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The Celebrity Traitors: Uncloaked - Season 1 Episode 7
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00:00Hello there and welcome to the Celebrity Traitors Uncloaked, the official visualized podcast hosted by me, Ed Gamble.
00:06Now before I say anything else, this episode is stuffed to the gills with spoilers.
00:10So if you haven't watched the latest episode of the Celebrity Traitors, then get yourself onto BBC iPlayer and do that right now.
00:16Now that I've got that over with, I can finally play this noise.
00:20No, not that one.
00:21This one.
00:25Yes, they finally caught their very first traitor.
00:28Having weathered several storms of suspicion, the game finally caught up with Jonathan Ross and the faithful banished him at the round table.
00:35So what's coming up in tonight's episode?
00:38Murdered faithful Lucy Bomer will be joining us from beyond the grave.
00:42Jonathan Ross returns from the banishment to talk about his time in the Traitors' Turret.
00:46Plus, Series 1 Traitor Wilf and Series 3 Traitor Mina will be offering their expert insight into the game so far.
00:58Well, thank you all so much for joining me on Uncloaked.
01:00I'm very excited that I'm joined by not one, not two, but three horrible traitors.
01:06Wilf, Mina and Jonathan Ross, of course.
01:10When you say horrible, you mean because we didn't get to the end?
01:14It's a double meaning.
01:16Bad, traitor.
01:17Horrible at being a traitor.
01:18Useless.
01:18Three useless traitors.
01:19He wouldn't have said that to Harry, was he?
01:22No, he wouldn't have said that to Harry.
01:23No way.
01:24Harry scares me.
01:26Jonathan, welcome.
01:27Welcome to Uncloaked.
01:28How does it feel now that the celebrity traitors is out in the world, people are seeing what's happening?
01:33It's interesting.
01:33I mean, it's strange.
01:35It's like most things to do with traitors.
01:37I don't think you can predict how it's going to feel at any stage.
01:41And so it's out there.
01:42And so I was kind of looking forward to it and kind of dreading it at the same time.
01:46And the dread hasn't been felt as much as I feared it might.
01:50And I think most of the other traitors, I haven't spoken to all of them, but I think most of us feel the same way.
01:54It's quite exciting to see it out there.
01:55It's quite annoying because people want to talk to you about it all the time.
01:59Yeah, sorry about that.
02:00And I'm sure that dies down.
02:01No.
02:02But it is like, and they'll say stuff like, they'll ask you quite a long question and say,
02:05don't spoil it.
02:05And you think, well, why are you asking me anything?
02:08And I obviously don't say anything.
02:09Will, for Mina, what are you thinking in terms of Jonathan's traitor score?
02:13If you give him a score out of 10 for his time as a traitor.
02:17And guys, please don't hold back.
02:18No, I won't.
02:19Because I'm not going to take it at all personally.
02:21I'd rather you be as honest, and let's face it, as cruel as I know you both can be.
02:26I haven't seen you in the show.
02:27Okay, I will give you a seven.
02:30Oh, that's a high score.
02:31Thank you.
02:31And it's only that high because you lasted seven episodes.
02:34Yeah.
02:34It would have been, you know, the first traitor out, it's not great.
02:38And Wilf, your score for me.
02:40I'm going to give you a five.
02:41Five only five.
02:41Listen, listen.
02:42I think these are very high scores.
02:44Five, right?
02:45No, I think that's a fair one, but this one needs to explain it.
02:46Because you went out before Alan Carr.
02:49Yeah.
02:49And Alan Carr at times, from what I've watched, was the most obvious traitor.
02:54But Wilf.
02:54But it's working.
02:55But Wilf.
02:56Yeah.
02:56Don't you know that the people who seem like they don't know what's going on, and the
03:00people who seem confused and bumbling, they're the ones that get overlooked.
03:03Yeah.
03:03Because everyone always thinks like, like even the year that Harry won, even though he wasn't
03:07as confused, but he was acting the sweet, innocent kid who didn't really know what was going
03:10on and was quite kind of harming.
03:11Yeah.
03:11And so they do survive well.
03:13And I, I mean, I, you know, I didn't make any predictions to which one of us would last
03:18the longest.
03:18You know, I didn't want to play that game at all.
03:20But I genuinely thought, from the minute we were up there, I thought I will be the first
03:23of these three to go out.
03:24Really?
