- il y a 2 jours
Lire l'article : https://www.duanju.fr/en/post/wenwen-han-shares-the-keys-to-writing-duanju
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00:00Very happy to have you for this interview, really happy because we've been talking for a long time now and I know you are a key person in the short drama environment and ecosystem, you've been doing a lot and actually right now you are writing books for writers and for anyone interested in this ecosystem.
00:25So I would like to know more about that, but first can you please introduce yourself to the audience?
00:30Sure. Hello, everyone. My name is Wen Wen or you can call me Maggie. So I'm a short drama producer from China and also the founder of Short Drama Alliance. Thank you for inviting me.
00:42Thank you for being there. Thank you for joining. And of course, you have created actually the Short Drama Alliance to try actually to have people united and people coming together regarding this short drama ecosystem.
00:57And I know that you want to build more right now and you want to create training plans and also books to share about your passion and about your work and to help writers know how to write better in this new narrative that is short drama.
01:13So can you please let us know more about your two books? So there is one that is more an introduction of the whole ecosystem and one that's more oriented about pure writing and how you build good short drama and good douanjou.
01:28So can you tell us more about these two books? So can you tell us more about these two books? Why two books? And who is the audience, actually?
01:35Sure. So our goal is actually connecting creators worldwide to shape the future of storytelling. So that's our ultimate goal of SDA.
01:43Okay. So I write two booklets. The first one is in the past year, I talked to different creators. They reached out in LinkedIn and asked me a lot of questions. What is short drama? How to write short dramas? A lot of questions I found they are very similar.
01:59So that's why I decided maybe I should write it down something for introducing what is short drama, how we define duanjou as a short drama. Because if you only mention about the verticals, this format, I think I've seen that about six to eight years ago, when there's a streaming platform in China, I think there are short stories in different episodes, story-like.
02:25But the duanjou right now we are mentioning, it's heavily based on ad buying. It's something new emerged in TikTok era. So I'm defining this format as a new duanjou or new format. So I need to define this first and introduce this basic, this element, what is new, what's innovation of duanjou, of short drama.
02:52So that's why I started to write this book. And also because I have a red note, it's called Xiaohongshu, a Chinese-like Instagram account. I published some articles, my thoughts on how to write short drama is about a year and a year and a half ago.
03:09So I have some articles written already. So I just reorganized those articles and plot some introduction, what is short drama, what is the innovation of short drama, and what's the ad buying logic behind it.
03:24So if you understand the ad buying logic of short drama, you understand, okay, this is completely different something like then TV or then other than those kind of like shorter form of TV series, it's different from TV series.
03:42And it's not some kind of like film cut into pieces. No, that's completely different storytelling.
03:49So yeah, so I wrote this booklet. The first version is about the definition about what is hook, what is cleft panel, and also I give in some, explain the ad buying logic.
04:03And then I give you, I introduce what is the psychology side of short drama, why people are watching this, why so many people are watching this in China, and what kind of thing you can tell those Chinese are anxious about, and what those Chinese audience are craving of from this thousands, tens of thousands short drama titers.
04:25And also, I've also explained, I also, the second version, I just updated the second version, I add more, two more case studies. So one is male oriented story, and the other is female oriented story. So I break down scripts to tell, to tell, show our readers, what is short drama, how to structure short drama, and what is like, attracting the audience, how to write this. So this is the first booklet.
04:54Shall I continue to introduce the second one?
04:58Yeah, of course. And I think it's very interesting and important work, because I think that first, in the ecosystem, we may have some confusions about what it is about. Because as you were saying, it's very, it's a new narrative, a new storytelling, when sometimes people think it's only a new format.
05:14It's only, you know, the fact that it's vertical screen, but actually, it's a lot more than that. And that's what you explain in your book. And that's what I like about it, that you really explain where it comes from, and why it's so different.
05:26So I think it's, for me, the basis to really understand what it is about. And really, if you want to create, don't you, or if you really want to get into that kind of business, you really need to know the basics. And that's what you provide. So thank you for these first insights, because I think they are really needed in this environment, really to better understand what it is.
