- 9 months ago
In this episode of Biscuits & Jam, Sid Evans sits down with Erika Council, the owner of Atlanta’s Bomb Biscuits Co. and James Beard Award-nominated author for ‘Still We Rise: A Love Letter to the Southern Biscuit’. Erika discusses her culinary-focused upbringing in Durham, North Carolina, where her grandmother’s restaurant “Mama Dip’s Kitchen” played a pivotal role in her future as a chef and restaurateur. Plus, she talks about how she found success with breakfast and biscuit pop-ups, the initial reluctance to open her own restaurant, and the importance of continuing the Council Family’s legacy of cooking.
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00:00Well, Erica Council, welcome to Biscuits and Jam.
00:02Thank you for having me. That's my thing, Biscuits and Jam.
00:05I know. I don't think I've ever had a more appropriate guest to Biscuits and Jam.
00:12Truly. I'm like, yeah, that's me. That's the story of my life.
00:17Well, I mean, you were just here for the Southbound Food Festival.
00:22Yeah.
00:23And so we're doing this live in Birmingham in our little office studio here.
00:30Yeah, it's exciting. I love it. Walked through the test kitchen. I feel like I should have made biscuits.
00:35You should have.
00:35I know. I feel bad. I'm coming in to hand it.
00:38I was like, should I get some flour and butter and throw some stuff together maybe real quick?
00:43We have plenty of flour and butter here.
00:45I was going to say, truly, truly. I have to come back. It's only two hours. I'll come back.
00:49You've got to come back.
00:49I'll come back.
00:51But, you know, you were serving biscuits yesterday.
00:55Yeah, fried chicken.
00:56At something called the Funk Brunch, which is part of the Southbound Food Festival.
01:01And I was so bummed because I got there late and I missed having one of your biscuits.
01:09Listen, the line never stopped and said I didn't have anything.
01:14They disappeared. I mean, they were all gone.
01:16Yeah, I mean, I was just like, give us a sec because we were frying the chicken outside.
01:19Yeah.
01:20Just, you know, and it was like, okay, well, we would batch and fry it in batches and just couldn't keep up with the line.
01:25It's great, but I hate, you know, I hate you missed it.
01:29Yeah, well.
01:30Again, I'll come back. I'll bring it back.
01:32Okay, you've got to come back.
01:35Well, so, Erica, I want to hear a little bit about your hometown where you grew up.
01:39You're from eastern North Carolina.
01:42Yeah, well, so I grew up in Durham, but I spent a lot of time 45 minutes away in Goldsboro, North Carolina, which my mom was a single mother and her mother did a lot for me.
01:53She picked me up from school and take me to Goldsboro, which is a home of Wilbur's Barbecue.
01:57Yeah, right.
01:59You know, so eastern North Carolina barbecue, the best you can eat.
02:01So, I guess my neighborhood, I would say, was more Goldsboro, even though I, you know, went to school in Durham and grew up there.
02:10You know, I just spent every weekend, every holiday.
02:13So, just being in that area, so it's a small town, barbecue is king, and barbecue and Jesus, I would say.
02:23So, I mean, when we weren't, you know, eating or just hanging out, we were at church.
02:28So, you know, my life kind of existed around these amazing church ladies who baked and cooked and ran the church kitchen like a five-star Michelin restaurant, a three-star Michelin restaurant, and it just, you know, and that was all I was really exposed to.
02:47And the opposite side of that was when I did spend time with my dad and got to Chapel Hill, I saw Mildred Council, who was my paternal grandmother, Mama Dip, and just running this phenomenal empire of a southern restaurant.
03:01So, my sort of childhood, even all the way into adulthood, I was surrounded by these phenomenal women, some in the culinary industry, some just culinary geniuses in their homes, who cooked well.
03:16And I just knew that even if I didn't go into this business, because that was never my plan, I was always going to be a great cook, because I didn't want anyone to talk about me like they would talk about those.
03:26So, I hear them talking about ladies coming in whenever, oh, no, you don't want to eat her food, it's no good.
03:31So, I was like, for me, I just knew I had to do whatever I needed to do to make really great biscuits.
03:37I needed to know how to make things like caramel cake, coconut cake, and pies, those are the first things, and fried chicken.
03:43So, like, those are things that all the women, even men who could do those things, had great adulation, and that was going to be my story, too.
03:52Just to have some status in the family, you needed to be able to cook.
03:56Just in general, I didn't want anyone to talk about me on a Saturday afternoon, like, oh, gosh, you brought that potato salad.
04:03It was terrible.
04:04You know, like, those are the conversations I used to hear just sitting around as a little girl, like these, you know, these beautiful church ladies in these hats.
04:11So, I went, oh, yeah, she's nice, but that girl can't cook no pie.
04:15So, I was like, no, that would never be me.
04:16They're going to say, yeah, she can cook.
04:18So, they could throw some shade.
04:19They could throw some shade in the best way.
04:21Bless her heart.
04:22She cooked that cake in a casserole dish.
04:25So, yeah, instead of a blunt pan or a layer cake.
04:28But, yeah, that was just never going to be, I was never going to be on the negative side of that.
04:32I was going to be on positive.
04:34But, yeah, I mean, experience-wise, like, I just, I saw that, and then I saw my mom, who is a, didn't cook, you know.
04:42So, she'll listen to this and be like, I cooked.
04:44But, no, she didn't cook.
04:46But she definitely was, you know, she went to grad school, and she was getting, she was working at IBM as an engineer.
04:52So, those, I saw this, you know, opposite side of that.
04:56And I was just like, okay, that's what I'm going to be.
04:57I'm going to be a great cook, but I'm also going to be an engineer.
05:01I'm going to be in corporate America.
05:02I mean, I just was always in awe of, you know, even when we were struggling, her as a single mother, she never exposed that to me.
05:11It was always like, no, we're fine.
05:12Everything's fine.
05:13We're going to do what we have to do.
05:15And that just, that, I guess, that, what's the word I'm looking for?
05:21That feeling that just having that power behind you and saying, I'm going to persevere.
05:27Yeah.
05:27It's just, it's the opposite, it's what I was exposed to the most, too, on the opposite side of that.
05:33A lot of strong women.
05:35Yeah.
05:36Yeah.
05:36So, Erica, you grew up surrounded by cooks.
05:42Yeah.
