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In 2004, the FBI and NCIS needed to identify and catch an engineer who had been stealing U.S. Navy secrets for the Chinese government.
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00:00As a former FBI agent and chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, I had oversight of all 16 of our nation's intelligence agencies. My name is Mike Rogers.
00:11I had access to classified information gathered by our operatives. People who risked everything for the United States and our families.
00:21You don't know their faces or their names. You don't know the real stories from the people who live the fear and the pressure.
00:28Until now.
00:32It's not a fear as in petrified. It's more like, make sure you do everything you need to do.
00:41And don't have any mistakes or failures be because you didn't take that extra step. You weren't willing to put in the time.
00:50Fear of failure is motivating for me. If you fail in a counterintelligence area, it can have national implications.
01:08Failure at that level can mean lost lives.
01:18It's a very important value to me. Keeping people safe. Keeping Americans safe. Keeping this country safe.
01:27It's my job. It's my job.
01:31It's my job.
02:39I'm SSA Jim Gaylord.
02:41I supervise the counterintelligence squad in Southern California.
02:46We were called to headquarters.
02:49They didn't tell us what it was about.
02:51Before we could be exposed to the information we were given about this case, we had to be polygraphed.
03:03That's never happened to me before, so I knew that the information itself was very sensitive, so they were taking extra steps, steps that I'd never had to take before.
03:15Where did the information come from?
03:16I can't actually tell you how we got the information.
03:20I'm not trying to be coy, but we also have to protect our sources.
03:24We sat down and we were told that China was stealing U.S. naval secrets.
03:31Kevin Moberly is one of the first three agents that we had on this case.
03:39It was around 2003 that I joined the FBI, and immediately upon arriving to the squad, it was evident that our number one threat was China.
03:49Now the FBI is calling for your help in identifying Chinese spies amid growing evidence that China is now this nation's greatest intelligence threat.
03:58China, obviously, is a huge country.
04:00It's a growing country.
04:01It's asserting itself.
04:03Most information worth having is here in the United States.
04:06China is our largest counterintelligence threat, easily.
04:09What was clear from the beginning was the technology that was at risk was naval technology.
04:16The FBI headquarters asked NCIS headquarters to send an agent to support the investigation, and that happened to be me.
04:23The value that we bring to that FBI investigation is that we understand the technology.
04:28We understand the Navy platforms.
04:30I'm always motivated to protect the Navy's technologies that have that advantage.
04:34So we learned that there was a leak inside of Power Paragon, which is a subsidiary of L3 Communications, a huge defense contractor.
04:44About 95% of their work is U.S. Navy technology, mostly in electronics.
04:48The technology that was being leaked to China was Navy destroyer information and submarine information.
04:54In the beginning, we didn't know exactly who was the source of the leak at Power Paragon.
04:59We take a look at a number of factors.
05:04We look at travel.
05:06We look at access.
05:08After we had sifted through all the information, it came down to one person, and it was Chi Mac.
05:16Chi Mac was born in China.
05:21He moved to the United States with his wife.
05:25He became an engineer in Southern California in the 1980s as an employee of Power Paragon.
05:44Chi Mac was a very good electrical engineer.
05:50He was the go-to guy in Power Paragon.
05:52Chi Mac had extraordinary access and was highly placed at work.
05:58He was trusted by the U.S. government experts.
06:00He worked with them side by side.
06:02Chi Mac worked on some of the most sensitive Navy technologies, technologies that would take the Navy into the next century.
06:09We know that he gave the Chinese government information regarding the Virginia-class submarine, which is our newest sub,
06:14and DDX information, which is our newest destroyer, most advanced destroyer in the world.
06:22But the most important thing we were worried about leaving Power Paragon was quiet electric drive,
06:28which is a technology that is devoted to quieting the acoustic signatures of Navy ships, and especially nuclear submarines.
06:36A submarine is of no value if the adversary knows where it's at.
06:41Quiet electric drive would have given the Chinese a fingerprint for that sub's movement throughout the ocean,
06:48and allowed them to track it and eventually destroy it.