05:49And the second book, you also thought that it was needed, because you had a question about the writing?
05:54Yeah, so that's the second version of short drama writing 101. I want to add more, explain more about the short drama writing about Duan Ju. So actually, I believe their origins are two. One is called web novel, the Chinese web novel, because the short drama or Duan Ju borrow heavily, those genres borrow heavily from web novels. The second one, it's called creative ads.
06:22So think about the web novel, I'm not sure you got this. I think you have this in Europe, in France as well, right? Web novels, everyone for everyone can write web novels. So a lot of people, they're not professional film script writers.
06:39They were just ordinary people, like stay-at-home moms, or some, I know I have a friend, she is a nurse, and she's back home and writes some web novels, like 10 chapters, maybe 20 chapters, to attract different readers.
06:55So if those web novels, they can ask the reader to unlock, let's say they write about 100 chapters, and then they can ask the reader to unlock. So it's exactly the same.
07:10And China has over around 30-year history of web novel writing. So everyone can write web novels, everyone can read web novels, and a lot of readers read this.
07:23I think overseas, you never heard of Chinese web novel because it's written in words. And those words can, it's hard to translate. Of course, there are some foreigners, they like Chinese web novels, they translate, they voluntarily translate into different languages, but it still have little influence.
07:40Until the video came out, the TikTok came out. So those words can be translated into videos, and people can watch. Of course, there are other Chinese short dramas, or short dramas. So that's the difference. Think about this. Those workers, or those nurses, or students, when they back home, they have a few time, and they write down like 10 chapters for tonight, okay?
08:07And they will leave a cliffhanger, because they want to leave some time for the other readers to read and comment. And then they want to hook people. So maybe next day, or the day, two days later, when they have time, they will write more chapters.
08:23It's exactly the same. So those writers, they were trying to write cliffhanger. They have to attract viewers. Otherwise, if there is no reader to read it, if there are no followers, they don't have, they don't earn money from that.
08:37So that's a very competitive, and it's a very grassroots kind of content. So I think that's what Duan Zhu is, it's a very grassroots content. And it's, and those writers kind of talk directly to those readers, through this web novel website, no app, right? Think about films, let's think about films.
08:58When the films first invented or showed in France by Lumière, Lumière Brothers, right? You will know that they're sitting in a, yeah, they're sitting in a cafe, they show this picture, those moving pictures, the audience said, Oh, I like this one. Oh, this is amazing. Maybe they were talking about maybe I want something new. So those kind of movie makers, the early age movie makers talked directly with the audience.
09:24But because the industry involved, right, from movie, and they were giant movie, big movies, Hollywood movies. And then it's kind of like bunch of professionals, professional people like you and me, well educated people, and somebody sitting in their ballroom discussing what kind of script should I, should we decide for to build for to write for our audience, but actually don't talk to the audience, I think.
09:51So I'm not saying like Duan Jui is better than films. But it's kind of because the involving of this format of this film. So our creators kind of get a distance, a very long distance from the audience.
10:06So Duan Jui is so, because so cheap, it's compared to films, so cheap to produce, it can directly produce, and then release and show this creative ads in TikTok, in Chinese TikTok, of course, in foreign, it's overseas, it's a meta system, in Facebook or meta show this creative ads.
10:24If no user click or download the app, then they don't pay, which means this creative ads just not attractive, which means this, because this creative ads, those creative ads are from Duan Jui, right?
10:41So which means those Duan Jui might be not attractive to the certain audience. So maybe they actually kind of talk to directly, talk to or connect to the audience directly. It's like a quick testing, the market quick involving, that's kind of format, because Duan Jui is so cheap compared to films. So that's why I want to explain more about this, of this format.
11:04How to get closer also to the audience, because you can really meet their expectations and know what works. You know when you attract the audience and when you do not, so you can really adjust with the market, with the needs, that's what you're saying, like, because you can, with the high speed, you can go fast, you can test, you can rewrite if need be.
