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Well Enough Episode 7: Hormones with Hannah Alderson and Zoe WilliamsSource: The Independent
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00:00What does the term hormone balancing actually mean? I have no idea. I think if somebody was
00:06saying that they were a hormone balancing coach, I would have to say, what do you mean by that? It
00:10could mean so many things. It's such a vague term. So it's definitely not a medically recognized
00:16term. I think what we really need to understand is there's a word called homeostasis and our
00:24bodies are very, very good at shifting, fine tuning, always in flux, making little adjustments
00:31to keep us in balance. You could call it balance to keep us in a stable state. So that's when it
00:39comes to our body temperature, pH, our hydration status, as well as our hormones. So in a healthy
00:45individual, all these little changes are happening. So our body gives us feedback through nerves,
00:50through sensors, through hormones, which are like little chemical messengers that travel
00:54around the body. And we stay in homeostasis. But when there's a disease state that affects
01:03our hormones, that's when you might end up with not enough of a particular hormone, too much
01:08of it, or a hormone that's not functioning the way it should. So medically, we're more
01:13likely to talk about suppressing hormones or replacing hormones or addressing the issue. Whilst
01:21it is a marketing term, a wellness term, hormone balancing isn't, it isn't really a thing.
01:29So our hormones probably don't need balancing or it's a case of understanding if they're out of
01:35balance, how to treat that? Yes. So if they're too, if there's too much of a hormone, too, not
01:39enough, or it's not working properly, we need to understand the reason why. What we can do is
01:44there's certain ways we can support our body and be healthy to help support this process of
01:48homeostasis and optimise it. I wonder, do you think this trend, especially as we see it on social
01:54media, do you think it's potentially taking advantage of our insecurities a little bit,
01:58perhaps stoking health anxiety a little bit? I think so. I think, you know, it's a great marketing
02:03ploy. And often we see there's so many now, aren't there, these sort of marketing terms out there,
02:08that if they have a supplement and they stick on it, will balance your hormones to give you energy.
02:13Well, which hormones? There's so many different ones. How is it going to balance them? How is it
02:17going to give you energy? And, you know, if you've got low energy levels, it could be linked to many
02:21of your different hormones or it could not be. So, yes. So I think it's one of those things we just
02:27need to be wary of and just consider before we spend our money. And in terms of that idea of this
02:32holy grail of what balance is, it's, there's no such thing as, you know, Dr. Zoe said, it's this
02:39very intricate dance that hormones do. And we are living, breathing things that are agile and
02:45they shift throughout our lifetime. And the idea that this one particular power door, this one thing
02:51is going to balance your hormones, as you say, which one? And actually what it's about is supporting
02:57the environment that your hormones are living in the best they can. So they can all individually
03:02and together optimally function and they can do their job properly. And that's what we're after. So
03:08it's actually not necessarily the hormones themselves we're balancing. It's the environment
03:13that they're living in through, you know, insulin sensitivity, inflammation, all these things. And I think
03:20the idea that we can balance them and that being peddled online, it's just one part of this picture
03:27which isn't actually correct. And it's very confusing. And then you've got people doing lots
03:33of things which might not be the most optimal thing. They could be restricting certain food groups,
03:39you know, over, you know, indulging on certain supplements, but they're not actually getting
03:44anywhere. They'd be best putting their money on just buying a bit more fruit and veg and going outside
03:48for a walk and having a good time with their friends. And I think it definitely is driving
03:54a massive amount of anxiety. And also the idea of metrics as well and using more metrics, measuring
04:03sleep, measuring glucose, and actually for a healthy individual, is that actually driving more anxiety?
04:09Do we actually need this data day in, day out? And it's really...
04:13Dr. Zoe looks at her garment and realises that her sleep last night was shocking.
04:16And it freaks out.
04:18But, you know, it's, you know, have you had a good night's sleep? Well, check in with how you're
04:23feeling. You don't necessarily... And so I think we're moving that direction even more with like
04:28finding out what's going on and the sort of metric side of things. That's also driving anxiety.
04:34Do you think it's leading people to self-diagnose a little bit as well? Because I wonder
04:37whether lots of women that don't necessarily have an endocrine disorder might think that they do
04:43because they're observing probably quite normal shifts if they're looking at the garment or the
04:47whoop, perhaps thinking, oh, this function in my body has been explained to me by this company.
04:52Yeah.
04:52But they've explained it as though it's something I should be concerned about or tracking when
04:56actually it's just a normal function.
04:57Well, that's right. Everything's meant to fluctuate. So we'll have different levels of certain hormones
05:02in the morning to what we do at night and throughout our menstrual cycle. And even from moment to moment,
05:08depending upon what we're doing, how we're feeling, if we're exercising, what we've eaten.
05:12And that's absolutely normal. In fact, some of those fluctuations, we would not be able to function
05:17without them. Like we get a cortisol burst in the morning, which wakes us up and gives us motivation
05:22and gets us going. We have a melatonin peak in the evening, which helps us sleep. So this idea of
05:28sort of regulating and leveling off and balancing and all these words actually don't really make sense
05:35anyway, when it comes to endocrinology.
05:38And the marketing, it's a bit like a horoscope, you know, when you read it and you're like,
05:40that applies to me. And it's like tired, anxious. And you're like, yeah, yeah, it must be this.
05:45And it's playing on those, I say, well, vulnerabilities. And for a lot of women, we are tired.
05:51The energy is on the floor, but it's when it moves over into a sort of different realm where
05:56your quality of life is really being impacted. And that's when you need to really seek help,
06:01go to your GP, get some blood tests done and, you know, working with, you know, qualified health
06:06practitioners to actually understand what's going on. But marketing is very, very clever.
06:12It's that sort of halo effect.
06:13And it is tricky. I think even for those of us in the know, to know where is that boundary where,
06:19okay, I'm feeling a bit tired. I can try some things myself, you know, maybe I should try this
06:23supplement or eating a bit better or moving a bit more or getting to bed a bit earlier.
06:27But at what point does that become, I need some help here, because this is pathological,
06:33this is potentially a disease state. And that's the really tricky bit, I guess, to understand
06:37where that line, I would say as a GP, if in doubt, we would rather see you sooner rather than later,
06:43because it might be that we can reassure you. It might be that we can just do a couple of tests
06:49to rule a few things out. Because sometimes endocrine disorders can have very subtle signs and
06:56symptoms, such as, you know, an underactive thyroid. For years and years, people might be having
07:01very low grade symptoms. But if you speak to a GP, and you're given this list, and we recognize this
07:07pattern of these symptoms, we might trigger in our thought, okay, let's just check your thyroid
07:11function. And if you are underactive or overactive, which can often have a lot of overlapping symptoms,
07:17that's something that's really important is treated and treated properly.
07:20Yeah, and sort of low vitamin D status, low iron status. And so people can be,
07:25in one hand, you have a lot of people living with something that they think is a normal when it's
07:30not, if in doubt, go and seek help. Yeah.
