- 3 weeks ago
U.S. President Donald Trump concludes an action-packed visit to Malaysia for the ASEAN Summit. Trade deals, a ceasefire, and U.S. influence in the region - what does it mean for Malaysia and Southeast Asia? U.S. Ambassador H.E. Edgard Kagan breaks it down on AWANI International Special.
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00:00you're watching awani international i am cynthia now president donald trump's visit to malaysia
00:16is the first u.s presidential appearance at an ASEAN summit in three years now trade deals were
00:23signed a ceasefire agreed and American engagement in this region is once again in the spotlight
00:30joining me to discuss what it all means for u.s malaysia ties and for the wider region is the u.s
00:37ambassador to malaysia his excellency edgar kagan thank you so much cynthia and it is such a pleasure
00:43to be here it's particularly a pleasure because this has been such a monumental few days in the
00:51u.s malaysia relationship but i think in u.s engagement in southeast asia i was just talking
00:57to a friend for whom I have tremendous respect, someone Malaysian whom I've known for over a decade
01:02who said that what we saw was a geopolitical shift and I think that we've genuinely seen
01:11a geopolitical shift in the last 48 i guess slightly more than 48 hours where we're in a region
01:20where people had questions about u.s commitment u.s staying power we've seen the u.s not just show up
01:30and you're right it's the first time in three years but show up in a way that I think very few people
01:36expected so my view president trump's visit to kalemur delivered very significant benefits for
01:46the people of malaysia for the people of the united states and i think for the region as a whole
01:50and this runs from areas you know obviously peace and ending war but also supporting trade supporting
01:59prosperity in both of our countries we'll get to more of that later but uh just going back to
02:06first president u.s president in three years and um president trump's first asin summit since 2017
02:13ambassador why now why what made this the year to show up because we have seen the u.s opt out in
02:20the past couple of years so a couple of key issues i think that i drove this one is the president has
02:30been very clear and the administration has been very clear since coming back to office that the
02:37indo-pacific is critically important to the united states and i think you saw secretary of state marco
02:43rubio really emphasized that point when he was here in july um saying that the u.s recognizes that when
02:51the history of the 21st century is written the most important chapters will be the parts that have to do
02:56with the indo-pacific and the u.s is an indo-pacific power and so i think that's part of the framing for
03:03this but I think that the really critical thing is that the president recognizes the importance of
03:08engagement and also I think something that was sort of a bit unexpected was the border conflict
03:16between cambodia and thailand and the president moved extremely quickly to engage to make very clear
03:23that he wanted a ceasefire to push both governments in the direction of peace and in doing that
03:30Malaysia was an indispensable partner so I think what you saw was the pieces coming together on one
03:35hand a partnership to try and support peace between cambodia and thailand where the u.s and malaysia
03:42worked extraordinarily closely with a level of coordination that I have seen extremely rarely
03:49in the time that i've been in malaysia which you know it's basically five years split between in two
03:55segments but going back to 2014 and at the same time a recognition on the part of the Malaysian
04:02government and the u.s government of the importance of the trade and economic relationship between us
04:07countries which led to a serious effort to try and close an agreement on reciprocal trade and it's worth it
04:14noting malaysia and cambodia are the first two such agreements the united states assigned in the world
04:20and so what we've seen is a recognition that the economic relationship is critical
04:26but that the u.s role in the region brings more than just prosperity it brings security it brings
04:33stability and you've seen a president who is firmly committed to trying to end conflicts where he can
04:41can i just go back to the thailand cambodia ceasefire deal which u.s played a monumental role
04:46beyond stopping the fighting what does this episode tell us about the long-term influence
04:54from washington in this region it's a great question cynthia and i think that the key things are
05:01this one the u.s continues to be a critical part of this region i think that when you go back to
05:07the end of world war ii 80 years now the u.s has been vital for both promoting stability
05:16and security and security and the product that has enabled countries in the region to develop as
05:21well as promoting an economic architecture which has allowed countries to prosper and obviously
05:28countries continue to seek development um and there is more to do but I think that there's everyone
05:35in the region fully understands that the u.s provided the structures which were extraordinarily good
05:42for countries in the region not just in southeast asia but if you look at the u.s and the u.s market