11:27So, of course, film, it's more, let's say, it's longer, it's more money. So of course, when you release, if it doesn't work, then it's too late to try to adapt yourself. So that's where Duan Jui's strength is, where you can really adapt to the audience.
11:43And that's what, I mean, the keys that you give in your book, where you explain how to really build good Duan Jui.
11:50And can you just let us know maybe one or two of your secrets, maybe not to give everything away, but just if you can give one or two things that for you are important.
12:01If some writers are listening to us, what would you tell them where to begin with?
12:07Yeah, sure. I can give everything, actually. It's okay. No problem. Because Duan Jui, it's a hard way to master. It's not something you can learn. Oh, that's easy. You can learn to master this. No.
12:20So basically, you need to understand first is the ad-buying logic. It's the ad-buying logic.
12:27First, those short drama platforms, they edit some video clips out from the Duan Jui, from the whole Duan Jui series.
12:35Normally, the first rounds, they were added out from the free episodes. Normally, 10 to 15 episodes, those are free, right?
12:43Those users watch from episode one to two until maybe episode 10 until they hit a paywall.
12:51They need to buy coins or need to buy a monthly pass. So that's called a paywall.
12:56So the first round, the editors, that's called ad buyers. And the ad buyer will work with one to two editors.
13:05So the editors would choose 10 episodes as their free episodes. And this just uploaded into some AI software.
13:13And they would just output some about 100 to 150 video clips. So creative video clips. Of course, their accounts are very similar because it's like 100 video clips.
13:27Then the ad buyer, they will have accounts. So I think China system and meta system are similar. I'll explain in the China system.
13:35In Chinese Douyin system, there is an account. They can open up accounts. In this account, the ad buyer can upload those creative ads.
13:44And they will top up some money into that. And they'll run those ads to see and to show those creative ads to potential users.
13:52And then you will see it's like a broker. He will sit there and see which creative ads like lead to some people click and they kind of charge, top up, buy coins or, you know, pay money into the in China.
14:09That's called mini program theater. And actually they paid. There's another account. They can see the money comes out.
14:14The money comes in. So they'll say, oh, this creative ads works. And then the ad buyer will say, OK, it would show this video clip to the editor and say those three, maybe 10, those creative ads work very well in the performing market.
14:31OK, so the editor will continue to editing those, do more editing on those 10 creative ads. OK, that's called ad buying logic.
14:39So from writer's point of view, first, of course, you need to download some short drama apps, the top one, and to watch short dramas as much as possible to treat it as a new format.
14:53That's the first thing you need to do. A second one, you need to understand ad buying logic.
14:58So when you write these short dramas, normally that's 30 to 65 episodes. Just watch those apps.
15:07How many episodes are there? And you will write exactly the same.
15:09If that's 65 episodes, maybe episode 10, you need to have a paywall.
15:14And from the first episode to 10 episodes, that's the free episodes.
15:19And you need to write as much as as many short can value or kind of creative contents as you can.
15:28So those content can be added out for the ad buying.
15:32I'm not sure I explained myself clear or not, because the first round,
15:36they are editing those creative ads from the 10 first free episodes.
15:41So when you know the logic, you need to write it that way.
15:45So it's anything very interesting thing, triggering things in my first 10 episodes.
15:51Right. So that's one trick.
15:53The other trick is paywall.
15:55Of course, you need to set a paywall.
15:56So the audience is so eager to know, I just want to pay to watch the next one and you win.
16:05And the third one, I would suggest, yes, still my biggest suggestion is to watch short dramas.
16:13The second one is the ad buying logic.
16:18Oh, the third one is treat it as an emotional product.
16:24The emotion product, it's kind of like the audience projection.
16:28For example, you all know CEO stories, although China got so many genres.
16:33I don't know.
16:34The only thing right now work out in overseas is CEO stories.
16:39So CEO story is a kind of projection of the female audience.
16:44So why those CEO, those people are so handsome, they're strong, they're very caring.
16:50Because maybe in real life, there are not many perfect men like these, these CEOs.
16:57So kind of short drama creates a dream.
17:00It's kind of fantasy for those female audiences.