07:33How much should we know? What are the basics? Yeah.
07:36You know, is there something that kind of gives us a sense of what's normal and what's not? I guess
07:42these things are really hard to tap into, because not only are we all different, but there are gaps in
07:45our knowledge, aren't there? Certainly, when I was at school, I don't really think we got hormones 101.
07:51Our sex education wasn't that great.
07:53I don't think it is. It's not now.
07:55No, it's not better now.
07:56Like, you know, I've got young girls who come to my clinic, sort of, I specialize in polycystic
08:02ovarian syndrome, and the lack of education with hormonal health and all of those things,
08:08it's still a problem. I mean, we didn't, I didn't even really know what the word hormone was when
08:14we were at school. We never, I mean, and the word anxiety didn't exist. It was a different time.
08:18But I think the problem is still there. And that's why knowledge and having conversations
08:23like this, it's just so important.
08:26Look, fast forward to medical school, and, you know, maybe it's changed. It's quite a while
08:31since I was there. But even there, even in medical school, even in GP training, when it comes to,
08:37especially the women's health stuff, how much should we know? Well, I think it depends on the
08:43person. People just need to be aware that just about any symptom that you're having could
08:50potentially be linked to your hormones. And just bear that at the back of your mind. And if you're
08:55not feeling well, or something's not going right, or you've got an issue, and you're going to see
08:59your doctor, maybe just ask the question, could this be my hormones? Always have that, have that
09:04in your locker. Just always question, could it be your hormones? Because your doctor or your nurse
09:08actually might not think about it unless you say it.
09:11Yeah. And I think your body is constantly talking to you. It's always giving you signs and clues and
09:18things. So tuning in and really listening. And that's the issue with the whole metric thing. You
09:24know, have I had a glucose spike? And also glucose spikes are quite a normal thing. It's part of human
09:30design. Otherwise, insulin wouldn't exist. But it's the more I think we can tune in and listen more to
09:38our bodies. It's just going to be beneficial, not relying on, you know, metrics to do that or think,
09:44oh, I've got too much to do. Because preventative medicine and nutrition and all of those things is
09:51brilliant. And you don't want to go so far down the line where it's impacting your quality of life
09:56even more. So really tuning in and listening to those symptoms and what they could be.
10:02Presumably, that's why you wrote a book about this, to let us all know the basics and what we
10:07should be learning about. So tell us a little bit about the book and what it contains. Because I
10:10wish I'd had this when I was at school, moving through my teenage years. It's really, really useful.
10:16Yeah, absolutely. Well, it's a guide to transform your health with the sort of power of your hormones.
10:23And I talk about them like a superpower because it's, well, part memoir. I have my own issues with
10:29endometriosis and PCOS. It's part roadmap. But it's also a bit of a love letter to hormones because
10:35they get a really bad rap. And we're always blaming them. And there's such negative connotations.
10:41And I go about it in the book. But it's women, how we've kind of been conditioned throughout history
10:46to sort of demonize hormones and hysteria and all of that stuff. So actually, you meet all of the
10:52hormones, kind of like characters, like in a play, each one, what they do, how they function,
10:58and how incredible they are. Because when they work optimally, it's just so fascinating.
11:04And so it's understanding them and then actually understanding how they might sort of malfunction.
11:11So what are the things that could be driving them to not optimally work, whether that's the
11:16production, the transportation, the reception. So can they sort of deliver their messages,
11:20all the detoxification. So I go through all the things that could be driving it. And that could
11:27be underpinned just by natural shifts, puberty, pregnancy, you know, menopause, things that we
11:31don't, you know, want to stop and can't stop. So it could be a combination of all of those things.
11:37So it's what can drive them to sort of misbehave. And then my sort of six step plan of how to create
11:45an optimal environment for them to thrive. And at the core, insulin sensitivity, inflammation,
11:52sort of cortisol, stress, along with nutrients, sleep, movement, positivity, creativity, and it's
12:00never just one thing. It's not just about the food we eat. It's about all of these other things
12:06coming together. And if we create the right environment, we can turn the volume button down
12:11on certain symptoms and just let your hormones do their thing, which they can do so brilliantly.
12:17So it's very much about shedding that idea about wellness perfection.
12:22Maybe you can help us with this one, Dr. Zoe. What are some of the telltale signs that things
12:26might not be quite right, that your hormones might be out of whack? Because there are probably
12:29quite a few symptoms, right?
12:30I mean, it depends on the hormone that's out of whack. And I would say just about any symptom
12:36potentially could be. So I mean, I guess if we think about, yeah, if we think about, let's think
12:42about thyroid hormone, it can be underactive, it can be overactive. So you could have tiredness,
12:49you could have dry skin, you could have hyperactivity, you could feel hot all the time,
12:53cold all the time. There are certain, you could have a lump in your neck, a goiter, because your
12:58thyroid gland is actually growing to try and produce more. You could have eye symptoms where your
13:03eyes look like they're protruding. So, you know, that's just one hormone. I'm giving you a whole
13:06list and that's not even half of the list. If it's your sex hormones, so if you're a woman and it's
13:12your oestrogen and progesterone, like oestrogen, I don't know what your characters are because I
13:17haven't read your book yet, but you've just kindly given me one and I can't wait. But I always talk
13:21about oestrogens like superwoman.
13:23I love that. I call it the life hormone, but I love superwoman.
13:27Superwoman, you know, it makes you feel strong, powerful. When your oestrogen is high in your
13:32menstrual cycle, they've shown that you actually even walk with more swagger. You're more attracted
13:35to the other sex. So if your oestrogen levels are low, I mean, think menopause, when they're
13:40declining, you lose the superpower. Whereas progesterone, on the other hand, is a very
13:46calming, you're chilled out, you're like super chill and it can help, you know, help promote
13:51sleep. And so you can imagine that as that's declining, as you're sort of approaching menopause,
13:57that can make you feel the opposite. And that's why we get some people really struggle
14:02just before their period, because in that period of time, both are declining at the same
14:05time. So you're losing the superpower and the chill. So you can have, you know, over
14:1050 different symptoms. So again, I've, that's two hormones that can give you all those symptoms.
14:16So in your cycle, the most hormonal you are is when you feel your best.
14:20So actually, you know, when people say, yeah, people say, oh, look, she's hormonal.
14:24Actually, it's the opposite. It's when they're on the floor, actually.
14:27It's the opposite. So then thinking about cortisol. So you can have too much cortisol,
14:32Cushing syndrome, you can have not enough, you can have Addison's. The list is endless.
14:37So I think it's really difficult to say what symptom could be caused by your hormone without
14:42talking about a particular hormone and then listing the symptoms.
