- 2 months ago
A closer look at how the Sabah state election could reshape the state–federal dynamic, from autonomy demands to development priorities. Research Associate Ariff Adi Putera from IDS breaks down what shifting political signals mean for governance, economics, and Malaysia’s broader federation model.
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00:00Terima kasih kerana menikmati kami. Ini adalah The Economy. Saya host Ibrahim Sani.
00:11Di Sabah Elections, kami akan melihat hari nominasi dan dalam dua minggu, kami akan melihat hari poling yang mulakan.
00:19Ini adalah pertama dari seri pilihan yang akan dilakukan untuk Malaysia. Yang seterusnya adalah Melaka, Sarawak dan Johor.
00:29Dan yang besar adalah pilihan jenayah yang harus dilakukan pada Februari 2028.
00:35Jadi, semua ini sebenarnya berkaitan pada pilihan Sabah pertama.
00:40Jadi, ada banyak mata pada pilihan jenayah ini. Dan kita cuba memahami lebih baik bagaimana dinamik politik berkembang,
00:48bagaimana pilihan jenayah yang dibuat, dibuat, dibuat dan dibuat kepada rakyat.
00:53Tetapi lebih penting, dinamik politik yang ada di dalam pilihan Sabah.
00:59Jadi, di sini bersama kami adalah kawan-kawan saya, Arif Adiputra, penyelitian penyelitian di IDS,
01:04atau Institut for Development Studies Sabah.
01:07Adi, terima kasih banyak sekali. Kami selalu mempunyai idea ini untuk mendapatkan anda dalam show selama beberapa masa.
01:12And what a momentous time for us to have you right now, considering that there's a lot that is being discussed at the Sabah elections.
01:23But, having said that, this is what we were expecting anyway.
01:26There's nothing new in terms of the kind of chatter and drama.
01:31I mean, Ewan just resigned a few days ago, and Upco just took themselves out of PH.
01:38GRS has just made the announcement a few days ago.
01:42This followed very closely with BN and PH, and I think the first was BAP.
01:47And of course, you know, the big ones have been mentioned, but you know, we never know.
01:51Nomination Day is Nomination Day. We might see some surprises.
01:53How has the political drama shaped up, and is it part of what IDS thinks of how this election is going to be taking shape?
02:04I think it reflects a very broad sentiment when it comes to Sabah's election, which is that it's always been seen as dynamic.
02:10Things are always ever shifting, alliances always changes.
02:13At this point, it's the most dynamic it's ever been.
02:15You have almost as many parties as you have seats up for grabs, right?
02:18Okay, wait.
02:20Normally when people say an election is coming up, they will always say that line.
02:23this is the craziest that it has ever been, but is it truly the craziest?
02:26Yeah, it's been on an upper trend because now you have a lot of parties putting their hat within the election itself.
02:33You have more freedom for parties to actually enter politics because some branch off from previous more established parties,
02:39more conventional parties, and they decide, hey, we have an issue here that the leadership doesn't listen to.
02:44I can form a party.
02:44So it's very easy to form one.
02:46It's easy to go as an independent candidate.
02:48So for some people are saying now, than before, it's the most democratic election Sabah's ever seen because you have so much choice.
02:56Some even just standing on one particular issue, you have parties that just stand on the Zara issue itself, and that's the entire campaign slogan.
03:03Yeah.
03:04So you have parties for all kinds of labors, but of course you have the big ones that still, that's going to be considered anything serious for this upcoming election.
03:12Let's talk about the Sabah Black Wave, I suppose.
03:15Many viewers, especially in Son Anjoa or Peninsula, might not be familiar altogether.
03:20You can share that with our audience?
03:23I think it just comes from a general sentiment that established parties are not functioning according to some people that do support the Black Wave,
03:29and they thought that rather than actually having to go with a party or a coalition,
03:33and then there's a lot of internal negotiation going along, why not we just, you know, cast a stone and see where it lands, what's the result going to be.
03:41And I believe the Black Wave led by Nato Redon has already planned for 13 seats all along the west coast from his base of operations in Kudat.
03:50Except for Api Api, they are not so confident in urban seats, very urban seat there.
03:54But they're going to see just where it goes, where it lands, and he did say that independent Adun's have never been in the opposition.
04:04So we see where it goes, who gives the best offer.
04:07That's also going to be a general trend as we look at this election itself, the negotiating and the horse trading that goes behind the scenes.
04:14So, of course, IDS has been working quite closely with many of these individuals, such as the people that are currently putting their names in the hat,
04:25and of course, policy direction is one area of concern that I want to explore shortly in our discussion.
04:31But still on the political dynamics, right now there's no clear winner, so to speak, even after so close to the polling date,
04:39Does this worry the politicals out there right now, and are they trying to put their best feet forward, or more mudslinging is expected to be done?
04:48I think a bit of both. Everyone is doing the rhetoric in public, but also in private, they are also having their own internal negotiations with one another.
04:57If I have to give an analogy is like, let's say you have a WhatsApp group of five people, right?
05:01You don't like one person, you make a WhatsApp group of four people without the one guy you don't like.
05:04Then that guy makes a WhatsApp group with four people with one guy he doesn't like.
05:07So you have the entire combination of the five people in every permutation and configuration that you have.
05:13Everyone is talking to each other, minus someone they don't want to be listening, to be eavesdropping in.
05:18That is the current situation and dynamic we have right now.
05:20Everyone behind the scenes are talking to see what kind of potential pact can be made.
05:24Because at this point, it looks to be that no one is able to form a simple majority.
05:29So it's forced to make coalitions, forced to make alliances, some that has broken off.
05:34Maybe they'll reform back to make another coalition itself.
05:38And that is something that was going to be a defining characteristic of this election, if anything else.
05:45But that would also mean they can't go full-throated assault on their political opponents.
05:51Because you never know, in two weeks' time, while I go hardcore attacking that particular person or that particular party or that particular issue,
06:00In two weeks' time, I might have to leak my own wounds and come back and make an alliance with these kind of people that I just attacked.
06:08Does that bring about some form of decorum, at least?
06:13Not really, because it's normal for everyone to be mudslinging, then suddenly working back together.