17:05Those kind of, so they, when they relax, when they relax after work or when the kids were going to sleep,
17:13they would just watch this to release pressure.
17:17That's it.
17:18So give some, give them some dopamine hits.
17:21Not just, it's a lot of, you know, a lot of film writers trying to educate the audience.
17:27So because I trained those companies, writers as well, some people want to educate audience.
17:34And I asked them not to, because I think those audience, they're like, maybe stay at home moms or maybe exalted workers.
17:41Maybe they jump from different jobs.
17:44So they will be educated, educated by life every single day.
17:49So I, so I just tell them, please don't educate them.
17:52Just entertain them, make them feel happy.
17:54And don't give them like a very sad ending.
17:58No, that's the worst thing.
18:01They pay you.
18:03And then they got a very bad ending.
18:06You know, they, you need to keep them happy in the end, feel the release, the pressure release.
18:11And that's, I think that's a purpose.
18:13So treat a short drama as an emotional product.
18:16That's our suggest.
18:18That's the third suggestion.
18:19Yeah.
18:19So that's the psychological part where you need to better understand the desires of your audience.
18:27And as you're saying, like to make her or him or them, to make them happy about what they see, because you're saying they pay.
18:35And I also understand that the writing is also very linked to the business model, right?
18:39So that's also what you explain.
18:42And of course, the first step would be to watch and watch and watch many, many short dramas.
18:49Also, I wanted just one word about the different genres and the different kind of storytellings and different narratives.
18:57We know that there are many, let's say, du en chou and vertigo that are maybe a bit stereotyped.
19:05But now the trend is to have more diverse stories.
19:08What do you think about it?
19:10And do you actually advise people to go for a certain genre?
19:15Do you think that it's good to be specialized?
19:17Or do you think it's better to have a diverse portfolio of stories?
19:20What do you advise to people and to writers?
19:25What do you mean stereotype?
19:27I mean, it's like, oh, CEO stories.
19:29Is that what you mean?
19:32Yeah.
19:32I mean, is it important for people to be specialized in a type of content?
19:38Like, for instance, female audience oriented short dramas or romance?
19:43Or is it better to be diverse and really to try to have different kinds of stories as a writer?
19:50What would you what would you say?
19:53I would say as a new writer, it probably just know the trope first.
19:57Learn how to write short drama first, because it's something it still needs time and energy to adapt to this way to method of writing short drama.
20:08So I would suggest to learn the trope first, maybe how they write CEO stories and maybe add a little bit more on top of that.
20:17For example, there is a Chinese short drama.
20:20I think it's about one year ago.
20:22Their invention is they change the young male and female audience, the female actors into the middle age one.
20:32So like 55 year old, like ordinary woman fell in love with 50 year old, you know, CEO, that type of thing.
20:42And they add some new elements because those people of their age, like 45, they maybe they already get married.
20:48They got some.
20:51They got some.
20:51I think that's 50.
20:53So they got a young son and a son.
20:55They got wife.
20:56They have their relationship.
20:58So they add those things, those elements into this short drama as well.
21:02So maybe I think that's the a little bit innovation of that we called it's a middle age or CEO story.
21:12So I think first, you should learn the trope and second, add some invention on top of that, not just create some completely new genre or story.
21:24So as for the diversity, because I'm not sure every story will work well overseas.
21:32So maybe find your own way.
21:34Maybe romance is definitely work out overseas.
21:39So romance plus something.
21:41I think that's just play safeguard.
21:44Or if you want three, if you're if you are mature writer, short drama writer, which means you're not writing films.
21:52I mean, you are mature short drama writer, and then you can try different genres to think it's OK.
21:58For example, they might be I think thriller.
22:00It's a good trend.
22:02Maybe it's a good way to write short drama because it can create dopamine hits as well.
22:07Thriller.
22:09And also, yeah, horror, maybe I'm not sure.
22:12Horror may be a good way.
22:14Yeah.
22:15So I think first master your skill.
22:19And then if you are a mature writer, you can try different ways.
