Grand Designs Deconstructed Season 01 Episode 03

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Transcript

00:00I've been obsessed with for my whole life, but also dive into some of the bigger themes that this show covers and look at the cultural impact that you, Kevin, have had on the world.

00:11I love it. I love you. And I love this episode. Honestly, this is one of my favorite ever episodes of Grand Designs.

00:19And that's extraordinary that it can happen 26 years on.

00:21I love you for saying that.

00:22But before we get there, I want to talk about the phone problem.

00:26Yes, it was my, shall we call it a burner phone?

00:28Well, in as much as if you're going on building sites all the time with a phone, you don't take your posh phone with you.

00:34So this is the phone number you give to the contributors because you don't want them bothering you.

00:37Kevin, can we have your number? Stay in touch.

00:39Yeah, sure.

00:39Because it's either going to catch fire or disappear in the mud underneath a tractor or a dumper wheel, or it's going to have a tree land on it, which is what happened.

00:47Quick health check on the phone. Still smashed?

00:49Yep. This, however, is not.

00:51This is a straight phone, and the one I had previously is a bent phone.

00:56Literally, 45 degrees, still working.

01:00I was amazed that you allowed that to happen.

01:02This was a challenge to see how precise the precision cutting of the timber was.

01:06Over 26 years of this show, though, there must be some accidents.

01:11It's small things.

01:11He says knowing that there were some accidents.

01:14You've got a list. It's more than I can remember.

01:15Let me tick them off, yes.

01:16Look, there was a period for about three years during and after lockdown when, because of various shielding requirements and so forth, I was driving a mobile home for three years.

01:26And there was one night when I was very late.

01:28I got to some place where I was pitched up for the night, and this is a time when hotels went open.

01:33So I put the camper van in a golf club.

01:34It was all arranged with the golf club.

01:35They weren't there.

01:36They'd shut.

01:36But I woke up in the morning, this terrible noise of diggers and drilling.

01:41I looked out my window, and the entire car park was being dug up by contractors.

01:44I couldn't get out.

01:45But did you not feel at home?

01:46Because that does sound like the start of an episode of Grand Designs.

01:48Well, it did help that I was able to press my credentials and say, guys, come on.

01:51And they said, oh, sorry, sir.

01:53They must have completely freaked out when they saw you on site.

01:56They laughed.

01:56And then I did manage to reverse one of the camper vans, because I got through three of them, into a big hinge on a gate, which was like a massive spike that just went straight through the back tyre.

02:07And there were all kinds of explaining to do as a result of that.

02:09That was on my list.

02:11And also on my list are the following.

02:13A drone accidentally flew into the sea.

02:15Not my fault, thanks very much.

02:16And a concrete pump went out of control and sprayed the main camera about ten years ago and completely wrote it off.

02:22Again, I was not in charge of the concrete pump, right?

02:24Yeah, but this is your show, so it's your name above the door.

02:27I could take some kind of collective responsibility here, but I'm not going to.

02:32Was it the screed pump?

02:33Yeah, it was a massive tube.

02:34Oh, I love those things.

02:35The moment you switch it on and nothing happens for three minutes and then suddenly all hell breaks loose and this giant snake whips around everywhere, spraying everybody.

02:44And when they're out of control, you don't want to go near.

02:46Now, every week on this podcast, I say every week, we know none too, but for the last two weeks I've been bringing a drinks pairing for the episode, something related to the location or the build.

02:57But this week I wasn't allowed, which I was alarmed at, but also quite pleased because I hear that you've paired a drink with the episode, so what have we gone for?

03:05This episode takes place in the middle of woodland in West Wales near the coast, and a neighbour of Abbey and Marcus, who own this little bit of woodland and a building in it, is a foraging distiller.

03:18It's called James, and this is a pale vermouth that he makes, and it's quite strong.

03:24It smells a bit like sherry, yeah?

03:25Yeah, that's really...

03:26Can you taste the seaweed?

03:28It's definitely there, isn't it?

03:29Oh, cheers.

03:32What do you see?

03:34Ooh!

03:34What are you getting?

03:36It is quite woody.

03:37It feels earthy and...

03:38Yeah, there's some dulse in there, seaweed, there's some wormwood.

03:41Not to be confused with woodworm.

03:44Mmm!

03:44And salt from the sea.

03:46This is fantastic.

03:47That's quite good, isn't it?

03:47Yeah.