14:45And it's just about anything. Being hormone aware. And I think there's so, but how much
14:51is too much? I mean, I think for people who are interested, for people who are willing to
14:57make adaptations to their life or for people who've ever had any disorders linked to their
15:04hormones, reading Hannah's book is a great thing to do. But when I think about my typical
15:09patient, they wouldn't read that book. They wouldn't want that amount of knowledge. So what
15:14knowledge, it's really tricky because most doctors out there don't know all the information
15:19that's in your book. So what do people need to know? And it's such a big, complicated subject.
15:24You know, I'm a GP, but I don't know all of it. I'm not an endocrinologist. And I probably
15:29know quite a bit more than some other GPs because I've taken the effort because I talk, you know,
15:35in the public. I've made sure that I'm as up to date as I possibly can be. So it's such
15:40a huge subject. And, you know, there's over 50, 5-0 in the body, but there's a little VIP
15:47list. And it's sort of just knowing, you know, your sex hormones, your stress hormones, insulin,
15:53obviously the very important one.
15:56Serotonin, melatonin, oxytocin. And so there's a little VIP list. I sort of talk about it in
16:02the book, like it's a bit of a need to know basis. And otherwise it's so overwhelming and
16:08it's so vast. And there's so much we don't know.
16:12Growth hormone, leptine, ghrelin, prolactin.
16:14Yeah, ghrelin, you know, GLP-1, which has obviously got a lot more press recently.
16:17People are getting so into longevity now as well, aren't they? They're getting the full
16:20panel checked and freaking out thinking, something's low. And it's something they've
16:25never heard of before. And actually it is probably driving a little bit of anxiety where
16:30perhaps there needn't have been because they've been talking about that hormone before.
16:32It depends on the time of day. For example, I was saying earlier, certain, you know, if
16:36we're assessing somebody's cortisol level, you have to do it at a specific time of day.
16:42Instagram loves cortisol.
16:42Sort of like we do the cortisol awakening response. You have this love because cortisol
16:47gets such a bad rap.
16:49But we need it.
16:51We need it. It's such a motivator. It's, you know, we know that's why that idea of sleep
16:55on it. See how you feel in the morning. And in the morning when it peaks about 30 to sort
17:00of 40 minutes after waking up and it's the pattern of the cortisol awakening response and
17:05it peaks to take you from a state of sleep to alert. It's when you are, if everything's
17:10running optimally, you're most motivated, best time to do a to-do list, you're feeling
17:14on top of your game. And then it starts to sort of roll down. It sort of has a changing
17:19of the guards in the evening. And we have that surge of melatonin. But it's amazing and
17:25it gets such a bad rap. But if you're looking at your cortisol levels, you map them out
17:29throughout the day with a saliva test. And that's where you get a true picture of, is
17:32it blunted? Is it following the right pattern? So just doing it, it's like throwing a dart.
17:37If you were looking at estrogen or progesterone, where are you in your cycle? And I think sometimes,
17:43you know, functional testing is incredible. I do a lot of it in clinic. But sometimes if
17:48people are going out and buying tests online and they don't have a practitioner explaining
17:53the data, it can be really overwhelming. And it's that idea of just too much information,
18:00you know.
18:01And they all interact with each other. And, you know, you can test somebody's thyroid
18:05level and it could be normal, but that doesn't mean actually their thyroid function is normal.
18:10It's very, very complicated.
18:11Yeah, normal but not optimal is something we hear a lot. Tuning in and actually just seeing
18:15how you feel first is really, really important.
18:18And doing the things you can, which we're going to get on, I'm sure, and talk about to
18:22give your body the best chance of achieving homeostasis without any intervention.
18:27Well, let's talk a bit more about that. So do you have tips on what are the best ways
18:31for someone who is really looking to optimise their hormones? You know, what should they
18:34be doing?
18:35Well, I mean, I'll leave nutrition to Hannah, since that's your topic. I guess it's the pillars
18:41of lifestyle medicine. It's all of them. So if we think about sleep, our hormones are
18:47important in helping us get to sleep. We've mentioned melatonin. But also, if our sleep
18:52is poor, that can affect a whole collection of different hormones and how they function.
18:58It can affect our hunger hormones and make us more likely to overeat or crave certain foods.
19:02It can affect our sex hormones. So it can impact our levels of fertility or even feeding to other
19:09hormonal issues. It can affect our cortisol. So we might find that our cortisol is less able
19:16to behave appropriately in response to stress. So we might have this sort of grumbling higher
19:23level cortisol throughout the day than what is healthy for us. And that causes inflammation and
19:27other problems. It's not just about the amount of sleep. It's the different types of sleep as well.
19:31So when we go through deep, slow wave sleep, that's when we release more growth hormone that helps
19:37our bodies repair, helps us build muscle, which is really, really important.
19:40So there's sleep. I mean, exercise, which is always my hero topic, nutrition, exercise.
19:48When you exercise, when you do a workout, you pretty much immediately get this feel-good feeling
19:55because there's this amazing cocktail of chemicals that get released in your brain. So you get serotonin,
20:00which is the happy hormone. You get dopamine, the reward. You get oxytocin, the love hormone.
20:05You get noradrenaline, which helps you feel like super focused and more motivated. But also sort of
20:12longer term with exercise, you get better insulin sensitivity. Again, growth hormone, helping you
20:19build muscle. It helps regulate your appetite. So exercise is really important. And then that,
20:24the thing is, they all have a knock-on effect with each other as well. If you're exercising regularly,
20:28you're like to sleep better. And I made a decision last year that I wasn't going to stress anymore.
20:32I mean, I do, but I had a little thing that happened with my heart. My heart went into an
20:38abnormal rhythm. I now know that there wasn't a cause for it. It was just a purely chance thing.
20:44But at the time, before I knew that, I gave up alcohol, I gave up caffeine, and I gave up stress.
20:49And I just thought, it's just not worth it. So whilst I can't stop there being stress in my life,
20:53and there's a lot of very stressful things happening in the world right now, what I can do is take the
20:59active decision to not allow that stress, that psychological stress, to cause too much stress in
21:06my body. So I can break that cycle. So things like mindfulness, even just taking like literally 30
21:12seconds to stop and be in the moment. So the way I do it is I activate my senses. I'm like, what can I
21:19start on my feet? I can feel my feet in my shoes. I can feel my heart beating. I can hear like the hum in
21:24the background. I can see that bright light. I can see. So just go into my senses for 30 seconds,
21:29and it just takes you out of that fight or flight back into the parasympathetic. So whilst we can't
21:34eliminate stress from our life, we can stop that stress causing the stress response in the body.
21:40So the breath is probably the quickest way to bring yourself out of that sympathetic into the
21:47parasympathetic. But other things, you know, light exposure in the morning, people are raving about
21:52that at the moment, aren't they? Well, yeah, the full spectrum of light in the morning. And then toxins,
21:57you know, let's talk about alcohol. I shared with you earlier, I had a few glasses last night.