22:23Also, you need to, you know, cooperate with the platform because eventually that's how the platform make the call.
22:31What they say.
22:32Maybe these days they think, oh, we just tested horror.
22:36It's not good.
22:37So we are not buying any any scripts.
22:40We're not resourcing any scripts from horrors.
22:43Maybe.
22:43So so you don't know.
22:45So the other thing you need to know, because CEO romance still dominated the whole overseas market.
22:53So which means the platform will spend more money on that.
22:57So they will give more money on.
22:58They might be spend more money on the script.
23:01They will buy more script if they are outsourcing scripts.
23:04Right.
23:04So you get a better chance if you write CEO stories and like you, of course, you change a little bit.
23:11Like CEO plus sports, let's say CEO sport, CEO plus vampire or like FBI agent, that kind of story.
23:19It's OK.
23:20But if you want to try horror, that's a very niche genre.
23:24Maybe some emerging platforms will try that, but they will only spend little money on the testing.
23:31Maybe they will spend like 10 percent of money testing those experiments, niche genres.
23:38So maybe one of them is the thing you want to write the horror.
23:42So try to lower your budget when you write short dramas.
23:45Think as a producer.
23:47So don't write like very heavy VFX or just think as a producer.
23:52Maybe I can do this in two or three rooms, two or three locations and find like casting actors, actress.
24:01That's it.
24:02So the platform will say, oh, this is interesting.
24:04It's a good story and it's not very expensive to make.
24:07So we will just make this decision.
24:09So maybe you are, maybe you'll get a higher chance to be hired.
24:13Your scripts will be read and bought by the platform, I would say.
24:17Yeah, because here it's not just about storytelling.
24:22It's also about how it's going to be shot.
24:24So we need also to think as a producer, as we're saying, and as a director, director kind of.
24:30So that's also very interesting to build a narrative.
24:34And as you're saying, like, go first with the basics of a genre and then try to maybe add your own touch.
24:41But just on top of that, not just to do very, let's say, two original things.
24:48If you want to be distributed, at least right now, because maybe the markets also want safe stories.
24:56Yeah, because, you know, because of the ad buying logic, actually 80 to 90 percent of the money is spent on ad buying,
25:06which means only 10 to 20 percent are spent on production.
25:10And I guess just part of it is spent on script.
25:13So think of this.
25:15So the whole platform, they would treat, OK, we'll spend that amount of money on ad buying.
25:21Right.
25:22So script compared to this, it's very little money to that.
25:26So how can you compete with other script if you are not hired by the platform, you're outsourcing this.
25:32And there are not many overseas platforms right now and there are not many overseas platforms or even Chinese platforms.
25:40They want to buy scripts overseas.
25:44So that's a problem.
25:45So only a few, they want to outsource in scripts.
25:48So need to understand their needs.
25:50Right.
25:51And thinking like what they think, what the platform think.
25:55So write the short drama scripts.
25:57They want it, I think.
26:00Very interesting.
26:02And then what would be your vision for the future and the perspective that you wish for for us to want to in terms of writing,
26:12but also in terms of ecosystem, partnerships, development.
26:16What is your vision and what are you wishing for?
26:20And also helping to develop and improve because you really are part of the ecosystem and trying to make it work.
26:26So what are your plans?
26:27Because I know that you are also trying to train people.
26:30You already are trying also to give good advice, trying also to work so that people can build better short dramas and attract a good audience.
26:42So how do you do that?
26:44And what are you trying to build with the short drama aliens?
26:48So for the vision, I think Duanjui is just the beginning era overseas because it's quite competitive, mature in China, although we don't see it's at the peak already.
26:59So it's haven't reached to the peak in China and China is, I think, it's around two years ahead of the rest of the world because China is switching into IAA era, which means we are watching some advertisement to unlock new episodes.
27:15And overseas right now, especially in North American market, they're still in IAP era, in app purchase era, people still pay to unlock, which is like two years ago in China.
27:26So I think it's still the beginning of everything in overseas, especially in North America.
27:34So I think there is a great billion future overseas and it's multi-billion dollar business, actually.
