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Dragons' Den (CA) Season 20 Episode 6
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FunTranscript
00:00Tonight...
00:04Are we having a good time so far?
00:06That's what I want to hear.
00:08We over there next?
00:10No. No, no, no.
00:12Property brother Drew Scott is back.
00:14She looks pretty good. Nailed it.
00:16Well done, Arlene.
00:18Look at those handsome people.
00:20We have all the relationships with the retailers.
00:22It is stronger than what Arlene can offer.
00:24I think you're underestimating what we can do.
00:26Which I can do. I know what you can do.
00:28It's not underestimating you.
00:30Kind of you are.
00:32You have put in a lot of blood, sweat and tears
00:34into this business. Of course.
00:36I don't want to cry. I swear to God.
00:38I said I wasn't going to cry.
00:40You have passion in your business. You're emotional about it.
00:42And those are the people that get deals
00:44when they come into the den.
00:58First up, a team of brothers from BC.
01:10We have basically everything on the line.
01:12Bootstrapping your business as an entrepreneur is hard.
01:14And you only have so much capital.
01:16And when that runway gets tight,
01:18that's when things get super stressful.
01:20And now for their biggest stress test yet.
01:24Let's see if the foundation they've built
01:26can withstand the pressure of the den.
01:30Hello Dragons. I'm Randy from Supernatural,
01:32Delta, BC.
01:34And this is my brother Kevin.
01:35Hi Dragons.
01:36Today we're here seeking $150,000
01:38for 5% equity in our business,
01:40matte concrete.
01:41Concrete can be a stunning addition to any build,
01:43but it is expensive.
01:45It's difficult to install.
01:46And it is always labor and carbon intensive.
01:49But what if I told you we've cracked the code
01:51on making concrete as thin as a business card?
01:55Matt is a Canadian prefab panel.
01:58We are faster, lighter,
02:01and less expensive than other concrete options.
02:03So Dragons,
02:04I'd like to invite Drew and Arlene down to meet Matt.
02:07Okay.
02:08Who's Matt?
02:09Come on.
02:10Matt?
02:11Matt.
02:12That's the concrete.
02:13Arlene was asking, is Matt single?
02:14I did not ask if Matt was single.
02:15It's a concrete, Arlene.
02:17Not a man.
02:18Matt concrete comes in three different panel sizes,
02:22which sell for $25 to $30 per square foot,
02:25which they say is about half the price
02:28of a traditional concrete installation.
02:30Spread out the bottom.
02:31Look at that.
02:32It's very light.
02:33Let's put it up.
02:34It is light.
02:35Oh wow.
02:36That is pretty light.
02:37There you go.
02:38Kevin and Randy say the panels are designed
02:40for DIY projects and don't require any special tools.
02:44Good job, Arlene.
02:45Don't point at me.
02:46Ah!
02:47A mantle on here.
02:48Take cover, everybody.
02:49Get Arlene to do the gun again.
02:51What is Arlene doing with that nail gun?
02:53Put your finger.
02:54Guys, she's working nine to five.
02:57Trying to nail her.
02:59She looks pretty good.
03:01Nailed it.
03:02Well done, Arlene.
03:03Matt concrete can be cut with a standard saw
03:05and installed with nails or glue.
03:07It's a little crooked.
03:08Do we have a level or a ball or something?
03:10I think it needs something else.
03:12You want to crack that?
03:13How about we do that?
03:14Oh!
03:15Oh my goodness.
03:16There you go.
03:17Look at those handsome people.
03:18Family photo.
03:19Hold on a second.
03:20Just for Arlene.
03:22Perfect.
03:23I was not holding it up.
03:26I mean, that was easy for install.
03:30It was.
03:31It's a good looking picture of us.
03:32I've got questions.
03:33Well, we've got answers.
03:35It was very cool that you could nail gun into concrete.
03:38I know.
03:39Explain that.
03:40We've defined a new white space in concrete
03:42to provide you a sheet of plywood
03:44that has the aesthetics of concrete on it.
03:46So it's not really concrete.
03:47It is real concrete.
03:48It's 100% concrete.
03:49So it's plywood with a thin strip of concrete.
03:51Yes, as thin as a 16th of an inch
03:53to a 32nd of an inch.
03:54No one's done concrete on plywood anywhere.
03:57It's totally unique.
03:58So did you guys get fed up with concrete?
04:01Like, what made you think?
04:0230 plus years in the construction industry.
04:04The older you get, just like all of us,
04:06things get heavier.
04:07I thought, there's got to be a better way.
04:09And Drew, you've built a lot of houses here.
04:11Like, how unique is this?
04:13I haven't seen this specifically, like you said,
04:15on a plywood.
04:16But I like the product because I'm literally
04:18installing this every other day on a house.
04:20Correct.
04:21And I know it can get messy.
04:22This speeds up my timeline.
04:23We can get through more projects.
04:25What were your sales last year?
04:27$500,000.
04:28The last two years, basically from a net profit perspective,
04:31ran at a loss in the order of $25,000 a year.
04:35Have you reached out to Home Depot or Lowe's
04:38or any of the big building stores?
04:40We have pending things through trade shows
04:43that are through the bigger markets per se,
04:45but we haven't secured that at this point in time.
04:47Have you got your own manufacturing facility?
04:495,000 square foot facility in Delta BC.
04:51Okay.
04:52How many can you make in a day?
04:53Four by eight sheets, we'd be doing 50 a day.
04:5513,000 is our capacity limit for the year.
04:58Is it manual at all in the factory
05:00or is it all machine processed?
05:02It's majority manual, but there is the possibility
05:04of automation as well.