06:18Back when the Warisan Plus coalition, which was Warisan, DAP, PKR, they were riding on the reform agenda.
06:25They were riding on the anti-corruption agenda.
06:27Next, you know, DAP suddenly working with GRS.
06:29PH is working with GRS itself, right?
06:31And then now you have these issues of scandals and all these alleged scandals and videos coming out.
06:37They're still keeping mum, keeping hush about it, right?
06:40So loyalty depends on really, it doesn't matter what you say, that's all in the past.
06:45Because everyone is quite, are to an extent friends with one another in Sabah.
06:50So comes a time, there was always some channel to approach one another and say,
06:53Hey, we worked together before, let's try see some, see we can work something out again.
06:58Yeah, let's also go to the most important stakeholder, the rakyat.
07:04We're looking at over 3 million voters for this particular election.
07:10What is the sentiment amongst the rakyat today?
07:13I think general confusion for rakyat in Sabah.
07:16Because with so many parties, we've never had this much choice or availability.
07:21So it throws a spander into the works.
07:24Now people are thinking, okay, this party talks about this, Sabah for Sabahans or Sabah Rites.
07:29But this party also talks about Sabah for Sabahans.
07:31It's just a different flavour, maybe different ethnic focus, right?
07:34Maybe different religious focus, right?
07:35So that makes voters confused.
07:38They don't know who to really vote for because it seems that everybody is saying the same thing.
07:43They are pushing for the same issues and they're pushing for the same agenda.
07:46It's just that maybe the ethnic composition of the parties are different.
07:49So that could have a bearing on decision.
07:52But most of the time, we have a lot of people in Sabah, voters, especially more older voters who are a bit more experienced in this.
08:00They don't know who to vote for anymore.
08:01The conventional choices are almost long gone.
08:04It's not the same days of UMNO, which is very monolithic, which was quite the obvious choice for many people.
08:10Now you're split.
08:11You have so much choice that you don't really know where to go.
08:14So, does that apply to the first-time voters as well, where the general confusion is actually prevalent?
08:21Yeah, definitely.
08:22Especially with young voters.
08:23Because for some, this is going to be the first ever election.
08:27Yeah.
08:27And they're overwhelmed with what each party brings to the table.
08:32Because what we've gathered from a lot of the youth is that they all seem the same, but there's so many of them.
08:38So what happens when you do with a lot of the same, right?
08:41Do you just throw a rock and then see where it lands?
08:44Or are there more methodical considerations to be made?
08:49Definitely in the urban areas, it's a bit more obvious, which they're more aware of good governance.
08:53These ideas of good governance and reform, where they want to see Sabah governance taken to a much more mature level.
08:59They would look to a party that's able to showcase those kinds of qualities and elements and what they can promise.
09:04But if you look in the rural area, it's also, it's completely different.
09:09Not sure what to do, not sure what to make of these choices.
09:12At the end of the day, it's what can these parties really offer that's tangible and on the ground, that directly resonates with them in a direct way.
09:20And so because of this, do you believe that voter turnout is going to be an issue?
09:24We might not see a great number of voter turnout for this election.
09:27I've heard with issues with voter turnout is going to...
09:30Especially transport cost is overwhelming right now.
09:33Yeah, definitely.
09:34I mean...
09:34But that's always been the case for somebody.
09:36Yeah.
09:36But more so now.
09:37I mean, historically, voter turnout with Sabah has always been about 55% to 60% there.
09:43Just about more than half.
09:45But this time around, we see a lot of talk saying that a lot of people not going out to vote this time.
09:50A lot of experienced people who have gone through many elections, they might not be going out to vote.
09:54Now, will this be offset by younger people who a lot of campaigns have been done for them to go out to vote?
10:01It's another story.
10:02Because now, youth makes up at least 55% of the Sabahan electorate.
10:06What? Really?
10:06Yeah.
10:07So it's very youth-driven this time.
10:09Whether or not they will come out to vote is another story entirely.
10:12Because historically, they have never been very active in coming out to vote.
10:16I believe in the last election, it turned out was about 17%.
10:19Very, very low among youth.
10:21So there's a lack of engagement with youth, which a lot of society...
10:23But also total youth, 100%, only 17% came out.
10:26This is the last election.
10:27Yeah.
10:27Sad to say.
10:28I mean, it's very disconcerting because there hasn't been much attempt to engage with the youth
10:32when it comes to political messaging or even outreach.
10:36And let's now move and pivot towards policy, which is your mainstay and your, I guess,
10:45bread and butter issue right now.
10:47I want to ask you about some of the policies that is currently being talked about.
10:52You touched very briefly just now about Sabahans.
10:56That's one.
10:57Another issue is on revenue and royalties.
11:00where the Kota Kinabalu High Court has just made a verdict that the federal government must give 40% of revenue
11:10of which they have not yet honored.
11:14Another angle is on race relations.
11:16and for many of the Malaysians right now, especially those in Semenanjung,
11:21they might not be even aware of the racial dynamics and the religious overtones
11:26that is befalling such a beautiful state like Sabah from the KDMR
11:31to the Malay, what do you call this, coastal areas and so on.
11:37And then, of course, the fourth area is on some key issues on infrastructure
11:42as well as debt and how to grow investments and tourism.
11:47So, as you can see, there's a lot of issues that is currently being, needs to be talked about.
11:52Let's start with the big one, which is federalism, Sabah for Sabahans.
11:56Where does the issue lie today and how are the political parties approaching this issue per se?
12:04I believe the whole Sabah for Sabahan scenario, which I believe party star with Datuk Perjifri Kitingan
12:10who exited GRS is heavily promoting, has carries its undertone that Sabah for Sabahans,
12:17which means that whatever has been perceived to be taken from Sabah must be returned
12:21and must be honored under the auspices of the Malaysian Agreement of 1963,
12:24which carries weight within the federal constitution.
12:28So, these are things that are rights that are enshrined.
12:31You know, almost in a sacred fashion, we have an oathstone in Keninga
12:34that kind of captures that spirit of agreement of the formation.
12:39An oathstone.
12:40An oathstone.
12:41Sumpah, batu bersumpah.