03:25Even seeing Alan talk very loudly many times about what the traitor's been doing in front
03:31of the whole group.
03:33How did that feel?
03:34It felt sort of endearing in a way, you know, and I never once thought, oh good, he'll, you
03:39know, because I didn't want to see Ivan get out.
03:40Yeah.
03:40I really didn't.
03:41You know, I just wanted to see one traitor make it to the end.
03:45On the point of Alan, he's now just openly laughing when people are murdered.
03:50On the round table.
03:51Yeah, the round table and at breakfast when it's like, this person's not come back, he's
03:55just laughing.
03:56It's a great tool as well because he laughs at everything.
03:58Even when someone's saying, I think you're a traitor, he'll laugh.
03:59No.
04:01And it's like, it's amazing because one of the things that I think you also appreciate
04:05the game is that consistency is very important.
04:07Yeah.
04:07And he is consistently Alan.
04:09Yeah.
04:10More so than he was.
04:11And once again, I suffered a bit there, I think, because Kat is very cool, calm, collected
04:15all the time.
04:15All the time.
04:16Whereas I, I think I struggled more with it than the two of them.
04:22And I was like, trying to keep myself focused in a way that they didn't seem to have to.
04:27Kat, because she was just, you know, could compartmentalise.
04:29And Alan, because I think he forgot what was going on quite a lot of the time.
04:33It's a good skill to have.
04:34I mean, he has been on quite a journey though, because when he was selected as a traitor,
04:37I thought he's never going to stop sweating.
04:39Yes.
04:39Which is amazing.
04:39Did he stop sweating?
04:41Nope.
04:41I think he's still sweating now.
04:44I genuinely went in thinking, I didn't mind what I was.
04:47I said, yeah, I really said, I don't mind if I'm a faithful or a traitor.
04:51And then I said, I guess I'd rather, ideally, be a faithful, be recruited.
04:55You can't guarantee that.
04:56So then I said, okay, I'd probably rather be a traitor.
04:58Yeah.
04:58So I think I'd have been a better faithful than most of them.
05:02Because.
05:04It's funny to watch a traitor getting frustrated with the faithful playing the game badly.
05:09I could not believe they didn't get Alan for killing Paloma.
05:13Yeah.
05:13And we weren't trying to set him up.
05:14It just made sense that he was the one who could conceivably do it,
05:17knowing the recently deceased would be interrogated the next day.
05:21Who could touch someone's face?
05:22If I touch someone's face, it's going to be weird.
05:24And if Kat, we know Kat wasn't touching anyone.
05:26She made it clear she doesn't want to be in touch.
05:28So Alan was the person to go for.
05:29But when it first came out, what was fascinating was the number of other faithfuls who shut it down.
05:34Yeah.
05:34Who leapt to his defence.
05:35It wouldn't be Alan.
05:36Yeah.
05:37And I tried to help that.
05:38I don't know if you saw, but in the graveyard, when we actually put the lid on the coffin,
05:40I said, someone said, it might have been me, said, you know, someone should say a few words.
05:43I said, it should be Alan, because he knew her best.
05:45And I was trying to position him in their heads as the person who cared for the most.
05:49And you were just trolling a little bit as well.
05:51That was a wonderful TV.
05:53But then afterwards, this is why I am somewhat stupid when it comes to games.
05:56After I went home and said, oh no, that's worse though.
05:58Because that would make people think, if I was a faithful, I think, well, who is the least likely person to have killed her?
06:03And that would be Alan.
06:04Yeah.
06:04And the fact they shut it down just based on supposedly on this friendship outside, and they are friends.
06:08It doesn't matter, you're going to kill your friends in there.
06:10That's what he says.
06:11Yeah.
06:11My whole strategy, I said from the beginning, just murder your friends.
06:15If you're a traitor, just murder your friends.
06:17You can patch it over afterwards.
06:18That's absolutely fine.
06:19So in the conclave, you had a very united front together.
06:24But outside of the conclave, there was no cohesiveness to who you were voting for?
06:29Not really.
06:30I mean, I think that's probably a good way to play it, to be honest with you.
06:32I thought Claire had me bang to right.
06:36So I did kind of help orchestrate that.
06:39But most of the time, we really...
06:40It's quite random, it seemed.
06:41Well, I think deliberately so, because I think it doesn't matter.
06:44It just causes chaos as well.