05:43And you were in a lot of kitchens.
05:48You experienced a lot of kitchens.
05:50Yeah.
05:50And I'm wondering, when you think about all those kitchens, was there one kitchen that really comes to mind as the place where you learned the most or where you spent the most time?
06:06And if you could kind of paint a picture of that kitchen for me.
06:09Like, what does it look like?
06:10What does it smell like?
06:11Like, what was happening in that kitchen on a typical night?
06:15Absolutely.
06:16Like, it's such a visceral, like, I can visualize, I can close my eyes and still smell what my mother's kitchen, Geraldine Dorich, called a granny, smelled like.
06:26And the feeling that you felt walking into that home.
06:32So, the side door is where you came through, because only the pastor could come through the front door.
06:38So, that brought you through to the kitchen.
06:39And it was always painted yellow.
06:42It was always just buttery, yellow.
06:45And, you know, towards the late 90s, she got a little funky and painted the cabinet doors pink.
06:51So, it was pink and yellow.
06:52But it was always this sort of butter yellow color.
06:56And just the warmth that radiated from that kitchen.
06:59But the main thing that I always bore witness to was she never turned anyone away.
07:05So, like, when she made stuff, she made plates.
07:08You know, you would come through that side door.
07:11I got some barbecue chicken or, like, so not just the cooking, but that, you know, feeling of you can cook, but you want to make this, how does this make someone feel?
07:21Not just the food you're making, but just feeding them and being that sort of support and kindness.
07:29That was just something she exuded in every, just everything she did.
07:35And I just know, for me growing up, I mean, when she would be cooking, like, I tell a story in my cookbook.
07:41The first time I tried to make biscuits, which was an epic fail.
07:45And they just sort of burned.
07:47And it was too much everything in it.
07:49So, like, it was spilling into the oven.
07:51And the fire alarm went off.
07:53But I was just trying to impress her.
07:55Like, I wanted her to see that.
07:56This is your mother's mother.
07:57My mother's mother.
07:58Yeah.
07:58Yeah, and so, I mean, obviously they burned.
08:01She runs up into the kitchen, starting to get the alarm off.
08:04Oh, God, what's going on?
08:06And in the end, we sat down, and she ate the biscuits.
08:09She got some jam, and she said, we're going to look at this.
08:11We're going to see what you made.
08:12Where you made the mistake.
08:13You're going to try it again.
08:15And, you know, and so we're going to eat them.
08:17We're going to taste them so you can tell the difference, what's wrong, what you don't like.
08:21And, like, that lesson has sat with me in everything that I do.
08:24So, like, all the mistakes or things that I've done wrong, like, I always just sit down.
08:29I remember that.
08:30So, it wasn't just the food that we cooked.
08:32She was a phenomenal baker, too.
08:35So, just not just what we cooked and baked, but also the lessons that came, the stories she told about history that I always thought were so, like, wow, that's crazy.
08:47It ended up actually being true stories.
08:49Like, she was just kind of telling me this as she cooked.
08:51So, those are things, like, when I'm making something, when I'm making coconut cake or a lemon cake that she would always make, I think about, oh, you would slice these up and wrap them in plastic and sell them and raise them money for the civil rights movement.
09:04So, just those kind of things when I'm baking some of her older recipes, I just remember the stories she told me.
09:09So, it would definitely be her kitchen that I have the fondest memory of.
09:14Yeah.
09:15It sounds like she taught you a lot about hospitality as well as cooking, just kind of taking care of people.
09:23Indirectly.
09:24Yeah.
09:24Indirectly, she did.
09:25I mean, she definitely, you know, as a child of the South, I mean, really honed in on, you know, being, you know, a leader, if you can.
09:36And anything that you have, you need to be able to pull as you climb, was, I guess, the saying.
09:42And especially in the African-American community, it was just very much, if you have something, if you have an opportunity, you should never turn around and not see anyone that looks like you.
09:51Or you haven't done a good job.
09:55So, you know, that definitely is something I've carried with me because that was just something she carried and was very, very adamant about in everything.
10:04So, okay, so what have you done to help better the community that you're a part of?
10:09So, you know, now in my restaurant, I'm always looking for people, you know, who need, if you need help, if you need anything you need.
10:18Like, I'm here, come to me, and just feeding and food-wise a job, and that always doesn't work out in my favor.
10:26But it's just, it's something I'm kind of stuck on, like, you know, so yeah.
10:32So there was a real connection between food and the civil rights movement for her.
10:40And she said she was raising money, was she, she was selling baked goods to raise money.
10:46Which was, was, was, you know, hearing these stories was, was just something that a lot of black households did.
10:54Or, you know, so hearing her tell me those stories, and then, you know, growing up and hearing other people's stories about their grandparents and things like that,
11:02who were also involved in those, you know, activism and things of that nature.
11:07But, yeah, she told stories of going to the March on Washington.
11:10They, they raised money to get buses to go to that.
11:13It still had the badge, you know, the free people, the food march.
11:17Like, you know, the, the march for, for freedom, jobs and freedom.
11:20You know, I'm trying to say tongue-tied today.
11:22So, so those type of stories that she would tell me, it's just, most of the time, it was in the kitchen as we cooked or baked.
11:30And, and all of those really kind of just remained with me, you know, yeah.
11:34Do you have any of her tools from the kitchen, like a skillet or a bowl?
11:41I do.
11:41Do you?
11:42I do.
11:42I have her cast iron.
11:43I don't use it.
11:44I have, it's funny, oddly enough, she had her mother's, some of her mother's sheet pans.
11:51When you would buy a cake mix and they would come with the, the sheet pan, 45 cents for that.
11:57So I have some of those pie pans and a couple of those sheet pans.
12:00I don't use them anymore.
12:02And like, um, a sifter that she had, um, they're just kind of sitting up on the, I do have one, um, bunt pan that she will always make her cakes in.
12:11I still use that.
12:13Um, but yeah, I have a lot of her, um, all of her crystal.
12:16She always had these beautiful crystal dishes that she would, like her deviled egg pan, her deviled egg crystal.
12:23I've never seen anyone have so many deviled egg dishes.
12:27Like what, like what were you doing?
12:29How many different kinds do you need?
12:31I know.
12:31So she had 12, I have 12 of the ones she had to think my mother has the rest.
12:35And like they're pink.