03:48I love the fact where if you go around the country now, there are people distilling and making local botanicals.

03:53Mmm!

03:54Delicious drink, and the foraged nature of it links back to Abbey and Marcus and the timber which was sourced from near their house to build their house.

04:02Oh, hugely.

04:03I mean, we see Marcus foraging for trees.

04:06He goes and finds the right ones, the right shape, the right length.

04:09He's then processing, cutting, milling, leaving them to dry, and then building with them.

04:14And it's glorious.

04:14We see the cycle from tree to house on the same patch of land.

04:19I love that.

04:19And the difference, of course, between the planks, the floorboard, and the standing tree, the difference between them is human energy and craftsmanship.

04:26And at one point, Marcus says, doesn't he, he says, I have felled this, I have dried it, I have sawn it, I have planed it, I have brought it up, I have cut it to length, I've positioned it.

04:35Now I've got to bloody well oil it and polish the thing, you know?

04:39When I was watching this one, the reason I say it's one of my favourite ever is because if I was going to do a grand designs, I'd want to do something like this.

04:44And I go, it's outdoors, it's completely opposite to my life currently, it's a real escapism, it's off-grid, it's creative and slightly wacky, and there's no plan, and the budget is tiny, and sort of against all the odds.

04:57But who cares, we're just going to do a really lovely thing and sort of return to nature.

05:01So yeah, let's talk about the one planet development.

05:03What is this?

05:04What's going on here?

05:05So for this, we rewind 20 years, and a little booklet produced by WWF UK and a charity called Bioregional, describing how, as a planet, we use our Earth's resources at a rate which is unsustainable.

05:21So at the rate of consumption that we currently have, we need one and a half planets, but actually in the UK, we need, just for our lifestyle, two and a half planets.

05:29The argument therefore runs that we need to be conserving our resources, right?

05:34And the lovely thing about one planet development is that it takes that philosophy and it makes it real, it makes it into a planning policy that helps people move towards those goals.

05:43All these things which now have formed part of the United Nations development goals, right?

05:46So it all started with One Planet Living, really.

05:49There are 53 of these projects, and the policy's been around since 2010, and that's so few.

05:54This is very hard to do, though, right?

05:55It's incredibly hard to do, because it's one thing to build a house, it's another to change your life and your lifestyle as you're building, and then commit to a five-year deadline for those changes to take effect.

06:06So you need to be really kind of committed and quite hardcore about that.

06:09I mean, also, the other thing here is that we saw Abby and Marcus, who are members of a food-growing cooperative, you know, already kind of engaging with growing their own food.

06:17And, of course, if you're living in a three-bedroom semi and you're trying to retrofit that to this kind of standard, you'd be calling into question how you live, what you do for a living, and how the kids get to school, all that stuff.

06:28It can sort of blow your mind.

06:29I mean, on top of that, you're trying to build a house, right?

06:32So it's amazing that anybody even follows it.

06:34But what it's doing is showing its examples, and the reason I love this film so much is that we can see how we ought to be living 20, 30 years from now, all of us.

06:44Well, it's inspirational as well because you watch that and you think, OK, well, I can't possibly make all those changes now, today.

06:52It's a good example of changing little bits of your life and actually just trying that out.

06:56And actually, if everyone just changed a little something, you go, oh, actually, that's OK.

06:59I can compromise there.

07:00I can compromise here.

07:01They're setting a great example for all of us.

07:04So do you want to buy a bit of woodland now and build a shack and get a chainsaw?

07:08I was sort of horrified that after five years of sorting out their grand design, they're still being audited.

07:14But I have to say, having travelled around Europe and seen how people do it elsewhere, that idea of auditing is something that Europeans find really normal.

07:22It's just the British find it really weird.

07:24Look, we move into homes and we control the heating by turning everything up to full and then opening the windows.

07:29Right, that's not passing the audit.

07:30It's certainly not, but it is a very British way of thinking.

07:32Now, the targets, I was really fascinated to learn about these targets, that they have to hit.

07:3765% of the household's basic needs must come from the land.

07:4165% is vastly more than most people.

07:43Food, water, energy and income.

07:45Yeah.

07:45The majority of that income should be generated from the land.

07:48Yeah.

07:49Buildings should be built from local materials and should be off-grid and be very low carbon to run.

07:53And then emissions in general limit your travel and your fossil fuel use as well.

07:59That's the hard one because it's all very well having an electric car.

