- 4 weeks ago
In China's influence operations in the world, the Philippines ranked 7th in 2022, according to the study the China Index. In 2024, the Philippines went down the ranking to number 29.
Analyst Janina Santos from Doublethink Lab, a think tank that studies Foreign Information Manipulation Interference or FIMI, unpacks China's online influence in the world and how this has pervaded our everyday lives affecting media, the academe, and domestic politics.
What does China's influence operations threaten? She explains to Howie Severino in this second installment to a special 3-part series on foreign actors and disinformation.
Analyst Janina Santos from Doublethink Lab, a think tank that studies Foreign Information Manipulation Interference or FIMI, unpacks China's online influence in the world and how this has pervaded our everyday lives affecting media, the academe, and domestic politics.
What does China's influence operations threaten? She explains to Howie Severino in this second installment to a special 3-part series on foreign actors and disinformation.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello, Podmates. My name is Howie Severino, and welcome to the second episode of Online Invasion,
00:07the secret battle for hearts, minds, and headlines.
00:11This time, we'll be talking about China's influence operations
00:14and how they affect democracies like the Philippines.
00:18Our guest today is Janina Santos, an analyst and researcher with DoubleThink Lab,
00:25a think tank that focuses on countering FIMI, foreign information, manipulation, and interfere.
00:43Hello, Janina.
00:45Hello, Sir Howie.
00:46Welcome to our podcast.
00:47Thank you very much for having me here.
00:49So, how did you get involved in this field?
00:51I started as a researcher at the Philippine Navy,
00:56and I contributed to policies and plans related to civil-military operations.
01:02We also looked into information operations, and after eight years,
01:06I decided to leave the Navy, and there was an opening at DoubleThink Lab as an analyst,
01:11and I wanted to continue doing the work that I did, and I applied, and I'm here now.
01:16So, after eight years doing this kind of work with the Navy,
01:20you wanted to continue doing it, no?
01:23Yeah.
01:23What fascinates you about this?
01:26Because it's a threat that at that time wasn't much talked about.
01:31We came from a presidency that did not really allow us to talk much about Chinese influence operations,
01:39when in fact, it's very much entrenched in the Philippines in different domains.
01:43So, I wanted to continue researching that, and I wanted to contribute to maybe having a more sustainable engagement with China,
01:53if not really, and also lessening the risks of such engagements.
01:59Well, so you referred to the presidency back then when you were with the Navy.
02:04I mean, let's be specific.
02:05This is the Duterte administration.
02:07We know the rhetoric of former President Duterte, which was pro-China.
02:12So, what you're saying is, this rhetoric actually was felt in terms of policy and operations down the line.
02:23Yes.
02:23At that level, in research, kind of deep into the recesses of the bureaucracy of the military.
02:31So, you know, that's what you're saying.
02:32You know, that's what you're saying.
02:33You know, that's what you're saying.
02:34You know, that's what you're saying.
02:36You know, that's what you're saying.
02:38And there were actually specific instructions not to dig too deeply?
02:44Or was it implied that you don't have to worry about it?
02:50Or at least keep the engagements with China as a foreign policy issue instead of a security issue.
02:57At hindi lang po sa military.
02:58We also saw Chinese influence everywhere else.
03:01Like, we saw it in media in particular.
03:03We saw it in the academe.
03:05Of course, domestic politics meaning sister city initiatives with mayors and executives.
03:11So, hindi lang po sa national government, kundi sa iba't-ibang aspeto ng buhay natin bilang Pilipino.
03:19Meron talagang PRC influence.
03:20So, you were looking at various sectors, hindi lang sa security establishment.
03:25Yes po.
03:26Because we all know that all of these sectors are actually contributory to how the security environment is working.
03:33And even the defense sector po is working.
03:35So, tinitingnan din po namin yun.
03:37Pagdating sa media, sabi mo nga, Chinese influence infiltrated the media.
03:45In what way?
03:46In several ways po.
03:47For one thing, there was a lot of engagements with the Philippine media.
03:51Particularly the government or state-controlled media.
03:55There was a lot of exchanges of information as well as content.
04:00Content from PRC state media are sometimes published on our state media as well.
04:06So, may content sharing agreements.
04:08There's also the foreign trips for journalists.
04:10And actually, until now, it's still happening.
04:12And also influencers now.
04:14What they do is they take our journalists to China, supposedly to train them and improve their journalistic skills.
04:22But then they are also given tours of several Chinese facilities.
04:27And even in parts of the country that are supposedly rift with human rights violations.
04:33So, pinapakita nila na, ito ang China.
04:34Ito talaga yung nangyayari sa amin.
04:36Ganito ang kultura namin.
04:37Ganito ang teknolohiya namin.
04:39So that when the journalists come back to the Philippines,
04:41they write in such a way that it's already framed to project China as this very progressive country
04:49wherein people are happy and, you know, not really discussing all of the other issues of the country.
04:54So, propagating the good-neighbor narrative, propagating the progressive PRC narrative.
05:02But I have to say, though, yung ganyang klaseng influence operation,
05:08yung inviting journalists to visit your country and show them, you know, the better side of your society,
05:17di lang naman China ang gumagawa niya.
05:19I mean, it's a form of public diplomacy.
05:23I mean, America does it, Europe does it, Japan does it, etc.
05:27China does it, no?
05:29But what I'd like to ask is, was there anything more insidious than that?
05:34Kasi goodwill lang naman.
05:36I mean, you could say on the surface it's goodwill, no?
05:38Pero is there funding, for example, of media to say certain things, no?
05:47I mean, talagang was there, like, you know, lavish wining and dining and benefits for media and influencers,
05:57Filipino influencers in China that would, you know, pressure them to, or even commit them to follow a particular line.
06:08Not just praise China, but maybe follow a particular line pagdating doon sa Philippine-Chinese issues.
06:14Well, definitely, but the trips are all expenses paid.
06:20In terms of the funding for them to say a particular thing, I think in our reports, we don't have that.
06:26It's more of the exposure to all of these things.
06:29But recently, what we noticed is we do have PRC-aligned actors or state-aligned actors,
06:35not just in people and organizations that are presenting themselves as media,
06:41but also presenting themselves as think tanks and academics.
06:44And these are actually the same groups.
06:46So they will have this online radio shows, and of course, they present themselves as media there.
06:52And then they also have think tanks that would regularly publish articles
06:57that are more aligned to the Chinese narrative
07:01and the PRC's stance on several different things that are also affecting the Philippines.