12:43Yes.
12:44So, this is a symbolic manifestation of the agreement that was made.
12:48It's in the constitution.
12:50So, Sabah for Sabahans is to uphold the sanctity of the constitution
12:53that guarantees Sabah particular rights.
12:56Rights which a lot of Sabahans, leaders and the people feel have been taken away from them over time.
13:02With, there's a merit to this perception as well.
13:05There's many times, the High Court ruling has proven that the federal government has erred
13:09in not paying Sabah the 40% that it is owed.
13:12in the wording as two-fifths revenue.
13:15Now, the issue is...
13:16Oh, that's the 40%?
13:18Yes, that's the two-fifths.
13:19Calculator is 40%.
13:20Now, the issue is that with what the Prime Minister himself has said that apparently this...
13:25Just two days ago, actually.
13:26Just two days ago, at Gaya Street.
13:28saying that $10 billion has been taken out from Sabah
13:31and $17 billion has been given back.
13:35He is in reference to what he said last year at KDCA during the Kamantan Festival
13:40said that $16 billion has been given to Sabah and that is more than 40%.
13:44Now, the issue with this, and this is what law leaders are going to use as support Sabahans,
13:48is that how is the 40% calculated?
13:51This $10 billion, $17 billion, $16 billion, where is it derived from?
13:54Because there's a lot of muddy grey areas here that we have to talk about
13:58is that revenue, what counts as revenue?
14:01In the wording on the Constitution, it says net revenue.
14:03But we know tax revenue is a federal jurisdiction.
14:07It's a federal function.
14:08So what does it mean by revenue exactly?
14:11Revenue sources that need to be properly clarified.
14:14And until then, people are going to rile up the Sabah for Sabah and sentiment,
14:17saying that, see, this is more masking,
14:20more obfuscating the promises that are supposed to be given,
14:24and it's going to delay the entire processes for restoring Sabah's rights
14:29back to Sabah, taken from the Farah Government.
14:32So that's the Sabah-Sabah angle that's been taken now.
14:35It's a sense of being aggrieved.
14:38And then that brews into a sense of antagonism.
14:41With a lot of Sabahans now saying that, you see,
14:43the Farah Government is taking advantage of us,
14:45which is the perception that the Farah Government shouldn't be developing
14:48because we agreed to form Malaysia together.
14:50So do you think that this falls nicely into my second argument on policy,
14:56which is greater autonomy on Sabah determining their own fate?
15:02and your policy paper that I read that was published under IDS,
15:08that was a very intriguing piece of work, in my opinion,
15:11because you argued that it starts with even the name of the Chief Executive
15:18of the Government of Sabah,
15:20where you make parallels of Sarawak being Premier
15:23instead of Chief Minister of Sabah,
15:26because that would equate Sabah to say for instance states like Melaka and Penang
15:31who has the same notion of Chief Minister
15:33but the Sabah Chief Minister is inherently a little bit more
15:37than what a Chief Minister of Melaka and Penang has.
15:40You also argue that even the name of the state is also needs to be debated
15:46because it is enshrined under Schedule 1 of the Federal Constitution
15:51that talks about Sabah and Sarawak
15:53and at that point in time Singapore being a wilayah.
15:57So, you know, forget about the details of the policies,
16:00even the name and the identity, so to speak,
16:03needs to be reclarified.
16:05And you argued that it is well within Sabah jurisdiction
16:09to determine for themselves their own nomenclature.
16:13So do you feel that that should be the starting point for everything else
16:17when it comes to determining more autonomy for Sabah
16:19in pursuit of us having a stronger federalism?
16:22Because language matters very much.
16:25If we say, use the same terms and words in nomenclature
16:28that's associated with something else,
16:31we start to see that there's more similarities
16:33than there are actually differences.
16:34Artikel 1, 2 specifically says,
16:37and we fought to amend this in the Constitution.
16:38and that comes under, if you look back at history,
16:49how Malaysia was formed.
16:51It wasn't all the states, plus 1, plus 1, plus 1.
16:53It was 1, plus 1, plus 1.
16:55Singapore can keep, not consider anymore.
16:57which is, well, it was an amalgamation
16:59of 4 countries, and then 1 exited.
17:03If you go to Singapore and they say they were ejected,
17:06they have their own videos on it.
17:08Their own version of how things happen, but you know, let's...
17:10But whatever it is, Singapore is happy,
17:11being where they are, they're very happy with it.
17:14More power to them.
17:15But in the end of the day, it's the Malayan Federation,
17:17Sarawak, and Sabah.
17:19So, the Malayan Federation is all these states
17:21that we have in Penancong.
17:22So, we need to be very, very specific
17:25in making sure that this spirit of the agreement
17:28is reflected in identity,
17:30reflected in the language that we use.
17:32I made the argument saying that
17:33we're using a title that is similar to Melaka,
17:36similar to Penang,
17:37states within Malaya itself,
17:39that was under the Malayan Federation.
17:40So, does that give the connotation
17:42that we are the same as Melaka and Penang?
17:45For some people that I've talked to
17:46who have always talked about Sabah identity,
17:49yeah, it kind of makes it sound the same.
17:50It flattens out the identity part.
17:52When Sabah and Sarawak are very, very distinct,
17:55not just culturally speaking,
17:56but geographically as well.
17:58You can look at other examples of federations
18:00like in Russia, Tartistan,
18:02they even have,
18:04they used to have,
18:06they had a state there as called the president.
18:08So, why not we also start to look at what Sarawak's doing.
18:12They're calling themselves a premier
18:13because they are different
18:14and they have a different set of histories
18:16compared to Malaya here.
18:18And this doesn't require any move from the parliament side
18:22because this only needs to be amended
18:23at the state constitution,
18:25which requires two-thirds majority,
18:27same as what Sarawak did.
18:28So, these words and how we play with these words
18:30really sets apart Sabah and Sarawak
18:32vis-a-vis to Sunanjung.
18:35and that sets the tone,
18:36it refreshes the narrative
18:37and so when negotiators come back and forth,
18:40they say that,
18:41okay, we have to engage with the premier,
18:44not a chief minister.