05:06So you're saying you literally have people in a factory
05:09that are doing...
05:10Correct. Wow.
05:11We would need a heck of a lot more than 13,000 output.
05:14Literally, the projects I have on the go right now,
05:16I would use all your 13 and there's no way I'm waiting a year.
05:21What do you say to that?
05:22Can you scale up?
05:24What we need is your help and guidance and knowledge
05:26to help us figure out how to commercialize this properly,
05:29how to build that scale.
05:31We're not going to be able to go past that threshold
05:33in this particular facility.
05:37Randy, how much have you invested in this business?
05:40Thus far, 500,000.
05:43That's a lot of money.
05:45Yeah, being an entrepreneur is always waking up
05:48and, you know, going out there and hitting the road.
05:50But what's 150,000 going to do for you?
05:51Nothing.
05:52Isn't everything on the line right now for you?
05:54Pretty much, yeah.
05:55Can you say that?
05:56Yeah.
05:57It seems like you have this great product,
05:58but nobody knows about you.
06:00Correct.
06:01So how much money have you spent advertising your product?
06:04Other than paid ads on Instagram and social media,
06:07that's all we've done for marketing in that respect.
06:10But why hasn't it caught on if it's so great?
06:13And if it's so creative and inventive?
06:16I think one of the blunt answers is it's a small organization.
06:20Basically, it's three and a half people.
06:23We do not have a dedicated sales resource.
06:25No one's out knocking on those doors.
06:27All it takes is one person to pick up phones
06:29and calling up the property brothers and going,
06:31hey, what do you think?
06:32I think at the end of the day, you know, as an entrepreneur,
06:35it's the hustle.
06:37You know, it breaks my heart watching you guys.
06:40It does, because I don't see the hunger.
06:43It's great to come up with the idea,
06:45but you have to be so passionate about selling that product.
06:48It's contagious to us.
06:50And we go, I want to go into business with these guys
06:53to bring this to the world.
06:55You guys have done none of that.
06:57You have no profits and you have no customers.
07:02So I'm going to be out as a result of that.
07:06We have the fortitude to do this,
07:08but at the same time, as a small business,
07:10you struggle because how many hats do you have to wear?
07:12It's very hard.
07:13And my passion and heart, Wes, it is there.
07:15Don't challenge me on that, please.
07:17We don't know what doorbells to ring.
07:20If somebody opens up that door or points us to that address,
07:23we'll go and do that.
07:24We're not here to build your business for you.
07:26You want us to do the marketing, do the sales,
07:30build you a bigger manufacturing plant.
07:33Like, what have you done other than the invention?
07:36They did not say that.
07:37I've been listening.
07:38They said they need some capital to do that.
07:41We've got a capacity issue,
07:43but we have some competency issues as well.
07:46We don't have the right team.
07:47I think Randy fundamentally is not the leader.
07:49We need somebody else to help Stickel handle us through that.
07:52But Randy is your chief product officer.
07:55He's the innovator.
07:57I like that you admitted you're not the CEO.
07:59For me to become an CEO or to find a CEO,
08:02I'd need more than half your company.
08:04But just think about that fight.
08:07If you want to actually change the arc of this industry,
08:11there's just got to be a lot more fight.
08:13So for that reason, I'm out.
08:14You guys have created an innovative product,
08:18but not a business yet.
08:20And I'm not willing to build the business for you.
08:22I'm out.
08:24I think that it's a great product.
08:26I think that you have better partners at this table.
08:30So I'm going to bow out.
08:37Anybody else?
08:40I've listened to you guys, and I saw the passion.
08:43I also heard the pain that you've been in.
08:45You're going to need more capital,
08:46and you do need help.
08:48I'll make you an offer of $150,000,
08:51but I want 20% equity.
08:53That's my offer, and I would love to work with you.
08:56Okay, thank you.
09:00And then there was one.
09:02I like the product.
09:06And I think something like this could sell very well.
09:08I think there are a lot of things that are maybe not your forte
09:11that you need that help with.
09:12We have all the relationships with the retailers.
09:14We've had over 12,000 products,
09:16let alone the development side of what we do.
09:18It is stronger than what Arlene can offer.
09:20So I would give you $150,000 for 30%.
09:24It's getting spicy.
09:26I really do think that a brand like mine
09:28is something that can really...
09:30It can give you a heck of a lot more
09:31than any money you're looking for.
09:34Can you take a second?
09:35Sure.
09:38She said 20% for $150,000.
09:40Yeah, $150,000 for 20%.
09:42He's in at $30,000.
09:43I think you're underestimating what we can do.
09:45What dragons can do.
09:46I know what you can do.
09:47I'm not underestimating you, but I just...
09:49I know you are.
09:51Whoa, whoa, whoa.
09:52I think you can do great things.
09:54I mean, hey, we'll talk, then you put my face on your product,
09:57and then I'll make a royalty in the back end.
09:59Exactly, then we'll talk.
10:00I'm happy to talk about that.
10:01Yeah.
10:02Let's do that.
10:03Dragons, we very much appreciate your offer
10:05and your expertise.
10:06I think, Drew, we appreciate what you've said to us,
10:12but I think we'll accept Arlene's and move forward with that.
10:15All right.
10:16Thanks so much.
10:17Yeah, awesome.
10:18You're going to be a customer.
10:19There you go, yeah.
10:20We'll talk.
10:21We're going to get his work.
10:22Absolutely.
10:23Yeah.
10:24Thank you very much.
10:26Thank you, everybody.
10:27Appreciate it.
10:28Well done, you guys.
10:29Good stuff.
10:30Property sister over here.
10:31Yeah.