07:07Yung mga ganun po, hindi po natin talaga masasabi na meron silang funding.
07:12But definitely from our observation, which has been at least two years now,
07:17kung ano yung sinasabi ng PRC, yun din yung sinasabi nila.
07:21And they don't deviate in the least, no?
07:24So talagang mimicking and echoing yung official stance.
07:28They don't do their own research and reporting on this?
07:31Well, they say that they do their own research because they present themselves as academics.
07:36Some of them are, I believe, they either have their doctorate degrees
07:40or they are pursuing their doctorate degrees.
07:42So very, very credible if you look at it in a very shallow perspective.
07:47But again, the perspectives have always been for China and pro-China.
07:53So sa amin po, sa pag-aanalyze namin ng mga ganun,
07:57we can then classify them as state-aligned actors.
08:02Hindi man natin ma-prove yung financials,
08:06but we can see that the history and the alignment of the narratives
08:12have been there for the longest time already.
08:15It's one thing to have dissenting opinions,
08:17and then it's another to have, to actually echo the existing narratives.
08:22And we see this kasi kung ano yung sinasabi ng state media ng China
08:27na nanggagaling sa foreign affairs ng China,
08:30Ministry of Foreign Affairs,
08:32yun din ang ine-echo nitong mga organizations and personalities na ito.
08:37At makikita natin na trend talaga siya.
08:40So that's when we start to question,
08:42is this really an analysis,
08:44or is it just an amplification of the PRC's narrative?
08:48And how much of this is orchestrated?
08:53When you say academics,
08:57these are academics associated with universities?
09:02Yes.
09:03Marami po sa kanila na associated with universities in the PRC.
09:07So they are actually in the PRC.
09:09But not in the Philippines?
09:10Not in the Philippines,
09:11but we do have actors in the Philippines
09:13that also present themselves as academics,
09:16such as officers of think tanks.
09:19And they also really produce articles.
09:22And if you're reading it on the surface,
09:24of course it's in English.
09:26It sounds very smart.
09:28And sometimes if it's in Filipino,
09:30it also sounds very smart.
09:32But the analysis has a lot of questionable things in it.
09:36So the credibility behind these analysis
09:38would really add to the pull
09:42of what they're saying and saying.
09:45But again,
09:46that's something that worries me in particular.
09:50Because they are using the academic achievements
09:53to add to the credibility of what they're saying.
09:57But then again,
09:58is it true?
09:59Is it right what they're saying?
10:01Is it going to benefit from what they're saying?
10:03Ordinary people are probably not reading
10:05the analysis of these academics.
10:08It's probably also discerning audiences,
10:11including journalists,
10:13other academics, etc.
10:15How are they to know
10:16that they're parroting a line
10:21that originated in China?
10:24I mean,
10:24is there an analysis
10:26that would compare what they're saying
10:29with what the official channels
10:32or the channels affiliated with China are saying?
10:38I guess that would be partly your role, right?
10:41That would be the role of think tanks
10:42like DoubleThink Lab.
10:44I mean,
10:45to call out or flag,
10:47hey,
10:48this is exactly what China Daily
10:52or Xinhua are saying.
10:54When you say
10:56those are the sources
10:58for what's being propagated here
11:02by these academics
11:05or these pro-China analysts,
11:07are they the primary sources?
11:09It's the official public sources
11:12that are coming from China, right?
11:13Xinhua,
11:14China Daily,
11:15Global Times.
11:17Yeah,
11:17those three, right?
11:18And many more.
11:19So what I personally do is,
11:22so for instance,
11:23in the Philippines,
11:24they do have,
11:25there are flashpoints
11:26for instance,
11:27of course,
11:27the West Philippines
11:28and South China
11:28are the issue.
11:29Recently,
11:31the Taiwan,
11:31because our chief of staff
11:34of the AFP
11:34said that we should be prepared
11:37just in case something happens
11:38with Taiwan,
11:39particularly because
11:40there are so many Filipinos
11:41there.
11:42And there are a few
11:45people doing
11:46with domestic politics.
11:47So what I try to do
11:49is regularly
11:50the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
11:53would have
11:54press conferences.
11:56The press conferences
11:57are recorded
11:58and documented.
11:59They publish it
12:00on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
12:02So with a little bit
12:03of digging,
12:04you can see
12:04what the official stance is
12:05on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
12:07press briefing.
12:08And of course,
12:09all of these
12:09will be amplified
12:10by the state-controlled
12:12platforms
12:13such as Xinhua.
12:15It's the People's Republic of China.
12:16The People's Republic of China, yeah.
12:18Xinhua,
12:19China Daily,
12:20Media Unlocked
12:21is a very interesting
12:23platform.
12:25Is that official?
12:26Is that official
12:27Chinese government?
12:28Yes.
12:29Media Unlocked?
12:30Yes.
12:30So it's state-controlled.
12:32It's an online platform.
12:33Yes,
12:33it's an online platform
12:34featuring two very,
12:35very attractive
12:37young broadcaster journalists
12:40who talk about
12:41international issues
12:42including the West Philippine Sea.
12:44They produce
12:45really short videos
12:46very easy
12:47to consume
12:48less than
12:49less than five minutes
12:50and they amplify
12:53the narratives.
12:54And then there's
12:54Global Times
12:55which is kind of like
12:56they're more
12:57I suppose editorial
12:58platform.
13:00It's mostly opinions.
13:01It's mostly
13:02quote-unquote
13:02analysis on issues.
13:04So
13:04from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs
13:06I look at the global
13:07those
13:07platforms
13:09and then I try to
13:10connect it
13:11if they're themes
13:12is the same
13:13that's being amplified
13:14by certain actors
13:16and that's how I know.
13:18That's how we know
13:19and that's when
13:20we can classify
13:21okay
13:21for say
13:22for the longest time
13:23the particular actor
13:25is really aligned
13:26with the themes
13:26then we say
13:27they're state-aligned.
13:29But it takes
13:30quite a while
13:30to actually brand them
13:32as state-aligned
13:33because we need to
13:34make sure that
13:35okay
13:35how long have they been
13:37parroting
13:38or echoing
13:39the PRC narratives
13:40and for certain
13:43accounts that I monitor
13:44for the longest time
13:45po
13:45yun yung sinasabi nila
13:46simula nung
13:48nahanap ko sila
13:49hanggang ngayon
13:49yun pa rin yung sinasabi nila.
13:51So
13:51let's trace
13:54the
13:54timeline here
13:55kasi
13:56may ebb and flow
13:57yung Chinese influence
13:58sa atin
13:59as your analysis
14:00has pointed out.
