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00:00We heard from Madame Lagarde how she's concerned about the rare earth supply chain.
00:03I mean, we saw how the two sides, the U.S. and China, had an agreement.
00:09China has agreed to delay the curbs on rare earths for at least a year.
00:14How hopeful are you about that?
00:16No, I'm very hopeful that that will happen, but I'm not, you know, putting all my bets to it.
00:23I think that the last few years have really shown the value of predictability.
00:29Sweden is such a predictable country.
00:32We're a stable country.
00:33If you make an agreement with the Swedes, if you make an agreement with Bush, then what you see is what you get.
00:40And I think the value to that has also increased.
00:43I have hope that we will now see a dampening of the very hot part of this trade turmoil and trade war, to be frank, that we have seen in the last year.
00:55It has affected Swedish businesses a lot.
00:57But it has affected also, I would say, the relationship between the countries.
01:01This had not been a good period.
01:03So I'm hoping for a dampening of this.
01:05And I have hope that there will be a prolongation to this.
01:09The thing is, the world is dependent on China for rare earths.
01:13What does Europe need to do to wean itself of its dependence on China?
01:18Well, we need to find our own confidence again.
01:21I don't know how many scared European leaders that I've met over the last few years, everyone being very concerned with what other countries are doing, looking to China, looking to the U.S., not knowing what we'll wake up to next on X.
01:38Will the playing field have been completely shifted from one day to another?
01:43I think it's time for us to see the value that we have within our own realms.
01:47Just look at the Kingdom of Sweden.
01:49We have one of the largest rare earth elements deposits in the very northern part of Sweden in Kirona.
01:56And I think we should do our own homework, and Sweden is doing that now with a new mineral strategy, seeing how we can get up to speed and more predictability when it comes to the mining sector of Sweden and the whole of Europe.
02:11So given the capacity that you're anticipating from your own minds, how big a role do you think Sweden can play in the global rare earth supply chain?
02:18If you look at what we know that we have in the Swedish ground, we stand at the brink of becoming yet again a global powerhouse when it comes to the mining sector.
02:30I mean, we already have some of the absolute best capabilities when it comes to the mining sector.
02:37If you look at the global innovation index, we're number two when it comes to innovation, and that is also reflected within the mining sector.
02:45But if you look at the hard value in the soil, it's massive.
02:50And if we just zoom out a little bit, I mean, everyone knows the dependence and the effects of the dependence that we had of a Russian gas, the massive effects that that had.
03:01I don't say this lightly, but I would say that that dependence will look like a nice summer day in comparison to the dependence that we have to China when it comes to all of those critical materials and metals
03:14that are needed for both digitalization and the green transition.
03:18When talking about rare earths, it's fine and good because they say that, you know, you can find sources everywhere.
03:23The key thing is the ability, the appetite to absorb the environmental effects.
03:29China could do it because it was willing to tolerate it.
03:32Its people were willing to tolerate it.
03:34For a country like Sweden and other developed nations, the appetite to absorb, you know, the spillover into the environment may not be there.
03:44No, but let's be frank.
03:46If you look at a mine in Sweden, for example, and I would just visit it 2.4 kilometers down into the ground of Sweden.
03:59I was just there a few weeks ago with Commissioner Zegener.
04:03And I mean, that type of mine looks completely different to a mine in Congo.
04:08And that's precisely my point.
04:10We can provide a completely different way of getting those critical metals and minerals that are needed moving forward by our way of mining.
04:23And this is what we're looking both to export that capability and expertise, but also make sure that we rather do it in Sweden and in Europe rather than be this dependent off of China.
04:34And I mean, we are already seeing quite worrisome reports from different businesses where they are being asked to give up information that they should not be giving away to get access to the critical metals and minerals that are needed for their core business.
04:56So, I mean, the only way to move forward from this is not by grander rhetorics.
05:00It's actually doing our own European homework.
05:03And Sweden is doing that now by making sure that we can provide some of the riches that we have to the global market.
05:12One of the key concerns for Europe, for the EU, is actually Russia.
05:17The bloc has imposed new sanctions, new sanctions on Russian oil as well.
05:21We know that the Swedish Navy does provide some service in helping to track fleets which carry Russian oil.
05:30How effective do you think it has been?
05:33Well, first of all, Sweden is also doing our homework when it comes to security issues.
05:37We now have a clear set target of reaching 5 percent of GDP by 2030.
05:42We'll reach that with the budget that we set out to parliament already by next year, reaching 2.8 percent.
05:49And that also increases our capability of providing this type of tracking capacity, of course, of Russian oil and gas.