10:32I'm surprised by that.
10:33I was surprised, yeah.
10:34Well, with all respect, Arlene, that's...
10:36That is...
10:37Wow, really?
10:38That's what they were looking for.
10:39It's their business.
10:40It's their business.
10:41It's their business.
10:42The twists and the turns in the den.
10:44The twists and the turns in the den.
10:47Coming up...
10:48So, is this a serving?
10:50We suggest about two to four tablespoons per serving.
10:52I would have ten of these.
10:53That's it.
10:54You could have easily.
10:55Don't do that.
10:56You might be sitting on the toilet for a while, Wes.
10:58I literally ate it all.
10:59Oh, no.
11:12Next up, these entrepreneurs are hoping the Dragons get a good gut feeling about their
11:17fresh take on a probiotic trend.
11:19Hi, Dragons.
11:20My name is Hudson.
11:21And I'm Tim.
11:22And we are the founders of Kefirca, located in Mississauga, Ontario.
11:25We're here today to ask you for $400,000 in exchange for 5% of our business.
11:30Whoa.
11:31That sounds rich.
11:33Is this a magic trick?
11:35So, Kefir Cult is a manufacturer and a brand that produces coconut kefir products.
11:40Our kefir products have more probiotics than supplements.
11:44So, this entire journey started back when I was in university.
11:47I suffered a lot of gut health issues.
11:49And when I spoke to my mom about it, she started making me eat a whole bunch of different things,
11:53like Chinese medicines, herbal remedies, kombucha.
11:57But the one that worked the best was actually kefir.
12:00It got to the point where I was making it every single day.
12:03Whoa.
12:04Our coconut kefir contains over 42 trillion live probiotics per one ounce serving.
12:1142 trillion?
12:12Just coconut milk that's been fermented with the same kefir cultures that Hudson has been growing for the past 10 years.
12:18We would like to try the original first, and then we also have a mango and a guava flavor.
12:23Add a little bit of honey, granola, or berries in the morning.
12:26I like kefir.
12:27So, I'm an easy customer.
12:30Sorry, I might have missed it.
12:31What is kefir?
12:32A kefir is just like yogurt, but it has yeast in it, and it's fermented with the kefir grains.
12:36Okay.
12:37So, it's a bit more powerful, and it has a few more strains than yogurt.
12:40So good for you.
12:41Kefir Cult is available in over 500 health and wellness stores and specialty grocers across Canada and the U.S.
12:49This is tangy.
12:50It needs some honey in there, but it tastes extremely healthy, though.
12:55I love it.
12:56It's delicious.
12:57Thank you so much.
12:58This is a lot of kefir.
12:59This is, like, really, really good.
13:01And what's the benefit of coconut kefir versus regular kefir?
13:05Flavor?
13:06That's a great question.
13:07Regular kefir, it's strong in its own way, but a lot of people these days are lactose intolerant.
13:12And, like, for me, I was lactose intolerant.
13:14So, even though it did improve a lot of, like, health issues.
13:17So, I studied kinesiology in school.
13:19I've always been about the body, healthy food.
13:22My brother always made fun saying, well, if it tastes good, it must be good for you.
13:26Meaning that he always eats junk food and it's not good for you.
13:29This, to me, tastes good and it's good for me.
13:32And that's really the mission of our company.
13:34So, is this a serving?
13:35We suggest about two to four tablespoons per serving.
13:37I would have ten of these.
13:39You could eventually.
13:40Don't do that.
13:41You might be sitting on the toilet for a while, Wes.
13:44But how do you educate people on it?
13:46Because if I see this, we're going to think it's like yogurt, but it's really not.
13:51That's the part that we actually haven't invested a whole ton into as of yet.
13:54Right now, like, we've spent a lot of money and work getting our distribution set up.
14:00Not only here in Canada, but also in the U.S.
14:03I'm going to ask a Michelle question.
14:04So, tell me about unit economics.
14:06Yeah.
14:07So, these small jars have a gross margin of roughly 60 to 65%.
14:12And they retail on shelves at $11.99 up to $14.99.
14:17It's a pretty premium product.
14:19Wow.
14:20How does that compare to your competition price-wise?
14:22We are actually the only coconut kefir products that we've seen.
14:25There are other coconut yogurts that are pretty high in probiotics.
14:29But we're actually very much in line in terms of price point and actually a little bit cheaper.
14:34It's a bit pricey.
14:35I don't know that it's too pricey for those consumers.
14:37I think it's going to be pricey for you, though, in terms of the listing fees.
14:40We actually just launched with Whole Foods in just over 50 of their stores,
14:44but through a forager program where we didn't actually need to pay refill or slotting fees.
14:48Can we get some numbers? What have your sales been?
14:50Our sales last year were $875,000.
14:53And then this year, year to date, we've already hit that.
14:56So, we're projecting to make $2.7 million in top line sales by the end of this year.
15:00Good for you.
15:03I'm listening to you guys, and I'm sitting there going, why are you here?
15:07Yeah, why do you need us?
15:08Like, I don't think you guys are doing incredibly well.
15:10To your point, it's not just money, because we can get loans.
15:13But what we're really looking for is, you know, smart money and folks in the industry,
15:18like all of you, who have experience in how to actually scale up a business like ours
15:24and take us to the next level, right?
15:26I like how you stop of saying folks like you were looking at Arlene,
15:29and then you just pivoted. I love the pivot.
15:31I mean, we did come in with a few particular ragged in mind.
15:36How long are you going to last in your current space, or do you need to expand outside your space?
15:39We are actually in the process of looking right now.
15:41We've actually maxed out our fridges, even though we upgraded that a few months ago.