14:03Nung panahon
14:04ng Duterte
14:04administration
14:05because
14:06they were
14:09pro-China
14:10you could
14:12you could see
14:13that there was
14:13a strong
14:14influence of China
14:16in various sectors
14:18knowingly.
14:19So
14:20I guess
14:21that was
14:22that was
14:22a high point
14:23of
14:24China
14:25Chinese
14:25influence operations
14:27in the Philippines.
14:29Double
14:29Think Lab
14:30is
14:32one of the
14:33producers
14:33of the
14:34China Index
14:34or you're
14:35the sole
14:36producers
14:36of the
14:36China Index.
14:37We are
14:38the lead.
14:39You're the lead.
14:39Okay.
14:40Which
14:41tracks
14:43I guess
14:44documents
14:45Chinese
14:46influence
14:47operations
14:48around the
14:50world
14:50and in fact
14:51ranks
14:52countries
14:53according to
14:54where
14:55Chinese
14:56influence
14:57is strongest.
14:58Yes.
14:59At one
15:00point
15:01the Philippines
15:02was number
15:03we were
15:04number
15:04seven
15:05and
15:07then
15:07now
15:07we
15:08are
15:08number
15:0829.
15:08Okay.
15:12I'm surprised
15:13we were
15:13even
15:13numbers
15:14we were
15:14number
15:15seven.
15:16We were
15:16that low
15:17considering
15:17how
15:18you know
15:19our
15:19president
15:20was pro-China
15:21and he
15:23had a lot
15:23of followers
15:24who were
15:25influenced
15:25by China
15:26who were
15:27actually
15:27repeating
15:28the
15:29Chinese
15:30line.
15:31So
15:32who
15:32are the
15:32one
15:32to
15:32six?
15:33I mean
15:33do you
15:34have this
15:34off the
15:34top of your
15:35head?
15:35Sorry to
15:35put you
15:35on the
15:35spot.
15:36But
15:36who
15:37would
15:38who
15:39which
15:40country
15:40actually
15:41was
15:41influenced
15:42more by
15:42China
15:43than the
15:43Philippines
15:43during
15:44this
15:44time?
15:44Like
15:45right
15:45now
15:45the
15:45top
15:46ones
15:46are
15:47Cambodia
15:47and
15:48Pakistan
15:48which
15:48are
15:48very
15:49interesting
15:49countries.
15:50Okay.
15:50Of
15:51course
15:52China
15:52would
15:53exert
15:53its
15:53influence
15:54to
15:54have
15:55local
15:56impact
15:56but
15:57if
15:57you
15:57look
15:58at
15:58it
15:58there's
15:58also
15:58a
15:58regional
15:59impact
15:59particularly
16:00Cambodia.
16:01Right
16:02now
16:02one of
16:02the
16:03things
16:03that
16:03are
16:03being
16:03parroted
16:04is
16:05ASEAN
16:06that
16:07the
16:08Philippines
16:08have
16:08been out
16:09in ASEAN
16:09because
16:10we're
16:10very
16:10belligerent
16:11and so
16:13on and
16:13so
16:13forth
16:13and
16:13the
16:14ASEAN
16:14stands
16:15for
16:15peace
16:15and
16:16we're
16:16not
16:16being
16:16very
16:16peaceful
16:17and
16:19the
16:19influence
16:20of
16:20China
16:20on
16:21Cambodia
16:21is
16:22very
16:22important
16:22because
16:23ASEAN
16:23works
16:24as a
16:24consensus
16:24organization.
16:26So
16:26if
16:27there's
16:27anything
16:27that we
16:28want to
16:28push
16:30for
16:30if
16:31even
16:31one
16:31country
16:31says
16:32no
16:32then
16:32it's
16:32gone.
16:34The
16:34China
16:34index
16:35did
16:35not
16:35include
16:36Laos
16:36which
16:36is
16:37another
16:37country
16:37that
16:37has
16:38a
16:38lot
16:38of
16:38PRC
16:39influence
16:40but
16:41that's
16:42another
16:42country
16:43that has
16:44influence
16:44in the
16:45ASEAN.
16:45So
16:46right
16:46now
16:46it's
16:47becoming
16:47very
16:47difficult
16:48to
16:48use
16:48the
16:48ASEAN
16:49as
16:49a
16:49mechanism
16:49for
16:50us
16:50to
16:50advance
16:52our
16:52interest
16:53because
16:53China
16:54has
16:54a
16:55lot
16:55of
16:55influence
16:55on
16:55those
16:55countries.
16:57So
16:57again
16:58the
16:58purpose
16:59of
16:59the
16:59PRC
17:00is
17:00to
17:00have
17:00local
17:01impact
17:02within
17:02the
17:03country
17:03within
17:03the
17:03policies
17:04of
17:04the
17:04country
17:04but
17:05then
17:05because
17:06of
17:06this
17:06high
17:06influence
17:07it's
17:07starting
17:09to have
17:09a
17:09regional
17:10impact.
17:11Similar
17:11din po
17:11sa
17:12Pakistan.
17:13So
17:13mataas
17:13ang
17:13influence
17:14ng
17:14China
17:15sa
17:15Pakistan
17:15they
17:16have
17:17a
17:17very
17:17close
17:18relationship
17:18Pakistan
17:20military
17:20power
17:21is
17:21almost
17:22dependent
17:22on
17:22China.
17:23In
17:23fact
17:23in
17:23the
17:24latest
17:24India-Pakistan
17:25conflict
17:25maraming
17:26yung
17:27mga
17:28gamit
17:28ng
17:28China
17:29military
17:29aid
17:31sa Pakistan
17:32before
17:32was
17:33instrumental
17:33in
17:34that
17:34conflict.
17:35and
17:36it's
17:37important
17:38for
17:38them
17:38to
17:38keep
17:39Pakistan
17:39as
17:39a
17:40strong
17:40partner
17:40because
17:41they
17:41have
17:42a
17:42common
17:42rival
17:43which
17:43is
17:43India.
17:45So
17:45ganun
17:45po yung
17:46kalakaran
17:47nila.
17:48And
17:48when they
17:49influence
17:49a country
17:50they
17:50don't
17:50just
17:50influence
17:51it
17:51in
17:51one
17:52domain.