06:45Everybody thinks they've got a theory, and then someone goes...
06:47It works either way.
06:48If you murder someone who's been saying your name, you do what I did when we murder Ruth
06:53and say, obviously, I wouldn't murder Ruth.
06:55Yeah.
06:56Jonathan, now that you've seen the episodes, you've seen conversations that were happening
06:59when you weren't there, and how people were talking about you.
07:01Do you think there's anything that you could have done to survive any longer?
07:04I think yes.
07:05The night we killed Lucy, and I didn't want to kill Lucy that night.
07:08I actually wanted to kill Joe, but he had a shield, I think.
07:10Yes, he did, yeah.
07:11And Joe, see, I would have taken Joe out then.
07:13Yeah, yeah.
07:14Because Lucy had got me, and I'm pretty sure she was convinced, and she was right, of course.
07:18But I think Lucy could perhaps have been steered away from me,
07:23or I could have alienated her from others, so they didn't support her, I think.
07:27I think there was enough interest in how Lucy was playing it for me to maybe be able to massage
07:31that into a theory against her.
07:33But when we killed Lucy on the chessboard, I actually felt quite happy killing Lucy, because...
07:40Well, we could tell.
07:41Alan and Kat were looking really serious at me, and you had a big smile on your face.
07:43And it was the first time I thought, because I kind of know Lucy, and I really like Lucy,
07:48and I thought, this is going to be fine, because she knows me and I know her, and it's a game.
07:51And so I was like, for the first time, I was like, ha-ha, we got you.
07:55And then she looked really sad.
07:57And as I went off, I shouted, see, you want to be here?
07:59And then she sounded sad.
08:02And then I started feeling, oh, that was horrible.
08:05I hadn't meant it to be horrible.
08:06I meant it to be like, oh, you think it's funny I killed you, and I think it's funny I killed you.
08:10And it wasn't.
08:12And I just sort of had no appetite for murder anymore.
08:15I'd seen what murder is.
08:18I'd looked into the eyes of an innocent victim and decided this isn't really for me.
08:24And so when I was going in, I was thinking, okay, I've got to say, I've got to go in and say,
08:28oh, if it's Lucy that doesn't come in, you know what that means.
08:31They're setting me up.
08:32Didn't say that.
08:33Yeah.
08:33And then during the day when no one mentioned it to me, I thought, okay, I could turn this to my advantage, maybe,
08:37by going around to them saying, look, can I just say, one by one thing,
08:40no one's mentioned Lucy's death pointing at me.
08:42And I didn't mention it because I want to see who's trying to lead you against me.
08:46And whoever's talking about me in that way, and they respect me, I just want you to keep an eye on them.
08:50And I think I might have been able to turn the tide a bit.
08:52And I felt thoroughly disgusted with myself as a human being for murdering such a sweet woman from Hull.
08:58I do have to rethink your score.
09:01Because I just, what you've just said then, I'm going with the five.
09:05You're going with the five.
09:06High five.
09:07High five.
09:08Do you know what the best part?
09:10Well, you know what, I like that five because that five is because I'm showing my humanity.
09:15Yes.
09:15Yeah.
09:15And traitors don't show humanity.
09:17As a matter of fact, I'm now working on getting a one from both of you.
09:20So I begin to feel okay about myself again.
09:23Now, we're talking a lot about Lucy already.
09:25And happily, Lucy will be joining us right after we see what she had to say moments after she was murdered up in the Highlands.
09:32Who are you, Lucy?
09:39Welcome to Uncloaked.
09:41How are you doing?
09:42Good.
09:42Grab a seat.
09:48Lucy, welcome to Uncloaked.
09:49Thank you so much for joining us.
09:50Thank you, Ed.
09:51Sorry that you were murdered.
09:53It's okay.
09:54It's not your fault.
09:55Or was it?
09:55No, no, no, no, no.
09:56Does it get to that point in the game where you're suspecting everyone and everything, though?
10:00Yeah.
10:00Yeah.
10:01Yeah, I still am now.
10:03You know Claire Balding?
10:05Yeah, yes.
10:06I've heard of her.
10:07I still think she's a traitor.
10:10No, I'm being serious.
10:12You think there's going to be another twist?
10:14A sequel.
10:15Yeah.
10:15Where we'll all come back.
10:17And then we'll find out who the real traitors are.