22:02I'm going to be having a few tonight. It's okay. You know, it's a toxin. It's not good for us. It's not
22:08good for our hormones, but also there are social benefits to alcohol. So for me last night, I was
22:12meeting some of the mums from the school that my son's going to go to. So for me, I think the net
22:16benefit, despite me feeling a bit not so sharp today, there was a net benefit. But there were
22:22a lot of toxins that we have choice over, but there are a lot of toxins. I don't know if this
22:26is something you like to talk about, sort of environmental toxins that have been introduced
22:30into our world over the past few decades that we don't have much control over.
22:34It's a huge trend, isn't it? At the moment on social media, low tox living, the idea that if we
22:39can remove some of those toxins, we might be able to stabilise our hormones a bit better,
22:44feel a bit healthier, I feel less sluggish. I mean, you're the expert on this.
22:48Yeah, I kind of have the four Ps. So it's sort of pesticides, plastics, products, but also
22:53people, because people can be really toxic too. I love that one. And actually some people
22:58are really like, you know, the energy vampires. So it's kind of protecting yourself. And the
23:04thing is with, it's not just one particular thing, but we know from research, when we talk
23:10about endocrine disruptors, these are chemicals that can mimic or block
23:14hormones and they can be found in certain plastics and microplastics are well and truly part of us
23:21now. We're seeing them for the first time in organs, placentas, human hearts. And so trying to reduce
23:27plastic exposure, washing your veg, doing all the things you can with, you know, if there's products
23:33in the home, making better choices, you can't do everything. I've still got, you know, I've got
23:38young children. I still have bleach in my house, but it's actually the sort of make best choices
23:43where you can. So for example, using, you know, glass to store your food, to use a stainless steel
23:50water bottle, really look at your products, look what's in them, do the best you can. That being
23:55said, I'm not giving up my Dipty perfume or my Dior mascara. And so you've got to give and take and
24:01sort of fight your battles where you can make good choices and reduce, you know, don't use
24:06cling film, use other, you know, there's lots of different things you can do. And protect your own
24:11energy. As I say, people, like the stress that some people can cause you. It's catching, isn't it?
24:17You know, sometimes you can enter, you know, like on the tube, for example, everyone's really wound up
24:22and they just want to shove and have a go at each other. And you think, oh, I've stepped into an energy
24:26situation that I do not want to be in right now. Yeah. I was quite calm before. Yeah. It's like
24:31setting boundaries, you know, all of that sort of taking plastic out of your home. It's as important
24:36to set boundaries, say no to stuff. If you're, you know, you can't be everything to everyone all the
24:43time. And that can, of course, have an impact on your hormones. I think there's a fixation that
24:49it's just products. It's just diet. It's just, you know, those typical toxins.
24:55Think of the physical things, don't we, that go into our body. Yeah, but it's actually energetically.
24:59There's a really good book, actually, book recommendation, Energy Rules.
25:03Oh, nice. And it's like, I think Energy Vampires is one of the chapters.
25:07Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah. It's how to protect and look after your own energy and protect yourself
25:12because you can't always avoid energy vampires. Exactly.
25:16You can have strategies to protect yourself. And that's why I think these conversations are
25:20really important. We've covered so many great tips and I'll talk a little bit about nutrition,
25:24but it's never just one thing. It's this perfect storm that comes together. Just like a perfect
25:31storm can come together. Genetics plays a huge role with hormones. We know with conditions like
25:36PCOS, it's more typical family clusters. You either get dealt a hand or you don't, but then
25:42environmental sort of a coming together of all those things and nutrient deficiencies, your gut
25:47microbiome, your circadian rhythm, your insulin sensitivity, sort of inflammation, stress play a
25:53massive role. But it's so many things. And so when it comes to diet, really nice, simple things.
25:59First things first, regulate your blood sugar. Incident resistance is one of the biggest driving
26:05forces of endocrine disorders. It really impacts the mechanism, the transportation system for your
26:11hormones, your sex hormone binding goblins. And when they're low, it's like, imagine buses going down
26:17Oxford Street. When they're low, it's all these hormones waiting to hop on. It's like this tube
26:22strike is a backlog and we can get excess testosterone. And that's why it's such a big
26:27mechanism with PCOS. So when we talk about working on your insulin sensitivity, insulin resistance is
26:34when you've kind of built up a tolerance to insulin, which is an amazing hormone. When we build up a
26:39tolerance, we need more and more of it to sort of get its job done. So if we can try and keep your
26:46blood sugar regulated, so having low glycemic index foods, always ask yourself the question,
26:52where is the protein when I eat? And trying to keep your blood sugar steady is where I start with
26:57nearly every single client. And fiber as well. And fiber. And so talking, yeah, and fiber from a gut
27:05perspective, the gut plays a huge, we're understanding more of it, but particularly estrogen and something
27:12called the estrobolome. It's like a constellation of bacteria that are really involved with the
27:16metabolism of estrogen. It is so important. We feed that good gut bacteria. And so actually
27:23fiber should kind of be its own macronutrient. It's so important. Beans, legumes, roughage,
27:29you know, beautiful colors. So I have sort of the pillars of the book, balance your blood sugar. And then
27:36the next is eat colorful. And that's all about fibrous. And it's also food. It's about falling
27:41back in love with food again. Yeah. I grew up in, you know, the late nineties, early noughties. It
27:46tried to take two things away from me, my eyebrows and my love of my love of food. You know, I was,
27:53you know, unfortunately, the one thing I got back was my love of food. My eyebrows have never gone back.
27:59But it was the fashion then, but the diet industry and my obsession was sort of just about,
28:05can I shrink myself? It was so hard with PCOS. And actually it was like, how little could I eat in a
28:10day to get through and all those things and diet culture of, you know, it's not to do with calories
28:16either. It's useful in some scenarios, but it's the color, the nutrients, you know, having fun with
28:22food again. It's the very journey that can help your body function better. And the functionality of
28:28vitamins and minerals, it's like a relay race in the body. We have all these pathways and the
28:33nutrients and co-factors, they like hand the baton to the next person and the next person.
28:37And even something as simple as vitamin D status is so involved in the pathogenesis of PCOS. And so
28:46eating colorful for all the lovely nutrients, phytoestrogens, antioxidants, and then eating smart
28:52strategically to support the gut, the liver, which is really, really important. And those mechanisms
28:59that are really involved because the liver, which is like the body's laboratory when it comes to
29:04hormones, when sort of we detoxify hormones, if that's not working optimally, it can be a big driver
29:11where we see excess hormones. And so eating smart in that way. So eating smart, eating colorful,
29:17balancing your blood sugar, beautiful ways. And it doesn't have to be complicated, but eating
29:22breakfast for a woman is really, really important. So as opposed to wake up fast, coffee, maybe do a
29:32workout, then breakfast, wake up, breakfast, then have your coffee and then work out. That's sort of
29:39the order because we want to keep, you know, we don't want to stress the body out in the morning and
29:43take away that fuel. And we want to, how we set ourselves up in the day in terms of blood sugar
29:48regulation can then really impact decisions we make later in the day, more sweet cravings and
29:53things like that. So that's why with clients, I often start with just breakfast for even, you know,
30:00three weeks that we work on. So you don't have to do everything all at once either. Take your time
30:05and start with breakfast and weave lots of lovely things in.