15:45Good problem to have.
15:46Yeah, yeah, exactly.
15:47But a problem nonetheless.
15:48Yeah.
15:49It costs some money.
15:50Yeah, money, and we also can't stop production.
15:52Right.
15:53We have to find a way to make sure everything is, like, stored properly.
15:55It's a good problem to have, for sure.
15:57So you told us what you're looking for, but you've got a valuation of $8 million, which is rich.
16:03High.
16:04Yeah, rich and high in probiotics.
16:07Are you making money? Are you profitable?
16:09Prior to 2023, we had been operating at a loss, just growing our kind of base of distribution, growing our brand.
16:16In 2024, we made about $90,000, and this year we are actually sitting at around a 20% margin right now.
16:23You're going to make about $500,000, and you're just taking it and putting it back into the business.
16:27That's right.
16:28You know what, for them to be profitable in their last year and this year, at this stage of your business, like, kudos, like, huge kudos.
16:37That is not easy to do in the food space as you're scaling.
16:40Thank you, yeah.
16:41I think you've nailed the brand.
16:42Like, it looks totally international.
16:44It does.
16:45Like, it's got, like, a German kind of item.
16:47It seems scientific.
16:48I love it.
16:49Okay.
16:50Well, all these people are giving you nice compliments.
16:52I'm going to give you an offer.
16:53Oh.
16:54The Gates.
16:55You guys are a great team.
16:57I think it's a great product.
16:58I'm used to eating.
16:59You ate it all.
17:00I literally ate it all.
17:01Oh, no.
17:02I think coming up with a natural, lactose-free, high-probiotic thing is going to sell itself, because
17:09so many people are looking for this in the health-conscious space.
17:12And so, I will give you the 400K for 12%.
17:20You know your stuff.
17:21You know your product.
17:22And you go in the lab, and you invent, and you go out, and you sell it to people.
17:27And that's what I talk about when I talk in a dent about passion.
17:30That's what we've seen here.
17:32But I'm not going to be able to compete with Michelle on valuation, so I'm going to be out.
17:38I think that this is amazing.
17:41It's delicious.
17:42I don't think I can add the value that other dragons can add, so I'm out.
17:48You've nailed the brand.
17:49You've nailed the taste and the flavor.
17:51But I don't know enough about this space, so all the best.
17:56But I'm out.
17:59You've really done all the hard work.
18:02And now it's about creating a really big business, which I absolutely think you guys can.
18:08I can help you scale your manufacturing.
18:09It is what I do day in and day out.
18:12I'm going to offer you $400,000 for 10%.
18:15Okay.
18:21Marlene?
18:22Well, I've never tasted anything like this, ever.
18:25And I've tasted a lot of kafirs.
18:27I know I can help you scale.
18:28I know I can help you in every area of this business.
18:31So I'm going to offer you $400,000 for the same 10%.
18:37No, no, no.
18:38Okay.
18:39Um, can we have a moment to talk in the room?
18:44Yes.
18:45Turn around.
18:46A moment to confer or to kafir.
19:05You guys are confident.
19:06What do you think?
19:09Um, Manjeet and Arlene, would the two of you consider coming in together on this?
19:16I've got a fund that's got $50 million to deploy in this space.
19:19So follow on capital is going to be very important for you.
19:23And I have the playbook on this, you guys.
19:26The answer is no.
19:27Everything, but the answer is no.
19:29And absolutely, I can do all the same.
19:33Okay.
19:36Um, in that case, I think we'd like to accept the offer from Manjeet.
19:41Great!
19:42All right.
19:43Yay, I'm excited.
19:44Oh, good for you guys.
19:45So thrilled.
19:46Good for you.
19:47Thank you so much.
19:48Looking forward to it.
19:49It doesn't work out.
19:50Arlene, 50 million bucks.
19:51Could I get some of that?
19:53We really wanted both of them together.
19:54But I think just on the manufacturing side, I know there's so much that Manjeet has done herself that could really help us scale.
20:07That's kind of what drove our decision.
20:17Here at RushCycle, guys, we offer high energy group classes in spin, yoga, strength, Pilates, expect big sweats, and most importantly, a great workout.
20:28Oh, gosh.
20:29I don't know if I signed up for this.
20:30I'm tired already.
20:31We're really bringing something unique and different to the table.
20:47And time to show these dragons what we're here for and to show them what we can do.
20:51And it means everything to me.
20:53The 20th year of Dragon's Den.
20:55And, man, I've been watching this show for 20 years.
20:57It's making me feel so old.
21:00Now, let's see if this Quebec fitness company can pump up the dragons with their high-impact pitch.
21:07Hey, dragons.
21:08My name is Mitch.
21:10And this is Coach Shaw.
21:12I'm the president of RushCycle Canada.
21:14And today, we're in the den looking for an investment of $250,000 for 15% of our business.
21:21RushCycle is not just a fitness center.
21:24It's a movement.
21:25Here at RushCycle, guys, we offer high energy group classes in spin, yoga, strength, Pilates, and even bar.
21:34All the things I don't do.
21:35Giving you all these options in one studio.
21:38So here's what you can expect coming into our studio.
21:41Expect big sweats.
21:43Yes.
21:44Bigger smiles.
21:45Good vibes.
21:46And most importantly, a great workout.
21:48What?
21:49Oh, gosh.
21:50I'm tired already.
21:51First off, I'm gonna need you all to go get dressed and meet us on the other side.
21:54We're actually ready.
21:55We're getting sweaty.
21:56Let's go.
21:57What will they think of next?
21:58Oh.
21:59There we go.