12:36She has some of the seventies green, you know, and everyone's getting the green looking, uh, glass.
12:41It's just the pyrex, the crisp.
12:43So, and they're just sitting there and it's, the other day, it's funny.
12:46My son was like, what are we going to do with the, with the, uh, with the whole dishes?
12:50And I'm like, they're not whole dishes.
12:52They're, they're deviled.
12:53I'm explaining him what deviled egg is.
12:56And it's funny cause he's, he's allergic to eggs.
12:59So he's never had a deviled egg.
13:01So I was like, I feel I've deprived you.
13:03You can't eat deviled eggs.
13:04Like you have to have a deviled egg on this deviled egg plate.
13:08But yeah.
13:09Well, that's great.
13:11Well, don't ever let go of those.
13:12No, no.
13:14Um, so Eric, I want to ask you about your other grandmother.
13:18Yes.
13:19Mildred Council, um, Mildred Cotton Council, I think was her full name.
13:23Yeah.
13:24And Mama Dip, um, who is kind of a legend in the food world.
13:30Um, but there, I think there are probably people listening who don't know her story.
13:36Um, and they don't know about her career and her restaurant and the cookbooks and everything
13:42else she did.
13:43And I'm just wondering if you could kind of, um, you know, give me like a short version
13:49of, of her story and, and the impact that she had, um, in the food world and in her community.
13:55Absolutely.
13:56I think, you know, she also was a beacon in her community as far as, um, pulling as you
14:02climb.
14:03She's a shining example of that.
14:05It was much more well known.
14:07Um, but yeah, so she, uh, started her own restaurant in the late seventies.
14:12Um, and she only had enough money to, to serve breakfast, uh, 1977, I believe, 77, 76.
14:19She only had enough money to serve breakfast, but she bought the things for breakfast, made
14:24enough money to buy things for lunch, served lunch, bought the things to, uh, serve dinner
14:29and the rest is history.
14:31Um, I love that part of her cookbook, um, that she put in there and just, she was a beacon.
14:36Uh, mama dips there for over 50 years.
14:40And this is in Chapel Hill, right?
14:41In Chapel Hill, North Carolina.
14:42I'm not too far from, uh, UNC Chapel Hill where both my parents went to college, um, which
14:48is how they met.
14:49Uh, but yeah, so she was a, you know, soul food, I guess would be the term that a lot
14:56of people would put on it.
14:57But, um, it was just your basic country cooking, meat and three, uh, fried chicken or hush
15:03puppies were probably the best thing I always loved.
15:05Oh, there's puppies and sweet potato biscuits.
15:07Um, and yeah, so she, she had the restaurant in a smaller space and then she bought the
15:13land and built a bigger restaurant right across the street in the nineties and just fed everyone
15:18from presidents to Dean Smith to Michael Jordan.
15:22Um, you know, but as I was growing up, she just was like your grandmother who had a restaurant.
15:30Um, you know, once I got older and then I knew she wrote a cookbook and things like
15:35that.
15:36I just, and I remember her coming to my high school graduation and, um, someone saying
15:40to me, I've seen her on TV before.
15:43I was like, who?
15:44You know, it just was so, I mean, this, this was in the nineties.
15:47I was like, my grandmother, you seen her on TV?
15:49Yes.
15:49I mean, she had been on TV.
15:50It was just, it's just something.
15:51And I, I think now when my kids will hear something about me, they'll be like, your mom?
15:57You did what?
15:58She was like, like, my son is very good about it.
16:00He's like, were you, did you do something recently?
16:03People ask me about, so it's like, I guess it's full circle.
16:06Um, but yeah, it's now like my entire youth and just seeing her, you know, from a perspective
16:14of, of someone who worked every day, worked, you know, put her heart and soul into something.
16:19And, and when people will say, oh, I used to love to go to your grandma's restaurant, she
16:23was always sitting out front and greeting people, you know, that type of feeling just, just that
16:28she took pride in everyone that was coming into a restaurant and wanted to make sure she
16:32spoke to them.
16:33Um, I love to hear that literally everyone who mentions her to me always mentions that.
16:38And it's just those small things that are just make such an impact on people's lives.
16:43So you're feeding people, you're also going out and talking to them and engaging with them.
16:48Um, yeah.
16:49And, and, and, you know, she was the daughter of a sharecropper.
16:52So the farm to table story was something that was always, um, there, not just with her, but
16:57even on my mom's side, it was just always farm to table.
17:00So like, you know, as it became, you know, more known, I guess, as the mainstream or whatever,
17:06I'm just like, well, that was all I ever had.
17:09Like, that's one of the reasons why I can make jams from scratch and things like that.
17:12Cause I mean, my girl, I didn't go to a store like that, but you can make it.
17:16Um, so yeah, so her, her story is definitely something that has driven me on the restaurant
17:21side.
17:22Now that I've ventured into this entrepreneurial and, you know, culinary space, um, and telling
17:28the story and making sure that story reflects in what you serve and, and the way you carry
17:32yourself and, and, um, treat people also.
17:35Yeah.
17:35I mean, I just love that picture of her sitting on the, you know, out front and greeting people.
17:42Yeah.
17:42She had a little booth, um, when she passed away, they had a little sign engraved on that
17:46booth.
17:47Um, you know, and I have a picture, I think, um, I think I posted it on Instagram, um, you
17:54know, years ago, uh, and my aunt Niecy, who also has her own, you know, one thing I'll say
17:59about grandma Deb is she encouraged everyone.
18:01Like everyone has kind of been able to, to grow off her legacy.
18:05So like her, her children, my aunt Spring, um, is writing a cookbook.
18:10My aunt Niecy has a cake mix, uh, sweet Niecy cake mix.
18:13Um, my cousin Tanya, uh, has restaurants in North Carolina.
18:17So like, you know, a lot of them have, have created their own success as well.
18:23So I think that, you know, her, her legacy lives on, you know.
18:27Yeah.
18:27That's amazing.
18:29It's, it's, she's just kind of planted all these.
18:31Yeah.
18:32You know, whether she knew it, she was intentional in doing that or not.
18:36She did, you know?
18:38And so, yeah, it's great.
18:40Uh, so mama dips, um, closed its doors.
18:45Um, so I'm a little confused on how this happened, but I think it closed in 2024, but then really
18:52even just this past summer in 2025, it seems like it, it finally stopped serving, is that
19:00right?