30:07I really love that. I'm hearing this more and more now, this narrative of often when I explain
30:13it to people for decades, women say, I shouldn't have this. I shouldn't have that. I shouldn't have
30:18this. Two, my body deserves, my body needs, my body should have. And it's focusing first on the
30:25things that we want to put into our body, but also having a little bit of what we love and enjoy.
30:30Yeah.
30:30And actually, if you put all the fiber and fruit and veg and like healthy fats and proteins in,
30:35you don't leave that much, but you probably don't want to eat all that much of the stuff that you
30:40really, really love. You can eat more in there.
30:42Where we do see sort of overindulgences to say ultra processed food and sweet cravings,
30:47so much has placed the blame or willpower, but it's not your body is that one of the cleverest thing
30:54on this human planet. And it's not interested in, you know, in you getting into your summer outfits.
31:00It's literally interested in your survival. Your body is hardwired to survive. And so if we're on
31:06a rollercoaster ride of too many blood glucose spikes, your body, when it dips, your brain will
31:12go and make you find some. And so that idea of, you know, I have a phrase of any diet that's ever
31:17made you feel like you're a failure has failed you. And that idea of restriction and all those
31:22things, it's shifting, um, where we have so much more positivity around food and, but it's not about
31:30being perfect. You know, I still drink wine, eat pizza, and it's part of, you know, the, you know,
31:35breaking bread and the joy that food brings is a really important factor. It brings people together,
31:41which makes you feel happy, which brings oxytocin, which can lower cortisol. And then,
31:47so it's a little bit of everything. We have to sprinkle realism and shifting away from perfection
31:53because that does not exist at all. Um, it's great to know though, that food is something that
31:59is easy to come by, easy to prepare, easy to consume, and it can help you. You know,
32:04it can put you in a state where your hormones are happier, which is great. But I did want to ask you
32:09about supplements because I have so many bottles with hormone balancing on my desk. And a lot of
32:18these contain specific ingredients like myaminosetol and berberine and things like that.
32:23And for the average person, you might think, oh, well, I can't possibly get that from my diet because
32:27I've never heard of it before, but can it be found in food? Do we need to be taking these supplements?
32:33Can they help as a nutritionist? Is that something that you'd recommend or is it really dependent on the
32:37person? Well, it's always food first and think of something. So at the end of the day, if we think
32:42of nutritional therapy, it's taking nutrients at a therapeutic dose for a positive outcome.
32:49And in some instances, there could be a bodily system, which is under stress and it needs a helping
32:54hand with berberine and myaminosetol. That's very much to do with the mechanism of insulin sensitivity
33:00in the same way metformin from a medical perspective can be really helpful. They're not rivals.
33:05They all work on slightly different things. Myaminosetol is if we think of insulin like
33:10a lock in a key, it's a bit like putting oil on the lock in a key, but it's a sugar. So
33:14you can't sort of find it in the diet, but it's really well tolerated. You just put it
33:18into water. I still take it because I have PCOS and very well tolerated. Not really many
33:24side effects. Metformin can be really brilliant. It works on a slightly different mechanism.
33:30It sort of works on the liver sort of reining in glucose a little bit, but it can have a
33:36few more side effects, but they can work as a team. I have clients who are on both. But
33:42when it comes to berberine, that is a plant compound. Originally in Chinese medicine, it
33:49was for gut work. So it's like an antimicrobial, but it's really good for blood sugar balance.
33:53It can stimulate and sort of turn the volume up of GLP-1 a little bit in the gut. So if
34:00we had an individual who had a sort of insulin resistance driven hormonal disorder, absolutely
34:08berberine and minosetol could be a really lovely adjunction to diet and all the other stuff
34:15to help create an environment where we turn the volume button down on symptoms. But if you
34:21had a hormonal issue, which had nothing to do with insulin resistance, there's not much
34:25point in you taking it. So you have to know the root cause of what you're working with
34:29and just hormone balancing.
34:32Buying some gummies on the internet probably a lot.
34:34Yeah. I mean, and the thing is, supplements are very useful in clinic, but you know, you
34:39don't want to be rattling around with a thousand different things and often it's short. So you're
34:44on supplements for a short time and then you sort of end up going down just to potentially
34:48a good vitamin D, a good multivitamin. But if you're looking at really good supplements
34:54that can be useful, it's if that person's deficient, putting vitamin D on top of someone
34:59who's got vitamin D is no point. And, you know, although it's quite hard to get toxic
35:04levels of vitamin D, it is a fat soluble vitamin D. So you can. So it's, where's the starting
35:10line? You know, it's about topping up. So think of it like an overdraft at a bank. If you're
35:14in the red, that's when it's going to be really helpful. But if you're all swimming
35:19and you've got some savings, you know, you don't need to. And then you could end up having
35:23this really expensive wee.
35:25That's what I was about to say. Are we just flushing it all out?
35:27You know, they're not cheap, but you know, there is a place for them. I use them in clinic,
35:31you know, and probiotics are brilliant, but you know, there are billions, trillions of
35:36different strains. And so if you just willy nilly take a probiotic, what strain are you
35:41taking? Is it, are we working on helping the vagina microbiome? Are we working on what
35:46strains? Cause they're like seeds you plant into the gut and then we want that sort of
35:51particular bacteria to multiply, but they all have different, you know, one might be completely
35:56irrelevant to actually what we're trying to do. I have clients who come and be like, I'm
36:01on this brand, which is quite expensive. And I was like, well, actually, if you look at
36:05the ingredients, there's no research to back up that they would be particularly good for
36:09endometriosis, they're not going to really do any harm, but these are the strains, for
36:12example. So you've got to really look at the intricacies. And there's a lot of, like
36:19we've said before, like the marketing side of things, you know, the holy grail of this
36:23powder will balance your hormones. I mean, that's just not true.
36:27Yeah. And we're living in a world of fake reviews now as well. We used to think that
36:31consumer reviews were the way to tell, but now a lot of them are not real.
36:34Yeah. And because with supplements, they only have to follow the laws of the Food Standards
36:39Agency. So, you know, they, you can get really, you can get really shoddy. I mean, there was
36:44one in the news just this week.
36:46Oh yes, for the melatonin, in the kiddie one.
36:48Which was a kiddie's magnesium supplement that actually contained melatonin.
36:52Like twice the dose of, which would be regulated for an adult or something crazy.