06:51If a foreign power knows the acoustic signature of a submarine, then they can kill that submarine.
07:06Quiet electric drive was at risk.
07:09It may have already gone to China or may soon go to China.
07:12So that's why there's a much greater fear in failing to catch Chi Mac.
07:20In 2004, the Chinese didn't have a strong Navy capability.
07:24They were really a brownwater Navy, a Navy that was able to operate in shallow water.
07:29And so that Chi Mac case shows the Chinese efforts to be able to expand their capabilities in the blue water.
07:35If these technologies are lost, then it means we don't have that edge.
07:39So God forbid, if there's ever a conflict in the Pacific that involves China with us on the other side,
07:47then I believe lost technology will cost U.S. lives.
07:52And that's one of the things that makes me angry.
07:56In the FBI, we have to follow principles, policies, and laws.
08:01And one of those is we have to have the evidence.
08:03Our greatest fear initially was, will we catch Chi Mac doing what we thought he was already doing?
08:11The thing that hit me hardest about this case was that we've got a man who came here for better opportunity
08:18and, in fact, was a spy sent by China to come here, pledge allegiance to the United States.
08:25He took an oath with the full intention of betraying it.
08:28He lived in this country for decades and was willing to put in danger members of our military.
08:34There was a lot of pressure on all of us.
08:37I wanted to stop that leak.
08:39I wanted to stop Chi Mac from providing any more information that would endanger U.S. Navy servicemen.
08:48That's why I wanted to catch him.
08:51And to protect our people.
08:53We decided to focus on Chi Mac and his wife, Rebecca,
09:13because all of the indicators at work narrowed it down to Chi Mac.
09:17He was the one who had access to the information that was being leaked to China.
09:21We have to have the evidence.
09:24Our greatest fear initially was, will we catch Chi Mac doing what we thought he was already doing?
09:31Now, the allegation itself is not enough to be able to conduct a search warrant into a house or to monitor their telephone.
09:38So on the Chi Mac investigation, we began by doing dumpster diving.
09:42That's one method that doesn't give notice to the person we're investigating, that we're involved.
09:50We look at it when they don't know we're looking at it.
09:52You're looking through trash that's been sitting there at least a week, usually in hot weather.
10:02There's maggots, there's smells, there's everything you can imagine.
10:05One of the ways that Gunner endeared himself to the others on the squad is,
10:13he wasn't above doing the trash either, and he volunteered to go and help.
10:16It's always funny to go home and my kids would ask me, how was your day?
10:18And I'd tell them I'd been dumpster diving all day.
10:21It didn't sound like a real respectable profession, but that's what we do.
10:25We realized that we needed to have 24-7 surveillance coverage of Chi Mac and his wife.
10:33We needed to understand where Chi Mac was, who his associates were, how he got from one place to another,
10:40where he went, and what he did when he went to those locations.
10:43In order to do that, you have to rely on just good old-fashioned physical surveillance.
10:49Chi Mac's life revolved around his work.
10:56He didn't have a social life that we could see.
10:58He didn't even keep in much contact with his brother, Ty Mac, who also lived here in Los Angeles, close to Chi Mac.
11:05Chi Mac would go home and he and his wife would spend long hours in there.
11:09Rebecca wouldn't leave the house without him.
11:14Rebecca would look out her window every day and spend lots of time in the house.
11:17We felt that maybe she was protecting something.
11:20She didn't leave the house unless she was guarding it.
11:24Chi Mac and his wife lived extremely simple lives.
11:27They cut costs everywhere they could.
11:32Small home, never improved upon, about 700 square feet total, counting the garage.
11:39Chi Mac made between $80,000 and $100,000.
11:42That's a fairly good living during that time frame.
11:44We would have discussions during the investigation about the fact that Chi Mac was a Maoist.
11:51And because of that, it dictated a frugal lifestyle.
11:54Chi grew up in a time of the Cultural Revolution, a time when Chinese academics were looked down on.
