00:00Prashant Kishore himself is a new entrant in politics.
00:03Please see the kind of crowds he gathers spontaneously.
00:08During his Padhyatra and now during the Badlavyatra.
00:11He's not heading a Balu Mafia.
00:13He's not heading a Sharab Mafia.
00:16People come to listen because they want the change.
00:21And that is the USP of our candidates.
00:30Hello and welcome to Outlook Talks.
00:33After a long time in Bihar politics, there is a disruptor to the traditional parties.
00:39The Jan Suraj Party, founded by Prashant Kishore.
00:43The parties, it kind of shuns both the communal line of the BJP as well as the socialist agenda of the RJP.
00:53While this is, as the party says, it's a USP, given the brand of politics in Bihar,
00:59it could also be undoing.
01:01To discuss these, we have joining us Pavan Verma.
01:05Thank you very much, Pavanji, who is the chief national spokesperson of Jan Suraj,
01:12as well as a very senior leader there.
01:14And of course, an old Bihar hand, you know, who's seen the politics from all angles.
01:20So thank you very much for joining, Pavan.
01:22Let me begin with the most dramatic news that has come from Jan Suraj recently.
01:28The fact that the founder, Prashant Kishore, will not be contesting these elections.
01:35Two, three days ago, he made his announcement.
01:38Of course, he says that he's done this because he shouldn't focus only on his constituency.
01:43He needs to sort of go to all other constituencies also.
01:46That is his reasoning.
01:47But sir, on the ground, many feel that, you know, he's kind of run scared at the last moment
01:52after making some very, you know, bombastic challenges to RJD's stages we are there.
01:58Let me answer your question.
02:00First of all, it's a very tried and tested strategy in electoral politics
02:05that for the leader, a decision needs to be made whether he or she is required to use their resources
02:16to campaign for the other candidates across the states or stand himself or herself from a particular constituency.
02:24This choice was before Prashant Kishore.
02:28He could have stood from Raghapur, which I am sure he would have given a very tough fight to Tejasvi
02:33and if not, in all probability, defeated him because Tejasvi has done nothing there.
02:39But on reconsideration, we felt that since we are the only party which is fielding all 243 candidates
02:49in the Bihar election, the BJP has got 101, JDU has 101, Tejasvi has 143.
02:57We are fielding 243 candidates, all candidates.
03:02Therefore, Prashant's utility, purely in terms of electoral strategy, is far greater if he barnstorms the state
03:12as he is doing now, boosting the chances of our candidates across the state.
03:21Rather than being tied down to one constituency, even if it was for three or four days,
03:26given the time left for the elections, we felt his utility is much more.
03:31So, in doing what he can and will do for the 243 candidates which we have audaciously put up on all constituencies.
03:42And let me add to you, we are not a disruptor.
03:45We are a credible third alternative.
03:49Okay.
03:49Which Bihar needs.
03:51And that is the strength of our party.
03:54No, disruptor I meant in terms of, you know, just one more question coming back to him,
03:58Prashant Kishore not contesting.
04:00I get your point.
04:01I do see that, you know, how it's a young party.
04:04So, you know, the leader has to be there for all its contestants who are also very young, many of them.
04:10But, you know, Pavan, won't it have been a sign of confidence, you know, sort of a show of strength,
04:16so to say that, yes, I am conquesting Tejasvi, come what may, you know, whatever the results may be.
04:21Don't you think that would have been also a very strong signal to both Janisuraj's supporters as well as its party workers?
04:31Satish, it was a possibility we considered.
04:34But Bihar is not Delhi, where Arvind Kejriwal could stand against Srinath Dikshit.
04:40We are dealing with 243 constituents.
04:44And each of those candidates, although very credible, strong locally, come from a different cloth than the normal politicians of Bihar.
04:56Without Balu Mafia, Sharaaf Mafia, Musclemen, bagfuls of money, these are credible candidates with the respect and support of their constituency,
05:09but they need a catalyzing force.
05:11And that forces Prashant Kishore.
05:14He stands for the essential message of change.
05:18And therefore, we have decided that that is far better than proving the point against Srinath Dikshit,
05:26which we can do at any time, in any case, he can win an election whenever he wants.