19:00Yeah.
19:00They were still doing, yeah, serving, um, you know, dishes.
19:03And I think they were still doing like catering things, um, but officially closed.
19:08Yeah.
19:09Yeah.
19:09Yeah.
19:09In, in, in 2025.
19:11What was the reaction in the community?
19:15Um, when that, when mama dips finally closed and, and, you know, just, I know there was kind
19:21of a reaction across the South and there were all these accolades, um, and stories about
19:28the impact of the restaurant and her career, but, you know, but there in Chapel Hill in that
19:35community, um, just tell me a little bit about that, um, aspect of it and how people responded.
19:42Yeah.
19:43I mean, you know, I don't, don't live in Chapel Hill.
19:46Uh, so.
19:46Right, right.
19:47But you spent a lot of time there.
19:49Yeah.
19:50Well, yeah, I have.
19:51I think, I think the reaction from what I have gathered was it, is something was coming.
19:58Yeah.
19:58So it wasn't as if, if it had been an abrupt closure, I think the reaction would have been
20:03a little differently.
20:04Um, obviously sadness, cause this is, this is an institution.
20:08It wasn't, um, just like Crook's Culiner, you know, um, it's just like,
20:12just, you know, and it's, it's always tough to see these sort of institutions, uh, you
20:18know, it was always already hard to, to see her pass, but then to see the institution
20:23she grew past, you know, leave as well, you know, in any case, I think that always sort
20:28of causes this sort of sadness, I would say, um, I kind of picked up on and just, you
20:35know, what, you know, what's next, I think was mainly the question.
20:38And I think from what I've seen, I mean, it was positive, everyone wants to know what's
20:43next.
20:43And I love that they asked me and I'm like, you know, I don't know, cause, cause so many
20:47of us, uh, you know, are doing different things are, are in the culinary world.
20:53So I think what I've seen lately is just like, well, what's next?
20:57Like, what are you guys going to do next?
20:59Or what are they going to do next?
21:00You know, and that my question too, I mean, I hope that, you know, they decide to, you
21:08know, but ultimately that'll be up to her children, my aunts, and they want to keep, you know,
21:13going in, in a different iteration.
21:15But I mean, the, the legacy is still there.
21:17The love is still there.
21:18The, the customer base is still there.
21:20So, um, you know, I think they could still definitely continue on in a different iteration,
21:26just probably not in such a bigger, biggest space as what they had before.
21:31Right.
21:31I don't know.
21:32Well, I love that so much of what you're doing is a tribute to her.
21:36Absolutely.
21:37Absolutely.
21:37And a tribute to that, that, that council legacy.
21:42Absolutely.
21:42You know.
21:43Yeah.
21:43100%.
21:44Yeah.
21:44I have all the pictures on the wall and people ask me the story.
21:47Oh, I, cause I, I have, I have two, you know, all the, from my mom's side and, um,
21:52you know, my dad's side, grandma's side, grandma's side, and my aunt does a picture of Southern
21:55Living.
21:55Did the piece.
21:56Uh, they did a piece on us, uh, and it's a, it's a beautiful photo they took.
22:00It was me, my cousin, Tanya with the restaurant, my aunt Nisi with the cake makes them all
22:05in spring.
22:05There's a cookbook coming out.
22:06Against that blue background.
22:07I know that.
22:08I think that one, yes.
22:09That's, that's hanging in the restaurant and people always will ask, this is the house
22:13that mama do it build.
22:13I just, I think it's such a great, you know what I mean?
22:16And that, that, the whole piece was just very like, you know, speaking on not just her,
22:21but what, what has come out of, um, you know, what she created.
22:26So yeah, well, I want to talk a little bit about your journey and particularly in the
22:32last, last few years.
22:33I mean, you, you had, um, you had a little bit of a detour for a long time.
22:39Long time, the reluctant restaurant owner.
22:42Yeah.
22:43You know, I guess the flip side of being exposed to all of that, it was, this was just never
22:48anything I was going to, I was never going to open a restaurant.
22:51Um, I was seen enough, like you knew how hard it was.
22:54No, I wasn't going to do that.
22:56Um, you know, I worked in them when I was in college, I did bartending restaurant.
23:00I mean, even once I was working, um, you know, graduated college and was working full
23:05time.
23:06I mean, I still, you know, I had found myself as a single mother before I got married again.
23:10Uh, so I worked, you know, at night at the cheesecake factory, waiting tables.
23:15So, so I just, you know, I was like, cool, but this solidifies.
23:19I'm never going to, you know, venture off.
23:21But the other side, I, you know, I would cook at home.
23:24I would do Sunday suppers because it just, it still calmed my nerves.
23:28There was something about cooking for people, having people over.
23:32Um, they just, I don't know, called me or brought me some sense of normalcy.
23:38Um, you know, and especially after my mother's mom passed, you know, cause Sunday dinner was
23:43such a big thing.
23:45Um, you know, so I just was like, okay, well I need to keep doing this, even if it's just
23:50in my house, even if it's just friends and that kind of grew into, I started writing a
23:55food blog and I mainly did that because again, my mom, mom developed Alzheimer's.
24:00So I just wanted to put down the stories that I remembered her telling me along with the
24:04recipes that I did that briefly.
24:07And I started, you know, doing more Sunday suppers when I moved to Atlanta, I moved from
24:11Charlotte to Atlanta for work originally.
24:14I got married again and we're doing bigger Sunday suppers.
24:18Uh, and so I, I ended up meeting, um, a lot of people in the industry in Atlanta.
24:26I mean, we just sort of circled around and started doing Sunday supper pop-ups.
24:31Um, we just sell tickets and the people would come, the Garner girls, they had, uh, pickles,
24:36but they had a beautiful test kitchen, um, with a long, uh, tablecloth table and all that.
24:43So I did a couple there.
24:45Um, I met the gentlemen that the guys that own Kimball house and they became really great
24:49friends and supporters.
24:50So I started, they allowed me to pop up in their beautiful space, which is amazing because
24:54they barely knew me.
24:56Um, that was over 10 years ago, which is crazy to me.
24:59Um, so yeah, so like that just sort of grew organically into me one day meeting a gentleman
25:06named Brian Furman, um, from Bee's Cracklin' Barbecue.
25:09A barbecue genius, yes.