12:01That the labor movement, those laborers, were the ones that were going to forge the future.
12:05That lifestyle was something that was ingrained into both Chi and Rebecca when they were raised in China.
12:16As we do surveillance of Chi, he would regularly pull into a gas station.
12:21And we thought he was doing counter-surveillance because he would wash the windows every time he got gas.
12:28We felt that gave him a 360 view perspective of what was around him.
12:37In the end, in hindsight, he just didn't want to pay for a car wash.
12:44Chi Mac would travel every Saturday into a hardware store.
12:49So, I made the opinion that he was meeting with a foreign intelligence officer in there.
13:02But that turned out not to be the case.
13:04What it turned out is when we actually put a body in there, the Chi Mac was cheap.
13:08The store gave him free coffee, and that's why it went every week.
13:12Did you ever doubt that he was guilty?
13:15Sure.
13:16Sure.
13:16From time to time, we doubt.
13:19The investigation wasn't going well.
13:21I wasn't sure that we were on the right track.
13:25From the beginning of the case, we saw no communication between Chi Mac and anyone in China.
13:31But you have to be patient for your opportunity.
13:34If we push any more, we might reveal ourselves to Chi Mac.
13:38So, it's a waiting game.
13:39We're waiting for the next time he steals information and tries to send it to China.
13:45I believe Jim was under a lot of pressure.
13:48You have to remember, we were using a lot of manpower.
13:52There were times when I thought, are we going to reach the end before someone pulls the plug?
13:57That the case wouldn't advance quickly enough, and we would lose our resources and support.
14:06That worried me.
14:08At that point, I knew we needed to get a look inside his house.
14:12We had to develop the rest of the picture.
14:16After we started the trash and surveillance, we started writing up our affidavit for the FISA court.
14:22The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act allows national security organizations to conduct surveillance to detect foreign governments spying on the United States or committing terrorism.
14:36It's a court, much like a criminal court.
14:39So, in order to get the ability to monitor somebody's telephone, you have to have a warrant.
14:45And in it, it explains that I believe Chi Mac is committing espionage for the following reasons.
14:51After five months on the case, we got authorization to tap his telephone lines and to go inside of his house and do a covert search.
15:00We were listening to every phone call that came in and out of that house.
15:07Which led us to learn about a trip that he was taking to Alaska.
15:11When we found out that Chi Mac and Rebecca were going to Alaska, I believe the first thought in everybody's mind was he must be going operational.
15:18You know, potentially meeting a handler to give information.
15:23That's a very typical tradecraft for a spy.
15:26So, we took the safest course.
15:28We sent agents along with them who would watch them and make sure they didn't meet or pass any information to other people.
15:35And from what we could tell, they didn't pass any information.
15:38But the Alaskan crews, that was our opportunity, I knew, to go inside his house covertly.
15:45We had to see what he had stored, who his contacts were, if he had any letters or correspondence with people in China.
15:53That was an important moment in the case.
15:56To get inside.
15:59This was our opportunity to go in and see what he had.
16:01After five months on the case, we got authorization to tap his telephone lines.
16:21And to go inside of his house and do a covert search.
16:24Doing a covert or surreptitious entry into a home is a very complicated affair.
16:32It's not like the ninja movies you see.
16:34There was a local park that we had set up the command post in.
16:39That was the brains of the operation.
16:41That's where it all was going to basically be coordinated from.
16:45And I remember pulling into the park and kind of taking in the visual scene.
16:53You had these majestic trees.
16:58I was the first one there.
17:03And I would be lying if I said that I wasn't nervous.
17:07We had to be absolutely certain that we were able to get into the house, search the house, and get out of the house without being caught.
17:17In order to do that, we needed to make sure that we really fit into the natural patterns of that neighborhood.
17:22The FBI went so far as to obtain a van that looked just like Cheemac's van that we used to approach the home.
17:30The idea being if a neighbor were to look out, they would just assume that Cheemac was coming home and would go back to sleep.