10:20Who were you saddest to see leave?
10:22Joe Wilkinson.
10:23Because he was, like, well, we've both known him years, haven't we?
10:27But he's just so fun.
10:29He's just such a good energy to have around.
10:32That was a real blow.
10:34But Paloma, like, she's like Paloma, like, she is like, she's a superstar.
10:39Like, she's so fun to be around.
10:43Such an interesting person.
10:45It was like, why would you take, like, I was shocked, you know?
10:49And then you did think, oh, my God, the mean business, you know?
10:52It did really, it sort of shut us all up a bit.
10:54And that was very early on as well.
10:56Yeah.
10:57Did you feel the mood change then when Paloma was murdered?
10:59Well, I think that first round table,
11:01we were so worried to sort of speak our mind,
11:05because it's like, whoever speaks their mind is going to go.
11:08Mm-hm.
11:09And they did.
11:10Turning to the round tables, how did you find the round tables?
11:14Do you think you were good and useful at the round tables?
11:17I got better.
11:19I was a bit intimidated at the first round table.
11:24Um, I found it really, really, it's just weird.
11:29And also, like, you know that, like, what am I doing here?
11:33I'm 41 years old.
11:36I'm in a castle trying to hunt down a traitor.
11:40You know, it's like, what's going on?
11:41And, and, but I, I, I, I was in, I was intimidated.
11:47And I think if I had, if I'd have had an inkling about anything,
11:53I just felt I didn't have anything to go on.
11:56Mm-hm.
11:56So I thought, well, if I do,
11:57I'm not going to start incriminating people for the sake of it.
12:00They did a clever thing because by taking out who, you know,
12:03Paloma definitely was the, was the loudest,
12:06most outgoing person of the group.
12:07By taking her out first, it almost felt like they were saying,
12:12just keep quiet a bit.
12:14Right.
12:14Because if you're loud and unspoken, you could be next.
12:18It's mad that Jonathan and Alan know her the best
12:23and they took her out first.
12:26I was surprised about that because that was getting them off the hook.
12:29But of course they knew that, didn't they?
12:31Yeah.
12:31So clever.
12:33Okay, Lucy, let's talk about your face-to-face murder.
12:36Yeah.
12:36A huge moment in the show.
12:38How did you feel when you turned around on the chessboard
12:41and the three tracers were standing there?
12:42Oh, my God, it was such a shock.
12:45I mean, it was quite thrilling,
12:46but it was really eerie when they've got the cloak.
12:48It's those cloaks.
12:50Yeah.
12:51And when they took them off,
12:52because I think I saw Alan's first
12:54and was so surprised,
12:57and then Jonathan and then Kat.
13:00And I was so, I was genuinely felt betrayed by Kat.
13:04I mean, I'm over it now, but I did.
13:08Why were you so shocked by Kat?
13:11Because it was genuine.
13:13I was quite hurt in the moment.
13:16But at least she seemed sheepish.
13:19The other two didn't at all.
13:20They weren't embarrassed at all.
13:21But because we were becoming really good friends,
13:26and I totally trusted her when she said she wasn't.
13:30Because it was like, right, at least we've got each other, you know.
13:34I can't believe it.
13:36I still can't believe it.
13:37It was so well played.
13:39And I think she'll win,
13:40because there's always someone you would incriminate before her.
13:44Yeah.
13:44Her and Nick, they're very calming to be around.
13:47And when someone's calming to be around, you trust them.
13:51Lucy, thank you so much for joining me on Uncloaked.
13:53Thank you.
13:54It's been a pleasure to see you.
13:55Oh, you too.
13:56Sorry, you got killed.
13:57It's OK.
13:58I'll get over it.
14:02Now joining us from beyond the grave,
14:04it's Lucy Beaumont.
14:07Hello, Lucy.
14:08Lucy, first...
14:09Hello, Lucy.
14:10Thank you so much for coming back on the show.
14:12We have Jonathan with us in the studio.
14:15This is obviously the first time you've seen him since he murdered you.
14:17Do you have anything to say to him?
14:19No, no.
14:20I've got over it now.
14:21Obviously, at the time,
14:22it did something that brought past trauma or something.
14:28But now I don't really mind, really.
14:31He had all the outfits for it, didn't he?
14:33Anyway, he dressed like a traitor.
14:37You did dress like a traitor.
14:38I don't even have noticed that.