22:00Spin baby.
22:01Oh.
22:02I don't know if I signed up for this.
22:03Are you ready to feel the rush?
22:05RushCycle offers four specialized fitness classes under one studio roof.
22:10Each class is 45 minutes long and with their unlimited membership option, members can attend
22:15any and as many as they want.
22:17Okay.
22:18Let's go.
22:19Let's go.
22:20All right, Dragons.
22:21Let's put our feet inside of the bands.
22:23So let's bring that resistance to an eight to begin.
22:27All right.
22:28Now.
22:29All right.
22:30We're gonna keep those elbows locked.
22:31Very important.
22:32Facing the ground.
22:33That way your core is engaged.
22:34Now.
22:35One last thing.
22:36DJ.
22:37Spin it.
22:38Spin it.
22:39Let's go.
22:40Let's go DJ.
22:41All right.
22:42Mitch says trainers are also encouraged to create their own programs rather than being
22:46tied to a fixed routine with repetitive scripts.
22:49Question first, everyone.
22:51Are we having a good time so far?
22:53That's what I want to hear.
22:55All right.
22:56We can take a nice sip of water because hydration is so important.
22:59Oh, yes.
23:00That is true.
23:01Is there vodka in here?
23:02Woo!
23:04And one more.
23:06And down we go.
23:08Woo!
23:09Great, great, great job.
23:12We over there next?
23:13Is that what?
23:14No.
23:15No.
23:16Let's talk something.
23:17Awesome.
23:18Let's go.
23:19High five.
23:20High five to everyone.
23:21High five to everyone.
23:22Can we talk business if I'm shaking from the waist down?
23:25In 11 seasons, I've never done a workout on the show.
23:28How do you feel?
23:29Well, we'll see whether I'm cranky or I give you money.
23:33We wanted you to sweat, but most importantly for me, I wanted you to have a good time and
23:38have fun while doing it.
23:39Well, we did that.
23:40Right?
23:41Let me ask you, have you ever been to Vancouver?
23:43Uh, me personally?
23:44No.
23:45So Kitsilano, you would see for blocks and blocks, yoga, pilates, spin bikes, their party
23:53and they're doing it all together.
23:54There's so many of these and they all seem great.
23:57What is different?
23:58The most important is that we're giving all these options in one studio.
24:02If you want to do a yoga class, you've got to go to a yoga studio.
24:05If you want to do a spin class, well, you go to a spin studio.
24:08I understand what you're talking about with mixing up the programs.
24:11Because as somebody who did work with clients, I was a trainer for years.
24:15I understand diversity is important because if people feel it's stale, they're out.
24:18But there are larger facilities that have a gym and they have all those classes within the gym.
24:23Like Good Life Fitness, yeah.
24:24Like Good Life Fitness, yeah.
24:25Yeah, exactly.
24:26Your Good Life's and your 24's.
24:27Good Life has, it's all separate.
24:30Like you have a gym membership.
24:32Ours is all group fitness.
24:34And we have a variety of group fitness classes that we offer.
24:40So the retention of the customer is a lot easier.
24:43And Mitch, how much do I pay a month for this?
24:45It's $149.
24:46I do think that as a value prop for $149, that's not bad.
24:51Because usually to go to a Pilates class is like $50.
24:53Correct.
24:54Per class.
24:55Putting all the expensive classes into one studio makes a lot of sense to me.
24:59So Mitch, this is your business, right?
25:00Yeah.
25:01Yeah, tell us about it.
25:02We started in 2021.
25:05We opened up the first one in Brossard, Quebec.
25:08Now we have two franchises recently in the last year.
25:13And what do I pay for a franchise?
25:15Between $450 to $550 depending on where you're opening.
25:20$450 to $500,000?
25:21Yeah.
25:22That seems pricey, but let me ask the franchise guy.
25:25That would be like five times what a franchise in our business would cost.
25:29Where did the inspiration come to start this?
25:32Why did you pick this space?
25:34Rush Cycle is a company that is in the U.S.
25:38It's a U.S. franchise, which I own the Canadian rights to.
25:41Oh.
25:42Oh, so you are the master franchise for Canada.
25:44I'm the master franchisee in Canada.
25:45That's different.
25:46Yeah.
25:47Tell us these things.
25:48So there's already a system and process and manuals.
25:50That's why $450 in the first year.
25:52And how big are they in the U.S.?
25:53They have 70-something locations.
25:56And how much did you pay for that license?
25:58$250,000 U.S.
26:00$250,000 U.S.?
26:01A year?
26:02No.
26:03But you must get royalty.
26:04Yeah.
26:05They're master franchising royalties.
26:06I'm paying them 2%.
26:07Only for my two studios.
26:09Okay.
26:10That's it?
26:11Everything else you keep?
26:12Everything else I keep.
26:13That's a good deal.
26:14Yeah, I know.
26:15I got a really good deal.
26:16That's why I took it.
26:17Crazy deal.
26:18That's unusual.
26:19That's why I took it.
26:20The reason I'm questioning why they would get into a deal like this by giving you full rights
26:22in Canada is because in the back of my mind, I'm like, they must have something.
26:25There's something we're missing.
26:26Something wrong.
26:27There's something wrong.
26:28Or maybe there's something you're not telling us.
26:30No.
26:31It's not good to be true.
26:32It usually is.
26:33How is this his problem?
26:34It's not real.
26:35I don't want to answer this in a rude way, but what do I care what he gets from?
26:39Yeah.
26:40I agree with you.
26:41They want it to open in Canada.
26:42That was the only thing.
26:43What was preventing them from doing?
26:44They're not making any money.