17:35You need a huge number of people watching the neighborhood, making sure somebody doesn't walk up on you by accident.
17:42You've got to watch out for dogs and teenagers, as strange as it may sound.
17:47Teenagers can come and go at any time of the night.
17:49The dogs can be barking.
17:53Neighbors get up to smoke on their porch or use the bathroom.
17:57So it's a very complicated ballet of controlling when you go in and when you leave.
18:03You can't just come and go.
18:04I remember standing in the command post and taking stock of everything going on around me and then realizing just how complex this operation really was.
18:19All of the moving parts.
18:21Any one of those things fail and you're done.
18:24When you go inside the house, you can't leave a trace that you've been there.
18:29For instance, if the coffee table is very dusty, you can't scoot something because then you've left another trail in the dust.
18:37That if they really know their house, they're going to come back and say, how did that thing get moved?
18:42Literally, there was dust on things and the FBI would spray dust to replace the dust that had moved so it couldn't be detected.
18:52You leave the room exactly how you left it.
18:54Pretty impressive.
18:54When we went into Chimac's house, we were surprised at the amount of information that he had taken and stored in his home.
19:04This house was dense with documents.
19:07He had them stacked by the front door, on the kitchen table, in his bedroom, in his computer room, a second bedroom, all over the house.
19:16When I saw that much information in there, I felt validated.
19:21A lot of research, a lot of manpower had gone into this first entry into the house.
19:27And this was validation that, again, we were on to the right person.
19:31That we had a guy who was collecting information.
19:33And this is the information that we thought was at risk, that may have already gone to China or may soon go to China.
19:39The search of the house confirmed he was stealing information, but we didn't have the proof that he was committing espionage.
19:47And that would include giving it to a foreign government.
19:50We could prove that he stole it.
19:52We could prove that he traveled.
19:53But we couldn't prove that he traveled with the classified documents.
19:56That was the next step.
19:57That was the smoking gun that we needed to go to the next level.
20:00After the covert entry, the next big break happened when we recovered something from the trash.
20:12We were looking through G-Max trash for almost a year before we found any real high-value evidence.
20:19Amongst the trash, we found a lot of tiny little pieces of paper with Chinese characters on them.
20:23On that given day, Special Agent Jesse Murray from the FBI had, in the office, laid out a bunch of pieces of paper.
20:31And she was putting them together like a puzzle.
20:35And she called me over.
20:36She said, Gunner, can you help me with this?
20:39I remember making some joke about how I could read Chinese.
20:42But I caught the three letters at the bottom that said DDX.
20:45And I said, of course, that's about the Navy's next destroyer.
20:53We translated that note.
20:57And the note went from being a note to being a tasking list.
21:02Which clearly demonstrated that Chi-Mac was receiving guidance or direction to steal what he was stealing.
21:08A tasking list is something that the handler, the foreign government, gives the individual and says,
21:14These are the technologies we want.
21:17And in his case, he received two lists.
21:19The other list was typed in Chinese, specifically telling him,
21:24Collect this information on a disk, put it together, and then give it to us.
21:30We learned later that the tasking and instruction sheets originated from Chi-Mac's handler in China, Mr. Pu Pei Liang.
21:38The two sheets were delivered in an orange-yellow health book.
21:43Chi-Mac opened up the book, and inside were these two lists.
21:46I thought at the time we were extremely fortunate that Chi-Mac tore up a note that if he were stopping and thinking about it,
21:55he would have burned or shredded or disposed of in a way that we couldn't have found.
22:03Very little was ever in his trash.
22:05Bills, that sort of thing.
22:06To find that tasking list, one time, that was one of the big mistakes he made.
22:11When I found those two lists, and I knew that we had a tasking list and a set of instructions,
22:16that validated the whole investigation up to that point.
22:19I knew nobody would question our investigation, that we were on the right track.
22:24And I knew going forward that would mean we would continue to get resources to take it to its logical conclusion.
22:30We were looking through Chi-Mac's trash for almost a year before we found any real high-value evidence.