05:32So we have to weigh what is the best, what is in the best interests of the party,
05:37rather than making one constituency a prestige fight at the cost of 242 constituencies.
05:44Coming back to what you were saying, the disruptor part, you know, what I meant by that,
05:48was that, you know, here is a party which is talking about a corruption-free administration,
05:53you know, the emphasis on health and education, development in praise of, you know,
05:58the criminal politics that happens in Bihar.
06:01So a disruptor in that sense.
06:03But, you know, Pawan, going by the ticket distribution of the other parties,
06:08do you think Bihar is ready for something like this?
06:10Or, I mean, when it comes to the cracks, it just goes back to the old ways?
06:15Yeah, that's the stereotype about Bihar.
06:18Bihar, which is projected by those vested interests who believe that Bihar can never change
06:23and can only be a supply of cheap labor, which is exploited in other states,
06:28living in miserable conditions.
06:31Bihar has been the cradle of change.
06:33You remember Jai Prakash Tarayan, Sampoor Pranthi?
06:36People believe that Bihar is incapable of changing.
06:40Biharis are completely tied down to caste loyalties, can't think beyond it.
06:46These are stereotypes.
06:47Tell me which state in the country does not have caste.
06:51And there are states which I know have greater caste equations than Bihar.
06:57So that, to say that Bihar is not ready for change, would be to completely ignore 30 years of misrule,
07:10misgovernance, and the neglect of Bihar.
07:14Listen, 30 years ago, where Bihar was, which was the poorest and most backward state in the country,
07:2030 years after Nitish, Lalu, and the various combinations in which they have been in power.
07:26Bihar is exactly there, the poorest and the most backward state,
07:31with the lowest per capita income, the highest rate of unemployment,
07:37the highest rate of out-migration for work of its youth.
07:43Yeah, that is exactly why Bihar is ready for change.
07:46And the same faces and the same parties using dharma and jati, caste and religion,
07:53use the people of Bihar as though they are puppets at the end of a string that they can pull
07:58to come back to power and they do nothing, to have institutionalized foundational change in Bihar.
08:05But if today Jan Suraj has a paid-up membership of 1,30,000,000, it is proof that people of Bihar
08:14were looking for an alternative, they want change, and Jan Suraj's entry has touched the right chord with them.
08:24So I don't understand what you mean when you say Bihar is not ready for change.
08:28You know, what I mean is that when you look at the other traditional parties, say, candidate list,
08:33or, you know, the kind of seed distribution that is happening in terms of which caste is this region prominent in, etc.
08:40So, I mean, it is a very going, or on the other hand, is welfarism, 10,000 rupees to each family,
08:47a job for every person in the government from, you know, these kind of schemes.
08:52I mean, it's both in terms of PBs or welfarism, as well as the caste equations, the rest of them
09:00still seem to be 30 years ago, what they were 30 years ago.
09:05Yes, they haven't changed, but Bihar has changed.
09:09Because finally, the people of Bihar, however poor, however backward the state may be,
09:15people of Bihar realize that enough is enough.
09:20They've had enough of these people.
09:22Today, raveries and jumlahs are raining down.
09:26I mean, for the NDA to transfer one hour before the moral code of conduct comes in,
09:3410,000 rupees to 21 lakh women by direct benefit transfer.
09:39It's not only unethical.
09:42Frankly, it's against the spirit of the constitution, because it is straight bribery.
09:47But the people of Bihar see through it.
09:49Prashant Kishore has repeatedly been saying they will throw money at you to get votes.
09:54Give the money.
09:55It's your own money coming back, which you have paid as bribe.
09:58People, if they have seen through that game, then Jan Suraj is going to do extremely well.
10:06If they have not, we will see in which case Jan Suraj will begin the fight again.
10:12But one thing is very clear.
10:14The kind of politics Bihar has seen for the last 30 years, ideology less, no morality, complete corruption,
10:25no governance, no governance, misrule, and crime.
10:33It cannot continue anymore.
10:35And I think in this time, in this election of the youngsters, we stay to, you know, call, to make the youth as a homogenous group.
10:46I mean, within them, there are the same fissures of caste, of religion, of region that existed in the older generation.
10:55No, no, the youth and Bihar is demographically a very young state.
11:00The youth are aspirational.