05:48the u.s security umbrella and the regional and global economic architecture has been critical
05:53to the development of Japan Korea Taiwan and then of course China and so we as well as throughout
06:02southeast asia but i think what the peace discussions showed is that when the u.s engages and engages
06:08effectively the u.s makes a huge difference and there's a tremendous reservoir of trust in the
06:15united states that's not to say countries like necessarily you know there was some concern in
06:20both Thailand and Cambodia about being pushed into this but I think that they also recognized this was
06:26the way to get an agreement that was good for everyone for both countries but for the entire region
06:31right noted on that point but if I can press a bit more on the ceasefire deal so president trump has
06:36said that the trade incentives on for both countries were contingent on the durability of the ceasefire
06:43so the question is um how does washington plan to support the truce moving forward and do you see that
06:49um economic leverage is a sustainable tool to keep border conflicts or whatever conflicts at bay or is that
06:58just more short term measure i think that you see several things one is the president's made very clear
07:04that this matters to him and I think that what you see is that this gives both countries an ability
07:13to say we have to look at what is happening in a broader context and do what is good for us
07:19for the country as a whole so I think the economic tools are part of the broader package which is on one
07:25hand you've negotiated what I believe and I admit to being very biased because I was very involved in negotiations
07:30is a very fair agreement something that tries to address the concerns of both countries and make sure
07:38that neither country feels that the other has won and it is lost at the same time both of these
07:45discussions are seen by both countries as being in the context of their desire for strong economic ties
07:50with the united states and a recognition that jeopardizing those ties is not in their national interest all right now
07:56now speaking of uh... economic ties on trade uh... malaysia and u.s. has formalized a trade agreement
08:02uh... nineteen uh... percent locking in nineteen percent tariff which was agreed back in August
08:06what does this really mean for both sides give us a sense of the trade i think that the the key thing on this is number one
08:14and I think this is incredibly important Malaysia is one of the first two countries to get this kind of an agreement
08:21agreement an agreement which provides stability continuity and predictability and that is incredibly important for investors
08:28so separate from the nuts and bolts of the agreement the the and and i think that if you look at the agreement closely there's benefits for both sides
08:36but what it does is it gives certainty and investors crave certainty and I think that what you'll see in the coming months is a resurgence of investment into Malaysia
08:46when i think it's fair to say that investment in the region had been paused in many cases as investors private sector was waiting to see greater signs of predictability in what would happen
08:59are you referencing american investors i think not just american investors i think investment from all parts of the world so i think that you get that but i think the agreement itself generates real benefits for people in both countries
09:11obviously there is a concern in malaysia about how did malaysia do in this and that's totally fair i think from our perspective we believe malaysia negotiated with great skill and negotiated something which brought real benefits to malaysia
09:26obviously we also believe that this brings tremendous benefits to the united states and moves us in the direction of truly reciprocal trade rather than having a structural trade deficit with malaysia
09:36malaysia but i think that the broader thing is who benefits who doesn't i think one of the key things in this is malaysia worked very hard to try and get benefits for the rural sector
09:49and i think that if you look at what the agreement does in terms of palm oil if you look at what it does in terms of rubber and other agricultural commodities it's very clear the government made a decision to try and support the livelihoods
10:05and the well-being of people who live and work in rural areas it also made a decision that this brings benefits to the tech sector and to the e and e sector both of which have been so important to powering Malaysia's growth
10:19so i think that you know that obviously there are critics of this but i think the government the critics and you know the critics have their own agendas they have their own views in some cases they actually are based on economic issues
10:30but I think that the key thing is the government made decisions and the government chose to prioritize rural Malaysians and their well-being and also chose to prioritize areas where Malaysia has traditionally been strong
10:44would you be able then to comment one part of the text i'm going to a bit of a detail
10:50are you going to read part of the text i'm going to summarize it so one part of the text is that the u.s. can terminate the deal if it no longer aligns with american interests