36:56Was it? So you do have to, I think you do have to be careful. And I have had a patient
37:00with vitamin D toxicity because they would take it. It's doable. I mean, you need to
37:04take, I believe, 10 times. So the government recommends that we take 10 micrograms per
37:08day in the UK because in the winter months, the sun doesn't get high enough in the sky
37:13for us to make enough. But it's easy. It can happen that if you're taking a vitamin,
37:17you know, extra strength vitamin D supplement and you're taking a, say a cod liver oil that's
37:22got vitamin D and a multi that's got vitamin D and you're taking a menopause supplement
37:26that they've added vitamin D into. And then you take something for hair and nails and
37:30they've added that. It can happen that you can end up taking toxic doses. I take four
37:34supplements and people say, what do you take? I'm like, well, I'll take vitamin D. I take
37:38a multivitamin because why not? You know, it's cheap. It's very, very cheap. And on some
37:43days, you know, it won't do me any harm. And the other two are absolutely not in your business
37:47because they're for me because of my needs and my wants and my dietary routine, et cetera.
37:55So it's actually completely irrelevant to you. I worry about toxicity a little bit because
38:00obviously part of my job is testing all of the supplements. So I have to be really,
38:04really careful and I have to check in with GPs and nutritionists to make sure that I am
38:08being healthy, taking, you know, the highest grade, that I'm not doubling up too much,
38:13that I'm not paying for expensive wee and just making sure that...
38:16You see, like, I call it the Frankenstein supplement plan and it's sort of a hodgepodge
38:20dolly mix of all these different things. And you're like, right, okay, we're stripping it back
38:25because it's the... And also a lot of medications can be, you know, contraindicated, you know,
38:30people on blood thinners can't take omega-3, you know, it's like the Wild West. And the thing is,
38:36all of this stuff, it's coming from a good place and people are taking supplements and it's
38:40because they're wanting the best outcome for their health. And unfortunately, without the knowledge
38:45of knowing how things might interact, if they're contraindicated, or there's going to be a toxicity
38:49level, if you're adding that onto that onto that, it's really hard to navigate, you know,
38:54people don't teach you this stuff. So it's so easily done. There's so much stuff you can do
38:58with food. And even, you know, a really great way of looking at a therapeutic dose of things is herbal
39:04tea. You know, green tea is one of the best things you can drink for lowering testosterone and
39:12things like PCOS for actually really working on regulating cortisol. It's got L-theanine in it.
39:17It delivers caffeine in a very different way to coffee. And three cups a day is the equivalent
39:23of like a therapeutic dose.
39:25So good news for those obsessed with their matcha at the moment.
39:28Yeah. Love a matcha. Like, and it's really, you know, matcha is having its moment. It looks
39:32pretty. But then if you're putting it in like a strawberry vanilla latte...
39:36Maybe not as effective, yeah.
39:38And going back to that living to a hundred, you know, the Japanese are up there in terms
39:42of how many centenarians they have.
39:43Yeah, matcha, phytoestrogens, you know, they know what they're doing with their edamame
39:48beans. So good to have, you know, it's little things. Eggs, so good. You know, just, you
39:55know, good fish, vegetables, apples, you know, all these lovely things. It doesn't have to
40:00be overexpensive. And for anyone who thinks that it's, you know, too expensive to eat
40:05healthily, you know, the freezer is your friend. Rose and berries, it's the biggest hack. Like,
40:11they go off so quickly and so easy to throw into things. And I chuck mine in the microwave
40:17in a mug, they defrost and I pour over, you know, yogurt. Super easy.
40:22Yeah. Some of the recommendations I think, because you know, we're meant to get 30 plant
40:25points a week now, aren't we? Which can feel really overwhelming to some people. But I often
40:29say it's about making, you know, if you do a weekly shop, if you switch out your kidney
40:33beans for mixed beans, you've gone from one to five species. If you switch out your cashew
40:37nuts for a bag of mixed nuts, you've gone from one to five different plant species.
40:41So it's making those simple swaps. You know, if you switch different tack, but your white
40:46rice to brown rice, if you're a family that eats rice several times a week, over the course
40:50of your life, these switches, which cost nothing. And once you've made a decision to change
40:55it, you just stick to it over the course of your life, make a big difference.
40:58Good tips for getting more in. I think that's a good takeaway.
41:02Beans, beans, beans, legumes, legumes. Good for your heart, the more you eat, the more
41:05you, the longer you live. But there's, you know, when we look at longitudinal studies
41:11and longevity, actually out sort of performing Mediterranean diets, high fiber diet.
41:17It's less than one in 10 people, isn't it?
41:18Yeah, it's crazy.
41:19Get the 30 grams a day that we need.
41:20You know, seeded bread and good quality, you know, sourdough. Looking at, as I say, I'll
41:26hop it again, the beans and legumes, because it's a really cost effective way of getting
41:30in really good carbohydrates, but they're also a source of protein. And so throwing them
41:34into salads.
41:35And sprinkling seeds, because you've got really healthy fats in there.
41:38Yeah, pumpkin seeds are the win with the zinc.
41:40If you've got children, if you're baking cakes, whatever, sprinkle some seeds into
41:44everything.
41:45Yeah.
41:45We just seeds all over everything.
41:47And as we're sort of getting into soup season, seasonally, like a really good hack is the butter
41:53bean. So obviously we love a creamy soup, but if you get a soup that you're going to whiz,
41:59watercress or butternut squash and you're whizzing it up, if you put butter beans, drain them,
42:05whizz them up, adds the creaminess, loveliness, texture, super creamy.
42:10And then you're just upping the fiber, phytoestrogens, protein, a bit of carb.
42:15So add beans to your soups, people.
42:18Stunning. You're making me hungry.
42:19Anyway, one thing from today.
42:21Beans.
42:23Hormones.
42:24Hormones and beans.
42:25Well, they're cheap as well. I love that because they're so cheap as well.
42:27Yeah, yeah, yeah.
42:28Beans are great advice because it's accessible for everybody, but increase them gradually.
42:32Don't go from zero to hero because you might get a bit uncomfortable.
42:35So when it comes to anyone who finds it really tricky with beans, it's often if your gut isn't
42:42used to having them. A good trick, if you're using dried, like red lentils, soaking them
42:48overnight and giving them a really good wash, it sort of starts that digestion process a
42:51little bit. And so picking tinned or soaking overnight as opposed to dry that you're cooking
42:58right away. But go easy because, yeah, build it gradually, isn't it?
43:02Build it gradually.
43:03Don't go nuts to ten.
43:03Those gut bugs might just go a bit crazy.
43:07The next topic I want to ask you both about is this conversation about the pill because
43:13it's obviously one of the most prescribed medications when it comes to hormones. It's
43:19given out, you know, quite freely to help people with hormonal imbalances, endocrine disorders,
43:24et cetera. But it's also the subject of huge debate at the moment because lots of people
43:28are deciding that they don't want to take it anymore. And that a lot of that is to do
43:32with wellness influences, you know, funny marketing, lots of different people talking about ancestral
43:38diet and ancestral lifestyle. And we never used to take this. We never used to have hormonal
43:42problems. But I wonder what your view is on that, because obviously the pill has been
43:48incredible in terms of economic freedoms, giving women choice, giving women bodily autonomy.