25:11Barbecue genius.
25:12And he said, hey, you know, I'm up early.
25:14I'm opening a restaurant in Atlanta.
25:16You want to do like breakfast pop-ups here or biscuits?
25:19Your biscuits are great.
25:20Um, so actually the first pop-up we did, um, was like a tribute to Black History Month and
25:25we had another black chef, uh, Mike Sheets was there.
25:29Um, and then the following weekend I did the first breakfast pop-up, the biscuit, had fried
25:35chicken, um, Brian had, uh, his brisket that we were adding on to potatoes.
25:40It was very simple, biscuits and gravy.
25:42We sold over a thousand biscuits.
25:45Um, and I said, I remember leaving that day and I said, wow, this is not at all what I
25:51had planned.
25:52Um, and just there, I, I would say from that, the rest is history because I mean, Brian's
25:58place ended up burning down.
26:00But at that point I had, you know, a pretty decent following.
26:03Um, so I was still doing corporate catering.
26:06Mind you, I was still working.
26:08Yeah.
26:09You were doing two jobs.
26:10Yeah, I was doing two jobs.
26:11So I did, uh, I was a Salesforce, um, it's just the engineer, but it was a developer,
26:17uh, analytics, um, developed Salesforce software.
26:21Um, and I just sort of did the consulting side.
26:24So a lot of those jobs were in the evening once people had gotten off the system.
26:28Um, so like in the morning I'm making biscuits, I'm doing a couple of those gigs and then
26:34COVID hit and well, this was kind of right before COVID.
26:40I got an email from a gentleman.
26:42They were like, you know, would you be okay with, um, dropping off biscuits, uh, to my team?
26:49Cause I had done some, um, like a couple of catered breakfasts while, you know, we're on
26:54these zoo meetings.
26:55Uh, that was the very beginning of the, we need to stay home.
26:59And I was like, no, I'm not about to ride around Atlanta dropping off biscuits.
27:03My daughter was home from college and she said, yeah, let's do it.
27:06You know, because then you're 18, everything's easy.
27:09Why not?
27:09Why not?
27:10And so we did that.
27:13And again, the rest of that was history because the last delivery I did for that, it was, um,
27:18115 deliveries in two days.
27:21And I remember telling my husband like, okay, I think maybe I should look at something else.
27:29And he was like, are you sure?
27:30Because you have been very, very like, I am not opening a restaurant.
27:35I'm not doing, and I, and the people who have known me from the beginning of this journey,
27:40always like I saw, um, Dwayne Nutter, uh, yesterday he was like, I just, I just have to
27:45laugh sometimes.
27:46Cause it is true.
27:47I laugh at myself.
27:48And so in 2020, um, right before 2021, we opened, um, a little small stall, uh, in a
27:56food hall across from Croc street market.
27:59And again, the rest is history.
28:02Now we're in a, uh, almost 3000 square foot space.
28:05Wow.
28:06Um, and it's bomb, bomb biscuit company.
28:09Sorry, bomb biscuit company.
28:10And we started with just biscuits, uh, plain biscuit.
28:15But, and that grew to sandwiches and fried chicken, um, fried chicken biscuits.
28:20And now we're a full fledged front restaurant.
28:23So what were you making at the beginning?
28:25I mean, what was the actual, the biscuit that you were making?
28:28You know, you've got a cookbook out now, which we'll talk about in a second, but, um, and
28:34that has like 70 different biscuits in it.
28:37Yeah.
28:37But, you know, in the early days, what were you, what were you making?
28:40What was that kind of first biscuit?
28:43Biscuits and jam.
28:46Ironically enough.
28:47So I always had a thing for making jam because my granny made jam out of everything, cantaloupe,
28:54watermelon.
28:55Uh, so I would sell like buttermilk biscuits and jam.
28:58Yeah.
28:59You come in a box, you get a dozen, half a dozen.
29:01And, and just whatever the seasonal, uh, fruit was, sometimes vegetable, I mean, sweet potato
29:06butter, um, would be, you get a like eight ounce or six ounce, eight ounce, um, you know,
29:11container of that.
29:12Yeah.
29:13Then I started doing like the pickled jalapeno cheddar biscuits, black pepper bacon.
29:19Um, and then it would just kind of rotate into specialty, how I was feeling.
29:23Um, my daughter one day recommended I should put chocolate chips in biscuits.
29:27And that's like one of my most popular biscuits now.
29:29Oh, really?
29:30Yeah.
29:30Um, I have a gentleman that comes in and orders a chocolate chip biscuit with bacon, egg, and
29:34cheese.
29:36Don't get, hey, whatever, whatever floats your boat.
29:39Yeah.
29:40I, I, that's, that would not be for me.
29:41It wouldn't be for me, but I have to tell you, I did, I was intrigued.
29:44So I tried it and it's not bad.
29:46Okay.
29:46It's not bad.
29:47Um, not for everyone though, but yeah, so we used to sell it and they were much smaller.
29:52Like they were smaller, but it's like probably just the two inch ones.
29:55Um, and that kind of grew into when we would do farmer's markets.
29:59When I started doing the events at Brian's spot, we started adding more meat to it, like
30:03country ham, which he was making the fried chicken, um, pimento cheese, you know, going
30:10along with that.
30:10But, and then it just kind of grew as I started creating more with biscuits, like adding different
30:16accomplishments.
30:17Um, like I make a cobbler like biscuit and that came from my great aunt ring.
30:22So she would have this sort of cake, but it was a biscuit.
30:27Um, and it was cooked in like a cake dish and it was sliced.
30:31It was like a huge shortcake basically.
30:32And whatever fruit she would stew and put on there and then it would be this whipped cream
30:37and she put the top and then cut it in, you know, uh, like a slice of cake.
30:42Yeah.
30:43And that was one of the best things I can remember growing up eating.
30:46It was just, it was so good.
30:48I've noticed her my granny did that because she had to know she made the best cake.
30:50Um, but so like I tried to recreate that biscuit form and it really did taste like maybe she
30:57was using the first, uh, white lily flour and cream and just, um, so I do a lot of those,
31:02but yeah, so I was making more, um, just plain biscuits and that grew to adding more meats
31:07to it and just getting a little more creative with shortcake, especially when people were
31:11coming in to eat them versus dropping it off.
