00:00That's right. It's not easy. Maybe I should first tell you that the former speaker is a very close friend.
00:09You were fraternity brothers.
00:11We are fraternity brothers. We were there at the same time in UP. I was ahead of him in a few years.
00:18He joined a fraternity, but now I was the leader of a fraternity. And we were together in Congress.
00:23He was a majority leader, and I acted as a senior deputy majority leader.
00:28So how close will that be? But it's about the country.
00:34We have a hierarchy of values that we espouse, even within our fraternity.
00:39It's always country first. I think Fred Pascualdo told that. He's our fraternity brother.
00:46It's something that has to happen because this country is waiting for redemption.
00:53But we have to be able to make sense out of this crazy episode in our history.
01:05It's crazy. I don't think there's a better word for it because they played with insane amounts of money.
01:11And if you see, if you were watching the hearings in the Senate, they showed a taper full of cash, as if it was nothing.
01:21And that's all hard-earned money of the taxpayers who worked their butts off, who worked their lives off with their blood and sweat.
01:31And they had to pay these taxes, which just came to be play things with people who wanted to play with people's money.
01:42So Martin and then a Celtico, well, maybe in the next few hours, something will come out because we find a case already with the Sandingan Bayan.
01:52And the recommended charges are either plunder, graft, or direct robbery, correct?
02:07With Saltico, yes. Saltico already.
02:09With speaker?
02:10With speaker, everything is possible. Everything is possible.
02:14You told me before on the show that you're actively avoiding plunder as a crime because it's notoriously difficult to prove because of the jurisprudence.
02:25Does it come to that that you feel...
02:27This is the problem here.
02:30Historically, the Supreme Court says what the Supreme Court says is the law.
02:38And when they interpret a statute that was meant to extract accountability in a very liberal manner, then we have a problem.
02:49It is why we are rethinking our options always when we file plunder charges.
02:54Because no one ever gets convicted of plunder.
02:56And some of these theories are just insane.
02:59When you look at the jurisprudence, some of them are just insane.
03:03Some of them, you cannot deal with it.
03:07As a lawyer, it's very hard to absorb if you really were honest with it.
03:12If you were looking at it from an honest point of view.
03:15Right.
03:15So the easier one to prove would be malversation.
03:19Correct.
03:20Malversation, so falsification, that's according to...
03:24When you have most projects, that's actually the case.
03:26Or even some substandard projects, because a project 50, 60, 70, 80% complete, is fully paid with a certification.
03:40I mean, when you fully paid a project, when you paid in full, it means the work is complete.
03:47But most of it is incomplete.
03:49That's why we're looking at that statute to actually send people to jail for life.
03:54At least the more effective one.
03:57Through malversation?
03:59Malversation through falsification or malversation just obviously.
04:03Isn't it a train-off?
04:04It's less jail time.
04:24That's why we're finding that in terms of quality and whatville.
04:34I haven't had enough time.
04:36It's less time for life.
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