22:46Finding the trash with a tasking note and an instruction sheet was the most significant find we had,
22:52because it showed he was still spying for China.
22:59Finding the trash with a tasking note and an instruction sheet was the most significant find we had,
22:59finding the tasking notes in his trash, allowed us to use more obtrusive investigative tools.
23:05During this investigation, Chi-Mac and his wife took three vacations, which gave us opportunities to go into the home.
23:11The first opportunity, we went into the home and we saw all the paperwork that he had stacked up from work.
23:17The second opportunity we went in, we planted microphones in the house.
23:21The third time we went in is when we put cameras in the house as well.
23:25Installing closed-circuit television cameras was a challenge.
23:28You can imagine how well you know your own room.
23:32To be able to go in to that room and install something as invasive as the equipment needed to record closed-circuit TV,
23:40it's difficult.
23:42We watched their daily life, what was going on at home, and how they dealt with each other as husband and wife was really unusual.
23:54We never saw an inkling of affection between them.
23:59There was no hand-holding, pat on the back, hug, kiss, none of that.
24:04That kind of relationship kind of made us wonder, is this actually a marriage in the ordinary sense,
24:12or is it more of a contract, more of a partnership, more of something that the Chinese government had put together to serve its own purpose?
24:19In our investigation, we also started following his brother, Ty Mack, his sister-in-law, Fook Lee, and even his nephew, Billy Mack.
24:28We knew that Ty Mack played a role because the surreptitious searches gave us information about who Ty Mack was and what his role was.
24:38We believe that Ty Mack and his family were sent to the United States in 2001.
24:43Ty Mack's job was to be the courier of information that Chi Mack stole.
24:47Ty Mack was an integral part of this operation.
24:53Now that we had to list, we continue every technique that we've been using, waiting for the next time he steals information and tries to send it to China.
25:03But you have to be patient for your opportunity.
25:06You don't know if it's going to be next week and you have to be ready for that, or it could be next year.
25:14We received a phone call from the surveillance personnel that they had some video of Chi Mack and Rebecca sitting at the dining room table copying disks.
25:26That was the day we knew, okay, big break, something is going on here.
25:33In the surveillance tape that we saw of Chi Mack and Rebecca making the disks, Chi Mack was making the disks, but Rebecca was constantly over his shoulders nagging him about what he was doing wrong or how he could do it better.
25:44And it was quickly discovered that in fact they were discussing copying disks and giving them to his brother,
26:13how they were going to take these disks back to China.
26:16Based on information we had, we believe the quiet electric drive, the very sensitive Navy submarine data is on that disk.
26:24Ty Mack then took that disk home and gave it to Billy, his son, who was in charge of the IBM ThinkPad laptop, which had the encryption program on it.
26:33Ty Mack wasn't so good at doing the encryption on his own.
26:36So we don't believe Billy was originally part of the plan, but Ty Mack asked his son to help him encrypt the information that his uncle Chi Mack had given him.
26:47We found out that Fook Lee had made some calls and then called her husband and said, we're going to China.
26:53The very next day, Ty Mack called the handler, Pu Pei Liang, in China.
26:57Pu Pei Liang was happy.
27:11He said, hey, when you land, call my cell phone number.
27:14It's a number we saw repeatedly throughout the case.
27:17And they hung up.
27:19And a few days later, Ty calls his brother Chi Mack and says, brother, I'm going to China.
27:24We briefed the head of Navy nuclear reactors, and he says, the quiet electric drive can't leave the United States.
27:44You must stop it from leaving the United States.
27:46QED was too sensitive and was the deciding factor that we had to make an arrest then.
27:54Quite honestly, there was a lot of relief because we finally hit the stage in the investigation where, aha, we got him.
28:03We finally got him.
28:05And now we get to do something about it.
28:07When we hear this whole series of events go on in the past week, we're very excited.
28:14Chi Mack has been stealing information that puts U.S. lives at risk.
28:18And we were going to stop him.