27:41Also, I think for the vision, I think everyone can write short drama.
27:47As I explained in the early of our interview, those people, they write short drama, they used to, a lot of people, they used to write web novels.
27:57And web novel is written by everyone for the grassroots.
28:01So everyone can write short dramas if you master the skill.
28:05And because with the AI development, have you seen the Sora videos?
28:11Because it's so real.
28:12I watched a few videos, so real.
28:15Although it's not clear enough, but I think it has a clear, higher quality.
28:22It just haven't released yet.
28:25So what if, I'm thinking, what if Sora, they got an app already?
28:29What if they say, okay, we will do the monetization model.
28:34Everyone can upload their own videos, their stories, and the other can pay to unlock.
28:41And what if, I don't know, because in China, Chinese TikTok, they have some mini program theaters.
28:47That's kind of an extension, like a Google extension, embedded in Chinese TikTok.
28:53So viewers can pay, they watch the video clips, the creative ads, they click a link in the page, and they will directly get into a mini program theater where they can watch, pay, and that's it.
29:07So what if TikTok overseas, they launch the same function, which I believe they were, it's very highly possible to launch the same function.
29:17So which means everyone, and especially with AI, everyone can produce with a very low price.
29:25So the most important thing of this era is how to tell a story in a TikTok era with a good hook in the beginning with Cliff Henner to attract viewers how to tell this story.
29:38So I think that's an important thing.
29:40So that's why, first, when I train some company writers, there is a smaller company from Europe.
29:48They ask me whether I can do the course, but they, the course, the tele course, it's a little bit over their budget.
29:56I was like, okay, I would do an online course.
29:58So I was designing an online course, actually, until like, I haven't recorded until I saw the Sora video.
30:06I think, oh, you know what?
30:08I don't do this anymore.
30:10I think I should launch a course for everyone, for the grassroots.
30:13I think I should train, do that for them, although I don't provide feedback.
30:17I can, they can, like, leave comments in my official website.
30:22They can leave their assignments and comment on each other assignment to learn.
30:26So I think I launched the course for everyone to learn.
30:30So that's the second one.
30:32What's the, another question?
30:34The future and the course, right?
30:39Yes.
30:39And also, maybe do you plan to have a course for advanced writers, maybe,
30:45because you have the one-on-one, you expand the definition ecosystem.
30:49Do you want to go further and maybe have an advanced course?
30:52Or do you think it's too early?
30:55I think it's a little bit early.
30:57For right now, it's for grassroots.
31:00So I launched the course already.
31:01I will upload, like, in a few days, I'm going to record a few more video clips.
31:07I'll upload it into the same course, of course.
31:10So to introduce how to write, what kind of hooks are they?
31:14I will show some video clips from the short drama, Chinese short drama,
31:17so that people can watch and understand, oh, this is a hook.
31:20This is a good hook.
31:22And I'll give you some example how to improve this short drama.
31:25So if we, like, add a little more, then this short drama can be improved.
31:30So I will give more examples from short dramas, especially from Chinese short dramas.
31:35Because I believe right now, I think the overseas kind of have very little understanding of Chinese short drama.
31:43I mean, not performed by, like, over foreign actors, but the Chinese actors.
31:49Actually, they are very good quality, well-performed, and very high-budget Chinese short drama right now.
31:56But I don't think they know about this, so I'll probably just share some video clips.
32:00Of course, for the education purpose only.
32:03I add watermarks, everything onto that.
32:06So I just want to share the story, how the story is, how they tell the story, how they hook the audience.
32:13And also, we got different genres.
32:15So I'm going to the second version.
32:18I'm going to introduce some different genres, some Chinese duanju.
32:23Or from those genres, actually, from Chinese web novels as well.
32:28For example, Reborn.
32:30I'm not sure I've heard about Reborn.
32:31Reborn is a very common genre in China.
32:34And there's one called, I don't know how to translate, it's like, get into a book.
32:39For example, the female lead wakes up in the first episode.
32:43She finds herself become the supporting figure in the web novel she reads yesterday.