18:45It carries off a different kind of
18:47set of circumstances,
18:50set of thinking,
18:50the mode of thinking
18:51sort of slowly shifts.
18:53Even the deputies of the chief executive
18:59of the state,
19:00they are not considered state ex-coast
19:02the way we would in Sunanjung.
19:05They are considered ministers.
19:07Outright ministers.
19:08Minister of Sabah for economy,
19:10Minister of Sabah for tourism and so on.
19:12Just like how we see in Sarawak.
19:14So, even then,
19:15it's also a big distinction
19:17in terms of the deputies
19:19or the subsidiaries
19:21of the chief executive per se.
19:23Now, you say that
19:24you need just a two-third majority
19:25at the Sabah Parliament.
19:27but why is it not done
19:29if it's just that?
19:31Wouldn't Sabah,
19:33despite their political differences,
19:35rally behind this notion
19:36because after all,
19:39it's for the benefit of Sabah?
19:41Why hasn't it been done?
19:42Where is the political will
19:44and why is it missing?
19:45Largely because it's not really part
19:46of mainstream conversation.
19:48We looked to how Sarawak
19:49changed to premier
19:50but it did not exactly resonate
19:53in the sense that
19:54to the political leaders in Sabah
19:56saying,
19:56why not we start to think
19:57along those lines as well
19:58when there were whispers
20:00from the ground
20:01and from some experts
20:01saying that
20:02maybe we should start thinking
20:03along those lines as well
20:04because when we see
20:07how Sabah was formed
20:08even prior to that
20:09during the North Borneo days
20:10in the British Crown Colony,
20:13Sabah compared to Sunanjung
20:14was never a sovereign kingdom.
20:17It was never held by a monarch
20:18and in fact,
20:20I don't know the Sulu family
20:21descendants might argue there.
20:22They claim parts apparently
20:24but we don't know
20:26who they are now.
20:27But you see that
20:28history really does dictate
20:31how we perceive ourselves
20:32as a state itself,
20:34as a nation state.
20:35So we have to also look back
20:37towards that.
20:39We had a conversation
20:41I had with an expert of mine,
20:44the one who wanted to name
20:45but he said
20:45we could have been a republic.
20:47We might as well just be called republic.
20:48We never had a king,
20:49we never had a sultan,
20:50we never had a sovereign,
20:51a sovereign monarch.
20:52So that can also set up
20:53ourselves different.
20:54So it's in the line
20:55with what
20:56past Prime Minister
20:57Muhyiddin Yassin said
20:58claiming that Sabah and Sarawak
21:00should be renamed to wilayah.
21:02I think a lot of people
21:03got the wrong perception.
21:04They thought wilayah,
21:04they straightaway thought
21:05wilayah, persekutuan,
21:06federal territory
21:06but wilayah itself
21:07designates a region
21:09very different from a negeri.
21:11Is it still out
21:14of the mainstream conversation?
21:16It still is.
21:17And not many people
21:18has a lobby
21:19to push for these changes.
21:20Maybe because they feel
21:21that it doesn't bring
21:22tangible changes
21:23but for me I believe
21:24symbolic changes
21:25is just as important
21:27because it gives
21:28a clear idea
21:29of what kind of direction
21:30that we want to take
21:32that we can aspire to.
21:33Sometimes when we want
21:34to have more tangible goals
21:37we need to sometimes
21:38aspire to loftier ones as well.
21:39you know
21:41when we talk about
21:42composition in language
21:44you know
21:45you've got the
21:45four W's and one H.
21:48The why is very much
21:50important in terms of
21:51how you describe a thing
21:53and why you want to do it
21:55but more importantly
21:56the why is derived
21:58from the who
21:58because
21:59the reason why
22:02you're doing it
22:03falls back to
22:04who you are
22:05as an identity
22:06as a person.
22:07so Sabah right now
22:09I would argue
22:10based on this kind of
22:11proposition
22:13that you're putting
22:14forth today
22:14is in a
22:16deeper
22:17deeper
22:18situational issue
22:19because this is
22:20an identity
22:21crisis.
22:23Forget about
22:23economic crisis.
22:24Everybody goes through
22:24that and needs to
22:26resolve
22:26but how
22:28Sabah identifies
22:29yourself
22:29is actually quite crucial.
22:31More importantly
22:31how we identify
22:32Sabah is also
22:33quite important.
22:34okay that's one.
22:36Another area
22:36of concern
22:37is on
22:38some
22:39revenue making
22:41policies
22:43sorry
22:44some policies
22:45that involve
22:46revenue making
22:47is all within
22:48Sabah powers
22:49as well
22:50such as
22:51tourism
22:51and a few others.
22:53Do you feel
22:54that
22:54that also
22:55is not being
22:56discussed
22:57in terms of
22:57how you can
22:58actually create
22:59autonomy
23:00without getting
23:01clearance from
23:02anybody
23:02from Putrajaya
23:03from your partners
23:04in the federation
23:05from the parliament
23:06and so on
23:07you could have
23:08just executed
23:08this on your own
23:09but it's not done
23:10such as the
23:11tourism and
23:12communications for
23:13instance.
23:14Why do you see
23:15these things as
23:16a non-starter yet
23:17for Sabah
23:18for today?
23:20Because
23:20a lot of
23:21the functions
23:21still fall
23:21under the federalist.