17:52So
17:52for
17:52instance
17:53kanina
17:54po
17:54napag-usapan
17:54natin
17:55yung
17:55media
17:56but
17:57they
17:57also
17:57have
17:58influence
17:58when
17:58it
17:58comes
17:58to
17:59academe
17:59military
18:00law
18:01enforcement
18:02economy
18:03is
18:04a
18:04very
18:04big
18:04thing
18:04especially
18:05with
18:05their
18:05belt
18:06and
18:06road
18:06initiatives
18:07in
18:07law
18:07enforcement
18:08during
18:08the
18:09time
18:10of
18:10the
18:10former
18:10president
18:11our
18:12police
18:12received
18:12a lot
18:13of
18:13aid
18:13from
18:13the
18:14PRC
18:14as
18:14well
18:14and
18:15of
18:16course
18:16technology
18:16very
18:18big
18:19investments
18:19of
18:19China
18:20in
18:20technology
18:20and
18:21all
18:21of
18:21those
18:22are
18:22not
18:23something
18:23we
18:24won't
18:24call
18:25them
18:25sharp
18:25power
18:25which
18:26is
18:26coercive
18:26they're
18:26soft
18:27power
18:27but
18:28if
18:28you
18:28pile
18:29them
18:29on
18:29top
18:29of
18:29each
18:29other
18:30it
18:30actually
18:30creates
18:31a
18:31stronger
18:32influence
18:33on
18:33the
18:33countries
18:33not
18:34just
18:34in
18:35government
18:35but
18:36in
18:36the
18:36people
18:37then
18:37in
18:37society
18:38so
18:38we
18:39have
18:39dropped
18:40in
18:40the
18:40rankings
18:41from
18:41number
18:427
18:42in
18:43terms
18:43of
18:43the
18:43most
18:44influenced
18:45by
18:46China
18:46we're
18:46now
18:4629th
18:48but
18:48still
18:50we're
18:51in
18:51the
18:51top
18:51third
18:52in
18:52terms
18:52of
18:53Chinese
18:53influence
18:55what
18:55caused
18:55this
18:56drop
18:56well
18:57we
18:57can
18:58say
18:58that
18:58the
18:59cost
18:59of
18:59drop
18:59is
19:00actually
19:00the
19:00pivoting
19:01of
19:01the
19:02current
19:02government
19:02we
19:03know
19:03that
19:04during
19:04the
19:04former
19:04President
19:05Duterte
19:05time
19:06our
19:06pivot
19:06was
19:07away
19:07from
19:07the
19:07US
19:07towards
19:08China
19:08and
19:09other
19:10non-traditional
19:11partners
19:11because
19:12we wanted
19:12to
19:13supposedly
19:13maintain
19:14independent
19:14foreign
19:14policy
19:15but
19:16with
19:16the
19:17BBM
19:17administration
19:18what
19:18he
19:18did
19:18was
19:18to
19:19actually
19:19try
19:19to
19:19balance
19:20the
19:21relationship
19:22with
19:22China
19:23by
19:24pivoting
19:24to
19:24the
19:24United
19:25States
19:25for
19:25our
19:26security
19:26requirements
19:27for
19:27our
19:28security
19:28needs
19:29maintaining
19:29economic
19:30engagements
19:31with the
19:32PRC
19:32and
19:33the
19:33major
19:34shift
19:34was
19:35a
19:36big
19:37kind of
19:38like
19:38it degraded
19:40a lot
19:40of the
19:40Chinese
19:40influence
19:41and
19:42then
19:42add
19:42to
19:42that
19:43we
19:43have
19:44a
19:44transparency
19:45initiative
19:45in the
19:46West
19:46Philippine
19:46Sea
19:46so
19:47because
19:48of
19:48that
19:48transparency
19:49initiative
19:49the
19:49skepticism
19:50of
19:51Filipinos
19:51towards
19:52the
19:52PRC
19:52because
19:53we
19:53really
19:53see
19:54what
19:54they're
19:54doing
19:54with
19:55the
19:55bullying
19:55of
19:56not
19:56just
19:56our
19:56uniform
19:56personnel
19:57but
19:57of
19:58the
19:58ordinary
19:58fisher
19:59folks
20:00there
20:00so
20:00there's
20:01a lot of
20:01effect
20:03on our
20:04pivot
20:04and
20:05our
20:05government
20:06hedge
20:06or balance
20:07in our
20:08engagement
20:09with the
20:10PRC
20:10as well
20:11as the
20:11US
20:11and right
20:13now
20:13with the
20:14move to
20:15create strategic
20:16partnerships
20:17with other
20:17countries
20:18in terms
20:18of defense
20:19it further
20:20limits
20:20I think
20:20it further
20:21limits
20:22the
20:22impact
20:23of
20:23China
20:23on
20:24the
20:24Philippines
20:24So
20:25I
20:25want
20:26to
20:26ask
20:26you
20:26about
20:26this
20:26transparency
20:28initiative
20:28the specifics
20:30of this
20:31Duterte
20:34administration
20:35media
20:36was rarely
20:38allowed
20:39to
20:39accompany
20:41the
20:42Navy
20:42or
20:43the
20:43Coast Guard
20:44or whatever
20:45military presence
20:46there was
20:47in the
20:47West
20:47Philippine
20:47Sea
20:47to see
20:48what
20:48was
20:48going
20:48on
20:49Under
20:50the
20:51Marcos
20:51administration
20:52it's
20:53been
20:54much
20:55looser
20:55the
20:56controls
20:57in fact
20:58they
20:58encourage
20:59journalists
21:01covering
21:02military
21:04patrols
21:05operations
21:07there have
21:08also been
21:09even
21:09civilian
21:10operations
21:10visiting
21:12various
21:13sites
21:13there
21:13and
21:15there have
21:16actually
21:17been
21:18encounters
21:18hostile
21:21interactions
21:22that have
21:22been
21:23captured
21:23by
21:24media
21:25both
21:26international
21:26and
21:27domestic
21:28Philippine
21:28media
21:29and you're
21:29saying
21:30that has
21:30actually
21:31had an
21:31impact
21:32on
21:33ordinary
21:35people
21:35in the
21:36Philippines
21:36just
21:37allowing
21:38them to
21:39see what
21:39was really
21:39going on
21:40before
21:41people didn't
21:42know
21:42because
21:44we
21:44treated
21:44it
21:44more
21:44as
21:45a
21:45foreign
21:46policy
21:46issue
21:47than
21:47a
21:48human
21:49security
21:49issue
21:50so
21:51isa
21:52isa