26:45What's preventing anybody from opening this up?
26:46Yeah.
26:47Like why can't I tomorrow go and open up a gym and put four classes in there?
26:50Like what's stopping me from calling it?
26:52Manjeet cycle.
26:53What?
26:54Yeah.
26:55I have exclusivity for Canada.
26:56Whatever.
26:57But honestly, what is preventing me or anybody else from doing it?
27:02Because we follow a training program.
27:05We follow a coach program.
27:07We follow like...
27:08Rush has no name in Canada.
27:10So you're paying for a brand that nobody knows anyway.
27:13I don't actually understand the value of that franchise for you guys in Canada.
27:17I'd rather buy a couple of 1-800-GOT-JUNK franchises.
27:201-800-GET-FIT.
27:21Hi.
27:22Can you just really quickly tell me how much you guys are making owning this master franchise?
27:27So there's one studio that's doing 850,000.
27:30There's one studio that's doing 600,000.
27:33Can you just give me the totals?
27:35It's um...
27:36It's uh...
27:37Two totals...
27:38Um...
27:39You should have had that number in the back of your mind already before walking through that door.
27:44This is something you need to know, your bottom line, right?
27:49I'm really uncomfortable that you're asking us to invest in a business,
27:54that you're having a hard time defining what the total revenue is and what the total profit is.
27:58And so, um...
28:00Because I'm not confident in your numbers, I'm gonna be out.
28:04I can't see the numbers here at all, no matter how you slice and dice it.
28:08I can't imagine there's enough money to be made.
28:10And bringing franchise partners in at $500,000 a pop, I don't see the numbers.
28:16And so, for that reason, I'm out.
28:18I do agree that that 2% doesn't make a lot of sense for these guys to get 2% on just essentially two franchises.
28:27So, if there's something there that doesn't make sense, I'm out.
28:32For me, I just don't see anything proprietary here. I'm out.
28:37I've been in this space. I've been obsessed with it. It just seems a little disorganized.
28:42There are a lot of unknowns that make me feel uneasy, so I'm out.
28:46You haven't got a really good handle on kind of exactly what you were trying to sell us,
28:50which is really buying into your idea of taking that master franchisee license and expanding it.
28:57And if you'd stayed on that, I think you might have had a better chance at least of having us understand what this is about.
29:03But I'm going to be out. I wish you well.
29:11There is something there that is a value prop that is unique.
29:14But also, he just got the Canadian rights to the franchisee. He should have started with that.
29:18Yeah.
29:19But I don't think what he's offering is new. That's not new.
29:22I think the franchisor rushed into this and clearly didn't even pay attention.
29:26How can you not have a mutual 10-year agreement? I didn't buy that.
29:30If Brian's out, I'm out, man.
29:39I'm Connie Lowe.
29:40And I'm Laura Thompson.
29:41And we're the proud female founders of Three Ships.
29:45Draginson took a chance on us in Season 15.
29:47With just $4,000 in savings, we set out on a mission to change the natural beauty market,
29:53starting by hand-making products in my apartment kitchen.
29:56All of our products are truly safe, truly natural, and 100% plant-derived.
30:01I love your story. I think you've got a great product.
30:04One of the big discussion points in the den was our upcoming partnership with Target.
30:08At the end of this year, it'll be a million-dollar account for us.
30:11Congratulations.
30:13Yeah, it's a big task.
30:14That is a big task.
30:15You are scrappy, and you've figured out a lot in this business already.
30:19We actually got three offers from the dragons in the den.
30:22All right, Jim, we'll take your deal.
30:24Just swooped us all.
30:26High five.
30:27Fair high five.
30:29It was such an incredible experience that we learned so much from.
30:32The night that our episode premiered, the sales and visitors on our website absolutely exploded.
30:37Ani and I had to get on customer service chats as the episode was going live to respond to customer questions.
30:42So it was crazy.
30:43At the same time, it allowed us to land some massive retail partners,
30:47and it was a real turning point within the brand and our ability to scale.
30:52Because of our experience on Dragon's Den, we had the confidence to go out and raise our own pre-seed round.
30:57To date, we've actually raised $6 million overall.
31:00Oh, my God.
31:01When we were in the den, we were shipping everything out of Connie's parents' small basement.
31:09And it was just the two of us doing literally everything.
31:12Now today, five years later, we have an incredible team of 22 people with us.
31:16We have our own 4,000 square foot warehouse shipping 10,000 orders a month.
31:20When we were in the den, we were projecting sales of a million.
31:23But today, we're making 16 to 20 million this year, which is absolutely crazy.
31:28It's been amazing to watch each other as founders and to win so many incredible accolades along the way.
31:33Including one of the Golden Males fastest growing companies in Canada.
31:36It's been just such a pinch me moment.
31:40Coming up.
31:41You know, I don't like the fact that these guys are taking advantage of you.
31:45What?
31:46I don't.
31:47I absolutely do not feel that the four of us are taking advantage of you at all.
31:51Not in the slightest.
31:52Or you can give them a deal if you want to compete.
32:07It's something wild and challenging to do as entrepreneurs.
32:10And we're here and we're just going to show up and do our best.
32:12Why not do it with your best friend?
32:14That's right.
32:15Okay.
32:16Let's have fun.
32:17Because you know what?
32:18Why not?
32:19Last into the den, two friends here to set a new standard by weaving authenticity and tradition into their designs.
32:27Ani Zibikwe, Indigenous Cause.
32:28Hello.
32:29My name is Trisha Petrera.
32:30Bonjour.
32:31My name is Melanie Bernard and we are the co-founders of Mini Tipee based in Gatineau, Quebec.