23:23Tourism is still
23:24a federal function
23:24to amend that
23:26you need to
23:27negotiate and lobby
23:28at the
23:28national parliament
23:29which requires
23:30two-thirds
23:30very difficult
23:31to push forward
23:32for something
23:32like that
23:33so that's why
23:33Sarawak is now
23:34pushing for
23:35tourism to be
23:35under the
23:36concurrent list
23:37so they're
23:39still working
23:40on that
23:40however we
23:41still
23:42I believe
23:43Sabah is still
23:43not catching
23:44on to the
23:45bandwagon to
23:47articulate it
23:48in the parliament
23:49as well
23:49which is quite
23:50a shame
23:51because
23:51Sabahan tourism
23:53cannot be defined
23:54easily along
23:55the same lines
23:56as the national
23:57policy
23:57because
23:58Sabah tourism
23:59for one
24:00is that
24:01it has
24:02caters to
24:02tourists directly
24:03from China
24:05you have flights
24:05directly from China
24:06you have flights
24:06directly from Korea
24:07and these tourists
24:08have a specific
24:09image
24:10and expectation
24:11of what kind
24:12of holidays
24:13that they want
24:13to have in Sabah
24:14which is
24:14they want to
24:15experience the
24:16nature
24:17they want to
24:17experience the sea
24:18they want to
24:18experience the mountain
24:19they want to
24:19experience the jungle
24:19however
24:20now the issue
24:21that we have
24:21in Sabah
24:22which is very much
24:22rampant
24:23is the idea
24:24of regulation
24:24we have a Sabah tourism board
24:26that manages tourism
24:28mostly in Sabah
24:28and the ministry
24:29but these mostly
24:30focus on
24:31marketing and promotion
24:32we don't have much
24:34in terms of regulation
24:35and when it comes
24:36to monitoring
24:37so with that said
24:38when we move tourism
24:40hopefully
24:40Sarawak will be successful
24:42move to the concurrent list
24:43policy wise
24:44Sabah should also
24:45look to actively
24:46creating a Sabah
24:47tourism authority
24:48as well
24:48an authority
24:49that is able to monitor
24:50let's say
24:51tour providers
24:52all these
24:53license operators
24:54to really review
24:55exactly
24:56are these
24:57in compliance
24:58with a policy
24:59that is beneficial
25:00for the growth
25:01of Sabah's
25:02more tourism sector
25:03this is able
25:04to look forward
25:04ahead
25:05to be able to
25:05plan ahead
25:06even more
25:06and to properly
25:07define our tourism
25:09outlooks
25:10our tourism policies
25:10what kind of tourism
25:11that we want to
25:12cultivate over here
25:13in Sabah
25:14instead of having
25:15to wait for a decision
25:16at the national level
25:17in the national ministry
25:19it can straight away
25:20be addressed
25:20because it comes
25:22to the idea
25:22of local problems
25:23require local knowledge
25:25sometimes a policymaker
25:26in Pujujaya
25:27in the tourism field
25:29may see tourism
25:30from the lens
25:31of let's say
25:32Kuala Lumpur
25:33or Langkawi
25:34but Sabah is
25:35completely different
25:36from Malia Basin
25:39to Karambunai
25:39to Sipadan
25:41the west coast
25:42east coast
25:43completely different
25:44completely different
25:45completely different
25:46the inland of
25:48Sabah
25:49it's completely different
25:51I was driving
25:52from Keningau
25:53to Ranau
25:53of which I saw
25:54more than 10 billboards
25:55of Jeffrey Kitingan
25:56on Sabah
25:56Sabah
25:57Sabah
25:57Sabah
25:58he's crazy
25:58I've never seen
25:59anything like that
25:59before
26:00it's going to
26:02different worlds
26:04I don't know
26:05how to say it
26:06from the
26:09Kroker Range
26:10driving from
26:10KK to
26:11Keningau
26:12from taking
26:13the inside road
26:14to Ranau
26:15and then driving
26:16down south
26:17again
26:17to
26:18Tawau
26:22Sandakan
26:23Kuna
26:24Lahat Datu
26:25it's just
26:27a world
26:28apart
26:29and of course
26:30I'm an avid diver
26:31so when I go to
26:32places like
26:33Sipadan
26:34it's like
26:37you know
26:38why am I paying
26:39a lot of money
26:40to go somewhere else
26:40when the treasure
26:41is right here
26:42in Malaysia
26:42you know what I mean
26:43but because of this
26:45notion
26:46this whole
26:47idea of
26:48upgrading
26:49Sabah Turism
26:49to become
26:50some sort of
26:51Sabah Turism
26:51authority
26:52again
26:55where's the
26:55political will
26:56seems to be
26:57missing
26:58even though
26:59there's a lot
26:59of upside
27:00when we talk
27:01about STA
27:02versus STB
27:03for instance
27:03now this comes
27:04down to
27:05how we understand
27:06federalism
27:07in Sabah
27:08we understand
27:09federalism
27:09under the framework
27:10of MA63
27:11everything
27:12defaults back
27:13to the
27:13Malaysian
27:13Agreement
27:131963
27:14and what
27:1518 point
27:16plan
27:17the 20 point
27:17the 20 point
27:18agreement