21:52pa
21:52pinapakita
21:53talaga
21:53ng
21:54transparency
21:55initiative
21:56is
21:57how
21:58the
21:58West
21:59Philippine
21:59sea
21:59issue
22:00and
22:00China's
22:01bullying
22:01is
22:02preventing
22:03us
22:03from
22:03taking
22:04care
22:04of
22:04ordinary
22:05Filipinos
22:06so
22:07for instance
22:07one of
22:08the
22:08more
22:09common
22:09narratives
22:09na
22:10sinasabi
22:11ng
22:11mga
22:12actors
22:12is
22:12bakit
22:13tayo
22:13nagsaspend
22:14ng
22:14sobrang
22:14daming
22:15pera
22:15on
22:15military
22:16build
22:16up
22:16eh
22:17nagugutom
22:18yung
22:18mga
22:18Pilipino
22:18yes
22:22but
22:23they
22:23don't
22:25make
22:26the
22:26effort
22:26to
22:26actually
22:27combine
22:29or
22:29to
22:29actually
22:29bridge
22:30the
22:30gap
22:30of
22:30you
22:31know
22:31if
22:31we
22:31take
22:31care
22:31of
22:31the
22:31West
22:32Philippine
22:32sea
22:32we're
22:33going
22:33to
22:34be
22:34able
22:35to
22:35address
22:35food
22:36security
22:36in
22:36the
22:36Philippines
22:37if
22:38we
22:38take
22:38care
22:38of
22:38our
22:38EEZ
22:39which
22:39is
22:40wherein
22:40we
22:40have
22:40exclusive
22:41rights
22:41we're
22:42going
22:42to
22:42be
22:42able
22:42to
22:43take
22:43care
22:43of
22:43the
22:43food
22:43security
22:44of
22:44the
22:44Philippines
22:44and
22:45this
22:45is
22:45something
22:46that
22:46the
22:46transparency
22:47initiative
22:47is
22:48I
22:48think
22:48slowly
22:49trying
22:49to
22:50communicate
22:51along
22:51with
22:51our
22:52journalists
22:52and
22:52the
22:53media
22:53the
22:53gaps
22:55in
22:55the
22:55narratives
22:56that
22:56often
22:57spread
22:57from
22:58the
22:59other
22:59side
22:59but
23:01that
23:01was
23:01the
23:02point
23:02of
23:02this
23:02recent
23:03documentary
23:03food
23:04delivery
23:05right
23:05a
23:06big
23:07part
23:07of
23:07the
23:08struggle
23:08there
23:08is
23:09over
23:09fisheries
23:10yes
23:10if
23:11China
23:12tries
23:12to
23:12prevent
23:13access
23:14to
23:14these
23:15waters
23:15again
23:16it's
23:16not
23:17just
23:17a
23:17matter
23:17of
23:18military
23:18access
23:18it's
23:19also
23:19fisherfolk
23:20ordinary
23:21Filipino
23:22fishermen
23:23catching
23:24fish
23:25for
23:25food
23:26and
23:27we
23:28know
23:28that
23:28fisherfolk
23:29are
23:30among
23:30the
23:30poorest
23:30sectors
23:31in
23:31the
23:31Philippines
23:31the
23:32narratives
23:33of
23:33this
23:33is
23:34actually
23:34very
23:35concerning
23:35because
23:35they
23:36make
23:36use
23:36of
23:36what
23:37is
23:37truthful
23:37which
23:38is
23:38food
23:39securities
23:39and
23:39issue
23:40in
23:40the
23:40Philippines
23:40and
23:41then
23:41they
23:41weaponize
23:42it
23:42to
23:43attack
23:43something
23:44else
23:45another
23:45priority
23:45which
23:46is
23:46AFP
23:47modernization
23:48or
23:48defense
23:49build-up
23:50if we
23:51return to
23:52FIMI
23:53we can
23:54say that
23:55this is
23:56information
23:57manipulation
23:57wherein
23:58you frame
23:59a certain
24:00truth
24:01and then
24:01you
24:01weaponize
24:02it
24:02and then
24:03you
24:03use
24:03it
24:03to
24:03achieve
24:03your
24:04own
24:04ends
24:04a lot
24:05a lot
24:05of
24:05things
24:06happen
24:06so
24:06in
24:07our
24:07lesson
24:08it's
24:09not
24:09just
24:09fact
24:11checking
24:11or
24:12truthfulness
24:12or
24:13veracity
24:13it's
24:14also
24:14framing
24:14these
24:15narratives
24:16to
24:16weaponize
24:17it
24:17against
24:18us
24:19the
24:19Filipino
24:20people
24:20the
24:20government
24:21or
24:21even
24:22certain
24:22individuals
24:23but
24:25sometimes
24:26what's
24:26being
24:26framed
24:26is
24:27not
24:27even
24:27true
24:27yes
24:28so
24:28for
24:28instance
24:29the
24:29West
24:29Philippine
24:29Sea
24:30the
24:30legitimate
24:31question
24:31is
24:31what
24:32would
24:32be
24:32our
24:32strategy
24:33for
24:33the
24:33West
24:34Philippine
24:34Sea
24:34is
24:34the
24:35government
24:36need
24:37military
24:37buildup
24:38what's
24:38our
24:39strategy
24:39for
24:40diplomacy
24:40all of
24:41those
24:41are
24:41legitimate
24:41questions
24:42but
24:43if
24:43you
24:43frame
24:43it
24:43in
24:43a
24:43certain
24:44way
24:44and
24:44say
24:44for
24:45instance
24:45that
24:45the
24:46defense
24:48sector
24:48is
24:49taking
24:50money
24:50away
24:50from
24:51food
24:51because
24:51they
24:52need
24:52to
24:52buy
24:52submarines
24:52and
24:53they
24:53need
24:53to
24:53buy
24:54armaments
24:55are
24:55we
24:55getting
24:56ready
24:56for
24:56war
24:56why
24:57do
24:57we
24:57want
24:57to
24:57work
24:58something
24:58like
24:58that
24:59framed
24:59in a
24:59certain
25:00way
25:00it
25:00becomes
25:00more
25:01divisive
25:01instead
25:02of
25:02a
25:03point
25:03for
25:03discussion
25:04for
25:05us
25:05to
25:05have
25:05a
25:06collective
25:06agreement
25:07what we
25:07are going
25:08to do
25:08so
25:09legitimate
25:10issues
25:10framed
25:11in such
25:11a way
25:12that
25:12malign
25:13is
25:14something
25:15that we
25:15should
25:15be
25:15aware
25:16of
25:16that's
25:17why
25:17when
25:17we're
25:17dealing
25:18with
25:18information
25:18operations
25:19and
25:19even
25:19FEMI
25:20we
25:20don't
25:21just
25:21deal
25:21with
25:22the
25:22information
25:23how
25:23the