32:51And that web novel, she is the evil woman.
32:56So how she, like, win everyone's heart, because her become an evil woman, everyone treat her badly.
33:05So, and she eventually died in this web novel.
33:08So how can she turn her fate around?
33:12That's a very common trope.
33:13So that we just call it get into a book, or travel into a book.
33:17So the Reborn and travel into a book is a very popular genre.
33:21So I think if overseas can learn this, like, genre they can understand, I think it's very interesting.
33:28For example, there are some stories, those female leads or male leads, they get into ancient times.
33:35For example, in, like, two, maybe 100 years back, into a poor village.
33:40And she kind of become the evil stepmother of some kids.
33:45So how can she, using her ability, because she's a modern woman, from modern times, right?
33:51She got some knowledge of modern times.
33:54So how can she help the whole family from the poverty, and help the whole village from the poverty,
34:01from starvation, from everyone's hungry, they don't have food, right?
34:04How can she do that?
34:06It's a very interesting story.
34:09Let's say, put it in a French background, or American background, right?
34:12It will be very interesting.
34:14I don't think those, you know, American writers know that yet.
34:17If they know this genre, I think it's very interesting.
34:21Yeah.
34:21Yeah, and I think that's also what I like, that you really propose examples,
34:24and that you really deconstruct, or you can really make us see what we do not know yet.
34:30So I think with examples, that's also very, very interesting for writers, especially overseas writers.
34:38And I think that that's how you explain things, with examples.
34:43That's what you propose.
34:44And that's why I really invite the audience to check your books, and to go for your training plans,
34:52because I think it's very interesting.
34:54Everything is coming from China.
34:56I mean, lots of it.
34:58And I think you really master the skills, and you are here also to spread the words.
35:03So that's, yeah, that's a very great initiative.
35:06And thank you for that, and for being in need with these projects.
35:10What can we wish for you in the future, and do you have any final words to say to the audience and to the writers?
35:19Right.
35:19I haven't introduced the Future Playbook, but I can introduce it in a very short time.
35:24Yes, of course, you can also introduce that one so that people know exactly what they can have in both.
35:32Yeah, sure, because you asked me this question before.
35:34The second book is called Future Playbook, China's short drama ecosystem and insights for global business.
35:41Because still, in the past year, many people talked to me, including some investors and people from the funds.
35:50So they asked me a lot of questions, how do you see the ecosystem of short drama?
35:56So that's why I decided to write another book, another e-book, to write the whole structure of Chinese short drama.
36:04What is Chinese short drama?
36:05How do Chinese short drama work in Chinese TikTok?
36:08How people pay, and what's the people's user behavior?
36:12So actually, I also asked, consult my friend, who is a co-founder of a small platform.
36:19And also, he got some material, some resources.
36:22Actually, I licensed from him.
36:24So I structured the whole ecosystem to introduce Chinese short drama ecosystem.
36:31And also, there are different variations of short drama.
36:35For example, there are AI comics.
36:37It's very popular right now in China.
36:39It's like a trendy thing in China.
36:42For example, there are tourism short drama.
36:45There are interactive short dramas.
36:48It's not actually an interactive game, but they heavily borrow some how the story is told from Duan Zhu.
36:54And also, I want to mention about AI comic, AI comics.
37:01Because most of short drama, in Chinese short drama, they target female audience.
37:06They target male audience.
37:07Most of the people are targets.
37:09But for those younger people, over 20 years old, maybe 15, over 20 years old, they haven't been talked yet.
37:15And the AI comics is the final puzzle of this whole picture.
37:22So they target those younger, around 20, those people.
37:26The first wave is to male audience, the younger males.
37:30And then it's to female audience.
37:33So that's just very trendy right now.
37:35So I'm introducing everything, including I have some case studies.
37:39For example, some MCN companies, how they become the top platform in China.
37:45So I have some case study breakouts.
37:48It's not like, you know, you can buy some materials from consulting company.
37:54It's not like that.
37:55Because I work in an industry.
37:58I know this industry.
37:59And I can have my observation from this industry.