31:14Um, but yeah, like it really literally started with biscuits and jam.
31:20We should have had a partnership or something.
31:23I know, I know.
31:24It literally started with that and it's, and it still does.
31:28I mean, that's still really, um, we're about to start doing, um, I use Banner Butter, which
31:32is a local, um, butter company in Atlanta.
31:35Um, shout out to them, Jonathan.
31:37Um, and I get pails of five gallon buttermilk that all set of churning butter, um, every week.
31:43But we're about to start doing baskets to kind of take it back to the biscuits and jam,
31:47doing a little small, probably, uh, two inch or one and a half inch biscuits and then
31:52getting little butter packs and jam in the, in a basket with different assortment of biscuits
31:57because people are, have come asking, when are you going to do the boxes again?
32:01Yeah, sign me up.
32:02I want to be one of your first.
32:04Yes, absolutely.
32:05Absolutely.
32:05So we're definitely going to, I mean, we sell the boxes and still the cute little tent,
32:10um, they're like the bento boxes.
32:11Yeah.
32:11I still do that, um, but people are like, well, can we come in and get kind of like
32:15a sampler tray?
32:16Yeah.
32:17Um, so we're going to take it back.
32:19We're going to run it back to the old school.
32:21Well, I have not been to Bomb Biscuit Company, but I have heard that you got to get there
32:26early.
32:27You do.
32:28You have to get there early.
32:28Especially on a weekend, right?
32:29On a weekend, you want to be there by nine o'clock.
32:32Yeah.
32:32Yeah.
32:33Because it's, you know, everyone gets up at 10 and gets there at 11.
32:36Yeah.
32:37I mean, it's a, it's a blessing.
32:38It's a good thing to have.
32:40I'm sorry for the wait.
32:42Let me, let me caveat with that.
32:44I apologize for the wait.
32:46Um, you know, we, we, we're pumping out.
32:48We have a bigger kitchen now and we're seeing more families and I, and I love that because
32:54it kind of grew from, you know, a takeout spot to we had the other spot we had was, you
32:59know, it was still smaller and like, but this one we have larger tables.
33:03Like we only had two tops really at the old space.
33:05So I love seeing the families come in.
33:07I love hearing babies cry.
33:09You know what I mean?
33:10Like that, that means that you brought in your kids and that means that you feel comfortable
33:14in my space to bring your kids in the early morning on a Saturday.
33:18Like, I mean, for, you know, you know how tough that is to get your kids up and get going.
33:23You're here and you, I want you to enjoy this experience.
33:27Um, so, so yeah, I, I love that.
33:30Yes.
33:30You need to get there early.
33:31If you come Wednesday or Thursday would be my, I mean, you get right in and out.
33:36Um, Friday is touch and go, um, but Saturday and Sunday and that's really for all breakfast
33:42places in Atlanta that are good.
33:44Um, it's just, it's just, it's just, you gotta wait if you wait till noon.
33:49That's a good problem to have.
33:51It is.
33:52It is.
33:53And you know, those little kids, every one of those little kids, um, well, maybe not
33:57the real little ones, but, you know, they're a little bit older.
34:00They're, this is part of their memories and they're going to, they're going to remember
34:04going there.
34:05Yeah.
34:05You know, I go out and a lot of them I recognize.
34:08I used to, it's a couple of kids whose parents have been coming to me since I had the smaller
34:13space.
34:13So like, I remember before they were born and being able to say that this is, we're in our
34:18fifth year of operation.
34:20So, um, my friend Andy, who, uh, shot my cookbook, Andrew Thomas Lee, um, he brings his girls in
34:26so his wife can rest on the, on the weekends.
34:28And I mean, those, I feel like they're my kids, you know, um, one of them drew a picture of
34:34bomb biscuits and sitting in now when we moved to the other space, I said, I'm going to
34:37frame this, I'm going to hang it up.
34:38So it's the first, one of the first pictures you see when you come in and like those types
34:43of connections to me just remind me so much of, of my grandma did because that was a connection
34:48she had with her customers.
34:49Um, whereas, you know, my granny didn't interact on my mom's side, um, with customers, but definitely
34:54like the church kitchen and the parishioners and stuff.
34:57So, so yeah, so I still having a connection, but the kids, I love the kids.
35:01Like the ones that come in every Saturday, even know me sometimes are so bold and just walk
35:06back into, like, you can't walk back here in the kitchen if they see me, you know, like
35:10I'll try to go out there and speak.
35:11I always have stickers in my pocket or something like that.
35:14But yeah, I mean, this, this is, you want to nurture those relationships.
35:17You want them to feel, uh, a certain way, not, not just kids, but just, you know, but
35:22that is a very important, uh, feeling to say, oh, okay, I love going there.
35:26Make them feel at home.
35:27Yeah.
35:28Make them feel like home.
35:29So they feel comfortable eating and things like that.
35:31Yeah.
35:32Um, Eric, I want to ask you about your, uh, your cookbook, um, which, which came out, it's
35:39all, it's coming up on, I think it's been a couple of years now.
35:42Yeah.
35:42It came out in 2023.
35:43It's called Still We Rise.
35:45Yeah.
35:46And it's, the subtitle is A Love Letter to the Southern Biscuit.
35:51Yes.
35:52Um, and there are a ton of biscuit recipes in there, as we mentioned before, and they're,
36:00they're all different kinds.
36:02And, and, you know, some of them are, um, I mean, just the names are great.
36:08I mean, there's the Duke's Mayo biscuits.
36:11Yes.
36:11There's Butterswim biscuits.
36:13There's Coke, Coca-Cola biscuits.
36:15Yes.
36:15Um, the Glora fried chicken biscuits.
36:19That's the chicken.
36:19And so of all those recipes, um, what are, what's one or two that have kind of stood
36:29out for you and, and, you know, now that this cookbook has been out in the world for
36:34a while that you, that you continue to hear about.
36:36Yeah.
36:37Well, I'll say the Butterswims because people, um, I like a salty, but so the biscuit is meant
36:44to be a little salty.
36:45Yeah.
36:46And, um, some of the people who have baked them, like that's the main comment I get.
36:49It's too much salt.
36:51So that's probably the one that sticks out in my head the most.
36:55But that's how you like it.
36:56Yeah.
36:56It is.
36:57And it's just, you know, I always will respond.