14:39Well, on that, yeah, I did have more outfits.
14:42Remember I told you, I think,
14:42I bought some really ridiculous outfits on,
14:44even by my standards.
14:45I bought a full goth outfit in one day,
14:48and I bought a new romantic outfit in and a punk outfit.
14:52But then when I saw people were sad when they were banished,
14:56I thought,
14:56I don't want them to be looking down at a overweight mid-60s man with eyeliner on and his hair teased up with kind of fake tears in his eyes.
15:08That's going to really be a scar they might never recover from.
15:12So I kept them at the back of the wardrobe.
15:14Oh, I'm gutted.
15:14I would have absolutely loved that.
15:15That would have been amazing.
15:16Lucy, how's it been to have the show go out in the world?
15:19How's the reaction been?
15:20Yeah, it is weird.
15:21It never seemed real at the time.
15:24Do you know what I mean?
15:25It's weird that, oh, it is a real show.
15:28Does that make sense?
15:29I know what you mean.
15:31You're obviously not saying that when you were filming it, you thought this isn't going to go out,
15:35but it just, do you mean you're so immersed in the game when you're in there,
15:38you almost forget that it's a TV show?
15:40Yeah, I took it too seriously.
15:42Someone did come to me and say that, you know, they're not really getting murdered.
15:48You don't have to just chill out.
15:51And it did help.
15:51And we go, oh, yeah.
15:52Because I was, you know, when I was in my bed at night,
15:56I was doing like diagrams and things.
15:58Can you talk us through these diagrams, please, Lucy?
16:01Yeah, yeah.
16:02Well, I did everyone round the round table and then I had like arrows, you know, between,
16:08but then I got a bit confused and then I fell asleep.
16:14Obviously a huge moment where you're murdered face-to-face on the chessboard.
16:18Mina, you were involved in a face-to-face murder in your series.
16:21Can you offer Lucy any words of encouragement following her horrible death?
16:25I'm really sorry you had to go through that,
16:28but I imagine it was the traitor's best moment.
16:31It was a huge moment, wasn't it?
16:32I think if you flip it from a traitor being kind,
16:35it's an honour to do, to be the person chosen to be.
16:38Yeah.
16:38Like, you're so important that they feel that you deserve to see them murder you.
16:43Yeah.
16:44It's the best way to be murdered.
16:45I wouldn't want to be murdered and you don't get to see anyone or you just go home.
16:48Oh, no, I much preferred murdering of them not knowing, frankly.
16:51I loved murdering in the shadows.
16:54Stalking in the shadows was great.
16:55Lucy, I almost wish we had Nick here so you could give him both barrels about sabotaging that mission.
17:00When he dropped that bombshell at the round table,
17:03how did you feel about that plan that he seemed to have?
17:06Well, this is why it's weird now watching it back,
17:10because I didn't realise he thought I was a traitor.
17:14So I just couldn't understand why he'd done it.
17:16I thought it was, like, just because he's, like, into magic and stuff.
17:20But now I get it.
17:22But I didn't get a sense of that.
17:23Again, I thought we were really tight.
17:26But it's weird, isn't it, that feeling of, like,
17:28oh, God, no, he never trusted me.
17:29Yeah, so that was a very bold slash confusing tactic from Nick
17:34to sabotage the mission and then admit to it at the round table.
17:36As traitors, we should have made more of that.
17:38We should have made more of that, because we could have capitalised on that.
17:40Yeah.
17:41But at the time, at that stage, I think we were kind of just wheeling a little bit.
17:45Our names were coming up more, and we were thinking,
17:47OK, well, if it's not pointing at us, it's not pointing at us.
17:49And, you know, I was convinced at that stage, and I think I'm right,
17:52I think Nick was convinced I was a faithful at that stage.
17:54So I didn't want to pile on Nick, because I needed support.
17:57But I think people were pretty set on Nick being a faithful.
18:00I think he's one of, as close as you can get to 100% faithful.
18:03in there, I think.
18:04Yeah, I think so.
18:05Of the three traitors, I think Kat was the smartest of the three of us
18:08in terms of understanding how the game was actually playing in the moment.
18:11You know, and then, it's not saying much, but I was better than Alan.
18:18Lucy, you mentioned that you felt very betrayed
18:20when you found out Kat was a traitor, because you'd grown so close.
18:23How are you feeling now?