43:53You know, this tiny little thing has had such a huge impact on us. And yet it is the center
43:58of so many conversations about hormones.
44:01I actually made a BBC documentary, a Horizon documentary about this very topic a few years
44:07ago. And for myself and the producers and the directors, our brief was very much, we want
44:15to take a really critical look at the pill. We want to rip it to pieces. We want to tear it apart.
44:20And we want to say at the end, this is why nobody should take the pill. And with that intention going
44:25into it, we couldn't do that. I mean, there are some definitely some caveats, but, you know,
44:31you look at all the meta-analyses, you look at all the studies, you look at everything that we
44:35researched. We went to different countries and, you know, we even went, there are some studies
44:38that link the pill to suicide and they're all legit. But overall, the evaluation was that for
44:46the majority of women who choose to use the pill as a method of contraception or as a treatment for
44:51some certain conditions, it is safe and effective. The big caveat was that women should absolutely
45:00100% know their range of options and make an informed choice. If it's the right choice for them,
45:07they should be very, very aware of any symptoms that they get, should absolutely keep a symptom
45:12diary and should not feel that they should put up with or tolerate any symptoms that they get as a
45:17result of taking it because there are lots of other options. And I think certainly with, you know,
45:24diseases like PCOS and endometriosis as well, there's an additional knowledge that women need to
45:32have that, you know, this isn't going to treat your condition. It can, it's a great symptom reliever.
45:36And in endometriosis, you know, alongside, say for example, surgery, studies show it can reduce
45:43recurrence or reduce symptoms or even reduce severity of endometriosis after that. But on its
45:48own, it's not the panacea of treatment. It's that it shouldn't be called necessarily treatment of those
45:52conditions. It's treatment of the symptoms of those conditions. So there are lots of caveats, but
45:57of course, as well, there's the increase in risk of breast cancer from taking the pill,
46:03which is negated by the decrease in risk of endometrial ovarian and colorectal cancer. So
46:09overall, there's no increased risk of cancer. But if you're somebody who already has an increased risk
46:14for some other reason of breast cancer, then it's important to be aware, increased risk of getting
46:18a blood clot, again, very small increased risk. But if you already have other risk factors,
46:23similarly with strokes and heart disease. So people need to have all of the information
46:29information so that they can weigh up the risks and the benefits for them. And in the majority of
46:34cases, if women choose to take the contraceptive pill with the information, it's deemed safe and
46:39effective. And it's one of those things as well, where there is so much more information now than
46:43there was, right? I mean, there's a brilliant platform called The Lowdown, where you can go and
46:48you can compare, you know, one type of hormonal contraception with others, you can speak to a whole
46:53community of women who have shared their experiences, talked about their symptoms, talked about any side
46:57effects. So we never had that before. That's really, really useful.
47:00Everybody has a right to have an opinion. And everybody has a right to share information. But
47:10to the people who are taking on board that information, you just you just have to be
47:15sensible in how you weight it. So you know, if you have a professor of gynaecology, who's talking
47:21about endometriosis, who's well respected and has done studies, and this has been his life,
47:27and he's giving advice, versus somebody who is, I don't know, a chef, but has had a bad
47:33experience, and they're giving their advice, just, you know, accordingly weight what you're
47:38taking on board. And don't think because this one person had a bad experience, that means
47:42that the pill should be banned.
47:43We've got a lot of kind of anecdotal versus expert at the moment, haven't we, in the idea
47:47that experts are less trusted, especially in digital spaces like social media. And I
47:52think a lot of that does create a lot of fear in people because they think, oh, well, you've
47:55had a bad experience. And therefore you saying this is poison, that must be true. We can't
48:01necessarily make those leaps, can we, especially when it's our health on the line?
48:04Well, statistics can be really scary as well. So when we made this documentary, there was a
48:09young girl who wanted to take the pill, but her mum had died of breast cancer, so she
48:15was scared. And she'd heard the statistic that taking the pill increases your risk of
48:19breast cancer by 20%, which is correct. And that sounds scary. So we went to visit a professor
48:25who does these studies, and he explained to her what that means in absolute terms, is if
48:30you've got 100,000 women in this building between the ages of 15 and 39, and they don't take
48:37the pill, around 55 of them will get breast cancer in a year. If you then take 100,000
48:42women and put them in this building and you give them all the pill, same age group, then
48:46an additional 13 will get breast cancer. So even though 20% sounds like a lot, you've got
48:54100,000 women and it's 13 more. So it's actually a small increased risk, which also when you consider
49:02that it reduces your risk of three other types of cancer. So overall, there's no net increase
49:07of cancer. For her, when the information was presented in that way, she felt much more confident
49:12to make that decision. And she did decide to go on the pill. But yeah, the media sometimes
49:16doesn't help because at the end of the day, newspapers or online, they want to sell, they
49:21want people to read it. So the more scary they can make it sound, that's what they tend to
49:26do. And I think there's also, it's been such a popularity versus expert. And that's what
49:32people are missing the trick, because actually popularity doesn't mean expertise. But I'm
49:38sure that people who aren't necessarily, say, qualified giving out advice, it's coming from
49:44a good place, one would hope. And for some young girls and women, they might feel lost, they
49:51might not have been heard or brushed off. And it's actually the only place they have to
49:55turn. So it's a complex topic. But you have to have your wits about you. And anecdotal,
50:02if it's worked for one person, an individual case doesn't mean it's going to work for you.
50:06And particularly with the pill. And the thing is with the pill and say PCOS, it can be so
50:12brilliant, particularly for young girls, it just taking the edge off the symptoms, but you
50:17need to do the work in terms of root cause through diet, lifestyle, nutrition. And because
50:24you're going to come off the pill at one point, and all those symptoms will come back. In some
50:29cases, the volume button might be turned up because the pill can impact zinc, selenium, magnesium,
50:36the gut microbiome. So there was actually a study which came out in June looking at PCOS individuals
50:43who were both two sort of groups put on the combined pill and the control group just on
50:51the combined pill and the experimental group, the combined pill plus vitamin D and nutrient
50:56sort of intervention, both saw improvements. But the one with nutrition and vitamin C saw a lot
51:03more improvements in markers like glucose, metabolism, BMI, all those things. It's about
51:09integrative medicine and bringing in all the things and what suits that individual. I have
51:15clients who are on the pill. I have clients who are on metformin and on GLP-1s, but you
51:20can still integrate amazing medication whilst doing your holistic approach at the same time.
51:27And I think there's this, you know, I'm all natural. I'm only doing it this way. And actually
51:32there's so many options and it's about picking the right thing for you. The thing is with the
51:37pill, that's not going to get down to the root cause and solve the syndrome of what's driving
51:42it. It's a bit like a plaster, but it can just, when something's affecting someone's
51:48quality of life so much, it can just take the burden off. And then also they might want
51:52contraception at that time. So it's a win-win, but you've got to do the groundwork. What can
51:57be tricky is you're not going to get a true picture of what's going on. So the cycle or the
52:02symptoms, so are we on the right line with certain things?
