00:00Let's talk next to Yossi Meckelberg, a fellow with the Middle East and North Africa program at Chatham House, the think tank in London.
00:09Yossi, welcome back to the program. President Trump has declared that the war is over. Is it?
00:18Thank you for having me. We are in the Trump world in which he declares something, he creates some reality, at least in his own mind.
00:28And then he's using the American leverage in order for everyone to follow.
00:35I think there is a good chance that the war is over.
00:39I think for the first time we'll see some unity in the international community that wants to see the war over.
00:48The summit in Shalom Asher, for instance, definitely those who participate there will support it.
00:54I think the rest of the international community, but also, I think with the results of youth fatigue of this world, aspiration to see this over by both Palestinians and Israelis.
01:07Given the death toll and the appalling devastation, why has it taken so long to get here?
01:15I think this is an excellent question.
01:20And, you know, in our conversation in the past, over the last, you know, two years, many times, the focus should have been from a few weeks into this war on a ceasefire and a permanent one.
01:33It shows all of us, the weakness of the global collective security, the inability of the international community to bring conflicts to an end, until both sides are actually exhausted themselves.
01:51And eventually, and that's where President Trump deserves some credit, he at least was committed together with his staff to bring to an end, in addition to the ability to exercise power in a way that will lead to this result.
02:11The ceasefire deal was reportedly brokered by the United States, but, of course, with mediation by Turkey, Qatar and Egypt.
02:21Briefly, what role did each country play?
02:25These countries play a very important role because they are the ones that had the more leverage vis-Ã -vis Hamas.
02:35They could bring them to the table because Qatar, for instance, hosts them.
02:39Turkey supported Hamas for a long time.
02:43Egypt as a border and can exert influence on them.
02:46So I think that's actually when the concerted effort, when they all worked together, actually paid some dividends.
02:55What is the next step in the so-called Trump peace plan and how does that differ from past approaches from the United States?
03:05I think the next steps are the most important because we saw now the steps that I think for many of us was the obvious one, ending the war, having the hostages released, the detainees and the prisoners on the Palestinian side, having more humanitarian aid on big quantity entering.
03:24But then you move within the plan to the points that are more contentious.
03:28So, for instance, the decommission of weapons when it comes to Hamas.
03:32Israel withdrawing to the international border, assembling a new governance in Palestine.
03:41And as you go down all the points eventually, though it's not, the plan doesn't commit itself very clearly, but the idea of Palestinian self-determination.
03:52That's, of course, when the plan, because it's more than a plan, declaration of principles and aspiration, needs the details and needs negotiation.
04:02But most of it will need new leaderships in Israel and in Palestine, an international community that is focused and ready to ensure that this process here goes all the way to a two-state solution.
04:18Yossi, good to see you.
04:19Thank you so much for coming on the program.
04:20I'm Yossi Meckleberg, the fellow with the Middle East and North Africa program at Chatham House in London.
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