10:59and this includes the situations involving bilateral agreements um how should malaysia interpret this right and is this just a standard language or is this a way to give flexibility um built in for both sides not just american
11:14it's a good question cynthia but what i would the way i would look at this is every agreement includes some kind of mechanism for how you end the agreement you know agreements
11:28governments change their minds and so this is very very standard i think that's not the right thing to look at and look this cuts both ways
11:35i mean malaysia is able to do the same so malaysia is not locked into this if malaysia feels its national interests change and it no longer has an interest in the prosperity and well-being of the malaysian people then it can choose to withdraw and the u.s. can do the same so that's normal i think the key thing is what does this bring to the people of malaysia
11:57who benefits and i think that what you look what you see is that this brings real benefits to malaysians i know that i've seen you know criticism or concern
12:04malaysia surrendering its sovereignty obviously i disagree i think malaysia is exercising its sovereignty to do something which is in the best interest of the malaysian people and is the in the best interest of the malaysian economy
12:16all right well thank you for that clarification ambassador i really appreciate it okay so this has been a week of trade deals ceasefire summits agreements signed um i think uh the next question is now that president trump has left what does what in your opinion is genuine long genuine long-term trust between the u.s. and malaysia how does that look like and to a certain extent to the broader region what role do you see uh the u.s. will play
12:45moving forward i think the u.s. will continue to play the role that it has played for the past 80 years the u.s. is part of the indo-pacific the u.s. has tremendous interest in the indo-pacific the u.s. has been a major player in southeast asia going back to the end of world war ii and i think that is clearly going to continue we are massive investors here there's a huge amount of trade we are trying to rebalance
13:15the u.s. believes is has not been as favorable to the american people as it should have been that is something that you know i know there are people who disagree with that but i don't think that anyone can question that this reflects the views of many people in the united states so we're working on that but doing it in a way that continues to build on the strengths of the relationship and partnership between southeast asia and the united states i think when you look at this going forward what you can
13:45the leaders you could see the genuine joy on president trump's face as he arrived and you know i i have seen this i've done many presidential visits over the course of my career the arrival ceremony the energy this was one of the best if not the best i've ever seen uh you know i've seen people talking about criticizing the president's dancing
14:15um yes um yes there's some critics yes there are people who are not happy that's completely normal we fully understand their strong views but i think that seeing the energy seeing the president's excitement when he got to kuala lumpur how impressed he was by kuala lumpur you know one of the things that he mentioned to the prime minister uh when right before his departure the prime minister was talking about how these images had gone viral around the world and the president said yes this is hundreds of millions of dollars of publicity
14:44for malaysia this around the world people are seeing incredibly positive images of malaysia you may see i was just uh shown a clip that i'm told has gone viral in around the world including the u.s of the drive on the meks highway into kuala lumpur and how impressed people were so you know this is something that brings extraordinary benefits to malaysia but i think that what it also does is it's a reminder of how well we work together
15:14and that's why i think the negotiations on the trade agreement the negotiations we had which at times were quite difficult on the various other things we saw the elevation to a comprehensive strategic partnership the critical minerals memorandum of understanding the maritime cooperation memorandum of understanding what we saw was we're able to do so much when we work together and on the cambodia thailand thing i have like i said i've never seen americans and malaysians work so closely and effectively
15:44together so i think the real benefit separate from all this the real benefit is the relationship between the leaders a relationship between the governments and a recognition of how well we can do when we do things together and also i think an outpouring of goodwill towards the united states from the malaysian public which look there have been disagreements and we recognize that but i think it shows that the overwhelming majority of malaysians
16:14are really happy to see
16:18look at that and yes and yes there will be we saw there were 100 maybe 150 demonstrators we are glad that there were demonstrators because that shows
