We have a projection.

18:04If each and every

18:05European woman

18:07in the next five years

18:08who is in their

18:10productive age

18:11would have five kids.

18:13I don't know

18:13whether it's

18:13biologically possible,

18:14but in five years,

18:15five kids.

18:17If this happens,

18:18these kids

18:19will be ready

18:20for labor market

18:21in 20 to 25 years.

18:24In the meantime,

18:25China,

18:26India,

18:27our allies in America,

18:28they are booming

18:29and European competitiveness

18:31is being decreased.

18:33And this is the reason

18:34why we badly need

18:36people and human capital.

18:37On this population decline

18:40in the EU,

18:41what are the reasons

18:43and are there

18:44regional disparities?

18:46There are regional disparities,

18:48but the reasons are

18:49sociological,

18:51philosophical.

18:52There is no

18:53black and white reply.

18:57There are disparities,

18:59but there is no

19:02silver bullet

19:03to change this.

19:04Right.

19:04so there should be

19:07a set of measures

19:08in order to change this.

19:10But as I told you,

19:11it can't be changed

19:13in a year or two.

19:16It's a long-term,

19:17this is long-term objective

19:19of the European Union.

19:20We have to work on it.

19:22Disparities,

19:23for example,

19:23if you look at

19:24the Baltic states

19:25in Finland,

19:27they have the lowest

19:28birth rate at the moment,

19:29although they are

19:30very rich,

19:32they have all standards.

19:33So it depends on women,

19:35depends on their...

19:36I cannot reply

19:39to this question,

19:41as I said,

19:42in a white

19:42and black manner.

19:45I totally understand that.

19:47All right.

19:47Dubravka Suitsa,

19:49EU commissioner

19:49for the Mediterranean.

19:51Thank you so much

19:52for a great

19:52Europe conversation.

19:54Thank you for having me.

19:55Thank you.

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