18:25Yeah, I've had some long walks in the countryside.
18:29Yeah, no, I'm absolutely, yeah, fine about it.
18:33Yeah, it, yeah, I was upset, wasn't I?
18:36Yeah, well, you were upset, but then, when I spoke to you,
18:39as soon as I got out, you were one of the first people I called,
18:41because that was so on my mind.
18:42I was genuinely upset I'd done that.
18:44And I called you, and I said, like, I was upset.
18:46Oh, no, I was ready to go, though.
18:48Well, I knew you had your VAT returns to do as well, and you told me.
18:51And I thought, you told me, and I thought, I'm actually doing her a favour,
18:54because you were very worried about your VAT returns.
18:56And I thought, well, that'll make me feel better.
18:58No, but I did feel sad.
18:59No, don't, you don't have to make me feel better.
19:01I killed you.
19:04But what you're forgetting is, you knew you were going to see me.
19:07Yeah.
19:08I didn't know it was, the shock was, you can't believe it.
19:13Yeah.
19:14But it's like we're back from the dead or something.
19:16You know, seeing people.
19:18Lucy, you're not with us for very much longer,
19:19but this is your opportunity to get whatever you like off your chest to Jonathan.
19:23Any closing remarks from you?
19:26No, just only that.
19:27You've played a good game.
19:29And obviously, my respect for you has gone down massively.
19:35But, you know, I hope your career thrives.
19:38I really do.
19:40I wish you all the best.
19:43Like, I was just so, like, mesmerised by the amount of textures and textiles you wore.
19:52Only you could pull that off, Jonathan.
19:54Finally, Lucy, are you still suspicious of Claire?
19:57Claire Balding's my number one.
19:58Do we go back again?
20:00I'm still sort of, like, half-anxious, like,
20:03I'm still a little bit in gameplay mode.
20:05Well, pack your bags, you're off to the castle today.
20:08There's a car coming for you right now, you're back in.
20:11Thank you so much for joining us, Lucy.
20:15Thank you.
20:15It's nice to see you, Liz.
20:16See ya.
20:17So, obviously, at the end of tonight's episode, it was a huge moment.
20:20The first traitor banished.
20:22Jonathan was out.
20:23And he had the faithful on the edge of their seats right until the very end.
20:27I've got no idea what everyone's doing wrong.
20:32I cannot believe you've done it again.
20:34I cannot believe that I'm standing here for no good reason.
20:39So, I don't want to be rude, but you're idiots.
20:43But, I'm not judging, because it's fiendish,
20:46so I am not blaming the players, I'm blaming the game.
20:52I am now, and I have been all through the game completely faithful.
20:56To the traitors!
21:03To the traitors!
21:10So good.
21:14So good.
21:14What an exit to be.
21:15It was worth it for Joe's reaction, because I thought I could get most of them going,
21:18apart from Celia and Joe.
21:20Yeah.
21:20I thought they were the two.
21:21But when Joe looked genuinely shaken, I thought, good, I've achieved something.
21:25Yeah, Nick had bought it at Hookline.
21:26Oh my God, Nick was invested.
21:28I've never seen him look so confused.
21:30Nick was still on the fence about me a bit, I think.
21:32And he thought, well, we've got to try this.
21:33And it probably is him.
21:34And Joe was so convinced, and he was so convinced.
21:36Joe was faithful, so it was, you know.
21:38Did you count in your head how long you're going to wait until you say the traitors?
21:42I just thought, I'd keep doing it until I sense Claudia getting nervous.
21:46And then run it out.
21:48But, you know, but it is quite nerve-wracking.
21:49But it's also, it is, weirdly, a relief when you're standing here.
21:54It's a relief when you're found.
21:55You know, it's like, thank God the lying can stop.
21:58Yeah.
21:58Do you know what I love?
21:59Jonathan was, when we were watching that clip,
22:01Kat's eyebrows almost frowned up as if she thought for a second that you were going to fade for.
22:07Did anyone else get on to that?
22:08That was incredible work from Kat in the reactions.
22:10She was so good at keeping it tamped down.
22:13Yeah.
22:13But even Alan's quite consistent, though.
22:15Like, he laughed at everybody, and he still laughed at you.
22:17Well, we saw it at the beginning of the clip.
22:19He was, like, grinning from ear to ear.
22:20It's what we call a very generous audience.