36:59Well, you know, when it first came out, I responded, I'd be like, you can dial the salt
37:03bag.
37:03It's totally okay.
37:04But for me, I like the saltiness of that biscuit.
37:07It's the one you cook in a casserole dish.
37:10Um, and so you, you melt the butter, um, you melt the butter in the, you can use a cast
37:15iron skillet, uh, cast, it's like the anti biscuit because everything you do is like the
37:21anti what they tell you to make a good biscuit.
37:24So the buttermilk is warm.
37:26Uh, the butter is melted and you're, you're mixing it like pancake and then you're scooping
37:32it into a casserole dish and like just smoothing it out like it's cake.
37:36Yeah.
37:36Um, and you're cutting little squares into it, into the dough before you put it into
37:41the oven and you're baking it that way.
37:43It sounds pretty easy.
37:44It's very easy.
37:45It's very easy.
37:46And I, and I say it's, it's, it's, it's a very salty, buttery, it's swimming in butter
37:53and you just slice it and you eat it with jam or, you know, you don't need any butter.
37:58You just slice it jam or pimento cheese and it will offset, you know, the butteriness to
38:03it.
38:03But it is one of my favorite biscuits.
38:05That sounds good.
38:06Um, what's another one?
38:08The, the other ones, obviously the chocolate chip, always have to bring that in because
38:12that was just something, that was my daughter's idea.
38:15Um, and that is probably one of the most popular ones with the kids and it's just still one
38:21of hers.
38:21Um, the Van Luen ice cream company recently opened in Atlanta and they served my ice, my
38:29chocolate chip biscuit in their grand opening with, as an ice cream sundae.
38:33Uh, and it was just like, you know, and she, I took my daughter so she could, when she got
38:38off work and she was like, this is crazy.
38:40People love this biscuit.
38:41So that one really stands out because so much has come out of, uh, I mean, I think when
38:46she said yes to that, she might've been 13, maybe just a, you know, a teenager angst, like
38:52you should mix one too sweet.
38:54Like why are they always so savory?
38:55So, so that one, the other one I think is the sheet pan biscuit, just because I think
39:02things are regional sometimes and, and, and hearing people say, wow, this is such a brilliant
39:09idea.
39:09And, and for me, I'm like, nothing is new.
39:12Right.
39:12Like this was something that I saw, like actually, uh, my great uncle, so this is a man's
39:17side, like do.
39:18Okay.
39:19You haven't given the men a lot of credit.
39:20I know, I know, but that one I do, I do, I'm going to give him, give you credit.
39:24Uh, Brian, but no, so, so he would roll the biscuits out and I, I believe, you know, cause
39:32you, when you're learning how to roll the biscuits, if you put the dough in a sheet pan
39:36like this, you know, with the, the lips on the edge, you won't roll it too thin.
39:41Yeah.
39:41But instead of, uh, take cutting it and then taking them out, he just cut them and just
39:47bake the whole thing in the oven.
39:49Um, so it bakes around, uh, you know, softness all around little, little rounds and you pull
39:55those out and then the rest of the edges are like spoons for gravy or jam.
40:00And it's just, you know, everyone was like, wow, this is such a brilliant idea.
40:04And I just always have to say, I cannot take credit.
40:07And this is your uncle.
40:08What's, what was his name?
40:09It's on my, um, my uncle Bobby on my, uncle Bobby.
40:12Okay.
40:12Yeah.
40:13And I actually have a dish, um, on, um, the, at the restaurant, uh, that's called the
40:19uncle Bobby's and it's a crispy salmon patty.
40:21Cause my granny used to take him, um, um, uh, salmon and grits.
40:26Oh, that's great.
40:27So, but yeah, so like seeing people really cook things a certain way.
40:31I think that one is a really big one.
40:34Um, I have one that is, is obviously the lemon pepper, the lemon pepper.
40:39So I wanted to ask you about the lemon pepper because that is, that's such a, an Atlanta
40:44thing.
40:45It is.
40:46What is it about lemon pepper, uh, that, you know, what's, what's kind of the, I don't
40:52know, the connection that, um, people have in that, in that town and in that region to
40:59lemon pepper.
40:59I could not tell you.
41:01I just know that if you have a wing spot or you have chicken, you better have lemon pepper.
41:06Um, and, and there, there's a, um, you know, there's a lot of little hole in wall places
41:12in Atlanta will pop up selling wings.
41:15And I remember when I first moved there, like K and K soul food, I'm not sure if they're still
41:19open, but they had, um, they were off of a Hollywood road, um, Bankhead highway.
41:25They had a fried chicken.
41:26They would have wings with lemon pepper.
41:28I was just J.R.
41:29Crickets.
41:30Um, they're just like a lot of different areas that just, and I, and I just said, I went home
41:34once and I did like fried chicken, but I wanted to see how it would taste with a biscuit.
41:39And I love pickles.
41:41Um, I'm from North Carolina.
41:42You have to eat pickles.
41:43Yeah.
41:43So, but specifically bread and butter pickles.
41:46Like I can eat a whole jar of those.
41:48Just don't stress out.
41:50So I just remember just having the chicken and like, just, I was like, Oh, this just needs
41:55a little pickle.
41:55So I remember sitting at home, this is years before I had a restaurant or anything.
41:59And I said, well, let me, I got just the seasoning at first.
42:03And I was like, cause you got the lemon pepper wet and the lemon pepper dry.
42:06That's the Atlanta thing.
42:08And I said, well, let me try.
42:10It was just like making my own lemon juice, kind of muddling the, the lemon zest and the
42:15peppercorn, you know, that just really making it more complicated than it needs to be.
42:19Basically.
42:20Um, and I'm like, this was amazing.
42:22And so, you know, once it came to adding more fried chicken dishes to the menu, I remember
42:27telling one of the chefs that was working and I said, Hey, we're going to do a lemon
42:30pepper fried chicken biscuit.
42:32And he's from Atlanta.
42:34I remember him saying, yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
42:37So, and it's just, it is one of my best selling fried chicken biscuits.
42:41I'm not surprised.
42:41You can get it fully loaded.
42:42Especially hearing you describe it.
42:43Yeah.
42:44I think everyone sells it a different, a little differently because sometimes lemon pepper can
42:48be too salty, just depending on how, um, you can get it on the side.