16:22that malaysia respects freedom of speech that malaysia is willing to support dissenting views i find it interesting some of the people who are the most focused on those dissenting views had very different attitudes towards dissenting views when they were in government so i think what we've seen is yes there's some people who are unhappy but i think the overwhelming majority of malaysians are really happy to see malaysia get the attention it deserves
16:46and malaysia really be highlighted as a strong partner to the united states there was also that moment uh where president trump invited prime minister anwar into the uh official limousine
16:59the beast so i think many of us are curious was that spontaneous and in the in respect to uh diplomacy from your point of view
17:08how do you how do you see that what message has it sent I think that first of all it was definitely spontaneous
17:15um the president um the president doesn't do things like that based on what people like me tell him to do
17:21the president wanted to do that i can tell you there was a gasp you know you couldn't really hear it because
17:28there was all the music there was a gasp from all the security people on both sides about that
17:33uh and you know look there's a reality which is and the prime minister anwar sort of teased secretary of state rubio about this
17:42in general the systems on both sides don't really like the leaders to be together without anybody else
17:49because then we don't really know what they talked about but what is clear to me and i happen to see
17:53I had the good fortune to see Malaysia's two deputy prime ministers last night and I was telling them
17:58this is what diplomats work for and the reality is i said to them if it goes badly it's the ambassador's
18:07fault but when it's a success it's because the leaders are great and what we saw was what we got
18:12leaders together they connected they were able to have very candid conversations including on tough
18:18issues like Gaza where the prime minister was able to very articulately put forward Malaysia's views on
18:24Gaza and I think he heard from the president of the president's strong commitment to maintaining
18:28the agreement in gaza trying to promote peace there and how important that is to him
18:33so what you can see is there's one model which is there's a room and all the people who matter are
18:40in the room and there are people who are jumping up and down outside the window waving signs
18:44and then so that's one model you know sometimes you can hear their voices inside the room sometimes you
18:51can't sometimes you notice the signs sometimes you don't the other model is you can be at the table
18:56in the room making your voice heard i think the prime minister and the government of malaysia
19:00have decided that that actually is a more effective model and from the US perspective
19:05we agree we'd much rather have a serious conversation and one where we're not necessarily going to agree
19:12but where we understand each other's positions rather than have a bunch of sort of jumping up and
19:18down outside the room okay now in a couple of minutes that we do have left i do want to get your point
19:24of you as ambassador to Malaysia where are some of the opportunities that you're most excited about
19:29now that um as a summit is coming to an end and president trump has left what keeps you excited
19:34what keeps me excited is that we have certainty and stability on the economic side and one thing
19:42that i'm incredibly proud of as the u.s ambassador here is that the u.s has played such an extraordinary
19:49role in malaysia's economic development i think that if you go back american companies have been
19:53present and doing business in Malaysia since the 1880s or 1890s um you can see you know our
20:01friends from exxon mobil talk about standard oil starting to do business um in what's now malaysia
20:07in that period our friends from coca-cola have been here for almost a hundred years there have been
20:12American investors who helped develop the tin industry and the rubber industry and they obviously provided
20:17some of the demand the oil and gas sector patronus has an incredibly close partnership with american
20:23companies um you can see the impact that american tech firms had in the in malaysia and the
20:30investments there nothing makes me prouder than the fact that so many malaysians have been trained
20:36by them and gone on to do so well and it's no small thing the ceos of broadcom the highest paid
20:42ceo in the world and of intel both are malaysians they're malaysians who started working for american
20:49companies where their talent was recognized they were given opportunities like so many others and
20:54when I go to meetings of the Malaysian semiconductor industry association to companies that are involved
21:00in the tech sector and the ene sector and I ask how many of you here worked for an American company
21:06almost everybody raises their hand at some point they work there and look i this is not to take anything
21:11away for investors from other countries but I don't think you can say that so we've done so much but
21:17there is so much more we can do as Malaysia moves into an increasingly digitally based economy
21:23as we look at how do we move malaysia further up the value chain in the tech sector i think that you
21:29can see that the u.s market and u.s partnership is critical and i make this point to people that you