25:23information
25:24is
25:24spread
25:24we
25:25also
25:25have
25:25to
25:25really
25:26look
25:26at
25:26these
25:26legitimate
25:27issues
25:28that
25:28we
25:28also
25:28need
25:29to
25:29find
25:29solutions
25:30for
25:30because
25:31unfortunately
25:32in terms
25:32of
25:33information
25:33operations
25:34and it's
25:34not just
25:35foreign
25:35organizations
25:36that are
25:37doing
25:37this
25:37you
25:38make
25:38use
25:38of
25:38the
25:38legitimate
25:39issue
25:39to
25:40advance
25:42your
25:42own
25:43objectives
25:44even
25:44if it
25:45harms
25:45other
25:46people
25:46and
25:47it's
25:47really
25:47that
25:47the
25:48harm
25:48and
25:49the
25:49weaponization
25:49that we
25:50should
25:50be
25:50looking
25:50into
25:51there
25:52are
25:52really
25:53bitter
25:53divisions
25:54in our
25:55politics
25:55right
25:56now
25:56in
25:57society
25:57and
26:01there
26:03doesn't
26:04seem
26:04to be
26:04much
26:05prospect
26:05for
26:06reconciliation
26:08at least
26:09in the
26:09immediate
26:09term
26:10to what
26:13extent
26:13would you
26:13blame
26:14China
26:14for this
26:15division
26:15I think
26:16just to
26:17a certain
26:17extent
26:17but a
26:18lot
26:18of
26:18the
26:19solution
26:19and a
26:20lot
26:20of
26:20the
26:20work
26:20still
26:20lies
26:21with
26:21us
26:22because
26:22China
26:23is not
26:23going to
26:23stop
26:24influencing
26:24other
26:24countries
26:25to
26:25attain
26:25its
26:25own
26:26strategic
26:26objective
26:27in fact
26:28any
26:28country
26:29would
26:30always
26:30want
26:30you
26:31can't
26:31blame
26:31them
26:31for
26:32advancing
26:32their
26:32own
26:33interest
26:33and
26:34exploiting
26:34other
26:35countries
26:35weaknesses
26:35that
26:36is
26:36just
26:36normal
26:37throughout
26:38history
26:38and
26:39it's
26:40not
26:40just
26:40China
26:40it's
26:41also
26:41a lot
26:41of
26:41other
26:41powers
26:42like
26:42you
26:42mentioned
26:43the
26:43United
26:43States
26:44very
26:44obviously
26:45they
26:45did
26:45that
26:45with
26:46us
26:46during
26:47the
26:47pandemic
26:48in
26:50what
26:50way
26:50there
26:51was
26:51an
26:52operations
26:52by the
26:53Pentagon
26:53by the
26:55United
26:55States
26:55they launched
26:57an
26:57operation
26:59against
26:59Sinovac
26:59because
27:00if we
27:00will
27:00remember
27:01Sinovac
27:02was the
27:02first
27:02vaccine
27:03to be
27:03developed
27:04and
27:04everybody
27:05was
27:06already
27:06clamoring
27:07for the
27:07vaccine
27:07but
27:08what
27:08they
27:09did
27:09was to
27:09say
27:09was to
27:10question
27:10Sinovac
27:11efficacy
27:12and
27:13at that
27:14time
27:14vaccine
27:15hesitancy
27:16in the
27:16Philippines
27:17because
27:17of
27:17Dengvaxia
27:18so
27:18people
27:18were
27:19like
27:19I
27:19don't
27:19want
27:19to
27:19take
27:20Sinovac
27:20because
27:20that's
27:21created
27:22by
27:22China
27:22when
27:24in fact
27:24Sinovac
27:25was
27:25actually
27:25effective
27:26so
27:27they
27:27did
27:27that
27:28to
27:28hit
27:29China
27:29where
27:29it
27:30hurts
27:30because
27:30at that
27:30time
27:31they
27:31were
27:31doing
27:31vaccine
27:32diplomacy
27:32wherein
27:33they
27:33were
27:34helping
27:34other
27:34countries
27:35address
27:36their
27:36COVID-19
27:36issues
27:37so
27:38that
27:38they
27:38can
27:38advance
27:39their
27:39own
27:39international
27:39reputation
27:40in
27:41in
27:41order
27:41in order
27:41to
27:41stop
27:42that
27:42Pentagon
27:43did
27:44an
27:44information
27:45operations
27:45campaign
27:45against
27:46Sinovac
27:47that
27:47in and
27:47of
27:47itself
27:48is
27:48very
27:48detrimental
27:49to
27:49the
27:49Philippines
27:49because
27:50there were
27:50many
27:50died
27:51and
27:51many
27:51sick
27:52our
27:52economic
27:54recovery
27:56was
27:56very slow
27:57because
27:58there was
27:58a lot
27:59of
27:59vaccine
27:59hesitancy
28:00we
28:00couldn't
28:01really
28:01go
28:02full
28:02blast
28:02with
28:02our
28:02economic
28:03recovery
28:04and
28:04we
28:04had
28:04the
28:04longest
28:04school
28:05shutdowns
28:06all
28:07those
28:07things
28:07are
28:07very
28:08real
28:08harms
28:08from
28:09the
28:09information
28:09operations
28:10of the
28:10United
28:10States
28:11so
28:11again
28:11it's
28:12not
28:12just
28:12China
28:12that
28:13we
28:13need
28:13to
28:14look
28:14out
28:14for
28:14it's
28:14also
28:15all
28:15of
28:15these
28:15other
28:15actors
28:16that's
28:17why
28:17when
28:17we
28:17talk
28:17about
28:18FIMI
28:18actually
28:19we're
28:20not
28:20just
28:20limited
28:21to
28:21narratives
28:22and
28:23truth
28:23and
28:24veracity
28:24we
28:25also
28:25ask
28:26ourselves
28:26what's
28:27the
28:27intention
28:32behind
28:32this
28:33information
28:34going
28:35around
28:36the
28:36web
28:36what's
28:37the
28:37objective
28:38we
28:39ask
28:39ourselves
28:39that
28:40and
28:40then
28:40we
28:40ask
28:40ourselves
28:41is
28:41it
28:41manipulative
28:42is
28:42it
28:43manipulating
28:43me
28:43into
28:44believing
28:44a
28:44certain
28:44something
28:45or
28:45manipulating
28:46me
28:46to
28:46act
28:46a
28:46certain
28:47way
28:47is
28:48it
28:49using
28:49for
28:49instance
28:49generative
28:50AI
28:51to
28:51produce
28:52a
28:52video
28:52and
28:52then
28:53pretend
