00:00For more on the situation in Gaza and the occupied West Bank, we're joined in studio by Uda Abourk, I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly, Uda, independent policy and peace strategist, former regional director also of the Alliance for Middle East Peace.
00:15Thanks so much for being with us on the programme. We heard their devastation in Gaza, aid trucks once again being allowed to enter, but with so many people, Uda, in so much terrible need, where do they even begin?
00:30I think we will need years to come in order to recover only on the physical part, let alone the emotional part and the trauma.
00:40But at this moment, I can't do anything other than just being relieved for the fact that at least the Gazans, the Palestinians in Gaza have time to breathe, have time to bury their loved ones and have time to mourn.
00:54And have some sort of dignified access to food.
01:01But this is not going to solve the problem.
01:05And I think this is the time for us to bring together all the energies in the world that could save more and more people in Gaza.
01:12And what do you think needs to be prioritised before we even talk about getting into the second phase of this ceasefire deal?
01:22I think we need to provide a horizon for a sustainable peace that is guaranteed by the region and the interlockers in the world.
01:32I think we need to refrain from having the space open only for the Americans.
01:38And with all the respect that I have for the Americans and being part of it, I don't think they have enough guarantee in order to make it hold or go to a place where it provides peace and security for all.
01:52And after a genocide where people lost their lives, I think the least we can expect is a sustainable peace plan that is guaranteed by the region and the Europe.
02:04The Europeans are working closely with the regional interlockers, and I think that's important.
02:10But the most important regional interlocker is the Palestinians themselves.
02:15We are not going to let it happen this time overlooking us.
02:19We will have to have a say over everything that has to do with Palestine.
02:24And are you and people in the Palestinian territories actually hopeful that this deal is going to last, that this ceasefire isn't going to be violated or that it won't break down over the next few days, the next few weeks?
02:37There are spoilers all the time to any deal in the world.
02:40And I think the only guarantee is to provide that horizon of a political solution.
02:45But we are hopeful because we cannot have any other option.
02:48We don't.
02:49We've tried all kinds of options to obtain, to achieve our national rights.
02:55And I think now with the support of the world and the free people of the free world standing by us, there is a huge possibility that we will enjoy peace and sustainability in the region.
03:08And how do we go about now rebuilding Gaza and who do you think should ultimately be governing it?
03:14We will build it.
03:16We will build it.
03:17We will rebuild it.
03:18And we should be the ones who are governing it.
03:21And there is no at all objection to having internationals monitoring, having a peace room in which if any of the spoilers intervene to spoil the deal, to get us to a point not to use bombs and to kill more people.
03:39I think we will be the ones who will rebuild with the help of the free world.
03:44And what kind of role then does the international community need to play, including Arab neighbours of Gazas?
03:52To make sure that they are not just money machine.
03:55They are not an ATM machine.
03:57And they also take into consideration that the Palestinians have agency and they are looking for ways in order to be the ones who rule and govern.
04:09And are you concerned at all that perhaps Donald Trump, he's invested right now, you know, we've seen him, so on his whirlwind tour of Egypt, also of Israel.
04:17Are you concerned, though, that he's not going to be there in terms of making a long term commitment to the future of Gaza and also the West Bank?
04:25I have to be honest with you and say I don't trust that he is going to continue doing that unless there is enough pressure from the world for him to continue doing that.
04:36The only party that I don't trust is the Israeli government.
04:39And we need someone who can use the leverage against this fascist government in order to respond.
04:46And I would also think that the Israelis should be the other guarantee.
04:49They are going to cast a ballot.
04:51They are going to go to the elections.
04:53And the question they will have to answer, whether they want to live in a region that has sustainable peace and justice for all, security for all,
05:02or they want to continue being part of a colonial project that completely failed in history and will fail in the future.
05:10And Uda, are you concerned that Israel, you know, just a few days into the ceasefire, is already accusing Hamas of violating the deal?
05:17Of course, I'm concerned because this man has political ambitions and he's already in campaigning mode.
05:25And I think he will use even the blood of the Jewish people in order to stay in power.
05:30There's concern as well within Gaza about Hamas, though.
05:34We've seen them publish a video where it looks like they're executing men on the streets.
05:39Does it suggest, though, I know we're at a very early stage of this ceasefire deal, a certain unwillingness to disarm?
06:06We've seen Donald Trump come in again, warning that if the militant group doesn't disarm, they'll be forced to do so.
06:13To their defense, they already said they will disarm and they will not have anything to do with governing Gaza.
06:19But I think the fact that there is no law and order in Gaza, they needed to intervene.
06:25I don't approve of the way they intervened.
06:28And the majority of the Palestinians don't approve it.
06:33I think they will have to find a way in order to regain trust in the Palestinian street.
06:38And Udo, where does all of this leave the occupied West Bank?
06:40That's where you yourself are from.
06:42The West Bank, I'm afraid, is going to be the prize for a future Palestine state in Gaza.
06:47And I am sure, depending on how the situation is going now and the rate of expansion of settlement and the fact that annexation is not creeping, it's actually happening.
07:00I am afraid that with no pressure from the Europeans and the Americans, the West Bank will be the prize to be paid for a Palestinian state in Gaza alone.
07:11We'll have to leave it there for now.
07:12Thank you so much, though, for coming in to speak with us on the programme tonight.
07:16That's Uda Abu-Arkoub, independent policy and peace strategist, also former regional director of the Alliance for Middle East Peace.
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