27:18the intergovernmental
27:19committee report
27:20so this is
27:22when Sabahans
27:22think of
27:23federalism
27:23they think
27:23along this
27:24framework
27:25compared to
27:26Sarawak
27:26they start
27:27to look
27:27beyond that
27:28framework
27:28they start
27:29to look
27:29at the idea
27:29federalism
27:30in terms
27:30of
27:31the arrangement
27:31of power
27:32between
27:32a central
27:33government
27:33and a regional
27:34government
27:34a regional
27:35government
27:36may have
27:36different
27:36wants
27:37and needs
27:37compared
27:38to
27:38what
27:39the
27:39national
27:39government
27:39actually
27:40sees
27:40so
27:41Sarawak
27:41has
27:41perfectly
27:42captured
27:43the idea
27:43of
27:43what
27:43does it
27:44mean
27:44to be
27:44a part
27:45of
27:46a federation
27:46which
27:47is
27:47asymmetrical
27:48not
27:49every
27:49state
27:50is
27:50the
27:50same
27:50we
27:50can
27:50look
27:51at
27:51the
27:51examples
27:51in
27:52United
27:52States
27:53where
27:53almost
27:53every
27:54state
27:54across
27:55are
27:56very
27:56much
27:56protective
27:57over
27:57state
27:58rights
27:58and
27:58they
27:58don't
27:59want
27:59too
27:59much
27:59national
28:00oversight
28:00we
28:01can
28:01see
28:01it
28:01in
28:02the
28:02United
28:02Kingdom
28:02Scotland
28:03itself
28:03has
28:04passed
28:05the
28:05Scotland
28:05Act
28:05in
28:052012
28:06rebranded
28:07their
28:07executive
28:08committee
28:09to be
28:09the
28:10Scottish
28:10Parliament
28:10why
28:12don't
28:12we
28:13think
28:13along
28:13these
28:13lines
28:13of
28:13experimenting
28:14what
28:15it
28:15means
28:15to
28:16be
28:16Sabahan
28:17vis-a-vis
28:18here
28:18and
28:18call
28:19yourself
28:19first
28:19minister
28:20or
28:20something
28:20like
28:21that
28:21right
28:21we
28:21have
28:22room
28:22and ample
28:23room
28:24to
28:24experiment
28:25with
28:25how
28:25we
28:26want
28:26to
28:26define
28:26our
28:27place
28:27in
28:27the
28:28federation
28:28and
28:28for
28:29some
28:29leaders
28:29in
28:29Sabah
28:30they
28:30have
28:30not
28:30gotten
28:30to
28:31that
28:31point
28:31of
28:31developing
28:31that
28:32thought
28:32of
28:32federalism
28:33but
28:34I
28:34believe
28:35that
28:35once
28:36a
28:36time
28:36if
28:37maybe
28:3863
28:38does
28:38get
28:38fulfilled
28:43because
28:44this
28:44is
28:45the
28:45issue
28:45now
28:45who
28:46would
28:46have
28:46thought
28:46tourism
28:47would
28:47have
28:47been
28:47Sabah's
28:48one
28:48of
28:48Sabah's
28:49biggest
28:49industries
28:50that
28:50wasn't
28:50discussed
28:51in
28:51the
28:5160s
28:51by
28:52the
28:52leaders
28:53right
28:53you
28:55see
28:55that
28:55grew
28:55that
28:56so
28:56that
28:56means
28:56that
28:56if
28:57we
28:57follow
28:57strictly
28:58just
28:59by
28:59the
28:59framework
29:00of
29:00MA63
29:00we're
29:01not
29:02going
29:02to
29:02set
29:02ourselves
29:02up
29:03to
29:03address
29:03future
29:04concerns
29:04which
29:05autonomy
29:06might
29:06necessitate
29:07one
29:09last
29:10area
29:10that
29:11I
29:11want
29:11to
29:13what
29:14are
29:14you
29:14looking
29:15at
29:15personally
29:16Adi
29:16I
29:17mean
29:17for
29:18people
29:18who
29:18might
29:18not
29:19be
29:19familiar
29:19he
29:20runs
29:20an excellent
29:20podcast
29:21called
29:21the
29:22podcast
29:22Kopitiam
29:23Kopitiam
29:23Council
29:23and
29:26you
29:27know
29:27you
29:28talk
29:28a bunch
29:29of
29:29issues
29:29there
29:30and
29:30of
29:31course
29:31more
29:33importantly
29:34the
29:34research
29:34that
29:35you're
29:35doing
29:35also
29:35involves
29:36not
29:36just
29:36about
29:36Sabah
29:37and
29:37federalism
29:37and
29:38the
29:38state
29:38and
29:38so
29:38on
29:39but
29:39a few
29:40other
29:40things
29:41but
29:41what
29:41are you
29:41looking
29:42at
29:42in
29:432026
29:44and
29:44how
29:45does
29:45this
29:46election
29:46affect
29:46you
29:46personally
29:47I
29:48think
29:48the
29:48election
29:48has
29:48given
29:49us
29:49a lot
29:49to
29:49talk
29:49about
29:49really
29:50with
29:50the
29:50podcast
29:51has
29:51been
29:51active
29:52my
29:53partner
29:53Hafizzo
29:53he's
29:54been
29:54coming
29:54back
29:55to
29:55Sabah
29:55quite
29:56a lot
29:56and
29:56we
29:56find
29:57ourselves
29:57interviewing
29:57a lot
29:58of
29:59political
29:59people
30:00in
30:00Sabah
30:01not
30:01just
30:01that
30:01but
30:01political
30:02experts
30:02as well
30:03people
30:03who
30:03are
30:03also
30:04involved
30:04in
30:04politics
30:04to
30:05see
30:05okay
30:05to
30:06give
30:06us
30:06a better
30:07idea
30:07and
30:07clearer
30:07picture
30:08on
30:08what's
30:08going
30:09on
30:09in
30:09Sabah
30:10sometimes
30:10you
30:10get
30:10different
30:10perspective
30:11on
30:13certain
30:13areas
30:13like
30:14we
30:14were
30:15talking
30:15to
30:15Dr.