28:53that
28:53this
28:53video
28:54is
28:54of
28:54a
28:54real
28:54person
28:55may
28:56ganun
28:56po
28:56ba
28:56and
28:57then
28:57it's
28:57coordinated
28:58tinitingnan
28:59po
28:59namin
28:59for
28:59instance
29:00na
29:00meron
29:01bang
29:01ito
29:02yung
29:02narrative
29:03na
29:03kumakalat
29:03at
29:03ang
29:04nagpapakalat
29:04na to
29:04ay
29:05say
29:0520
29:06inauthentic
29:06accounts
29:07meron
29:08bang
29:08evidence
29:09that
29:09they
29:09are
29:10coordinating
29:10because
29:11if
29:11they
29:12are
29:12manipulating
29:13you
29:13and
29:13if
29:14they
29:14are
29:14coordinating
29:14to
29:15manipulate
29:16you
29:16then
29:17there's
29:17something
29:17wrong
29:17then
29:18there's
29:18an
29:19objective
29:20that
29:20we
29:20don't
29:20see
29:21and
29:21that
29:21objective
29:22can
29:22be
29:22harmful
29:22to
29:23us
29:23so
29:24more
29:24than
29:24the
29:24narrative
29:25we
29:25also
29:25have
29:25to
29:26look
29:26into
29:26the
29:26behavior
29:26of
29:27how
29:28this
29:28information
29:29is
29:29seeded
29:29and
29:29amplified
29:30how
29:31about
29:31the
29:31American
29:32government
29:32are you
29:33noticing
29:34anything
29:35being
29:36done
29:36by
29:37them
29:37that
29:37would
29:37try
29:38to
29:38manipulate
29:40public
29:41opinion
29:41in the
29:42Philippines
29:42by
29:43spreading
29:44falsehoods
29:46you know
29:46disinformation
29:47I think
29:49there are
29:49allegations
29:50that the
29:50United
29:51States
29:51is also
29:51conducting
29:52an
29:52information
29:53war
29:53against
29:54the
29:54Philippines
29:54but
29:55the
29:55allegations
29:55are
29:55coming
29:56from
29:56the
29:56pro
29:56PRC
29:57academics
29:58you
29:59haven't
29:59found
29:59any
29:59evidence
30:00we
30:00haven't
30:01found
30:01we're
30:01not
30:01saying
30:02we're
30:03saying
30:03we
30:03haven't
30:04found
30:04it
30:05yet
30:05okay
30:05information
30:08laundering
30:08can you
30:09explain
30:09this
30:10of course
30:13we're
30:13more
30:14familiar
30:14with
30:14the
30:14expression
30:16money
30:17laundering
30:17but
30:19then
30:19we've
30:19come
30:19across
30:20information
30:20laundering
30:21you're
30:23familiar
30:23with
30:23that
30:24so
30:24this
30:25was
30:26actually
30:26done
30:27by
30:27there
30:28was
30:28a
30:28recent
30:28operations
30:29by
30:30the
30:30PRC
30:31what
30:31they
30:32did
30:32was
30:32they
30:33have
30:34information
30:34coming
30:35from
30:35CGTN
30:36which is
30:36a
30:36state
30:36media
30:37so
30:38of course
30:38if
30:38you're
30:39familiar
30:39with
30:39CGTN
30:40we know
30:41that there
30:41is a
30:41bias
30:42this particular
30:43article
30:43or
30:43information
30:44that
30:44they
30:45did
30:46was
30:46to
30:46create
30:46several
30:48fake
30:49websites
30:49and
30:50accounts
30:50information
30:52so
30:53in that
30:54way
30:54they
30:54tried
30:54to
30:55hide
30:55the
30:55fact
30:55that
30:56the
30:56material
30:56originated
30:57from
30:58a
30:58state
30:58media
30:58once
30:59it
30:59was
30:59released
31:00to
31:00the
31:00public
31:00there
31:01wasn't
31:02a lot
31:02of
31:02engagement
31:03but
31:03the
31:03fact
31:04that
31:04it
31:04did
31:04not
31:04come
31:05from
31:06CGTN
31:07somewhat
31:08cleared
31:10up
31:10the
31:10information
31:11and
31:11skepticism
31:14in terms
31:14of the
31:15biases
31:15so
31:16would you
31:16recommend
31:17like
31:18special
31:20units
31:21within
31:22news
31:23and media
31:24organizations
31:24that would
31:25be
31:25focused
31:26on
31:26foreign
31:28information
31:29manipulation
31:29should
31:30this
31:30be
31:30like
31:30a
31:31full-time
31:31endeavor
31:32by
31:32news
31:33organizations
31:34if
31:35there's
31:35capacity
31:35I
31:36think
31:36it
31:36should
31:36be
31:37a
31:37priority
31:37of
31:37the
31:38media
31:38especially
31:40right now
31:41now
31:41you're
31:41on the
31:42front
31:43lines
31:43but
31:44at
31:44the
31:44same
31:44time
31:45I
31:46also
31:46believe
31:46that
31:46the
31:47media
31:47should
31:47not
31:47be
31:48fighting
31:48this
31:48battle
31:49alone
31:49one
31:50of
31:50the
31:50things
31:50that
31:50we
31:51learned
31:51in
31:51Taiwan
31:52is
31:52multi-sector
31:54multi-sector
31:56participation
31:57whole of
31:58nation
31:58approach
31:58is
31:59really
31:59very
31:59important
32:00because
32:00it's
32:01not
32:01just
32:01targeting
32:01our
32:02information
32:02environment
32:03it's
32:03targeting
32:03our
32:04way of
32:05life
32:05our
32:06society
32:06our
32:06security
32:07that's
32:08a big
32:08problem
32:09so
32:09the
32:10media
32:10should
32:13also
32:13be
32:13getting
32:13support
32:14from
32:14the
32:14government
32:15civil
32:15society
32:16organizations
32:16and
32:18other
32:18sectors
32:18that are
32:19very much
32:20involved
32:21and have
32:21a stake
32:22on
32:22the
32:23importance
32:23of
32:23our
32:23information
32:24environment
32:24again
32:26that's
32:26something
32:26that was
32:27already
32:27studied
32:27in
32:28Taiwan
32:28they're
32:28trying
32:28to
32:29improve
32:29that
32:30and
32:30in
32:30the
32:30Philippines
32:30that's
32:31also
32:31something
32:31that
32:31we're
32:32trying
32:32to
32:33do
32:33are we
32:34winning
32:34or losing
32:35the
32:35information