28:24We were going to finish with a complete case, a trial, and a conviction.
28:34He compiled three disks of information, one-to-one disk, with the intention to give it to the Chinese government.
28:43And we believe the quiet electric drive, the very sensitive Navy submarine data, is on that disk.
28:50And a few days later, Ty calls his brother Chi Mack and says, brother, I'm going to China.
28:55Hi, I'm from Hong Kong.
28:58To Hong Kong.
29:01To Hong Kong.
29:03To Hong Kong.
29:04To Hong Kong.
29:05That's what was the final straw to say we had to arrest now.
29:09To complete the charge of espionage, we have to show the complete cycle.
29:16That you've stolen it, and then you've transferred it to a foreign power.
29:19By watching Ty take the information and go through security, we're able to complete that charge.
29:24That he is now committing espionage because he's flying to China in order to give it away.
29:29The operation to arrest Ty Mack and his wife at Los Angeles International Airport was extremely complicated.
29:35It's not just taking down one person in one place.
29:37We had to do multiple arrests simultaneously.
29:41We were going to have to make sure we knew where Chi and Rebecca were.
29:44Follow Billy, Ty, Fook, all at the same time.
29:53Prior to the arrest of Ty and Fook at the airport, we were doing heavy surveillance of them as they approached the airport.
29:58Billy drove them, dropped them off, and left.
30:00As they were at the airline counter, we had an outer ring of surveillance personnel who noticed an Asian male standing on the sidewalk at LAX outside, filming them through the window.
30:18He's at an airport, and he's videotaping people in line in front of him.
30:21We told that unit to stay on that unidentified man, and the inside unit would stay on Fook and Ty.
30:37They followed him through security, and then made the arrest.
30:55And that went very, very smoothly, very quiet, not like TV, no guns fired, but a very, you know, very, very quiet arrest.
31:05What was interesting is that man watched the arrest, sat down, and started using his phone.
31:11And he looked bewildered. He looked completely confused.
31:15And during that time, we were able to go through his telephone and learn more about him.
31:18His name is Mr. Luo. He had five telephones on him, and he was texting people in China about his progress.
31:26This was frosting on the cake for us.
31:28We didn't realize that they would have surveillance personnel watching their own people for signs of compromise.
31:36And it also confirmed the importance of this delivery to China that they would have somebody watching it.
31:41At the airport, we searched the bag of Ty and Fook Lee, his wife.
31:52In the piece of luggage, they had a small book titled How to Speak American English.
31:57And in it, it had two out of three CDs.
31:59And they're the type of discs you'd learn to speak English.
32:01You'd put it in your computer, you'd spit out words, you'd talk back to it.
32:05And instead of having the third disc, they had the disc that they copied and encrypted.
32:10It sounded pretty ingenious, if you think about it.
32:12Any inspector would open the book up, look at it quickly, see the two discs, and move ahead.
32:20When Ty Mac and Fookong Lee entered through security at the right moment,
32:25all of the elements were in place to take them down,
32:27all coordinated at the same time with the exact moment of the arrest of Chi Mac and Rebecca at their house.
32:34It was about 1130 at night.
32:39We showed them the search warrant and the arrest warrant.
32:41We told them what they were under arrest for.
32:44And we transported them to the FBI office to be processed.
32:48After following someone around for two years and getting to know them without ever speaking to them,
32:56it makes the first conversation quite an awkward one.
33:01Jim Gaylord and Gunnar Newquist would finally hear from Chi Mac, his own mouth, what his story was.
33:09I don't care if you believe or not believe. I just have a fact, that's all.
33:12Okay. Give me an explanation for why those two lists were in your trash and where they came from.
33:21This one was...
33:21Okay, not a long one, just who belongs to these lists, where do they come from?
33:28When Jim asked him the question about the list, he was shocked by it,
33:31so he started muttering whatever he could think of to deflect from us.
33:35A great moment is when he reads that tasking list and he grabs for a cup of tea
33:41that has been empty for 40 minutes and he sucks it to his mouth
33:44just to give him more time to think about what his answer was going to be.