22:22Yeah.
22:24Obviously, it's taken a long time for them to find their first traitors.
22:28I know.
22:28And you know what?
22:28Genuinely, I'm surprised.
22:30Yeah.
22:30Genuinely, all three of us were surprised.
22:32Well, you did call them idiots.
22:33Yeah.
22:33But that was playful and affectionate.
22:36I don't think they were bad faithful at all,
22:37and I don't think we were particularly good or bad traitors.
22:40I think just the fiendish nature of this game is that there are so many moving parts.
22:45It's such a kind of – it's like if you've ever studied fluid mechanics in physics,
22:48it's one of the most difficult things because you can predict how things –
22:53it's incredibly fiendish, the amount of computations you have to do.
22:56This is close to fluid mechanics.
22:58It's like, you know, you drop a pebble in something,
22:59and, you know, it can interact, and then it – so many different things.
23:02Because every time something's said, you don't know what's going to be picked up on
23:05and how that impact it's going to have on you and then you and by the time it gets to me
23:09and whether it's going to be lessened or more, whether it's going to be ignored completely
23:12and not seen or whether – so there's – you know, I don't – I didn't actually think
23:17they were stupid or bad at the game.
23:19I just think it was – if anything, I think we were a little luckier than we deserved to be.
23:24I think you guys were great traitors, and Lucy actually mentioned it just before
23:28when you guys murdered Paloma.
23:30It shook everyone.
23:31So I think they were so scared on the round tables to say too much
23:35because they thought, you guys are going to take them out.
23:37You know, Tom had opinions, and then he was murdered.
23:40Well, Tom did go because of his opinions, because I think I sensed with Tom and with Charlotte,
23:43my feeling about them was that they weren't going to let go.
23:46They were so true to their opinions.
23:48The benefit of us with someone like Lucy was that she was somewhat malleable.
23:51Yes.
23:52But then she's given us credit for murdering Paloma,
23:54but as you saw, that was kind of a random act.
23:56Yeah.
23:57It was an opportunity.
23:58It was like, look, I knew it would probably be Paloma.
24:01It could just as well have been – I think Ruth was in there.
24:04If Paloma had left first, it might well have been Ruth.
24:06And I think as well, like, when you've got people that hang on evidence
24:10instead of changing their evidence every day,
24:12you get rid of them because they don't forget things.
24:15Yeah.
24:15What did you think – the big dog theory obviously really took off.
24:18Yeah.
24:19Well, it was slightly annoying because obviously it was focused on me,
24:23but it's really based on nothing.
24:24Yeah.
24:25I mean, it's based on an idea from outside the game.
24:27And, you know, I don't even know now whether you could legitimately say
24:30it was a good theory.
24:32Like, who do you consider the big dogs now?
24:34Okay, me and Steve will mention Claire's a big dog.
24:36Yeah.
24:36She's huge in her field.
24:37Alan's one of the biggest.
24:38He's a stadium comedian.
24:40Claire is big in dogs.
24:40Yeah, Claire's got all the dogs watching her.
24:43And the dogs hate me now.
24:46But, you know, so there were a lot of people who could have been, you know,
24:49Tom Daly, an Olympian.
24:50He's multiple medal-winning Olympian.
24:53It's like – so it didn't really make sense apart from it was convenient for some.
24:57Yeah.
24:57Did you see yourself as a leader within the turrets?
25:00Not at all.
25:01You seemed like one, though.
25:02I think I was – look, we've all met men.
25:05And men automatically – can I speak for us both here?
25:12Yes.
25:12Men automatically think their voice should be heard in a group.
25:17And so, inevitably, I was partly, you know, that's my years of conditioning.
25:21But we listened to Kat as much, if not more, than me.
25:25I think more – you know, if you were to break it down,
25:26I think more of the decisions as to who we murdered came from or were guided by Kat.
25:31At the time, were you aware of this pact that Alan and Kat had made to throw you under the bus?
25:36It was interesting, though.
25:37I think Kat was more ready to do it than Alan.
25:39But you was dropping names here and everywhere.
25:41You were throwing out Alan and Kat now and again.
25:43I knew I was going to go that day.
25:44I'll put it through.
25:45And I thought, if I haven't said their names, this is bad for them.
25:48Oh.
25:49And so I said their names, but I didn't use any persuasion.
25:52You know, I didn't give any good reason.