38:02I know what it works, what it doesn't.
38:06And I also put my comments on top of that, my case study on top of that.
38:11So if you know, I can only show what happened in China.
38:15So because China is like two years ahead of everything.
38:20So if you know the trend of Chinese short drama ecosystem, how to evolve,
38:24maybe it will tell something will happen overseas, follow the same path.
38:31For example, from IAP to I8, that's definitely a trend.
38:35That's 100% a trend.
38:38But because overseas is still in a very early stage.
38:42The other thing is for the platforms, for Chinese platform,
38:46if you observe those Chinese platforms, none of them are from production backgrounds.
38:52So you will see overseas, a lot of production companies say,
38:54hey, you know what?
38:54I want to launch an app.
38:56I don't want to cooperate with Chinese app anymore.
38:58But if you observe the Chinese platforms, none of them come from production backgrounds.
39:03They either come from one is from web novel backgrounds.
39:08They used to produce or publish web novels.
39:12Two, the other one is come from ad buying backgrounds.
39:16Those are major players.
39:17And 90% of them come from web novel backgrounds.
39:20Because it's simple.
39:22Like short drama, the origin of short drama is web novel and ad buying.
39:27So either you have to have one skill.
39:29Either you have a big amount of content, or you have the ability to do the ad buying.
39:36Does it make sense?
39:38So from the production background, you don't have anything.
39:41You don't have the content.
39:42You don't have the IP.
39:43Right?
39:44And you don't have the ad buying ability.
39:47Maybe you can hire some team, but they are not as good as the companies they used to do, the ad buying.
39:54Right?
39:55So that makes sense.
39:56The only few exceptions is one MCN company.
39:59The other is gaming company.
40:00But that's just two exceptions.
40:02That's it.
40:03So if the investors overseas want to invest those, you know, apps,
40:09maybe that's something they will take into consideration.
40:12Should they invest those production company, you know, apps from production company background?
40:16Maybe, maybe they can invest hundreds or like tens, like a bunch of like 50 apps.
40:23Maybe that's.
40:24But if you only invest one app, you need to think very carefully because this future playbook,
40:30I read it already and explained it already.
40:33And the other thing is a lot of productions in China, they don't happen in first-tail cities.
40:38What I say, first-tail cities, something, some cities you hear, for example, Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen,
40:44and that's all we're called first-tail cities.
40:46The second-tail cities, they are big, but they are not that well-developed.
40:51But they still got five-tail hotels.
40:54They have good facilities.
40:56So a lot of production companies are based there because it's cheaper.
41:00So there are some creative hub.
41:02So many production companies were there and the actors, they're moving there.
41:07Maybe some actors even live there.
41:09So if you want to invest creative hub in states, let's say, maybe don't think about Los Angeles.
41:16Los Angeles is like Beijing.
41:19It's well, the platformer-based, right?
41:21But the production company or based on second or third-tail cities,
41:26that's something maybe you can learn from the Chinese ecosystem, the playbook.
41:31That's what I'm trying to explain in my playbook.
41:35Yeah.
41:36There's a kind of advice that you give, and I think that's very insightful
41:39and many, many things, not only about the environment for production,
41:45but also about the perspective, the future.
41:47So that's what I think is very interesting.
41:49And also the format where you have many case studies, as you were saying.
41:53So I think that's really worth it.
41:56So please, yeah, go check and take a look at the books from Wen Wen
42:01because they're really, really interesting.
42:03And I'm sure that, you know, in the future, there will be many more.
42:07Also going with the evolution of Dwanju.
42:10And that's what we wish for you and the whole community.
42:15So thank you very much, Wen Wen.
42:17It was really, really great to have all of this advice,
42:20really gave away many, many tips.
42:22And I'm sure it's already going to help many people and many writers
42:26who are listening to us.
42:28So thank you for that.
42:29And I hope we can have you again in a next interview for future books.
42:34Okay.
42:34Thank you very much.
42:35Thank you for having me.
42:37Thank you.
42:38Thank you a lot, Wen Wen.
42:39Thank you.
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