33:53I pulled this out of your trash and I put it together.
34:00This came out of your trash.
34:02Don't ask me like it didn't.
34:07Yes.
34:08Because I saw it. I did it.
34:10It's not... I never trashed anything.
34:13Probably...
34:13You tore up this note
34:15so people would just see a lot of gibberish
34:19and wouldn't mind paying attention,
34:21but since I know what I'm looking for,
34:23I know what you're doing,
34:24we piece this together
34:26and we see instructions to you
34:28about how to do things
34:30from those people that you're helping back in China.
34:35You put it on a CD,
34:36it goes back to them.
34:37Hard to explain
34:38how you would have such a list in your trash
34:41and then it'd be typed in Chinese.
34:44Well, of course, I can write something Chinese.
34:47That's deep.
34:47I can do it now.
34:49That's a typed Chinese script.
34:51You do not have that on your computer.
34:53No, I don't have it.
34:54So where did it come from?
34:56Very hard for Chi to explain.
34:59We thought we had him.
35:00We really thought he was going to turn
35:02and talk to us at that point,
35:04but he didn't.
35:05He dug his feet in
35:06and it was frustrating.
35:08It was frustrating
35:08because we knew that he knew we had him.
35:13We all knew that he was lying
35:14and he just refused to open up.
35:22When I interviewed Chi Mac for the second time
35:25with Omar Lopez, another NCIS agent,
35:29I'll never forget walking into the jail
35:31and Chi waved at me.
35:34Very unusual to see Chi Mac waving.
35:36And I really thought that
35:37the way our interview had ended
35:38the two evenings earlier,
35:40that he would never want to talk to me again.
35:42But that day, he waved and he wanted to talk.
35:44So we brought him in
35:45and we didn't really have a great plan
35:47for how we wanted to talk to Chi.
35:49We just started talking to him
35:50about the Navy and his technology
35:52and we built rapport.
35:54Chi Mac wanted to be
35:56the smartest man in the room.
35:58It was realized that Chi Mac
36:00wanted to be the professor.
36:02And so we, therefore,
36:04had to put ourselves into a position
36:06of being the student
36:07in order to get Chi Mac to open up.
36:10For Chi Mac,
36:11ego was the key to opening him up.
36:14When we flattered him about the work he did,
36:17he wanted to talk more about it.
36:18And as he talked more about it,
36:20we talked about the significance
36:21it would have to China.
36:24And we asked,
36:25did you do it to help the Chinese?
36:27He said, absolutely.
36:28And then my response was,
36:30but wouldn't that also hurt
36:32the United States Navy?
36:34And he eventually came around and said,
36:36I guess you're right.
36:36I can't help China
36:38with not hurting the United States Navy.
36:44How come that conversation
36:46wasn't recorded?
36:49Well, a lot of different reasons.
36:51The first reason was
36:53we were doing it
36:55at the Santa Ana prison.
36:58And when we went over there,
36:59we never expected him to talk.
37:01And it was not NCIS policy
37:03to record all of our interviews.
37:05And it just wasn't
37:06our method of operation.
37:08When Chi Mac finally confessed to me
37:10that he'd been passing
37:11sensitive information to China,
37:13part of me was delighted.
37:15This was a breakthrough.
37:16This is something we'd been working at
37:17for a long period of time.
37:18And now he was telling me the truth.
37:19Part of me was angry.
37:22He was pissed
37:22because he was putting sailors
37:26into a really vulnerable position
37:29only to satisfy his own ego,
37:31only to get the gratification
37:34of talking to people
37:35about the work he had done.
37:37He had no regard
37:38for these sailors' safety and security.
37:41Once we made the arrest
37:43of Chi Mac and his family,
37:44then it was a waiting period.
37:45And it wasn't until a year and a half later
37:47that we went to trial.
37:48But we were going to dot every I
37:50and cross every T
37:51to make sure there were no gaps,
37:53nothing that could be taken advantage of
37:55to derail the case.