25:54I just said, well, who are the people – maybe we should be the people we haven't been looking at.
25:56Like Kat and like Alan.
25:58You know, the quieter voices.
25:59And Joe was interesting.
26:00And I was pretty sure – you know, I knew almost without doubt –
26:02Joe was still 100% of me.
26:04Celia was still 100% of me.
26:05So I knew whatever I said was not going to steer them towards –
26:10unless they had second-guessed me and thought, oh, he's saying traitors' names.
26:12But that's very unlikely.
26:13So I wanted to make sure before I went that I'd said their names to a couple of people.
26:17And I did.
26:18I said – I think that was the only day I said their names.
26:21And I said I dropped it in a few times, but very lightly.
26:24It's quite nice and unique to have a traitor that doesn't want to throw the other traitors under the bus when they go.
26:28It's quite nice, actually.
26:30I probably would have done, you know, if it had come to it in the round table, if I had to.
26:34But I didn't want to.
26:35And to be honest with you, of the three of us, even now, if I was planning again, I'd rather it be me that went first.
26:40Well, Mina, you had a situation where you finally trusted another traitor and that was the end of you.
26:45Was this Charlotte?
26:46Yeah.
26:46You can't trust the Welsh.
26:47She's not even Welsh.
26:49Exactly.
26:50That's what I'm saying.
26:51Because I like Welsh people.
26:53Honestly, yeah, you guys haven't yet had to recruit.
26:56Obviously, I don't know what's going to come up next.
26:59But recruiting somebody is the most dangerous thing for a traitor.
27:02It's horrible as well.
27:03Because there is kind of trust within yourselves when you start together.
27:06You're on this journey together.
27:08And yes, there's times where you're going to have to vote each other out.
27:10But it's because you have to.
27:12Whereas when you recruit someone, they can't trust you because they've watched what you've done.
27:17Yeah.
27:17Jonathan, for any future traitors out there, do you have any advice that you'd give them?
27:21I think going, being prepared.
27:23I mean, you've got to go in with a fairly strong sense of self.
27:25And I would say also, you know, it's the thing that we all know really is don't be too loud.
27:30Don't be too quiet.
27:31Don't be too quick.
27:32Don't be too slow.
27:33Don't be too forthright.
27:34Don't hold yourself back too much.
27:36You've got to stay in the middle without that itself looking suspicious.
27:39Yeah.
27:39Unless you're someone that they know is going to be big.
27:41And that's why I think Alan and Kat are playing such a brilliant game.
27:43Because Alan is being bigger than you think might keep you safe in the game.
27:48But if he wasn't, that would be madly suspicious.
27:50For him.
27:51And Kat is being reserved and calm and kind of like, you know, quite introverted because
27:56that is her.
27:56Well, that's all we've got time for here.
27:59But don't fret.
27:59The chat continues on BBC Sounds.
28:02Jonathan, Wilf, and Mina will be hanging around to discuss friends amongst the faithful,
28:05teammates in the Traitors' Turret, and post-game life.
28:08It's all in the bonus episode of the Celebrity Traitors Uncloaked in your BBC Sounds app right
28:12now.
28:13Find that in your app store or just scan the QR code below.
28:16A huge thank you to Jonathan Ross, Lucy Beaumont, Wilf, and Mina for joining in the fun.
28:20We'll be back tomorrow night after episode eight to find out who Alan tries to murder in plain
28:24sight, and who's the last person to get banished before the final.
28:28I'm Ed Gamble.
28:29Stay faithful.
28:34They've added you, so join in the unfiltered chat Tom Grennan and Roman Kemp.
28:39You about?
28:39On BBC Sounds.
28:41While on iPlayer, the search for the next superstar continues RuPaul's Drag Race UK.
28:46Press red now.
28:54Est estimate.
28:59Stateussen are OK.
28:59See you later.
29:00We'll be back when you get a, we got a special one.
29:03Thank you for this.
29:03Dave Wowzer.
29:04We'll be back when we're...
29:06operator going to see you next time...
29:09emo Isãy vemgial.
29:11If you're like, you're dead Catalyst.
29:12There's no bad reason.
29:14There's not been too bad but...
29:15V down 1.
29:17You just are an unearnold.
29:19And, I'm you canmmm.
29:21You're definitely so bad.
29:22I'm you're gonna make a big one.
29:22Me notviعد.
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