08:03But if you've got a family, you've got kids, you know, as a household, you've got a responsibility.

08:08And so you've got to inculcate the whole family into this kind of new philosophy, this new way of living.

08:13And thinking, I think it's hard for kids.

08:14It's hard because of the social pressures from friends and so on.

08:17And even as adults, you talk to your mates, where are you getting on holiday?

08:20I'm going to Lanzarote.

08:21Okay, how are you getting there?

08:22Well, we're going to swim.

08:23Horse.

08:24We joke about it.

08:25But actually, reducing our carbon footprint individually as households is really, really important.

08:30I have to say, however, the Climate Change Committee said that individual households can affect about 20% of their total carbon footprint.

08:38But that it's up to government and policy and business to change the other 80%.

08:43But I think it's incumbent upon us all to try and do what we can for what we are responsible for.

08:47So not only are there loads of targets they have to hit, they have to do a huge planning document, and then they get audited five years later.

08:54But actually, when that's all sorted, building in woodland is very difficult in itself.

08:59I mean, literally, it's making a rod for your own back, isn't it?

09:01Because on the one hand, that's how they're going to make a living, is using the woodland.

09:04But that means they've got to build in the woodland as well.

09:07Marcus, of course, is brilliant with timber, as is Simon, his business partner.

09:10So you see them kind of wrangling this thing and seeing this building emerge from Marcus's head, as it were, you know, with very few drawings.

09:17That's the thing I really related to with Marcus.

09:19Yes, medieval way of building.

09:20Well, it's not medieval.

09:21It's just wouldn't be able to concentrate to do the plans and I can't draw.

09:24So I go, I think maybe that there and this there and that could be nice and maybe the roof like that.

09:29And I loved that.

09:30It was really free.

09:31At the same time as building to really high standards.

09:34So he's got super insulated walls and he's got mechanical ventilation.

09:37So he's kind of had to make it all airtight and it's complicated.

09:41It's technical.

09:41I think with Simon's help, you know, Simon's very much the detail man.

09:44I think that the pair of them are fantastic design partners.

09:47Off-grid living.

09:49Could you do it?

09:50Well, yes, because when you think about what off-grid is, it means that you're not connected to the services.

09:55So it's quite specific.

09:56Like you've got your own power, solar.

09:58You've got your own sewage.

09:59OK, so you put in a reed bed.

10:01I might be lucky enough to have a well or a water supply.

10:03And you build in such a way that you're super insulated, so your energy consumption really reduces.

10:07So all of that is entirely doable.

10:09The great difficulty comes in moving towards the one planet position.

10:13And Wales has this massive objective of trying to, in the next 25 years, get to a position where they are meeting one planet objectives as a nation.

10:24I don't know how you do that, but it's something to aim for.

10:26Kevin, it's time for adverts, and I want you to show me the ways.

10:30How do I get into the ad break in the grand design style?

10:34It's always with suspense.

10:35OK.

10:35So it might be, the windows were meant to be here last week.

10:39The windows were meant to be here last week.

10:42And whenever Janine phones the company, no one picks up.

10:46And whenever Janine phones the company, no one picks up.

10:52That's it.

10:52See you in a minute.

10:53See you in a minute.

10:56See you in a minute.

11:27We've had time to relax into it, enjoy it.

11:29Yeah, I still get the feeling like coming down the drive now and you see it.

11:33Oh, that's a really nice house.

11:34Who lives there?

11:34And then you remember, oh, it's my house.

11:37Especially when the fairy lights are on in the night.

11:39It just feels lovely to come back to.

11:41It's a lovely feeling.

11:42What a wonderful summary.

11:44That's the nicest feeling.

11:45You go, oh, I'd love to live there.

11:47Oh, wait, I do.

11:48Yeah.

11:49Because you can talk about the one planet development policy and green eco living and the idea of selfless sustainability.

11:56But actually, in amongst all of that, really important is the romance of this house and where it is.

12:03And I think that's such an important thing because it reminds you what matters when we build.

12:07Well, that's why I was immediately hooked into this episode and thought, this is a bit of me.

12:12This is on course to becoming an all-time classic and I do think it's an all-time classic episode of Grand Designs.

12:17And I've watched every single one of them many, many times and I love your house.

12:20I'm incredibly jealous of it as well.

12:22You say that to me.

12:23He's telling the truth.

12:24You know, off camera, Greg's been kind of eulogising this project.