30:16Bridget
30:16Welsh
30:16as well
30:16who
30:17very
30:18well
30:19defined
30:19the
30:19northeast
30:20region
30:20of
30:20Sabah
30:20as
30:20having
30:21a bit
30:21of
30:21nostalgia
30:22factor
30:22for
30:23the
30:23days
30:23of
30:24UMNO
30:24that's
30:25present
30:25there
30:25and
30:25I
30:26don't
30:26know
30:26if
30:26that's
30:26a sentiment
30:26that
30:27will
30:27manifest
30:27as
30:27support
30:29for
30:29GRS
30:29or UMNO
30:30but regardless
30:30there's
30:32something
30:32to look
30:32forward
30:32to
30:32Sabah
30:33itself
30:33is always
30:34an evolving
30:34landscape
30:35and
30:36it's
30:37for sure
30:37that
30:3729th
30:39November
30:39even
30:41by the
30:42last votes
30:42being cast
30:43you start
30:43to have
30:43to see
30:44which hotels
30:45have what
30:45cars
30:46what Ninja
30:46Kings
30:46or Hilux
30:47are going
30:48to be
30:48which
30:48where's
30:49the press
30:49going to
30:49be
30:50right
30:50that can
30:50give you
30:51an idea
30:51of who's
30:52talking
30:52to who
30:52exactly
30:53and
30:54who knows
30:54how many
30:54days
30:55that's
30:55going to
30:55take
30:55when it
30:55comes to
30:56deciding
30:56a
30:57state
30:58Sabah
30:58state
30:58government
30:59moving
31:00forward
31:00I would
31:01like to
31:02see
31:02that
31:02leaders
31:03because
31:03no one's
31:04going to
31:04form a
31:05simple
31:05majority
31:05everyone's
31:06going to
31:06force
31:06to work
31:07together
31:07it's
31:07going to
31:07be
31:08government
31:09of
31:09coalitions
31:09to see
31:10how
31:10they're
31:10able
31:11to
31:11negotiate
31:11with
31:11one
31:12another
31:12what
31:13kind
31:13of
31:13things
31:13that
31:13they
31:14can
31:14come
31:14to
31:14an
31:14agreement
31:14with
31:15policy
31:15wise
31:15and
31:16what
31:17kind
31:17of
31:17approach
31:17that
31:17they
31:18want
31:18to
31:18take
31:18with
31:19their
31:20relationship
31:20with
31:21the
31:21federal
31:21government
31:21with
31:22the
31:23High Court
31:23ruling
31:24when
31:29government
31:30approach
31:30to
31:31those
31:31results
31:32going to
31:32be
31:32if
31:33let's
31:33say
31:34the
31:34federal
31:34government
31:34does
31:34not
31:34appeal
31:35which
31:35I
31:35hope
31:35they
31:35do
31:36not
31:36appeal
31:36just
31:36leave
31:37it
31:37at
31:37that
31:37finally
31:38start
31:38looking at
31:39the
31:3940%
31:39what
31:40are
31:40the
31:40negotiations
31:40that
31:40going
31:40to
31:41take
31:41place
31:41in
31:41creating
31:42a
31:42mechanism
31:43so
31:43that
31:4440%
31:44is
31:45going
31:45to
31:45be
31:45delivered
31:46back
31:46to
31:47Sabah
31:47because
31:48that
31:48is
31:48an
31:48issue
31:48that
31:49hasn't
31:49been
31:49brought
31:49up
31:50when
31:50it
31:50comes
31:50to
31:51mechanism
31:51is
31:53that
31:53what
31:55about
31:55to
31:56put
31:56possibility
31:57of
31:57being
31:58appealed
31:58the
31:59AGC
31:59is
31:59already
31:59talking
32:00to
32:00the
32:02executive
32:02I
32:02think
32:03with
32:03the
32:03situation
32:04with
32:05APCO
32:05exit
32:05Dr. Ewan
32:07said
32:07that
32:08he
32:08will
32:08resign
32:09as
32:09a
32:09minister
32:10and
32:10he
32:11has
32:12before
32:12a
32:12decision
32:13was
32:13even
32:13being
32:13made
32:14does
32:14that
32:14give
32:14a
32:14sign
32:15that
32:15he
32:15is
32:15privy
32:16to
32:16information
32:16on
32:17an
32:17appeal
32:17which
32:18all
32:19signals
32:19that
32:20they're
32:20going
32:20to
32:20the
32:21prime
32:21minister
32:21himself
32:22said
32:22that
32:22I
32:22would
32:23rather
32:23not
32:23appeal
32:23but
32:24at
32:24the
32:24end
32:24of
32:24day
32:25prime
32:25minister
32:25does
32:26have
32:26a
32:26lot
32:26of
32:27say
32:27in
32:27how
32:27it
32:27works
32:28out
32:28because
32:28we
32:28know
32:28that
32:29the
32:29judiciary
32:29is
32:30appointed
32:30at
32:31a
32:31very
32:32high
32:32level
32:32by
32:32the
32:32executive
32:33the
32:33judiciary
32:33is
32:34still
32:34not
32:34independent
32:35in
32:35a
32:35way
32:35that
32:36it
32:36can
32:36make
32:36that
32:36decision
32:37by
32:37itself
32:37of
32:37which
32:38this
32:39government
32:39aims
32:40to
32:40reform
32:40but
32:41that's
32:42a
32:42different
32:42topic
32:42all
32:42together
32:43but
32:43having
32:45said
32:45that
32:45again
32:46how do
32:47you
32:47see
32:48this
32:48election
32:49is
32:49this
32:50the
32:51watershed
32:51moment
32:52of
32:52sabah
32:53politics
32:53changing
32:54for a
32:55more
32:55matured
32:56landscape
32:56or do
32:56you
32:56think
32:57this
32:58is
32:58just
32:58going
32:58to
32:58create
32:59a
32:59little
32:59bit
32:59more
32:59noise
33:00than
33:00previous
33:01elections
33:01I
33:02think
33:02it's
33:02going
33:02to
33:02be
33:02even
33:03more
33:03decisive
33:03than
33:04before
33:04everyone
33:04is
33:04going
33:04to
33:04be
33:05fighting
33:05for
33:05their
33:05own
33:05space
33:06everyone
33:06is
33:06trying
33:06to
33:06fight
33:06for
33:06their
33:07own
33:07representation
33:07and
33:08if
33:09the
33:09government
33:09of
33:10the
33:10day
33:10that
33:10comes
33:10in
33:11is
33:11not
33:11able
33:12to
33:12handle
33:12those
33:13aspirations
33:13and
33:13interests
33:14of
33:14all
33:14the
33:14competing
33:14coalition
33:15partners
33:15that
33:15they're
33:16going
33:16to
33:16have
33:16then
33:17we're
33:17going
33:17to see
33:17a
33:18lot
33:18more
33:18splits
33:18a
33:18lot
33:19more
33:19exits
33:19more
33:20walkouts
33:20we've
33:20seen
33:21during
33:21the
33:22middle
33:22of
33:22Hajiji's
33:23tenure
33:23where
33:25UMNO
33:26left
33:28the
33:29government
33:29to try
33:30challenge
33:30their
33:31position
33:31for
33:31Chief
33:31Minister
33:31will
33:32we see
33:32more
33:32of
33:32that
33:33happening
33:33if
33:34whoever
33:34comes
33:34in
33:35is
33:35not
33:35able
33:36to
33:36manage
33:36their
33:36expectations
33:37that
33:37is
33:38something
33:38that
33:38we
33:38have
33:38to
33:39look
33:39to
33:39in
33:40the
33:40next
33:404-5
33:41years
33:42this
33:42is
33:43what
33:43at
33:43least
33:43the
33:44Chief
33:45Minister
33:46Dr.