37:57Because then I'd feel guilt.
37:59Feel guilt for letting these people
38:00get away with what they did
38:01for decades.
38:07An American engineer
38:08who worked for a defense contractor
38:10is now on trial.
38:12He's accused of stealing critical
38:14U.S. Navy technology
38:16for the Chinese government.
38:17The trial went very smoothly
38:18from our end.
38:21We had excellent government witnesses
38:22as special matter experts,
38:25engineers as witnesses
38:26to what Chi Mac was doing.
38:28And of course,
38:29a lot of agents
38:30took the stand,
38:31including myself,
38:31to testify about what we'd seen
38:33and what we'd recovered.
38:34In the end,
38:40Chi Mac was convicted of every single charge
38:42that was brought against him.
38:44A victory today for federal prosecutors
38:47as a former defense industry engineer,
38:49Chi Mac was found guilty of conspiring
38:52to export U.S. defense technology
38:54to communist China.
38:55When Chi Mac was found guilty,
38:58all of the faith
39:02that we had to put into this investigation
39:04from the very beginning
39:05was finally justified,
39:08finally paid off.
39:09The conviction of Chi Mac
39:11on all charges
39:12by a jury of his peers
39:14was extremely satisfying to me.
39:16It was a huge win
39:18for the whole intelligence branch.
39:20Once the decision had come out
39:21that Chi was guilty of the charges,
39:25the rest of the family
39:26came in on a plea deal.
39:28The Mac family
39:29was all charged together.
39:32All pled guilty
39:33to agent of a foreign government,
39:37international traffic
39:37and arms regulations,
39:40conspiracy,
39:41false official statements.
39:45Chi Mac is currently serving
39:47a 24-plus year sentence in prison.
39:51The rest of the family
39:56had served out their sentence
39:57and had been deported to China.
40:00Chi got a just sentence
40:02and we learned a great deal
40:03about the Chinese methods of operation.
40:05The Mac case really demonstrates
40:06how the Chinese used family
40:08to commit espionage.
40:10In a family,
40:11you can trust one another.
40:12You know who they are.
40:13It allows them to have
40:14natural relationships.
40:15But the results of our investigation
40:17is we caught a family
40:18who was committing espionage.
40:19We caught a family of spies.
40:21This ended up being
40:27a milestone case.
40:28It showed that we could
40:29convict people
40:30on these sorts of charges.
40:32And since then,
40:33across the country,
40:34we've been able to successfully
40:35charge and prosecute people
40:37for espionage
40:38and espionage-type crimes.
40:40Chi-Mac stole sensitive Navy information
40:45and gave it to the Chinese government
40:47for over a decade.
40:48The technology
40:49that Chi-Mac gave China
40:52significantly reduces the gap,
40:55the technological gap,
40:57between the United States Navy
40:59and the Chinese Navy.
41:00A minor incident
41:03could spark a war,
41:05the words of China's naval commander
41:07quoted in state media on Friday
41:09after top-level talks
41:10with the U.S.
41:11over the South China Sea.
41:13Beijing sounding off
41:14a warning to Washington
41:15after a U.S. warship
41:16sailed close to man-made islands
41:18claimed by Beijing this week.
41:20With only 55 vessels
41:22in Washington's
41:23Western Pacific fleet,
41:24U.S. ships in the region
41:26are outnumbered
41:26more than 5 to 1 by China.
41:29For now,
41:29both sides have agreed
41:30to follow guidelines
41:31to avoid clashes.
41:33But beneath the diplomacy,
41:34tensions are simmering.
41:36I'm certain that there are
41:37many other people like Chi-Mac
41:39in the United States
41:40working on behalf of China.
41:42Absolutely.
41:43There are people in this country
41:45who are gathering
41:46defense information
41:47to take back home
41:48to help their countries
41:50develop their own edge
41:52to compete in the United States.
41:56Yes.
41:57There are a lot of people out there
41:58working on behalf of China.
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