00:00I mean, it seems like things are picking up. Are things picking up on your end?
00:03Things are picking up on our end. I think since the short of Q2, we've seen an uplift, especially across buy-side.
00:12Sell-side front office has always been active, but mainly across corporate, retail and private banking wealth.
00:18Not so much yet on IBD, in spite of the recent improvement across IPO markets.
00:24Okay, talk to us more about buy-side then. What do you think is driving that demand on your end?
00:31A lot of asset managers are starting to pick up, especially those with the focus in retail funds.
00:37There's also a lot of Chinese clients bringing the money to Hong Kong and taking it outbound.
00:43So there's a lot of money there, whereas startups or they could have existing shops in Hong Kong and the money is flowing in.
00:50You mentioned that you're not quite seeing an uptick in front office investment banking roles, despite what we're seeing in the IPO market. Why not?
00:57I think the uptick has only been more recent.
01:02And bearing in mind, front office still has a lot of employees within, right?
01:07So I think the people who are currently holding jobs would be happy to see that the market is improving,
01:12but it hasn't quite translated into creating new jobs for new people coming in yet.
01:18What about budgets and packages? What are you seeing as far as that's concerned?
01:21This has been a challenging area.
01:24I think across the board, over the past 24 months, it hasn't quite picked up in terms of salary.
01:29But the irony is there is a new trend where candidates are expecting larger salary increments.
01:36And so there's a gap in between what employers are willing or able to offer and what candidates are expecting when they're making a move.
01:44Is it just about salary or what other factors are involved?
01:47Salary is a big one and probably the largest one we've seen over the last three decades.
01:53I think the last time I was here, we were just off the end of COVID.
01:58And at the time, you would get work-life balance, stability and flexibility being huge drivers.
02:05Over the last 18 to 24 months, we've seen salary being the biggest push factor of all.
02:12There's still a collective group of candidates where they still value stability and work-life balance.
02:18But salary is going to be the huge driver.
02:22And their expectations on increment is far above what market can afford.
02:26Okay, so give us a, not a specific example.
02:29So let's say, how much would candidates usually get in terms of increment if they move firms?
02:35Whereas if they stayed at the firm and just a natural increment year to year, just compare those two things for us.
02:41Okay, so if you stay within a company without a promotion, the inflation increment we've seen over the last few years is averaging anywhere between 1% to maybe 5%.
02:53I think there was one year where I remember it was moving into 2023 because it was off two bad years.
03:02The inflation adjustment was larger than usual.
03:05But over the last two years, it's still been between 1% to 4%.
03:08Now, that's without a promotion.
03:09If you make a change in job, right?
03:13In the past, the market can support 15% to 25% increment.
03:17That's base.
03:17That's base.
03:18That's on base salary.
03:19However, in the last two years, we haven't really been able to see that sort of increment.
03:24So you're looking at roughly 8% to 10%, maybe 15% if you're a really good candidate.
03:29And so the challenge is, employers are still open to paying that.
03:34However, candidates want more than that.
03:36And it's probably because they've been waiting for so long, the market hasn't been great, and they want that extra oomph when they make a move.
03:44So most candidates, you will find, when they first approach us, they're looking for 25% and above.
03:51And our clients simply are not offering that sort of budget nowadays with all the uncertainties in the market.
03:58Yeah, these candidates have got to reset their expectations in some ways, it seems.
04:02What do you see in terms of just Western financial firms versus some of the Chinese banks as well?
04:06Is the hiring activity any different?
04:10We see an increase across Chinese securities.
04:14The larger Chinese securities houses, they are being quite active, and they are prepared to go out to get good talent.
04:20Their bonuses are usually much more rewarding, starting from four months and above.
04:24However, base salaries will be shy of what the multinationals and the Western players can pay.
04:32And then obviously, you've got the brand in play, and Western players usually offer better flexibility, or you get a one day or two days work from home, whereas the PRC players don't.
04:42So when candidates assess these opportunities, those factors also come into play, although they were not the key drivers to begin with.
04:50Okay, what about the age-old question in Hong Kong?
04:54Is there still demand for non-Chinese-speaking expats?
04:59What's the market for that like?
05:02I will say there are probably less demand for those sort of professionals.
05:07However, if you're a senior executive and you do have your own clientele, or perhaps you have other things that you can offer to the company, it's not a no.
05:17It's just that naturally, when clients look for candidates, they always hope for the candidate to be trilingual, where they can service all the areas that they look after.
05:28Final question.
05:29You guys put out this report recently.
05:31Is there anything that we missed just now that you think is important to note as we look ahead, trends to watch, what have you?
05:38Yes.
05:38So at Michael Page, we produce an annual salary survey, and it's a global survey done over 50,000 professionals.
05:48And so the theme of this year's results is clarity.
05:51And when I first read this report, it really resonated with me because the last few years has been nothing short of challenging for most.
05:59And what candidates have started doing is they start building up a certain level of ambiguity when it comes to their careers.
06:07So they're open to not knowing what their salaries would be, what their bonuses would be, or where their career would go because of all these uncertainties in the market, right?
06:16But then now, there's been a major shift in the trend.
06:20So they want answers, and it includes salary, bonuses, and career progression.
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