21:36know malaysia talks about the importance of being neutral and i fully understand that's malaysia's views
21:42but it's also worth keeping in mind i am not aware of any company which has moved production from china
21:49to malaysia because they want to export to china people are coming to malaysia because they want to
21:55to take advantage of malaysia's integration into western supply chains and that is what has happened
22:01powering malaysia's economy that's not to take anything away from trade with china malaysia imports
22:06a growing amount of things from China a lot of consumer goods and that is forcing Malaysians
22:11companies to compete in ways that they haven't had to do and you know that's completely legitimate
22:18malaysia also exports things to china but malaysia's most important export market continues to be the
22:24united states and particularly when you look at the value added of goods what does it bring to
22:29Malaysians, I think the US continues to be Malaysia's most important economic partner and I would just call
22:35your attention to the statistic that american companies in malaysia pay twice the average
22:41malaysian wage and so malaysians there are 300 000 plus malaysians work directly for american companies
22:48our guess is that number is actually significantly higher because not every American company responded
22:53to that was we were doing the surveys but also american companies employ hundreds of thousands of
22:59people through contractors and subcontractors and these are higher value added jobs so we think that
23:06there's a synergy small things American companies pay taxes American companies are a significant share of
23:13malaysia's research and development spending is done by american companies that's not to say that
23:18investment from other places doesn't bring value but I think that historically and going forward you're
23:23going to see value come from American companies for American investment and investment that is driven by
23:29desire to be part of western and american supply chains all right so that's malaysia i would like to
23:34bring this to a broader Asian view of course looking ahead in your opinion what would be a success
23:42u.s asian engagement looks like that would put us on a more solid sustainable path because i know you
23:48mentioned that this america is back again in this region i think over the past decade we have seen a bit
23:53of um what appears to be a bit of hands-off approach so um continuity trust i i cynthia look i have to say
24:01i disagree with what you said just said i think that one of the things that's quite remarkable is you
24:07can go back 20 plus years and you see that the indo-pacific is an increasingly central focus in u.s foreign
24:15policy and I say this you know george w bush administration paid a great deal of attention to
24:21the indo-pacific both china india southeast asia strengthening relations with japan also korea the
24:29obama administration did that the trump administration did that the biden administration did that and the
24:34Trump administration is doubling down now so I don't think that this is new and I understand that
24:40basic premise of the point but I think that what you can really see is a growing recognition in the
24:45united states that the indo-pacific is critical to u.s security and prosperity and that what happens
24:54here matters and that we have to be part of the story so I think that what I would argue is that
25:01what how does successful u.s engagement with asean look it looks like what we just saw we are able to
25:06simultaneously strengthen bilateral ties with important partners and I think that what you've seen
25:12is that two countries that many people felt were moving towards china rightly or wrongly and the
25:19the prime minister always tells me i was wrong whenever whenever i say that you know malaysia's moving
25:24towards china moving back and i think it's significant cambodia and malaysia signing these trade agreements
25:32the participation in the peace agreement the fact that they wanted the u.s there i think is very
25:37significant at the same time you saw improvement in our relationship with Thailand uh and you know
25:43we signed a critical minerals mou we also announced a framework for the negotiation of an agreement on
25:49reciprocal trade these are very significant and at the same time you've seen very significant and
25:55effective engagement with quite a few other southeast Asian countries so I think that would you
25:59know it means a couple things one is engaging with asean showing that we recognize that asean matters
26:06to southeast asia recognizing asean centrality but also using that as a platform to reinforce
26:14the strengthening of bilateral ties and the continued focus on things which we believe
26:19the u.s can play a very important role on including maritime security including broader security issues
26:25in the region all right and we look forward continued u.s engagement in this region and with malaysia thank you
26:29you so much our ambassador for your time great to have you on the show great it's great to be here cynthia
26:34and thank you even though you were a little tough i can just say thank you so much thank you to see you again
27:04you
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