12:27I think he's trying to move in.

12:29Yes.

12:30Well, actually, look, you've teed me up perfectly.

12:32Would it be weird if I came round for an outside bath at some point?

12:35Of course you can, yeah.

12:37I mean, I love a bath.

12:38That outside bath looks unbelievable.

12:40Is it big enough for you?

12:41Greg's seven foot nine, right?

12:43So in a long bath, I can't remember.

12:44Make it L-shaped so I can fold around.

12:46All of that.

12:47I do recommend the outside bath.

12:49It is like one of the things that kind of stayed with the, we had a little tester kind of off-grid living for a couple of years.

12:55There was some great stuff, but it was hard work.

12:57But the outside bath was just like one thing when you really wanted to keep.

13:00And yeah.

13:01I like to sit on there with the phone app that tells you all the birds as well.

13:04Sit in the bath and you go, oh, there was a...

13:06Oh, lovely.

13:07Yes.

13:08All of this.

13:09All of that.

13:09Yeah, it's just being outside, isn't it?

13:11Being in warm water, but outside in the fresh air and looking at the sky.

13:16It's one of those secret experiences that when you've done it, you realise how fundamental it is to human existence.

13:22Yeah.

13:22Cleaning.

13:22I've got an outdoor shower at home.

13:25Have you?

13:25Yeah.

13:26The outdoor shower is one of the things I've always wanted in my life.

13:29Ever since I had an outdoor shower once and I thought this is the way to live.

13:32It's just small pleasures.

13:33The thing I really love still now is like every morning kind of getting up and just the feeling of like walking on the floorboards.

13:38Like they don't creep for one thing.

13:39They're really beautifully made and they just feel amazing.

13:42And people talk about that grounding experience, but it just really feels like it.

13:45There's a wonderful dog in the episode as well.

13:48How's Domino?

13:48Domino's fine.

13:49Does Domino love it?

13:49In fact, last night the girl's like, look, there's a fox on, we don't really have a lawn, but right in front of the house.

13:55And we had a few moments looking at a really bright red fox and then Domino got whiff of it and barked it away.

14:02We're supposed to be embracing the biodiversity, so we're like, Domino, it's not a code red, it's okay, you can stand down.

14:07Yeah, you've got to tell Domino about the audit because she can blow the whole thing for you.

14:10She's messing it up.

14:12Yeah.

14:12I have to say, Domino is great in the film because ordinarily when you're filming a conversation, you've got one or two cameras.

14:19One camera's on the person that's talking, one camera's looking for a reaction shot from the other person.

14:23But most of the time we had a camera trained on Domino because whatever anybody was saying, she would react to it.

14:29She was like, you know, it was the best.

14:31She's in the film quite a lot.

14:32I'm actually sad she's not on the call.

14:34She was, she was in the car really, yeah, could have had a hit.

14:36You're not at home now.

14:37I know this because that's not your home.

14:39That's your workshop, is it?

14:40Yeah, for the main reason is that Wi-Fi is pretty ropey at the house and the girls constantly remind us of that.

14:47Well, I love how excited you were by the whole thing, both of you.

14:50The idea of just designing this thing and not really doing too many drawings and just going, yeah, I think that's what we're going to do.

14:56We're going to learn on the job.

14:57We're going to watch some YouTube videos and we're going to really go for it.

15:00It felt like a very heart-led project.

15:03And I wonder, Abby, whether you thought at any point, I wish there were some slightly better drawings of this and there was a bit more of an idea.

15:12Or was that part of the joy of the whole thing is that it was created sort of through passion and just, yeah, that would be good.

15:19Let's go for that.

15:20Yeah, I mean, I guess we've been married for how long?

15:2315 years.

15:2315 years, yeah.

15:24I know what he's like.

15:26Yeah, I kind of also have faith in that.

15:29But I think it was really reassuring to know that he was working with Simon as well.

15:32I think you probably get a nice sense in the programme of their relationship and, like, how that works.

15:36And Simon was kind of keeping him accountable.

15:37It would have happened without Simon, but it wouldn't have been finished and it wouldn't have been really so good.

15:44And I just knew that I could totally rely on him for so much stuff.

15:47So it is a massive thank you to Simon.

15:49The only thing is I'm just not quite sure how everything works.

15:52I wish he'd kind of, like, just explain some of the systems to me a bit more.

15:55So I was thinking the other day, like, in terms of the heating and the electricity and the...