32:40What's your ask?
32:41$200,000 for 10% of our business.
32:44We started our business as two stay-at-home moms sewing washcloths in our basement during nap times.
32:51And as the business evolved with product development, we noticed a lack of authentic Indigenous designs in the textile industry across Canada.
32:59Oh, wow.
33:00Okay.
33:01That is when in 2019, we decided to change the narrative to ensure proper representation and appreciation of the Indigenous culture through all of our designs.
33:11Very nice.
33:12Very nice.
33:13So what started as a side hustle rapidly grew into a leading Indigenous blanket business in Canada.
33:19Not only do we share knowledge in our blankets, we also create accessories such as our bags, and we also create shawls.
33:31Gifting a blanket in my culture is a symbol of respect, unity, and relationship building.
33:38Today, dragons, we have gifted you blankets beside you.
33:41Oh.
33:42Feel free to open them up.
33:43They're a queen size, so generous size.
33:45Like they're that size.
33:46Yes, exactly.
33:47Like that size.
33:48Oh, my God.
33:49Wow, these are pretty.
33:50Look at my beautiful colors.
33:51Well, then you can see that some of them have, like, really distinct reversible aspects of them.
33:54Mm.
33:55Yes.
33:56They're really soft.
33:57Very nice.
33:58I gift blankets non-stop to people.
34:00Everyone's home could use another blanket.
34:02I always believed that.
34:03What's the material makeup?
34:04It's a wool blend of recycled wool.
34:07And also recycled polyester and acrylic.
34:10You design them all?
34:11I design them for our brand, but then we also collaborate with Indigenous artists across Canada as well,
34:16to also share their knowledge that's been passed down through their nations or their elders or their community.
34:22So this one here, as you can see, it's inspired by the jingle dress, and it's part of regalia that's worn at Pow Wows.
34:29How much do you sell it for in comparison to your competitors?
34:32We retail the blankets for $198.
34:35That seems really reasonable.
34:36So we have three sales channels.
34:38We sell on our website.
34:39We sell through 70 retail stores across Canada, and we also do corporate gifting.
34:44When I search Indigenous blankets on Google, you guys show up as the first hit, which is really impressive because this is a competitive category if people are looking for this.
34:55I mean, we all know that these languages are getting lost, and it's something that's so integral to the community and to the culture.
35:01I'm surprised you don't have any Indigenous language on here.
35:04That's a really good point, Arlene, and also just people reconnecting to the culture, and that language was lost.
35:12But you're not here with an emotional, social cause that you're selling to people. You're selling us a business.
35:17Yeah.
35:18That just has a social connection to it, but you're selling us business first.
35:21That's why it's sustainable.
35:23Yeah.
35:24Can we talk about your sales?
35:26In 2024, our sales were 2.3 million.
35:29Whoa.
35:30That's a lot of blankets.
35:32What was 22 and 23?
35:33So, 2022 was 1.4, 2023 was 1.7.
35:38What are you projecting for this coming here?
35:403 million.
35:413 million.
35:42Did you pay yourselves?
35:43Yes.
35:44Wow.
35:45Like, honestly, that's impressive.
35:46Our first year was $9,000 sewing washcloths.
35:48I love a good business that's been started by moms who are just saying, let's get together and do something.
35:53I just, I love, but you're not trying to sell something that's not in your line of sight,
35:58which I really appreciate because a lot of people come in here and say, oh, we're going to be $15 million next year.
36:03And you said, listen, we've had 30% growth year over year.
36:06We're not going to try and pretend that we're going to do more.
36:08There's no line of sight.
36:09And there's no line of sight to how they're going to get there.
36:11This is two moms that made it happen.
36:13Yeah.
36:14We've got everything worked out, which is kind of refreshing.
36:16What's the $200,000 for?
36:18What are you, what do you need us for?
36:20It would be, of course, to help us with the retail expansion, help us with the scaling, the production, and research and development.
36:28Do you really want an investor at this point?
36:32I think that we're ready.
36:34You know, like we, we have put in a lot of like blood, sweat and tears into this business.
36:38And you're right.
36:39It's like a secret recipe of effort and attitude.
36:42And I don't want to cry.
36:43I swear to God.
36:44I said I wasn't going to cry.
36:46Trish, why are you emotional?
36:48I am so emotional, Wes, all the time.
36:51Just recognizing standing here, like where we've come, where we're going to be going.
36:56And it's just kind of, it's real.
36:58It's just like kind of that reminder of people are watching.
37:02And I feel like Melanie, I and I are leading the way and opening the doors for other people to walk a little bit easier next time.
37:09You know, there's a joy.
37:10Yeah.
37:11You have passion in your business.
37:12You're emotional about it.
37:14And that's what we want to see from entrepreneurs.
37:17And those are the people that get deals when they come into the den.
37:21Give them a deal, Wes.
37:22Well, you know, well, here's, here's the thing, right?
37:26I don't necessarily have to own your company to be a part of your company.
37:30I am going to order your product for all my clients.
37:34But I'm not going to be an investor at this stage because retail for me is just, it's a little bit tough.
37:39I'm going to be out for that reason, but I'm definitely going to be a customer.
37:44I, when you came out, I loved three things that you said, respect, unity and relationships.
37:53I want to do this.
37:54I want to do this with someone.
37:56I don't know if someone wants to join me who's really good at retail.
37:59I'm great at storytelling.
38:01This is a storytelling business.
38:05I'd be willing to come in.
38:08Yeah, I would too.
38:10I'd come in on that deal too.
38:12I think we do 20% if there's four of us.
38:15I mean, one thing to let you know as well, just on my side, we're in, you know, a thousand-plus retail outlets, USA and Canada.