33:46Sia
33:46Hajiji
33:47has
33:47been
33:47able
33:47to
33:47do
33:48to
33:48manage
33:49everyone's
33:50expectations
33:50being
33:51able
33:51to
33:51manage
33:51the
33:51coalition
33:52quite
33:53relatively
33:53well
33:54but
33:54at
33:54the
33:54same
33:54time
33:54balancing
33:55his
33:55relationship
33:55with
33:56the
33:56federal
33:56government
33:57so
33:58we'll
33:58see
33:58how
33:58does
33:58that
33:59kind
33:59of
33:59attitude
33:59will
33:59completely
34:00change
34:00as
34:01an
34:01attitude
34:01or
34:02will
34:02we
34:02see
34:02more
34:03the
34:03similar
34:03kind
34:04of
34:04negotiating
34:05very
34:05cordial
34:06attitude
34:07in
34:07the
34:07future
34:07Do you
34:08think
34:08that
34:08the
34:09Putrajaya
34:09element
34:10is
34:10going
34:11to
34:11play
34:12strong
34:12to
34:13some
34:13of
34:13partners
34:13Sabah
34:14do you
34:16feel
34:16that
34:16Anwar's
34:17impact
34:19and influence
34:20and
34:20the
34:21national
34:21parties
34:22like
34:22PKR
34:23and
34:23DAP
34:23making
34:24some
34:25form
34:25of
34:25inroads
34:26there
34:26given
34:28the
34:28situation
34:29with
34:29what
34:30happened
34:30at
34:31Kotkin
34:31Balogaya
34:32Street
34:32the other
34:32day
34:33with
34:33the
34:33Prime
34:35Minister
34:35talking
34:36to
34:36somebody
34:36on
34:36the
34:3640%
34:37I
34:38think
34:38that
34:38has
34:38done
34:39quite
34:39a bit
34:39of
34:39damage
34:40to
34:40PKR's
34:40reputation
34:41in
34:42Sabah
34:42already
34:43the
34:43Sabah
34:43for
34:43Sabahan
34:44sentiment
34:44is
34:44very
34:44strong
34:45the
34:45need
34:46the
34:46want
34:46for
34:46local
34:47parties
34:47is
34:47very
34:48much
34:49there
34:49and
34:50there's
34:50always
34:50been
34:50a
34:50rejection
34:51of
34:51Malaya
34:52based
34:52national
34:52parties
34:53so
34:54to
34:54double
34:55down
34:55on
34:55this
34:56kind
34:56of
34:57I
34:57would
34:57say
34:57to
34:58some
34:58people
34:58seeing
34:58as
34:59patronizing
34:59tone
35:00that
35:00the
35:00Prime
35:00Minister
35:00has
35:01demonstrated
35:02would
35:02just
35:02push
35:03PKR
35:04in
35:04a
35:04more
35:04dangerous
35:05situation
35:05and
35:06by
35:06extension
35:06does
35:07jeopardize
35:07their
35:07partners
35:08such
35:08as
35:08DAP
35:09and
35:10by
35:10extension
35:10GRS
35:11who
35:11has
35:12decided
35:12to
35:12work
35:12together
35:13with
35:14Pakatan
35:14Harapan
35:15so
35:15this
35:16could
35:16also
35:16affect
35:16the
35:16perception
35:17of
35:17the
35:17people
35:17saying
35:18that
35:18GRS
35:19is
35:19in
35:20kahoots
35:20working
35:21together
35:21with
35:21PH
35:22who
35:22already
35:23says
35:23these
35:23things
35:23to
35:24challenge
35:25that
35:25kind
35:25of
35:26sentiment
35:26that
35:26kind
35:27of
35:27rhetoric
35:27APKOR
35:28has
35:28already
35:28shown
35:28that
35:29they're
35:29not
35:29sticking
35:31and
35:31sitting
35:31down
35:31and
35:32they
35:32were
35:32the
35:33coordinators
35:33for
35:34Pakatan
35:34Harapan
35:34Sabah
35:34for
35:35them
35:35to
35:35be
35:35able
35:36to
35:36walk
35:36out
35:36like
35:36that
35:37before
35:37even
35:37a
35:38decision
35:38was
35:38made
35:39showcases
35:40the
35:41fragility
35:42of
35:42working
35:43together
35:43with
35:43Pakatan
35:44Harapan
35:44and
35:45shows
35:45that
35:45maybe
35:46aligning
35:48yourself
35:48with
35:48Pakatan
35:49Harapan
35:50with
35:50the
35:50unity
35:50government
35:51may
35:51do
35:52more
35:52damage
35:52than
35:52does
35:53give
35:53benefits
35:53okay
35:55we'll
35:55see
35:55how
35:56the
35:56election
35:56is
35:57going
35:57to
35:57pan
35:58out
35:58and
35:58of
35:59course
35:59you
35:59can
35:59watch
36:00all
36:00the
36:01elements
36:02and
36:02of
36:02course
36:02updates
36:03on
36:03Sabah
36:03elections
36:04on
36:05Astro
36:06Awani
36:06Sabah
36:06Memilih
36:07is
36:07our
36:08predominant
36:09show
36:10covering
36:11the
36:11elections
36:12there's
36:12going to
36:12be a
36:12lot
36:12more
36:13content
36:13like
36:13this
36:14in
36:14the
36:14weeks
36:15to
36:15come
36:15until
36:1529
36:17of
36:17November
36:19and
36:20even
36:20so
36:20you
36:21are not
36:22the
36:22first
36:22person
36:22or
36:22the
36:22last
36:23person
36:23to
36:23say
36:23that
36:23negotiations
36:24might
36:25further
36:25take
36:25place
36:26even
36:26after
36:26polling
36:27day
36:27to
36:27determine
36:27who
36:28has
36:29the
36:29willpower
36:30to
36:31and
36:32the
36:32political
36:32will
36:32and
36:33mandate
36:33to
36:34actually
36:34govern
36:34Sabah
36:35so
36:36there's
36:36a lot
36:36of
36:37developments
36:37here
36:37until
36:38then
36:38thanks
36:38very
36:38much
36:39for
36:39watching
36:39catch
36:39you
36:40in
36:40the
36:40next
36:40one
36:45you
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