15:59If anything happens to Marcus, like, I'm going to be scuffed.

16:01He's sort of keeping that close to his chest.

16:03And Simon, I'm sure, understands his way around this stuff too.

16:06But obviously it means from now on that neither of them can travel together.

16:09One of them always has to be separated from the other just in case of an accident.

16:12It's a love story between them, yes.

16:14Sort of.

16:15Have you found any of the new ways of living difficult to get used to?

16:18What are the trickier bits of it?

16:20Just last week we've had loads of rain.

16:23All the summer it's just tonnes of sunshine, so too much power.

16:26And then just last week, suddenly I'm starting to monitor it a bit.

16:29Or, you know, I just sort of said to the girls, like, oh, maybe we won't put the washing machine on today.

16:34Let's see what the sun's doing tomorrow.

16:36And I just had this, it's bad enough living in the middle of the bloody woods.

16:41Let alone having to, like, not use a hairdryer.

16:44So pressure from them.

16:45Whereas I quite like it.

16:46I quite like looking at the forecast going, oh, we can do a lot of washing tomorrow.

16:49Yeah, and I guess also, like, you can ask us in, like, the winter solstice, you know.

16:54Like, at the moment it's still kind of all right, isn't it?

16:56But I've been amazed by how little we've had to really think about it.

17:00Like, actually, once we connected or we had a quarter of the solar connected,

17:03then we realised we were really sort of running low on power.

17:04So we got the rest of it connected.

17:06And actually, we haven't had to make those compromises or those sacrifices.

17:08But by December...

17:10December, whether we have Christmas lights is going to be the big thing, isn't it?

17:14Yeah.

17:14What it is good for, though, is Halloween.

17:16Yes.

17:16In other words, it's immediately spooky.

17:18Yeah.

17:18So that's just candles and the girls can have a great Halloween party.

17:22And that makes up for it, you know.

17:23They have, for the first time, because initially they were absolutely like,

17:27no, we don't want to bring our friends back here.

17:29This is really embarrassing.

17:30You know, they're great for managing your ego, teenagers,

17:32in the sense that you just get it absolutely eviscerated.

17:35But one of them has just sort of brought a friend back the other day

17:38and, you know, wanted to say, I want someone to come back here.

17:40This is my home.

17:41So...

17:41They're warming up.

17:42Yeah, they're warming up to it.

17:43Unlike the house, which is going to cool down quite quickly in the winter.

17:46Before you were here, we were saying nice things about you.

17:49And we were talking about how inspirational and admirable this is.

17:54So I do think that there's going to be a huge impact

17:56that projects like this have on people,

17:58even though your kids might immediately go,

18:00oh, but they're hairdryer.

18:02But, like, they realise that that's a luxury and that takes energy.

18:05And when you make the energy, you preserve it in a different way, I guess.

18:08So what you're doing, I think, is genuinely remarkable

18:11and full of admiration for you both.

18:12Do you feel like pioneers?

18:13Do you feel as though that you've been entrusted with this opportunity

18:17to experiment, to find a way that will help other people?

18:21What's your view about it?

18:22I don't really think of us as pioneers at all.

18:24But I suppose the reason why we went on Grand Designs

18:27was to show that you could live this lifestyle,

18:30but in not the stereotypical way, I suppose.

18:32I wanted the house to be a little bit more design-led

18:36and less of that stereotypical off-grid sort of feeling

18:39so that people could maybe aspire to it and go,

18:41oh, right, you don't have to look or feel like that

18:44to live that kind of lifestyle.

18:46Yeah, it's quite polarising, isn't it, that debate?

18:48And you often come up against that, well, you know,

18:50we can't all live in caves.

18:51And there was a bit of an impetus there to kind of go,

18:53well, you don't actually have to live in a cave.

18:54You know, you can live in a really, really nice house.

18:56And you can live a modern life that is sort of stylish,

19:00but it's just pared back environmentally.

19:02It's just more simple.

19:03And it's more connected to nature.

19:04And actually, that's just genuinely nicer for you as well.

19:08It's a subtle thing, but because all the materials we use

19:10were all the best environmentally.

19:12But there is a sort of feeling in the house.

19:14It feels nice.

19:15I don't know what it is, whether it's the forest

19:17or it feels good in there,

19:19because the lime plaster, the natural wood.

19:22The wood would be very happy with what you've made for it,

19:24I'd say.