38:22I mean, we have a lot of reach on top of all the reach that I know that comes from everyone else in the chairs up here.
38:28I know it sounds like giving up a little bit more equity, but it's actually a lot more.
38:31A little more?
38:32You're giving up half your company.
38:33They're not giving them half their company.
38:34They're giving up 20%.
38:35They cut your valuation in half.
38:37Guys, the valuation's cut in half.
38:38For 20%, you're getting four dragons with different levels of expertise.
38:43Or you can give them a deal if you want to compete.
38:45Hold on.
38:46Yeah, Wes and I think that we're going to come in.
38:49Go ahead, Wes.
38:51Yeah, no, I don't like the fact that these guys are taking advantage of you.
38:56That's...
38:57I don't.
39:13I want to do this.
39:14I want to do this with someone.
39:15I'd be willing to come in.
39:16Yeah, I would, too.
39:17I'd come in on that deal, too.
39:18I think we do 20% if there's four of us.
39:19They cut your valuation in half.
39:20You can give them a deal.
39:21You want to compete?
39:22Yeah, no, I don't like the fact that these guys are taking advantage of you.
39:23Yeah, I agree.
39:24I don't.
39:25I'm going to make an off with Manjit and I coming in and give you $200,000.
39:28For 15% of your company.
39:29And I can help you with the retail and the B2B for sure.
39:31I want to say one thing just to keep in mind.
39:34I absolutely do not feel that the four of us are taking advantage of you at all.
39:37I think out of anybody here, I probably have the most.
39:39I think out of anybody here, I probably have the most.
39:41I think out of anybody here, I probably have the most.
39:42I think out of anybody here, I probably have the most.
39:44They cut your valuation.
39:45They cut your valuation in half.
39:46They cut your valuation in half.
39:47You can give them a deal.
39:48You want to compete?
39:49Yeah, no, I don't like the fact that these guys are taking advantage of you.
39:51Yeah, I agree.
39:52I don't.
39:53I do not feel that the four of us are taking advantage of you at all.
39:56I think out of anybody here, I probably have the most experience in the home space when it comes to product.
40:00It's just that I know what my brand can already do to scale things up.
40:05But you now have two great offers and you have a decision to make.
40:10Could we just discuss it?
40:12Yes, of course.
40:13Of course.
40:14Okay.
40:15Okay.
40:16Okay.
40:17Nobody's listening, guys.
40:18Nobody's listening.
40:19Nobody's listening.
40:20Nobody's listening.
40:22You bring back some info to the team, Drew.
40:26So what do you think about the four dragons?
40:31We could go...
40:32Should we huddle two?
40:33We could offer $300,000 for 20%.
40:37So I think that's a good call.
40:39Yeah, yeah.
40:40$400,000 for $200,000.
40:42Yeah, to keep our evaluation.
40:44Yeah, to keep our evaluation.
40:45I know we can.
40:46Perfect.
40:47Okay, you'd be good.
40:48Let's do that.
40:49Okay.
40:50So what have you guys designed?
40:53We value and appreciate all of your offers.
40:58We would like to make a counter offer to the four dragons that wanted to partner together for $400,000 for 20%.
41:09So while you were talking, we were talking, and we also thought that we wanted to come back with another counter.
41:20So what we came up with was $300,000 for 20%.
41:24And listen, I love that you have the courage of negotiation and that you're prepared to stand there and ask for that.
41:39So for me, I would be okay with that.
41:40So for me, I would be okay with that.
41:55What do you guys say?
41:56I'm good.
41:57I'll be fine.
41:58I'm good?
41:59Yeah.
42:00Yeah.
42:01Yeah, you have a deal.
42:02You have a deal.
42:03A deal?
42:04Great negotiating.
42:05We got them the more.
42:08Thank you so much.
42:09Thank you, Michelle.
42:11That was amazing negotiating.
42:13It's not my deal, ladies, but I got to get in here, okay?
42:17You're welcome.
42:18Thank you, Wes.
42:19Congratulations.
42:20I'm sad you didn't pick us, but it's okay.
42:23Thank you for the gift.
42:24Thank you, enjoy.
42:25Thank you, everyone.
42:27I will be a customer, you guys.
42:28We're charging you more, Wes.
42:29I need a discount.
42:30I need a discount, okay?
42:32Look, won't that business be an inspiration for so many young teenagers?
42:37Oh, yeah.
42:38This is how it's done.
42:39Oh, my God.
42:45What happened?
42:46What just happened?
42:47I'm so proud of you.
42:48I'm proud of you, too.
42:50Next time on Dragon's Den.
42:52This is the biggest thing to come out of New Brunswick in a while.
42:55Whoa.
42:56Oh.
42:57Oh.
42:58They call me Wreck-It Ralph.
42:59You're asking us to pay for the value of what you're going to grow the business into
43:03today.
43:04So it's very fair for a manufacturing company.
43:06One that's not making money?
43:07Well, right now we're not making profits.
43:09Right.
43:10So that's not what I would call fair.
43:12How many people do you have working with you?
43:14Oh, just me.
43:15Just you.
43:16So that's the issue, right?
43:17You don't really have the bandwidth to do all the things that you're doing right now.
43:21I am here now because I'm finally accepting the fact that I need a mentor and support.
43:27Kathy, why at this stage of your career have you decided to take the risk to be an entrepreneur?
43:32I've made a lot of people a lot of money.
43:33I want to make myself some money now.
43:34Good answer.
43:35Good answer.
43:36Good answer.
43:37Good answer.
43:38Good answer.
44:07Good answer.
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