52:07I've known of cases, and I totally get it, of women where, particularly with endometriosis,
52:13they've been given the pill and it's masked the symptoms and they're happy and they go
52:16about their life. And then several years later, they want to try for a baby. And because they've
52:22been taking the pill, it's blunted their awareness that the endometriosis has been progressing
52:27and, you know, has maybe affected their ovaries and fallopian tubes. And now they've found
52:30themselves in a situation where their fertility is affected and they're, they're raging because
52:35nobody told them. And, you know, had they not taken the pill, the symptoms would have
52:40given them, and it might have been that they'd have frozen their eggs when they were younger,
52:43or they might have gone up and go to seek help sooner.
52:45They might have had surgery or other treatments. So, um, so I get it. So there are some people
52:50that they absolutely have a right to be talking about it and raising awareness. And I think whilst
52:55there may be some influencers who have a different, very different opinion to me on some of these
52:59things, I think what's helpful. And what I would say to people is if you're seeing this
53:03and it's frightening you and you're thinking, I'm just going to stop taking the pill because
53:06of this, use that to form a question list, all those concerns, let them form the questions
53:11that you then take to the healthcare professional that you trust. And I know with GPs, people don't
53:16always have a great experience. Um, but if you do have somebody that you trust, or, you
53:21know, if you can see somebody privately or, you know, if things are really, really tricky,
53:25particularly if you do have a diagnosed condition or you suspect you have an undiagnosed condition
53:30as to be referred to a specialist.
53:31And it's the, it's communication. So it's, has that individual been told, well, take this
53:37and it will solve it because then you're under the impression, oh, it's solving it. And then
53:41it's gone and you're like, what, what's going on? Um, so it's about understanding what's the
53:47mechanism. So what is that doing? And it's actually, you know, it's mimicking a shutdown where
53:52those volume buttons might be down. And I'm talking about PCOS in that particular instance,
53:57um, and with endometriosis. So I got the double whammy stage four endo and PCOS and it's, I
54:04didn't just do it through diet. I had to have surgery. And I talk about that, you know, and
54:08anyone who says just come, you know, it's the charlatans who may say, just cut out red
54:13meat. We'll get rid of your endo and drink green tea. It doesn't work like that. If I didn't
54:17have, you know, the invasive surgery I had to have, I doubt I would have my children.
54:22And so you have to, it's about bringing in all the amazing medical advances and then
54:29bringing it in with all the other things we know. And we know even more now than we did
54:33about the gut and nutrition and particularly with fertility, the vagina microbiome. So it's,
54:40you don't get any medals for trying to do things all naturally. It's like birth, like, you know,
54:44do what's right for you, you know?
54:47It's the same with HRT, isn't it?
54:48Yeah, it's exactly the same.
54:49I believe that lifestyle interventions for managing perimenopause and menopause are for
54:54everybody. That doesn't mean you don't take HRT. Some people, HRT will be right for them,
54:58some people it won't. But whether you're taking HRT or not, the lifestyle changes you can make
55:03are really important.
55:05Absolutely. And it's so personal, isn't it? I mean, none of us are exactly the same.
55:09And we all have different lives, different bodies, different stuff going on with us. But as you say,
55:15there's no quick fix. There's no hack. It's about knowing what works for you.
55:19And I do think...
55:20If only there was, the magic wand.
55:21I know, right? We could wave it.
55:22There's a good book.
55:22We wouldn't need to do this podcast.
55:23There is a good book.
55:26But yeah, it's about, you know, real change takes time. And also, as we mentioned right at the
55:32beginning, you change throughout your life. And your hormones change naturally. And you're not
55:38trying to stop that. So the things and systems you need to really sort of walk on eggshells as you
55:45get older, insulin sensitivity, bone density, you know, all those things. It gets hard, you know,
55:52we get dealt pretty bad hand as women. And all those mechanisms that can drive hormonal dysfunction,
55:57they get impacted by the drop of sex hormones. So you've got to work even harder.
56:02On those areas. Our risk factor for diabetes is so much greater than men.
56:08And it's even like just maintaining, I'm fighting. I've always been very strong and I'm fighting
56:12right now to cling on to any muscle that I have.
56:14Yeah, muscle mass. So important.
56:17It gets harder. So whilst you're young and it's easy, make the most of it.
56:22Make the most if you don't have kidneys.
56:24And take all of these fantastic tips as you age, you know, small changes, like doable things.
56:29It's, you know, it's great to be in this chair and to learn so much from you both on what we can
56:33actually do to support our hormones. And on tips as well. We're nearing the end of the podcast,
56:39but I always like to finish by asking my guests for their one wellness non-negotiable. So probably
56:45quite hard to pick just one for both of you. But what would be your one tip that you could give
56:49on or your one thing that you love that keeps you well?
56:53I mean, the one thing I love is lifting heavy weights in the gym. It just makes me feel like
56:57me, but I've had a back issue and I've been struggling. But I think, I think my one non-negotiable,
57:03it comes back to that stress. I learned a very valuable lesson when I had an issue with my heart
57:08last year and it's stress less. We've got so many epidemics going on. We've got an obesity epidemic,
57:14but I think the stress epidemic that we have, the way our lives, we live our lives now and the way
57:20we're subjected to stress constantly is possibly the most important lifestyle risk factor. So stress
57:28less. We are pretty strung out, aren't we? I think as a society. I think young people, when we were
57:34talking about social interactions and how we're actually less connected than ever before for young
57:40people, that's multiplied, you know, 10 times over. So it's, that's my concern is stress.
57:46Yeah. That's a good tip. What about you, Hannah?
57:48Do more fun things and eat breakfast. I think eating breakfast, if I could have two,
57:54maybe put on some really amazing disco music and then just enjoy. But eating breakfast,
57:59I think is a really, really important. It's a really simple start to a wellness journey of what
58:05you're having. But as a woman, we want to ensure ideally within 90 minutes of waking up,
58:10you have something to eat.
58:12It's a fantastic, fantastic advice. And also on the disco music. I love that.
58:16Yes.
58:17Always here for the disco.
58:18Or German bass, whatever you vibe.
58:20Yeah.
58:20Whatever you're into, turn it on. Well, thank you so much to you both for joining me and for
58:25all the incredible tips.
58:26I've learned so much today. If you are interested in reading Hannah's book,
58:31Everything I Know About Hormones, it is available at all good bookshops and online.
58:34If you want to seek out Dr. Zoe, you can find her on your television screens from This Morning
58:39and Loose Doctors. You can also find her book online. Thank you for joining us for this episode
58:44of Well Enough. We will see you next time. And in the meantime, stay well.
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