19:24I loved it.

19:25Do you know what?

19:26It's really good to see you both,

19:27because you look both well.

19:28I was tired at the end.

19:30You were very tired.

19:31Poor man, yeah, yeah, yeah.

19:32But thank you so much, Marcus and Abby.

19:34Lovely to have you on the podcast.

19:36And have an amazing winter, batten down the hatches.

19:39Just rig up that bicycle, Marcus, you know,

19:41to the dynamo, and you'll be fine.

19:43Lots of love to you.

19:45Thanks so much, guys.

19:46Take care.

19:46Bye-bye.

19:49Hold them away.

19:50Lovely.

19:50What a life.

19:51Delightful people.

19:52They are both extraordinary human beings.

19:55The woodland life looks good on them.

19:56It does, doesn't it?

19:57Shall we do some questions?

19:59So many people want to ask you questions,

20:01which is reassuring,

20:02because it means that people are watching and listening.

20:04Margie from southern New Zealand says,

20:07Kia ora, Kevin.

20:08Kia ora.

20:08So what is your grand design for your life?

20:12You show us so many others.

20:14Can we turn the camera on you this time?

20:16Nope.

20:17For all kinds of reasons,

20:18because it would be a distraction, wouldn't it?

20:21Oh, like, here's my kitchen.

20:22Yeah, but it's not like the ones you...

20:23No, it's not like the ones we showed you last week.

20:24But the point is, it's my kitchen.

20:26It's my house.

20:26It's my home.

20:27And I'll do it the way I want.

20:28Thank you very much.

20:29Go away.

20:30And there's a sort of natural prurience we all have

20:33to understand what people's homes are like, you know.

20:35And I think my job is to show lots of examples

20:39of other people's houses.

20:40If all I did was talk about my kitchen units,

20:43that would colour my work.

20:44Because people would be thinking,

20:46well, it's not like the one you've got, Kevin,

20:47in your house.

20:48No, it's not.

20:49That's not the point.

20:49I'm there to celebrate other people's work.

20:52And besides which,

20:52it would also kind of trash my reputation instantly.

20:55I've got to uphold standards.

20:57Can you describe one bit of your house?

20:59Yeah.

21:00Okay.

21:00Give us a little something.

21:01Yeah, no, no.

21:01I've got three things mattered to me.

21:02One is a view of the sunset.

21:04One is some kind of hammock arrangement somewhere.

21:06Nice.

21:06And one is some kind of place

21:07where I can sling my hammock

21:08to not get wet and sit and watch the sunset.

21:11Ah.

21:12And I have now all three of those things.

21:15It took me nearly all my life.

21:16It took me 65 years to get those three things.

21:19Lovely things.

21:20Jared's in New York.

21:21Hi, Jared.

21:22Thank you so much for tuning in from New York.

21:24What is one part of the home building process

21:26that you just hate and avoid at all costs?

21:28That one thing that you personally cannot stand.

21:31Three-letter word.

21:33Mud.

21:34Mud.

21:35Mud.

21:36I find mud in a field at home.

21:37I now have to sidestep it.

21:39I've got a pair of shoes in my suitcase here

21:41covered in mud.

21:42I've got 15 pairs of boots

21:43covered in various mud.

21:45Yeah.

21:45I can't escape it.

21:46So if you were to restart Grand Designs

21:48from the very beginning,

21:49every single build is June in Tuscany.

21:52Yeah.

21:53Wouldn't that be nice?

21:54Kevin, I've thoroughly enjoyed this episode.

21:57Oh, me too.

21:58I mean, not least because

22:00when you relate to people

22:01and to the project,

22:02you feel a sort of bond there.

22:04And I can sense you feel that.

22:05Yeah.

22:06Yeah.

22:06I also feel this bond.

22:07Oh, bless you.

22:08And I really like it.

22:09Yeah.

22:09And we've also learnt

22:10you have a great vermouth,

22:12you have an outside shower.

22:14Yeah.

22:15And a burner phone.

22:16I had a burner phone.

22:18That is job well done from me.

22:20We'll see you next time.

22:21So we'll be back next week

22:22after Grand Designs,

22:24which is on at 9 o'clock on Channel 4.

22:26And incidentally, on Channel 4,

22:27you can also see pretty well

22:29every episode ever made.

22:31Plus, of course,

22:32find selected episodes

22:33on YouTube as well.

22:35See you then.

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