42:53And sometimes people are like, Oh, it's not enough lemon pepper because it's not quite
42:57the, the lemon pepper sauce that you would dip your wings in.
43:01It's very lemony pepper.
43:03It's like, it is lemon zest butter.
43:05And so it's, it's real lemon.
43:07You know what I mean?
43:08Uh, so a lot of times people will get the sprinkle added to it.
43:11And I just, I just do it without too much of the sprinkle to dial it back some, because
43:15it could be a lot of pepper hitting you at once.
43:19Um, but yeah, I just, it just, I should have known it would be great because it's Atlanta,
43:25but I was like, I'm going to figure out how to make this breakfast.
43:28I need to get on the road and go have one of those.
43:30Listen, people will get the chicken and waffles with lemon pepper on the chicken.
43:34Really?
43:35Yes.
43:36Okay.
43:36I don't recommend that.
43:38Whatever floats your boat.
43:40We have a chicken and biscuit breakfast plate, which is a open face biscuit, the chicken
43:45thigh with pork sausage, gravy, eggs, however you want them and breakfast potatoes.
43:49That's one plate.
43:50Yes.
43:51You're going to go home and go take a nap.
43:52We get so many requests to toss the chicken in either hot honey or lemon pepper before putting
43:59the gravy on top.
44:00And at first I was like, you know what?
44:02We'll put the gravy on the side.
44:03We're not going to do it.
44:05But some of them started adding that.
44:07I was like, okay, sure.
44:09Yeah.
44:10Not everyone, but it's just like, sure.
44:13I mean, if that's what you like.
44:15Sometimes you got to give the people what they want.
44:17Exactly.
44:18Exactly.
44:20So, Erica, if your grandmothers could come into the restaurant, if you imagine them walking
44:34in and maybe, you know, Mama Dip in particular, I mean, you know, she never got to see the
44:44Bomb Biscuit Company.
44:45Yeah.
44:46What do you think she would think about, you know, what you're doing there?
44:51You know, I think, I hope she would be proud of me.
44:55Of course she would.
44:56I think, I think that, I think she would come in, I think she would love the pictures
45:01on the wall, like the first thing you see when you come in, because it's all just sort
45:06of telling a story of just African American foodways and just, you know, family, the connection.
45:11She's on the wall.
45:12So I think she'd get a gig of all of that.
45:14But, you know, I definitely feel like she, she would be like, this, this is, you won't
45:22walk in and you can hear the R&B music playing.
45:25She probably would say the music is too loud.
45:28But I feel like she would just sort of hone in on the wall where those photos are.
45:32Because that's kind of the, and it's a booth section, and she would sit in a booth as you
45:37greeted people.
45:38She probably would say you need to be more up front and say hi to people.
45:42But no, I think, I think when she walked in and kind of seeing that, and then the seat
45:48cushions are yellow.
45:49So like, the color of my other granny's house.
45:53So I think my other grandmother would be, you just, just be giggling.
45:56And she's on the wall too.
45:57So I think for the most part, they'd be like, yes, me, it's me, it's because of me.
46:02I think those would definitely be the things they pointed out.
46:06But yeah, I think she would see, especially if you came on a Saturday, I think she'd see
46:10all these people and be like, yes, you're doing, you're doing the right thing, but make
46:13sure you're out here talking to people.
46:15Yeah.
46:15She'd still have a few lessons for you.
46:17She'd definitely, I mean, it wouldn't be grandma without telling you what you could
46:21improve on.
46:22But, but yeah, I think, I think they'd be happy.
46:24I think she'd be proud.
46:26I think she'd love the decor and the people that work for me.
46:30You know, a lot of them are very talkative.
46:35She would probably, my grandma did, would probably point out, because my cousin Victoria
46:39works for me and her mother, her grandmother was my grandma Dick's daughter.
46:44So that was her great grandma.
46:46So Victoria would probably be the first person she saw.
46:49So she'd be like, yes, you're supposed to hire a family.
46:52So now that I think of that, that would probably be the first thing she'd say, which would be
46:57awesome.
46:58So awesome.
47:00That's great.
47:01And Victoria is probably my best server.
47:03Shout out to Victoria, Mr. Listen to this.
47:04And she really does keep the council name.
47:09Like just, she's going to talk to you.
47:11She's going to tell you what's on the menu, what's good on the menu, what you should be
47:14eating, whether she agrees with it or not.
47:17Yeah.
47:17And she can tell you about all the pictures on the wall, even on my mom's side.
47:20Like she, she really, really is good for the brand, as they say, but she, she really
47:25can sort of talk in and talk about the store.
47:27She's very talkative.
47:29So she's, she's got that great.
47:30Like people love to sit in her section.
47:32She turns tables a little slower, but that's fine.
47:35Cause you're going to hear a great story.
47:38She's going to ask you about, you know, what are you doing?
47:40Why are you here?
47:40What are you visiting for?
47:41And people really do love that.
47:43Oh, that's great.
47:44Um, well, last question for you, Erica, what does it mean to you to be Southern?
47:50It means, you know, it means the world to me.
47:52I feel like it has shaped my life.
47:55It shaped the character that I have, the way I interact with people.
47:59Um, you know, I traveled before when I was doing corporate America things, but even now
48:04with the foodways, like even went to Aspen and I'm just like talking to people like, and
48:09they're like, Oh, I love talking to you.
48:10I can tell where you're from.
48:11You know, your accent is great.
48:13It's just, we, we just have a way of weaving the most beautiful tales and, and story.
48:19We can tie anything into anything, you know what I mean?
48:22And I, I just think that's a really Southern skill.
48:25Um, I would never live anywhere else than in the South.
48:29I mean, and yeah, I just, it, it, it means everything to me because it's shaped who I am,
48:36where I am and where I'm going.
48:38Um, so yeah.
48:39Oh, well, I love that.
48:41And, uh, I think you're going great places and congrats on, uh, everything happening
48:47at Bomb Biscuit Company and congrats on the book, um, which got nominated for a James
48:52Beard award and, uh, everything else you have going on.
48:57And thanks for being on Biscuits and Jam.
48:59Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:01This is awesome.
49:11Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:12Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:12Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:13Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:13Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:14Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:15Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:16Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:17Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:18Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:19Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:20Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:21Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:22Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:23Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:24Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:25Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:26Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:27Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:28Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:29Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:30Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:31Thanks for having me, Sid.
49:32Thanks for having me, Sid.
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