11:02The youth resent the fact that there is no education.
11:08What's the name?
11:08If there is a school, there is no teacher.
11:10If there is a teacher, there is no school.
11:12If they are both, there is no teaching.
11:13The youth resents the fact that Bihar, which was the cradle of civilization and once called the dharti of jnan,
11:20the land of knowledge, is today universities and colleges, which can only produce people who are unemployable.
11:29They resent the fact that they have to leave their state, their home, their families, and go out,
11:3450, 60 lakh of them, to get miserable jobs at miserable salaries.
11:40They are angry at the fact that over term, Bihari is still a pejorative.
11:44Because Prime Minister Modi builds, has investment summits in Gujarat, vibrant Gujarat,
11:52but in Bihar what he says is, more trains, faster trains, to take shrammics, labor from Bihar.
12:01Five lakh Biharis work in Surat.
12:03What has the NDA, double engine, circa done for Bihar?
12:07I want to ask you, one-third of Bihar lives below the poverty line of a state of 14 crore people,
12:15earning less than 100 rupees a day, fighting to get one meal a day.
12:20Bihar has the lowest per capita income.
12:22So you think that most youngsters, I mean, the youth who can constitute, I mean,
12:27most of them see this frustration and would want to break free?
12:32In my view, a large number will.
12:37I am not saying caste does not matter.
12:40Caste matters in every election, in every state in India.
12:44But I am saying that to believe that no state can ever, in perpetuity,
12:51rise above caste for change, which is for its own benefit,
12:56of its own people, is a misnomer.
12:59It has happened in other states, it can happen in Bihar,
13:02and it is likely and perhaps will in Bihar during this election.
13:06You know, as you were saying, that this is the, yours is the only party
13:10which has actually fielded 243 candidates and all the constituencies.
13:16Many of them are, you know, very young.
13:18I think most of them contesting for the first time.
13:21From various walks of life to, with not a very, you know, political background, so to say.
13:26How do you think they can weather, you know, this might, the financial might of, you know,
13:31the BJP, the NDA or the, you know, the entrenched sort of political machinery of, say, an RJD
13:39or from the Mahagat Pandan?
13:42I get your question.
13:45Their USP is the fact that they are not more of the same.
13:51Their USP is that they are the backing of the people.
13:54Their USP is that they have talents other than merely being head of one corrupt lobby
14:01or the other or being Muslim.
14:04That's their USP.
14:05Prashant Kishore himself is a new entrant in politics.
14:08Please see the kind of crowds he gathers spontaneously during his Padhyatra
14:14and now during the Badlavi Yatra.
14:16He's not heading a Balu Mafia.
14:18He's not heading a Sharab Mafia.
14:19People come to listen because they want the change.
14:25And that is the USP of our candidates.
14:29They are usually, most of them are educated.
14:32They are respected.
14:34They have something to contribute to society.
14:37They are not there only for the power.
14:40They are there because they are the kind of people who should be representatives
14:45in the assembly.
14:49That is our strength and we are proud of it.
14:51Prashant Kishore has said anything less than 150 seats would be seen as defeat
14:57for the Jan Suraj party.
14:59You know, Pawan, you're a practical man.
15:01You're quite realistic in, you know, getting estimates.
15:04What is a realistic figure really that one can think of for the Jan Suraj?
15:09And can you walk, you know, take us through a few of the seats
15:13where you're very confident, like why?
15:15No, no, I cannot and will not, because of shortage of time, do a micro-analysis too.
15:22But let me make a broader point to you, Satish.
15:25What Prashant Kishore has said is that if the message for which he and the Jan Suraj party
15:35have worked incessantly for the last three years, which is politics of issues, jobs, education,
15:48health, out-migration, corruption, change, but love, issue-based politics
15:59and the need for change, if this has percolated down to the people
16:06in the backdrop of 30 years of this complete misrule of Nipish Lalu plus allies
16:15at one time or the other, then we will sweep.
16:19Then if we get 125 or 130, well above the majority mark, he will consider it a defeat.
16:29Then our numbers will be in the vicinity of 150 and counting.
16:34But if this message is not percolated in, Prashant himself is the first to say,
16:39we'll get 10 seats, we'll just try for the next five years again.
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