05:58This is difficult.
06:00And this is the reason why it's so important that we try to keep as good track of this as possible.
06:06But it's always going to be complicated.
06:09The best way is to make sure you move away from these fossil sources altogether and provide other stable energy sources like, for example, nuclear power.
06:21We know that Russian oil company Luke Oil is now looking to sell its international assets because of the sanctions imposed on Russia.
06:30And we're also reading reports that those assets are getting sold to a Swedish oil billionaire.
06:36What's your take on such transactions?
06:38Well, I mean, of course, I'm happy that Luke Oil is stressed.
06:43They should be.
06:44That's exactly where we wanted these sanctions to hit.
06:49But I want it to be felt.
06:52And, of course, I don't sanction it then being sold to other parts.
06:57And I would not sanction and be very happy if it ended up in the hands of a Swede.
07:02And we know that all these sanctions are in part to address the war with Ukraine.
07:08I'm just wondering what the status is when it comes to Sweden providing or selling 150 jets to Ukraine.
07:15What's the status of that?
07:16Well, so I was very happy to gather with my prime minister of Christensen to welcome President Zelensky once again to Sweden, this time on site in Linköping.
07:27And as I sat down with him, it's very clear that they are now also really putting a pin in sort of like the hope for tomorrow and building a stronger Ukraine for tomorrow.
07:40That also builds resilience on the ground today.
07:44And, I mean, the Joss Gripen is one of the best firefighters in the world, to quote another beer commercial, probably the best firefighter in the world.
07:53But the question is on payment, right?
07:55How will Ukraine pay for it?
07:57I mean, what discussions are there?
07:59Well, of course, we are still pushing forward from our Swedish perspective to unlock those Russian assets that have been kept since part of the world at the beginning of the full scale invasion and that we have held on increasingly since then.
08:16And that is still what we're pushing for to enable those deposits to be used also in the long term for these type of purchases that would rebuild Ukraine.
08:30So you're confident that you will get the payment for the sale of the 150 jets to Ukraine?
08:36Yes.
08:37And this is also because I believe in the long term commitment to Ukraine.
08:42This is our number one foreign policy priority is the long term support for the Ukraine people.
08:51That also entails the rebuilding of Ukraine and making sure that they have deterrence enough.
08:58And having a fleet of a 100 to 150 Joss Gripen would be a very good way of contributing to that deterrence, making sure Ukraine is not hit again.
09:11Deputy Prime Minister, people in Europe are watching the elections, the Dutch elections really closely.
09:19And there is a sense that there has been a pull away from the far right.
09:24Is that a sense you're getting as well?
09:27I think it's very difficult.
09:29I think it's very difficult to say.
09:31And in general, I would say the antidote to dangerous populism is not necessarily more populism, but it's public legitimacy.
09:40And I have an 10-year-old back home.
09:43My 10-year-old asked me, I'm not going to say what country we were talking about, but they asked me, why have this country elected a political leader that is not playing by the rules?
09:54And I said that, well, some of the political leaders that are playing by the rules, we failed at our job.
10:00So we need to find a way as a rules-based country, all of the countries that are rules-based, to actually make sure we get a win, do the job.
10:08And then I think tempo is of the essence.
10:11And if a rules-based country can pave the way and show it is possible to do this at a much higher speed, then public legitimacy will also increase.
10:21This is the reason why I've been pushing so hard on European leaders to do the homework on security, to do the homework on the mining sector and all of those metals and minerals that are needed.
10:32And thirdly, on the energy sector, make sure that it's not, you know, my budding rhetorics that is conveying in a sharp negotiation, but actually hard power in terms of our dependence and our sovereignty from other states with whom we do not share the same values.
10:53What is the biggest risk you see out there as the world shifts, as the new, as the global order shifts?
11:00I would say it is that democracies failed to – let's answer the question from this perspective.
11:12I'm worried that Europe managed not to build strong democracies, but rather huge bureaucracies.
11:19And this is the reason why we are seeing a decay in support for democracies if you look at value surveys among the younger generation.
11:29And then someone steps in and say, well, screw the rules, we're going to do it this way instead, and then show that it is possible to do it up to speed.
11:39Well, then that will also gain public support for that very reason.
11:44So this is why I'm concerned to make sure that we have long-term support for strong democratic values by showing you can stand by them and still get up to tempo and get the job done.
11:57That is the Swedish leadership that we are trying to contribute to with this.
12:04And, of course, there are some quite dark clouds on the skies.
12:07We need to show realistic hope, and then you need to be able to show deliverance on all of this rhetorics.
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