32:36war
32:36that is
32:37a very
32:37difficult
32:37question
32:38to answer
32:39I guess
32:41I'll answer
32:42it in
32:42context
32:42usually
32:44there's
32:44the
32:45objective
32:46of the
32:46information
32:46operations
32:48and
32:49sometimes
32:50we win
32:52it
32:52partially
32:52they win
32:53it
32:53partially
32:53sometimes
32:54they don't
32:55for instance
32:55again
32:55in Taiwan
32:56they won
32:58the
32:58presidential
32:58elections
32:59in terms
32:59of the
33:00presidency
33:00and the
33:00vice
33:01presidency
33:01but it
33:02was
33:02kind
33:03of
33:03when you
33:06say
33:06they won
33:07who's
33:07they
33:08they would
33:09be the
33:10Taiwanese
33:10people
33:11they won
33:12in terms
33:12of getting
33:13the DPP
33:13for the
33:14presidency
33:15and the
33:15vice
33:15presidency
33:16thus
33:17ensuring
33:17the pro-Taiwan
33:18political party
33:19versus pro-China
33:20yes
33:21but when it
33:22comes to
33:22the legislative
33:23you won
33:23it's a
33:24balance
33:25so that's
33:26kind of
33:27a partial
33:28win
33:29but at
33:29the same
33:30time
33:30I think
33:31that we
33:31should look
33:31at the
33:32impact
33:32of
33:32information
33:33operations
33:33through
33:34the lens
33:34of
33:34winning
33:34hearts
33:35and
33:35minds
33:35in the
33:36Philippines
33:36what is
33:38the
33:38effect
33:38of
33:38disinformation
33:39and
33:39information
33:40operations
33:40we talked
33:42about
33:42gaps
33:42between
33:43people
33:43we talked
33:44about
33:44hate
33:44we talked
33:45about
33:46not having
33:47a common
33:47thing to
33:50stand on
33:50and to
33:51have
33:51discussions
33:52that are
33:53actually
33:53productive
33:54instead of
33:54hateful
33:55and hurtful
33:55are
33:56these
33:57disinformation
33:57narratives
33:58and operations
33:59creating more
34:00gap and
34:00exacerbating the
34:01hate and
34:02hurt between
34:02people
34:02so I
34:04don't have
34:05the answer
34:05for that
34:06but I
34:06think that
34:07we should
34:07look at
34:07the impact
34:08of these
34:09activities
34:10through that
34:11lens as
34:11well
34:12I guess
34:13in the
34:14Philippines
34:14there
34:14would be
34:15the war
34:16would be
34:18waged
34:19through
34:20proxies
34:21the Dutertes
34:23we know
34:24I mean
34:24everyone
34:25knows
34:25they're
34:26pro-China
34:26so China
34:27would be
34:27supporting
34:28a Duterte
34:31in the
34:32next election
34:33and then
34:34I guess
34:36whoever
34:37she will
34:38be facing
34:38will be
34:39I guess
34:40would
34:40presumably
34:42be
34:42anti-China
34:43whom
34:46maybe
34:47of the
34:47Americans
34:47would be
34:48more
34:48supportive
34:49of
34:49so
34:50magiging ganon
34:51yung labanan
34:51ang sinasabi mo
34:53ganon
34:54that's how
34:55they will
34:56influence
34:56politics
34:57through
34:58information
34:59through resources
35:00through
35:00rhetoric
35:02and
35:03all of that
35:03so
35:04anong pinakasusi
35:06dito?
35:08again another
35:09difficult
35:09question
35:10um
35:11babalikan ko
35:13po yung
35:13manifesto
35:15nung isa
35:15kong
35:15organization
35:16na nagsasabi
35:17na
35:17at the end
35:18of the day
35:19kailangan
35:19matandaan
35:21natin
35:21yung
35:22pakikipagkapwa
35:23ah
35:24pakikipagkapwa
35:26kasi
35:26kailangan
35:27tingnan natin
35:27ang isa't isa
35:28bilang tao
35:29at bilang
35:29kapwang
35:29Pilipino
35:30and
35:31if we
35:32look at
35:32each other
35:32that way
35:33if we
35:33shift
35:34our
35:34our
35:35lens
35:36to
35:36pakikipagkapwa
35:38instead of
35:38looking at
35:39each other
35:40as adversaries
35:41then maybe
35:41we can have
35:42a better
35:42conversation
35:43about things
35:44and lessen
35:44the gap
35:45between
35:45people
35:45and it's
35:46by lessening
35:47that gap
35:48that we
35:48also
35:48create
35:49more
35:49resilience
35:50to
35:50information
35:51manipulation
35:51and
35:53influence
35:53operations
35:54it's a
35:55very difficult
35:56non-technical
35:57very ambiguous
35:58answer
35:58but
35:59at the end
36:00of the day
36:00it's that
36:01kind of
36:01shift
36:01that we
36:02need
36:02that
36:02kind
36:02of
36:03radical
36:03shift
36:03that we
36:04need
36:04more than
36:05say
36:05stakeholder
36:06engagement
36:06or digital
36:07media
36:07literacy
36:08and all
36:09of those
36:09other buzzwords
36:10that you
36:11know normally
36:11an analyst
36:12like me
36:12would say
36:13it's really
36:14going back
36:14to pakikipagkapwa
36:15to looking
36:17at each other
36:17and seeing
36:18each other
36:19as kapwa
36:20instead of
36:20kalaban
36:21thank you
36:23Janina
36:23that's a
36:24wise note
36:24to end
36:25on
36:25and that
36:26wraps up
36:27our second
36:27episode
36:28of this
36:29podcast
36:29series
36:30online
36:30invasion
36:31the secret
36:32battle
36:32for hearts
36:33minds
36:33and headlines
36:34stay tuned
36:35for our
36:35third
36:36and final
36:37episode
36:37thank you
36:39podmates
36:39for listening
36:40and watching
36:40until the
36:41very end
36:41of this
36:42podcast
36:42Alam nyo na
36:43nakakatalino
36:44ang mahabang
36:45attention span
36:46don't forget
36:47to like
36:48and subscribe
36:48mabuhay
36:49kayo
36:50at
36:50ingat lagi
36:51you
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